McCain v Obama

Everything Political

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:51 pm

Thanks for providing evidence of that confirmation bias Ray was talking about.... lol!

What I actually said was this:
Me wrote:Wrt the mud-slinging and political bias of certain sites, I'm seeing just as much from Obama supporting sites as I am from the other side. FWIW, I think this Acorn thing is important because it is current news - and is certainly being ignored by the MSM.


You presumed I was talking about Obama's connections with Obama - I wasn't. I was referring to the ongoing investigation into Acorn because of alleged voter fraud. It is being ignored by the mainstream media and that is something I find odd to say the least.

You will note my first sentence didn't attack either candidate, yet you presumed I was having a go at Obama...

Cheers,
Steve
.
Image
User avatar
Zep Tepi
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:59 pm


Re: McCain v Obama

Postby ryguy » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:08 pm

Since the story is only being talked about by right-wing Republican pundit bloggers because of the connections they're attempting to draw between Acorn and Obama, it's not confirmation bias to infer that if you believe that particular political mud is deserving of MSM airtime, then you must agree with the whole premise that is being used to even talk about it...that is the Obama link. That's what Ray noted is what's being ignored by the MSM, and your response to that made it clear that you agreed.

Ray wrote:

Do you think Obama does not deserve to have all his skeletons pulled out of his closet? Because the silence of the media over this ACORN stuff is a bit worrying to me. Read further down in that article to see the tales:


You wrote:

FWIW, I think this Acorn thing is important because it is current news - and is certainly being ignored by the MSM.


I'm sure you can see how your description of "this Acorn thing" can easily be seen as a reference to Ray's comments in the post above it about the Obama "skeletons" regarding Acorn. If that's not what you were talking about, my apologies - but it certainly did seem pretty clear that's exactly what you were referring to.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:23 pm

ryguy wrote:I don't see them as skeletons. I see them as Republican pundits getting desperate and searching through as many of Obama's past affiliations as possible in order to somehow draw a connection between one of them and something unethical or questionable.


Wow, Ryan. Now it will be hard for you to argue that this is NOT your own bias showing...for clearly the DEMs do the same thing. I know you will try. But would you care to tell me how this photo is not in bad taste?

http://foxforum.files.wordpress.com/200 ... palin1.jpg

How would the liberal media howl if, for example, some picture showed Obama eating fried chicken or watermelon? Yet there will be no outcry about this photo, will there?

You keep sliding by my point, Ryan. Both parties do it. You want to pin all the blame on Repub operatives, then I am sure (using your own words) that "I'm confident enough in our readership to see the propaganda". I just don't view you as being fair in this matter, Ryan.

Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:26 pm

ryguy wrote:Since the story is only being talked about by right-wing Republican pundit bloggers because of the connections they're attempting to draw between Acorn and Obama, it's not confirmation bias to infer that if you believe that particular political mud is deserving of MSM airtime, then you must agree with the whole premise that is being used to even talk about it...that is the Obama link. That's what Ray noted is what's being ignored by the MSM, and your response to that made it clear that you agreed.

Ray wrote:

Do you think Obama does not deserve to have all his skeletons pulled out of his closet? Because the silence of the media over this ACORN stuff is a bit worrying to me. Read further down in that article to see the tales:


You wrote:

FWIW, I think this Acorn thing is important because it is current news - and is certainly being ignored by the MSM.


I'm sure you can see how your description of "this Acorn thing" can easily be seen as a reference to Ray's comments in the post above it about the Obama "skeletons" regarding Acorn. If that's not what you were talking about, my apologies - but it certainly did seem pretty clear that's exactly what you were referring to.


LOL...you even missed what I was pointing out!! ACORN is clearly a DEMOCRATIC-leaning organization. My whole gist here has been PARTY politics Ryan. Yes, Obama is the top dawg in the DEM party. But guess what? Both parties have operatives who attempt vote fraud. If you are denying the Dems and ACORN are doing it, then you are just in denial. So I guess it is OK for DEMs to whine about alleged Repub voter fraud because they didn't win the white house. But I guess you are saying it is NOT OK for Repubs to whine when there is clear voter fraud indications from the DEM operative side BEFORE THE ELECTION? Is that what you are saying? Sure sounds like it.

Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:31 pm

I do because we all remember all the media coverage of alleged vote fraud in 2000 and 2004. It was all over MSM. The fact that this instance is NOT is clear bias...whether or not anyone is trying to connect it to Obama, the absence of this coverage in the MSM tells us a lot about that media.

Admit it, Ryan. I know you won't, but I think it is obvious.
Ray

**EDIT*** Grrr...sorry Ray, once again I made the moronic mistake of clicking "edit" instead of "reply." Steve - is there a way we can make the "edit" button somewhere else??? lol...sorry Ray!! **/EDIT**
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby Zep Tepi » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:43 pm

ryguy wrote:Since the story is only being talked about by right-wing Republican pundit bloggers because of the connections they're attempting to draw between Acorn and Obama, it's not confirmation bias to infer that if you believe that particular political mud is deserving of MSM airtime, then you must agree with the whole premise that is being used to even talk about it...that is the Obama link. That's what Ray noted is what's being ignored by the MSM, and your response to that made it clear that you agreed.


My point was more to do with what happened at the last election -in particular what happened in Florida- and what is essentially happening now. It was a big story back then, yet doesn't get a mention now. The fact that it "is only being talked about by right-wing Republican pundit bloggers" is neither here or there, they haven't made the story up. While the fact they might be trying to taint Obama with the Acorn brush is not in dispute, the obvious implication here is not Obama's ties with Acorn, it is the Democratic party's ties with them which should be important. Defending Obama "to the max" is all well and good, but not when it is at the expense of the real issue.

I'm sure you can see how your description of "this Acorn thing" can easily be seen as a reference to Ray's comments in the post above it about the Obama "skeletons" regarding Acorn. If that's not what you were talking about, my apologies - but it certainly did seem pretty clear that's exactly what you were referring to.


Obama = Democratic Party, so yeah I was lol.

Cheers,
Steve
.
Image
User avatar
Zep Tepi
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby ryguy » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:49 pm

Further up at the top of this page you wrote:

Zep Tepi wrote:You will note my first sentence didn't attack either candidate, yet you presumed I was having a go at Obama...


Now this:

Zep Tepi wrote:
I'm sure you can see how your description of "this Acorn thing" can easily be seen as a reference to Ray's comments in the post above it about the Obama "skeletons" regarding Acorn. If that's not what you were talking about, my apologies - but it certainly did seem pretty clear that's exactly what you were referring to.


Obama = Democratic Party, so yeah I was lol.


Thank you. :)

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby ryguy » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:02 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I do because we all remember all the media coverage of alleged vote fraud in 2000 and 2004. It was all over MSM. The fact that this instance is NOT is clear bias...whether or not anyone is trying to connect it to Obama, the absence of this coverage in the MSM tells us a lot about that media.

Admit it, Ryan. I know you won't, but I think it is obvious.
Ray


What's obvious is the confirmation bias you refer to. Look - all I'm saying is that people on the far right and the far left are constantly complaining that the MSM isn't reporting what they believe is the most important news. There are a lot of current events involving either candidate that I feel should be in the MSM more, but it's not. However - both sides constantly scream that the MSM isn't being "fair" to their side...yet we've got the vote fraud of 2000 and 2004, and then the Clinton/Lewinski fiasco, which I'm sure you remember received significant MSM coverage.

All I'm saying to you here is the same thing I'd say to a Democrat who stands to the very "far left" and constantly screams that the MSM is biased for the Republican side because they're owned by corporations.

Guess what - the MSM does cover as much of both sides as possible, but they remain pretty much in the middle (except for Fox News....ROFL)...so they're not likely to be able to make the far left or the far right happy. But in this election they do seem to be covering most of the important issues that aren't simply political fodder...how do I judge that personally? I gauge whether or not I'm very pleased or I'm very ticked off at the coverage. If I'm not ticked off and I'm not really very pleased with it either - then they're doing a pretty good job at staying in the center. lol...

Now if we're going to talk about MSM coverage of U.S./World events...that's a whole other story. The first time Steve showed me what the rest of the world receives for news vs. what we (U.S. citizens) get on CNN and on our nightly news - the news that's oddly "left out" of our U.S. coverage is quite shocking. I hate to use the word "censorship"...but it's very hard not to.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:53 pm

ryguy wrote:Guess what - the MSM does cover as much of both sides as possible, but they remain pretty much in the middle (except for Fox News....ROFL


Do you laugh as much at the obvious liberal bias of NBC and/or CNN?

Honestly, Ryan, all you have done is completely ignore the points I have raised that show that not only is Obama just another pol in a suit, but any pol that is endoresed by either of these two parties is going to be the same way. That you would buy into that Obama is somehow different, somehow better, and not be willing to admit that you are accepting his campaign rhetoric and selectively ignoring things that clearly make him look like the pol he is confirms to me that you are biased.

In the area of Christian beliefs, esp. those of Catholic dogma, I give you some slack because it is awfully hard to prove/disprove some of those wild claims. In religion it always comes down to what you believe. But my own sense, as exhibited by your silence on any issues that question Obama's rhetoric or honesty, is that you are treating your selection for president as you treat your religion. You know what you believe, and you refuse to see evidence that would tell you otherwise. Both parties are "mobs" intent upon securing power. I know you feel guilty for casting a vote for George Bush. So now let's see how you feel about Obama in 3-4 years time.

Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby ryguy » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:04 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:...is that you are treating your selection for president as you treat your religion. You know what you believe, and you refuse to see evidence that would tell you otherwise. Both parties are "mobs" intent upon securing power. I know you feel guilty for casting a vote for George Bush. So now let's see how you feel about Obama in 3-4 years time.

Ray


The same could be said about you Ray. But the fact that you choose to bring religion into this conversation tells me that you're letting emotion get the best of you and are hoping to use a topic, and statements, that you hope will get under my skin. I'll leave it to AD or Zep to decide whether such a drastic departure from the thread topic is acceptible or appropriate - it's not my call.

But it's probably best that I don't respond to such comments, as my response would surely inflame those emotions further.

P.S. - my quip about Fox was tongue-in-cheek...I was griping about people calling news biased, and then I was calling Fox News biased...it was a joke using sardonic irony...hench the "ROFL" at the end...get it? (ha ha). *sigh*..nevermind.

Best,
-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:06 pm

And I know you will disparage the Wall Street Journal just like you did FOX, right Ryan?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1223940 ... 08_mostpop

Which brings us to Mr. Obama, who got his start as a Chicago "community organizer" at Acorn's side. In 1992 he led voter registration efforts as the director of Project Vote, which included Acorn. This past November, he lauded Acorn's leaders for being "smack dab in the middle" of that effort. Mr. Obama also served as a lawyer for Acorn in 1995, in a case against Illinois to increase access to the polls.

During his tenure on the board of Chicago's Woods Fund, that body funneled more than $200,000 to Acorn. More recently, the Obama campaign paid $832,000 to an Acorn affiliate. The campaign initially told the Federal Election Commission this money was for "staging, sound, lighting." It later admitted the cash was to get out the vote.


Caveat Emptor. Obama's "squeaky clean" image is part of the game. Yet he does have enough of a past to tarnish it, if you are willing to see things you may not want to see.

The Obama campaign is now distancing itself from Acorn, claiming Mr. Obama never organized with it and has nothing to do with illegal voter registration. Yet it's disingenuous to channel cash into an operation with a history of fraud and then claim you're shocked to discover reports of fraud. As with Rev. Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers, Mr. Obama was happy to associate with Acorn when it suited his purposes. But now that he's on the brink of the Presidency, he wants to disavow his ties.

The Justice Department needs to treat these fraud reports as something larger than a few local violators. The question is whether Acorn is systematically subverting U.S. election law -- on the taxpayer's dime.


How do you, as a taxpayer, feel Ryan about funding illegal activities by this organization? Again, I ask: Why does it appear "OK" for Dems to complain about voter fraud in a post-election environment, but you are willing to pass it off as "just politics" when clear evidence of voter fraud is exposed BEFORE an election?
Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby ryguy » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:57 pm

But guess what? Both parties have operatives who attempt vote fraud. If you are denying the Dems and ACORN are doing it, then you are just in denial.


Strawman. I never denied anyone was doing it - I denied that Republicans who have a much longer history of vote fraud (not just voter registration fraud) have any right to even open their mouths in this case. See the links at the bottom of this post for a few examples of Republican "ethics"...one of the cases was done by a GOP official (not even a affiliated group - an official himself) where he tried to stop Democratic voters from obtaining rides to the polls here in New Hampshire. All I've said and continue to say is that this is a case of the Pot calling the Kettle black.

So I guess it is OK for DEMs to whine about alleged Repub voter fraud because they didn't win the white house. But I guess you are saying it is NOT OK for Repubs to whine when there is clear voter fraud indications from the DEM operative side BEFORE THE ELECTION? Is that what you are saying? Sure sounds like it.
Ray


No, I'm saying it's not okay for them to attempt to find a case of voter fraud, and then through typical political "logic" attempt to draw an affiliation between that group and Obama - in order to smear Obama as his polls continue to rise. Hey...guess what...McCain is tied to Acorn too - have you seen that mentioned anywhere? Probably not. That gosh darn MSM media strikes again huh? haha... Ooooh...Obama served the org as their lawyer in one case, shoot the dog! What's that? McCain has connections to them too?

ACORN to McCain: Have You Lost That Loving Feeling?

Senator Allied with ACORN as Recently as 2006, Now Turns Cold Shoulder

October 13, 2008, Miami, FL - U.S. Senator John McCain's recent attacks on the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) are puzzling given his historic support for the organization and its efforts on behalf of immigrant Americans. As recently as February 20, 2006, Senator McCain was the keynote speaker at an ACORN-sponsored Immigration Rally in Miami, Florida at Miami Dade College – Wolfson Campus.


Senator McCain spoke at the rally attended by hundreds of ACORN members, most of whom were dressed in the red shirts typical of its members. Senator McCain's speech focused on the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act, a bipartisan, comprehensive reform bill, which McCain sponsored with Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA).

Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer of ACORN, said, "It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans. Maybe it is out of desperation that Senator McCain has forgotten that he was for ACORN before he was against ACORN; he was for immigration reform before he was against immigration reform; and he was a maverick before he became erratic. We were thrilled to partner with him to help reform the outdated immigration laws in this country, and were pleased to work closely with him on this issue."


Senator McCain and his campaign have recently launched a series of coordinated attacks on ACORN, the nation’s largest community organization of low-and moderate-income families.

Ms. Lewis went on to say that, "We are sure that the extremists he is trying to get into a froth will be even more excited to learn that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with ACORN, at an ACORN co-sponsored event, to promote immigration reform."


Hey...here's an idea. How about both sides quit trying to smear the other side and simply talk about the issues that face the nation?

One can dream....

-Ry


****links****

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe

From our friend, George Knapp's article:

An employee of a private voter registration firm alleges that his bosses trashed registration forms filled out by Democratic voters because they only wanted to sign up Republican voters.

The allegations have set off a political firestorm stretching from Las Vegas to Washington D.C., and beyond.


http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/interestg/amvotes101304pr.html

According to a report by KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, NV, former employees of “Voters Outreach of America,” also calling itself “America Votes” have witnessed the firm “rip up and trash registration forms signed by Democrats.”

The group, run by longtime Republican operative Nathan Sproul, has been exposed for its unethical and potentially illegal tactics in Oregon, Nevada, and West Virginia. It also reportedly has been active in Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Florida, under the names “America Votes”, “Project America Votes” and “Voters Outreach of America.”


http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13166132&BRD=1672&PAG=461&dept_id=33380&rfi=6

Students, who last month signed a petition that was being circulated on the Blue Bell campus to legalize marijuana for primarily medicinal purposes, now are finding out that they are registered Republicans.
"This is just very disheartening," said Plymouth resident Jennifer Fugo, a 24-year-old continuing education student who describes herself as a "victim of voter registration manipulation."


GOP Phone Jamming Scandal

When voting began Nov. 5, McGee's plan worked like a charm. For two crucial hours, an Idaho telecommunications firm tied up Democratic and union phone lines, bringing their get-out-the-vote plans to a halt. The effort helped John E. Sununu (R) win his Senate seat by 51 to 47 percent, a 19,151-vote margin.
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:04 am

ryguy wrote:No, I'm saying it's not okay for them to attempt to find a case of voter fraud, and then through typical political "logic" attempt to draw an affiliation between that group and Obama - in order to smear Obama as his polls continue to rise. Hey...guess what...McCain is tied to Acorn too - have you seen that mentioned anywhere? Probably not. That gosh darn MSM media strikes again huh? haha... Ooooh...Obama served the org as their lawyer in one case, shoot the dog! What's that? McCain has connections to them too?


Let me see if I can remember the exact words you used against me: "Did you bother to read the whole article, Ryan? No, clearly you didn't think that was necessary." Here, let me help you:

Which brings us to Mr. Obama, who got his start as a Chicago "community organizer" at Acorn's side. In 1992 he led voter registration efforts as the director of Project Vote, which included Acorn. This past November, he lauded Acorn's leaders for being "smack dab in the middle" of that effort. Mr. Obama also served as a lawyer for Acorn in 1995, in a case against Illinois to increase access to the polls.

During his tenure on the board of Chicago's Woods Fund, that body funneled more than $200,000 to Acorn. More recently, the Obama campaign paid $832,000 to an Acorn affiliate. The campaign initially told the Federal Election Commission this money was for "staging, sound, lighting." It later admitted the cash was to get out the vote.


This, once again, highlights the issue I have been pointing out to you.... and unforunately, unlike me, you cannot simply admit when you are wrong. I have pointed you to an entire website that has documented lies by Obama (did you bother to read those too?). All you have done is ignore anything that would have to make you admit that Obama is anything less than a "shining star who will save America." It is clear to me that this is how you view him. The Reality that ought to be Uncovered is that he is no different than any other pol who has sought the office of President from either of these two Parties. He lies, denies, and makes empty promises, just like the rest. You, however, do not seem to wish to face that. There is still the one you refused to touch where I presented the entire text of Anderson Cooper's interview with Obama, and he invoked his own confirmation bias to ignore Palin's governor experience. Why not go ahead and try admitting Obama is nothing more than your run-of-the-mill, lying, scheming pol... it can be quite liberating. Here, let me help you with another clear lie from Obama (the list of documented lies is now up to 155):

http://obamawtf.blogspot.com/2008/09/ob ... l-new.html

Obama claimed all new spending in his economic plan was self-funding; short by $3.5 Trillion says nonpartisan Tax Policy Center

Fact Check: 'Pay for Every Dime'? Not Quite
e ABC.com Source


Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said during Friday's presidential debate that he would "pay for every dime" of his spending. But according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, "without substantial cuts in government spending" Obama's plan"would substantially increase the national debt over the next ten years."

The Tax Policy Center has estimated that Obama's proposed tax policies would increase the debt by $3.5 trillion over ten years.


Now take a deep breath and as you exhale simply say "Obama is a liar, just like every other pol who wants your vote." :wink: I have watched you spin, and you even made the bold statement that you could probably "correct" all of those statements. Well have a go, Ryan! There are 155 confirmed lies in that list right now. I would love to see you "correct" (spin) all of them. LOL

Ray
The Universe is an Integrated System. Operational, Functional, and Physical.
User avatar
You Can Call Me Ray
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby torbjon » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:13 am

Just an observation from a sleep deprived bozo (which would be me)

Between Ray and Ry I gotta say that Ray seems to be the one taking in all of the data and changing his stance accordingly (from "lesser of two evils" to "they are all freeking evil") whereas Ry seems to be holding on tight to some preconceived ideas...

Again, just an observation through incredibly fuzzy eyeballs that very well may be completely wrong but I'm waiting for a file to render so I thought I'd toss that out there.

Carry on
twj
Expendable Guy. The show is no good without them.
User avatar
torbjon
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:08 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: McCain v Obama

Postby ryguy » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:02 pm

Ray - I suppose my mistake here is in attempting to defend Obama from the numerous points you've been making against him out of one side of your mouth, while out of the other side of your mouth you admit they are both dirty pols. Which of course is clever because by forcing someone to counter the one-sided bashing, gives you more ammunition to continue bashing one side in a disproportionate way.

So, let me at least say this - you are absolutely correct that they are both dirty pols. Unfortunately, these are the two shmucks we've got to choose from, and I've read too much about our nation's bloody history and what it took for us to have the vote to simply not vote. I can't do that, it goes against everything I believe in. So, stuck with a choice between these two, we're forced to choose the one who stinks less. I've read all of the charges against Obama (including all of the ones that you've repeated here over and over), as well as the many charges against McCain. For me it just comes down to the fact that one stinks far less than the other - McCain's voting pattern alone is enough to win my vote for Obama.

I should repeat, I've read your points thoroughly and acknowledge you're saying that these two are both dirty politicians. If I've ever said in this thread that they aren't, then I'm wrong and I apologize. You have certainly proven the point that Obama has hang-ups and issues - and yeah, he's no Messiah. But again, given a choice between the two, Obama is clearly the less stinky of two smelly politicians.

Torb - feel free to list the ideas you believe are "preconceived" and I'll provide the data to support them. It's pretty hard to defend against such a sweeping, blank statement.

Best,
-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

PreviousNext

Google

Return to Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron