Building 7

Discuss what you think really happened in New York on 9/11/2001

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Building 7

Postby Chorlton » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:18 am

Anyone (UK) see the BBC programme about Building 7 last night (Sunday).
Lots of theories thrown around but still the most logical being that the building simply collapsed due to weakening.
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Re: Building 7

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:18 am

Yes, I saw the programme too. Funniest moment for me was that Loose Change bloke completely losing it near the end. All in all, I thought it was well presented, but it could have done with being a little longer than an hour.
The truthers "experts" were a hoot, weren't they?

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Re: Building 7

Postby Chorlton » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:27 am

Yep the Loose change chappie really seemed to lose it, swearing his head off.

I think what the programme showed was how, depending on which way you think, things can be misinterpretted.
The evidence for bombs etc, was somewhat compelling, though the timeframe for the bombs is questionable, with that idiot saying they could have been planted when the building was constructed.

Likewise, the evidence for a simple collapse was also compelling, and for me the most probable, and thats what it all came down to. Probability
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Re: Building 7

Postby Mungodave » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:48 am

Pardon the intrusion..
I am in Aus and have not seen the program.

Was the above an accurate synopsis?

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Re: Building 7

Postby Chorlton » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:48 pm

Mungodave wrote:Pardon the intrusion..
I am in Aus and have not seen the program.
Was the above an accurate synopsis?
Cheers
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Well the program, IMHO, put over a good examination of both sides of the story and covered most conspiracy theories as well as common sense.
In my opinion it was the common sense approach that won out, i.e. the reason for the collapse was simply the steel being weakened by the heat, and they proved also that it could have been the caused by showing warped beams from fire from another building
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Re: Building 7

Postby Mungodave » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:58 am

I have always found it strange that when asked, probably more than 75% of my net friends in the US at that time,
had no idea a third building had fallen down.

I was awake for 36hours when that all occurred, and was watching it all unfold ( was approx 130am here in Aus)

I still have a problem that it fell into its own footprint as a result of seemingly small internal fires.

But thats just me.

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Re: Building 7

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:35 am

Mungodave wrote:
I still have a problem that it fell into its own footprint as a result of seemingly small internal fires.



See, that's the thing. The fires weren't small and they weren't just internal. There are a few threads in this section of the forum that talk about it, have a look around :)

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Re: Building 7

Postby DerekFlint » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:06 am

I am not sure what expertise the BBC producers claimed or sought after and interviewed, but Occam's razor would surely suggest 'same building owner, same method.'

(...and same demolition company, 3 for the price of 2.)
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Re: Building 7

Postby Nemo » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:01 am

The morning of 9/11, as soon as I heard that major fires had broken out in both buildings, my first thought, and what I told others was: when will these building collapse? It is a very simple fact that structural steel loses much of it's strength in bending, shear and compression at the temperatures of a normal fire. It was clear to me that the fuel source of this fire would also create a very high temperature fire. I also recalled having read in the 70's or 80's that the fire protection for the steel structure of these buildings was largely accomplished by gypsum board enclosures. This memory could be innaccurate but this was proably a code approved method at the time and lightness was very important in the design of this building. I also recalled having read at the same time that the floor structure was by lightweight steel joists or trusses and that the details of their support were unique. This played a role to in the collapse.

It was and is obvious to me that the towers collapsed due to sustained fire exposure and the removal of much of the fire protection in the collisions.

The other buildings were further weakened by falling pieces of the towers when they collapsed. I see no mystery here and didn't that morning. I cannot see how any conspiracy about the physical cause their collapse could be maintained.

This was also like a bundled tube building where the lateral support was provided by the exterior columns which were visible. To me, this has also explained the vertical pancaking. These exterior tubes did their job and kept the exterior of the building together and vertical and kept the collapsed material in the center....not that the building was designed for a collapse, for sustained fires or removal of it's fire proofing.

Other things to note: I clearly remember hearing all that spring and certainly that summer on Public Radio that Al Qaeda had planned an attack or attacks on the U.S. of major proportions. It was not known if this attack or attacks would occur here or overseas but that it would be clearly be directly against us. This was said to have been known due to intercepted chatter and then due to increased chatter over the summer.

Just before this, Bush and Rice attended a G12 summit in the Hague. The buildings then were protected by anti-aircraft missiles because it was feared that Al Qaeda would attack then with aircraft.

One of the most amazing and effective pieces of propaganda and public deception ever attempted was accomplished when Bush, Rice, Cheney, Rummy, and everybody all said immediately after 9/11 that nothing like this (a major terrorist attack against this country using aircraft) was ever conceived, imagined, planned for, etc. Over night the entire country became severely compromised Alzheimers patients who also remembered nothing of this and just went along with the identical word for word denials by every one within the administration. I tend to think that there was a conspiracy but one of idiocy, incompetence and lack of action. Supposedly just before 9/11 when Bush got a CIA briefing at his ranch titled "Al Qaeda Determined To Attack Within The U.S.", he told his CIA briefer "O.K. you've covered your ass, you can go home now". I suspect that since Bush knew about the Al Qaeda threat to us he may have privately assumed that Bin Laden probably would not do anything major while he, the son of a Bin Laden family business associate, was President. Ironically, and coincidentally, James Baker was at a Carlysle bsuiness meeting with a member of the Bin Laden family representing Bush senior on the morning of 9/11. This may have had something to do, however, with making sure all Bin laden family members and important Saudi persons got flown out of the country asap after 9/11.
It is also ironic, and coincidental that a guy who was head of the a mid east terrorist investigation team quit the FBI, perhaps because there was resistance by the Bush admin. to the investigation of terrorist groups who received Saudi funding and were thus prevented from fully investigating the Cole bombing. He predicted for years (and was ignored) that the twin towers would be attacked again. He was later killed there because as head of security for New York, that's where his office was.

One other thing. If you were sitting in a classroom and reading "My Pet Goat" to some adorable little kids and your chief of staff walked up to you and whispered in your ear "Sir, the nation is under attack"..........what would you do? I mean as an average Joe who doesn't know any more than we all do and who hasn't gotten weekly briefings often by the head of the CIA but who has lived just a little bit in this country. Say through the Cold War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, etc. Would you ask a question? Would you ask, let's say, just out of curiosity if nothing else....."Is it nuclear?"? Or maybe...I'm just spitballing here......."Do we know who did this or where?"? Would you excuse yourself and leave immediately, or would you just sit there and say, and ask, and do, absolutely nothing for a few minutes first (unless he just kept reading from "My Pet Goat")? This is a very serious question. This was a conspiracy of idiocy. [-o<
Last edited by Nemo on Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building 7

Postby ryguy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:20 pm

Ahh...someone watched Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9-11. Great documentary wasn't it?

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Re: Building 7

Postby Nemo » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:04 pm

Ahhhh....... I'd seen all of these things years before his movie was ever made.
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