'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Discuss what you think really happened in New York on 9/11/2001

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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu May 01, 2008 3:16 am

johnlear wrote:
You Can Call Me Ray wrote:1) There has been precisely ZERO operational certifications of CAT IIIc automatic landing capability.


That statement is false. TWA was the first airline certificated operationally with a Lockheed L-1011 to operate Categroy 3c.


That may, or may not, be true. What is true is you cannot prove it for there is no longer a TWA and there are no longer any CAT IIIc certificated operators. Anywhere. The reason is because the IIIc airworthiness certification didn't last long, as the FAA realized the mistake they made. As I explained, this was the genesis for AFS-410 getting into the business of providing guidance for how/when FSDO's could operationally approve operator's low minima programs. Moreover, the AC 120-28 was changed in short order along with operational low minima guidance. I managed the FedEx A300-600/A310-200 lower minima program, and it took us over a year of VFR autoland operations with CAT II minima and statistics to even get the FSDO and AFS-410 to allow us to proceed to IIIa status. For you to think that the L1011 was actually capable of operating in CAT IIIc would serve to show the difference between a pilot and an engineer.

CAT IIIc in 1970 terminated in a dead stop on centerline. CAT IIIc did not include taxiing to the gate.


And that was precisely the FAA's mistake. Tell me: How many CAT IIIc operational landings did TWA perform in 0/0 weather and how did they get to the gate from the end of the runway? This IS the reason no one is certificated to CAT IIIc since the mid 70s.

And at the risk of repeating myself you don't know what you are talking about. TWA was the first airline in the US to be operationally certificated for fully automatic landing and rollout to Category 3c standards.


And it was erroneously awarded, if it was awarded it all, for it could not meet the requirements for operating in 0/0 once stopped on the runway.

I pointed out the DC-10 because that was the airplane in competition with the L-1011. The Doulgas DC-10 never went to Category 3c because their engineering staff made a gigantic mistake. Unlike Lockheed. Lockheed went to Lear-Siegler and said, "We are going to build an airplane and we want to make sure it meets Category 3c standards." I believe it was the pitch limits on the go-around that made the Douglas DC-10 ineligible for 3c. Because of the way the L-1011 used spoilers to control descent rate instead of pitch they were able to comply with the pitch limits for certification.


Now you are the one who is wrong. It was not at all related to pitch limits, for even the DC-10 had direct lift control (which was subsequently deactived for it did not provide the benefits that it promised). The reason was because the DC-10 design did not attempt to incorporate a fail-operational rollout control system which is required for CAT IIIc. While it had dual autopilots, once you deceled below VMCG you were left with a single-string nosewheel steering control valve. Hence, it was only fail-passive.

In fact, the first airports with transmissiometers that could support CAT IIIb RVR determination did not show up until the late 80s.


Your statement that RVR transmissometers didn't show up until the late 80's is wrong. RVR was available and used in the 1960's.


I admit my wording was clumsy. Let me clarify. Airports did not incorporate the required NUMBER of transmissiometers necessary to distinguish RVRs lower than 700 until the late 80s. Yes, transmissiometer tech was around, but no one was willing to make the upgrades required to support IIIc, much less IIIb. And beyond that there were other airport infrastructure requirements, such as touchdown zone markings and additional taxiway centerline lighting that was also required to support IIIb or better.

And when you say 'we' made a lot of improvements on the DC-10 what improvements did you yourself make and who were you working for?


I worked for McDonnell-Douglas in the autoflight design group from 88 thru 93 when I moved on to FedEx. My improvements were several, including removing the dependence of align performance on pilot-entered ILS course by simply using the magnetic track angle when tracking the LOC prior to align. Tail strike protection and pre-flare stabilizer nose-up bias to ensure "super fail passive" flare were also my design items. Oh yes, and there was also my work integrating the MD-11 autoflight system into the DC-10, now called the MD-10.

What I need you to do Ray is call up one of your engineering friends, probably somebody who is older than you and ask who the first airline in the United States was to be certificated for the operational use of Category 3c in a Lockheed L-1011.


As I say, you may be simply accentuating a technicality here. Could be true but also may not. The larger point was that the FAA quickly realized the error they made. In other words you could hardly call it a "valid" operational certification...a bit like a marriage being annulled. The fact is that once that operational certification was revoked, and to this day, there are no IIIc airworthiness nor operational certifications because the FAA will not approve anything below 300 RVR (which is IIIb). As noted in FAA Notice N8000.340:

http://rgl.faa.gov/regulatory_and_guida ... 00_340.pdf

F. CAT IIIc Operations. CAT IIIc is an approach and operation landing without a DH and without RVR limitations (zero-zero). CAT IIIc operations are not currently authorized.

and

(4) RVR 300 Level. The RVR 300 level is the lowest minimum that can be currently authorized (2005) for operations by U.S. operators at any airport. This limitation is due to major limitations associated with the ground movement of aircraft and vehicles and the provision of timely crash, fire, and rescue facilities and services when operating in seeing-conditions less than those equivalent to RVR 300. Operations below RVR 300 are not foreseen until all of these limitations are resolved.
(5) RVR 150 Level. These operations are not foreseen in the near future.
(6) Operations at this level are not foreseen until the aircraft and essential ground vehicles can be reliably maneuvered on the airport


Now, do you wish to continue to live in the past and argue a technicality? Or are you willing to admit that any IIIc certification was an error, not in the interest of public safety, and rightly revoked because of the potential for operational hazards from its use?

Ray
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby Chorlton » Thu May 01, 2008 9:26 am

johnlear wrote:
Zep Tepi wrote:Erm, yeah. Good luck with that...

Just out of morbid curiosity, what do you think happened to the twin towers on 9/11?

Cheers,
Steve



The World Trade Center buildings were initially hit with controlled demo to make it look like airplanes crashed into it. These were the "Wile E. Coyote" cutouts of alleged planes. About an hour later both towers were destroyed with Direct Energy Weapons from an orbiting platform in space. See Zorgon's website for an update on 'Space Weapons - The State of the Art."
The DEW's used molecular disassociation technology which is why so little of the concrete was left and what concrete dust was left was less than 80 microns in diameter. The steel girders themselves were thermited into 30 foot sections so they could easily fit onto Rudy's trucks. The reason that the earth below the basement of the WTC was molten for such a long time was because of the intense heat generated by the DEW.


John............JOHN !! Ive cracked it I KNOW how it was done.
It was the Vogon Constructor Fleet, starting the US section of the demolition of Earth for the the planned development of the outlying regions of the western spiral arm of the galaxy requiring the building of a hyperspace express route through our star system. It was interrupted by a session of Vogon Poetry and when someone mistakenly hit the Infinite Improbability drive the Vogon ship instantly dissapeared to another point in the Galaxy.

The Infinite Improbability drive
The Infinite Improbability Drive is a wonderful new method of crossing interstellar distances in a few seconds; without all that tedious mucking about in hyperspace. As the Improbability Drive reaches infinite improbability, it passes through every conceivable point in every conceivable universe almost simultaneously. In other words, you're never sure where you'll end up or even what species you'll be when you get there. It's therefore important to dress accordingly. The Infinite Improbability Drive was invented following research into finite improbability which was often used to break the ice at parties by making all the molecules in the hostess' undergarments leap one foot simultaneously to the left in accordance with the theory of indeterminacy. Many respectable physicists said they weren't going to stand for that sort of thing, partly because it was a debasement of science, but mostly because they didn't get invited to those sort of parties.

You see John its quite simle really. If you can come up with ridiculous scenarios, so can I.
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby Zep Tepi » Thu May 01, 2008 6:29 pm

johnlear wrote:
Zep Tepi wrote:
By "get what you deserve" I meant "nothing".


Then you obviously don't know what Rule 11 is for.

Steve, Rule 11 of the Rules of Civil Procedure is titled Signing of Pleadings, Motions and Other Papers; Representations to Court; Sanctions. Briefly the rule provides for very serious sanctions if the allegations made cannot be supported. So if you had read the Qui Tam Complaint you would know that the allegations include DEW's and no planes. The point here is you say you hope we get what we 'deserve'. And then you say you mean 'nothing'.

In your wildest imagination do you think we would go into court thinking we couldn't prove every single allegation and risk the Court sanctioning us (c)(1)(A) with "reasonable expenses and attorney's fees incurred in opposing the motion to 23 different companies.

You need to get out more Steve. You haven't thought this through.


Actually, yes I DO believe in my wildest dreams that people like yourself will do exactly that. You appear quite incapable of seperating fantasy from fact, so why would I expect anything different?

Zep Tepi wrote:
johnlear wrote:Seriously, I can't think of any other reaction than shock. Are you being serious?


Steve, I asked the question and I would respectfully request an answer: where do you think the engines are?
Come on now, I have asked it twice. :)


I first had to ascertain whether or not you were being sarcastic, what with the answer being as obvious as the nose on your face and all that.

I would guess that at least three of the engines ended up in the core of the respective towers they smashed into. Last time I checked, the cores were considerably stronger than an engine weighing a few tons. Were these engines of a completely different design to other jet engines in the world? I also can't work out why you would think they were capable of withstanding tens of thousands of tons of debris falling on them in the subsequent collapse?

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby Chorlton » Fri May 02, 2008 8:38 am

A lot of aircraft parts and plane debris is shown here

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aircraftpartsnyc911
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby Access Denied » Sat May 03, 2008 9:51 pm

Chorlton wrote:A lot of aircraft parts and plane debris is shown here

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aircraftpartsnyc911

I don't get it, if you want to blame the government why not blame it on a massive Intelligence failure, poor Security practices, and ineffective Political policies… you know, like everybody else does? :)

Never mind the pissed off religious fanatics who have nothing better to do and would like nothing less than to see every last one of us dead…
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby zplix » Tue May 06, 2008 10:48 pm

The 9/11 Truth Movement, Free Energy Suppression,, and the Global Elite’s Agenda
http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=3930


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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby Access Denied » Sat May 10, 2008 3:39 pm

zplix, you know the drill here, you need to summarize the material for a posted a link in your own words if you want to use it to support your position otherwise it just looks like spam and we don’t like spammers ;)
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby zplix » Sun May 11, 2008 3:16 pm

Access Denied wrote:zplix, you know the drill here, you need to summarize the material for a posted a link in your own words if you want to use it to support your position otherwise it just looks like spam and we don’t like spammers ;)


But it is a LINK with lots of info there. It is NOT spam. spam is some disconnected ad like errrm 'Boobgirl wants to get to know ya big boy email me!'...THAT is spam?

what you mean is you dont want to explore the truth. Otherwise you would be intrigued to checkout my link, do the simple process of copy and paste parts you disagree with and we discuss. FAr less fuss than your makin out
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm

[ignore mode temporarily disengaged]

zplix wrote:what you mean is you dont want to explore the truth. Otherwise you would be intrigued to checkout my link, do the simple process of copy and paste parts you disagree with and we discuss. FAr less fuss than your makin out


yes. So if it is not such a big fuss, then why don't YOU cut and paste the parts that you actually believe support your point...and even stating your point before the cut and pastes would be nice! I have never seen a more obvious statement of hypocrisy than what you have done right here.

I consider what you are doing spam by just pasting a link with no discussion whatsoever.

[ignore mode re-engaged]

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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby Access Denied » Sun May 11, 2008 4:42 pm

Thank you Ray. :)

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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sun May 11, 2008 5:06 pm

And BTW, I did read most of what was at that link. Complete and utter baloney. It even goes so far as to claim that conspiracy theorists are part of a bigger conspiracy. Can anyone say endless regression? What they (the folks who wrote that) are not telling you is that THEY are part of an even bigger conspiracy...one to rob you of your critical thinking skills.

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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby zplix » Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:And BTW, I did read most of what was at that link. Complete and utter baloney. It even goes so far as to claim that conspiracy theorists are part of a bigger conspiracy. Can anyone say endless regression? What they (the folks who wrote that) are not telling you is that THEY are part of an even bigger conspiracy...one to rob you of your critical thinking skills.

Ray


"critical thinking skills."?

hmmm I see. so. your lazy finger managed to click the link open and READ what was there--which isn't spam. Well DONE!

And are critical thinking skills what your demonstrating as some kind of role model, examples:

'complete and utter baloney"?

You see, your arrogance--which obstructs ANY authentic task as to what this site is supposedly encouraging - 'uncovering reality -- fails to even understand the tactics that the power weilders play which is infiltration of movements within movements. [-o<
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon May 12, 2008 8:50 pm

nutjob who takes too many psychedelic substances?

I'm searching for your "flavor of the month"...
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby Access Denied » Tue May 13, 2008 2:36 am

Well that turned out to be an intelligent discussion. I think Steve mentioned earlier he’s not sure why we still have a 9/11 forum as he feels any questions he may have had have already been answered. I know BAUT no longer entertains 9/11 conspiracies as it’s basically an insult to the thousands of innocent people (and heroes) who died that day and their families… something only a terrorist or degenerate personality would take pleasure in doing.

What do you all think?
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Re: 'WTC Destruction and the Hutchison Effect'

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue May 13, 2008 3:30 am

Access Denied wrote: something only a terrorist or degenerate personality would take pleasure in doing.


Uh, yeah, exactly! And it is very interesting that I was thinking about this very issue! I have a conspiracy theory of my own! Here it is:

There is a CONSPIRACY of fundamentalist (terrorist) Islamofascists to promote and promulgate 9/11 conspiracy theorys that try to get American people to believe their government did these things, rather than them, the terrorists! Perhaps that is the conspiracy, within the conspiracy, wrapped in yet another conspiracy! There is at least as much evidence for MY conspiracy theory as there is for any other one someone else preaches!!! =D>

What do you all think?


Whether we close this forum as leave it "read only" for posterity, or leave it open, does not matter to me. What matters to me is that if it does remain open that we continue to push the wacked out theorists to PROVE their assertions with evidence. Not suppositions or beliefs. My 2 cents.

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