Secret fundamentalism at the heart of American power

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Re: Secret fundamentalism at the heart of American power

Postby Chorlton » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:05 pm

ryguy wrote:I have to say it was one of the best novels I've ever read. Everything you've written above, Chorlton, about the "common man" is exactly how Steinbeck wrote - especially in this latest book written in his older years. He came to appreciate that the normal everyday man in the street, for the most part, have a sense of right and wrong - and a general kindness toward their fellow man. You hear a lot of negativity in the news that gives a different impression about people, in general - but I think it's an inaccurate reflection of the larger population.


I think one of the problems is what Ive said over and over again in many forums. You have to get out, travel and meet people.Many people these days ( a LOT of the under 40's) DO get out, but only to the Touristy areas.They need to go off the beaten track, meet REAL people, see the way they liveand talk about how they feel.
I was born at a time when people didnt lock their doors, you just walked into peoples houses, you trusted people. Those days are gone, however the majority of people are still good decent folk. At Beaulieu Autojumble last year my friend unknowingly dropped a roll of notes £400 from his pocket. A Belgian chap saw it and came running up and gave it back to him. Im drifting a bit. But your everyday bloke knows whats right and whats wrong. That was ably exhibitted a few years ago when GW visited London. Well over a million people came out to protest. When Margaret Thatcher imposed a truly foul Poll tax law, there was a riot on the streets of London. Same with the US, University riots etc.
I'm not convinced of the general populace as a whole, being ignorant. Simply because they dont scream and shout aout something doesnt mean they are unaware of what was going on.

As far as the discussion with Shawnna here - it's very difficult to explore fringe/new topics and ideas among strong skeptics and non-believers...and people who generally are doubtful about everything overall. It forces one to reflect more deeply on what evidence exists to support personal beliefs - and sometimes it can be extremely maddening and frustrating when people doubt things that are, sometimes, blatantly obvious. However - the nice thing about going through that "trial-by-fire" is that you come out on the other side of that trial with a set of beliefs about emergent and fringe topics that have survived the first round of attacks by skeptics. That is one thing that I think makes RU such a cool place.
Best,
-Ry

I will always listen to any new subject. However when something is selectively quoted out of context I am always suspicious. I've been listening to New World Order stories since the late 60's and I'm still here and am now tired of them. Like I said, theres always been elite cliques, and sometimes actions those cliques take do have repercusions on innocent peoples. Thats life. But most cliques are just there to line each others pockets, Hey if they prey a bit, somuch the better for them.
But the weird and twisted machinations with respect to East Timor that Shawna pointed out, I personally find disrespectfull to the East Timorians and Xanana Gusmao in particular. Nothing was going to start or stop a Civil War in East Timor, it could be seen coming from the day the Portugues waved bye bye, and nothing Shawnas little breakfast party did or didnt do was going to stop it. Did they profit from it? Maybe, but if they didnt then someone was going to. The Timorian had been after Independance for years, and everyone knew that once the Portuguese walked out, the big boys would be in with their guns.The UK sold Indonesia their Air trainer planes that they immediately converted to attack planes and the Yanks sold them their guns and bullets. So what?
You see the real point here is that East Timor was something close to my heart for many reasons. I dont know anything about Serpo or MJ12 or God knows what else. I keep myself away from those. But Timor and specifically East Timor are and have been of interest to me for many many years. (see another post somewhere about my Meetings with Gough Whitlam)

I dont think I was disrespectfull to Shawna, if she feels I was then I apologise as it wasnt intended. Ive been told I have as much tact as an air raid, but I always say what I think, I dont ferk around. :twisted:
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

My greatest wish, would be to own my own scrapyard.
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Re: Secret fundamentalism at the heart of American power

Postby Access Denied » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:33 am

Well Chorlton, I’m sorry to report Shawnna has now officially left the building without acknowledging your noble apology or thought-provoking commentary…

Why she to chose to ignore the points raised by somebody who HAS read the book and presumably isn’t ignorant for having done so by her own standard… never mind those from your own perspective which I thank you for sharing because damn it you made me think about mine… is beyond me. :roll:
Men go and come but Earth abides.
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Re: Secret fundamentalism at the heart of American power

Postby Chorlton » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:03 am

Well thats a shame. Simply because someone comes up against others who dont think their way is no reason to go off in a huff, (where can I buy a 'huff; and is it economical? RAY !!!!!! Make me a huff please :D )
I nearly did that on the Spirituality thread but pulled back.
I also think the idea of posting a teaser, or taking selective titbits from a book or article, totally out of context, then stating you cant post unless you read it all, is a bit dictatorial. Someone (as in my case) may know something about parts of the book, but the rest will go over their heads, so should they not comment on the bits they know about? If enough people posted on the bits they knew about then maybe another could put the Jigsaw together.

Books and articles are fine, but as everything in this world, should be read with utmost caution and digested always with an air of scepticism, along with the alarm bell of "is there another answer" or "Is this being done for money" or "Is there a contrariwise group for this lot".
I remember, in the 60's, reading Von Daniken's 'Chariots of the Gods' and his other books, and was quite convinced there was a world conspiracy. It took a while but the penny finally dropped, if VD had seen all this there surely must have been others who had seen those same things and come to different conclusions.
Experience, which comes with getting older or simply getting out and about, makes you look at things from totally different angles.
My sister is always saying "You really are a cynical miserable old bastard arent you, always seeing evil in good and sometimes vice versa." I think thats because I just look at things differently than her and some others. When someone does something or says something, I always ask myself "why, whats in it for them, or whats the motivation"

But as you have stated AD, for every group there is probably another group working against them. Like two blind men in a narrow alley, both trying to get past each other.

Shawna, chill out. No one is saying you are wrong with your ideas.
My comments were mainly aimed at the book or magazine segments you posted, not you.
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

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Re: Secret fundamentalism at the heart of American power

Postby ryguy » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:18 pm

Chorlton wrote:But as you have stated AD, for every group there is probably another group working against them. Like two blind men in a narrow alley, both trying to get past each other.


What a cool analogy...I like that.

-Ry
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"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

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