Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:10 pm

Access Denied wrote:What I’m saying is I believe it’s better than the alternative and people like Ryan who were acting in good faith are worth rescuing.


The problem is, there are many people who were acting in good faith and who are also worth rescuing who are not in jeapordy of losing their home. What I am getting at is this is not only a problem of people losing their homes (people who have the option to move into rental housing). There are also a great many people who have lost their retirement savings, and they were merely acting in "good faith", investing in the stock market as a means to prepare to take care of themselves in their retirement. These people do NOT have any sort of backup option similar to moving into rental housing that homeowners have.

If you claim that people acting in good faith who may lose their homes are worth rescuing, then I do believe you would have a hard time arguing that other people who have lost most, if not all, of their retirement savings are equally worth saving. No one is talking about lending them a hand, are they?

This is the problem when you allow people to take personal risks for their own betterment, but then when things go bad you socialize their losses... it is inevitably unfair. And the worst part is, it is unfair to the people who behaved in the most responsible ways. It is just as unfair as a tax system where the middle and upper income earners finance the bulk of tax spending, while lower income earners pay little, if any taxes, and some actually get money back.

No one is addressing the fact that tax revenues are also going to be massively lower in this economy. When business makes negative profits, they pay less taxes. When people lose their income, they pay less taxes. We just passed the largest spending bill ever, which even outstripped our ability to pay for it even if tax revenues remained at pre-recession levels. When will the shoe drop and massive tax increases hit those people "acting in good faith"? Additionally, we have a nasty habit of whenever we come out of a recession, no one wants to take care of the debts we rang-up trying to pry ourselves out of the recession. Wish I could ignore my prior debts once I start to get ahead of them.

The problem is, all of these arguments sound good, but they are doing nothing more than allowing ourselves to fool ourselves. Dems love to blame the Bush tax cuts after 9-11 for making this recession even worse. But what we are doing right now with all this spending is artificially (i.e. money we don't have) trying to prop up a severely ailing system. We are making the eventual problem much, much worse... and that problem will be passed down to our kids. Will they act just as irrepsponsibly as we have? And if they do, then that means their eventual "shaking out" recession will be even worse.

I am sick and tired of fiscal irresponsibility at ALL LEVELS. I act in "good faith" in all I do, because the only person I have faith in is myself and my abilities. Regardless of whether I am acting in "good faith", I can never expect nor depend upon anyone to bail me out. If every single person (and our bloated governments) acted in exactly this same way, things would have never gotten to this level nor would we have to push our problems off to the future generations.

At some point, everyone must and will pay the piper. Any and all "bailouts" are a sham. Sometimes we all need to fail (and sometimes fail severly) in order to build a better tomorrow.
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The Resentment is Very Real

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:08 am

The resentment for having to pay for other people's mistakes goes beyond party boundaries, I am afraid.

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/ ... r_obama-4/

Watch Out, Mr. President, Because We’re Mad As Hell!

Now some might claim that, because this appears on FOX, it is just more Repbulican bloviating. But the reality is that there are both Repubs and Dems who have played by the rules for so many years. And there are Repubs and Dems alike who are in that middle-class group of people who will get squeezed by NOT getting breaks that others receive.

Unfortunately, while ordinary folks were doing those right things, our politicians are doing all the wrong ones. To help deal with a spending crisis, President Obama and the Democrats give us a nearly $800 billion spending plan. And that’s been quickly followed by a housing plan, an auto plan and will probably be followed by another stimulus. How we’ll pay for it? Don’t ask, voters are told.

And if you live your life right, pay your bills and take care of your mortgage, all you might get is the mini-tax break of $400 per person. That’s about enough money for each of you to go to lunch once a week -– but only for a fast food lunch. At $7.69 a week, Obama’s “Making Work Pay” tax credit doesn’t make work pay very well.


Tell me about it! Because I "make too much money", not only will I get none of the $ help that people will get who are being foreclosed, but I did not get a penny from the "stimulus" last year, and I stand to not get a penny of the new $400 "stimulus" giveback....which would only translate to that $7.69 a week. This is not because I am "wealthy" at all. I am decidedly middle-class. But because I live in one of the highest cost-of-living areas of the country, the $70,000 income limit where stimulus paybacks begin to disappear cuts of MANY MANY people who are barely middle class here in Southern California. How fair is that? Because I did everything right such that I would not need a handout, then government is happy to not give me one... and use my tax dollars to reward others. And does anyone really think I, as a 45 year old single man, will get ANY benefit from the social security money that i have paid-in for so many years. It is essentially money pissed-away. My money.

It is transfer of wealth out of my pocket, and I don't like it a bit. And if you think "only the wealthy" are going to end up paying more taxes (A LOT MORE TAXES) you are just dreaming. I call people's attention back to my prediction that this would happen before the election. We even saw the "cutoff" for what is considered "wealthy" drift down from $400K down to the $200K and $100K range depending on whose election-season speech you heard (Richardson, Biden, or Obama himself).

The middle class is going to be the one to get squeezed for this. Always have, always will. And there are a lot of people like me who are sick to death of ALL POLITICIANS of BOTH PARTIES because they sit there with their perks, high salaries, excellent healthcare and retirement benefits. And meanwhile us middle class people who played by ALL the rules, and have taken care of ourselves and continue to do so.... we will pay for all the f*^k-ups so they don't have to "suffer".

More than 300 Senators and Representatives –- nearly all of them Democrats –- voted for the largest spending bill in history without ever reading the darn thing!

No wonder we’re angry. While most of us were doing the right thing, some others –- foolish homeowners, stupid bankers, house flippers, idiot politicians and more –- were taking their cues from the movie “Good Fellas” and robbing us blind.

Now we are supposed to bail them out.

So far we’ve dumped several trillion dollars into that bucket and we’re still bailing with no end in sight. No end to what it’s going to cost us, that is. There is an end in sight -– an end to our savings, our retirements, our jobs, our future, even our children’s future.

Who wouldn’t be angry?


It is a load of crap and amounts to nothing more than socialist theft.

Change came to Washington claiming bipartisanship and transparency. Obama lied on both. The bipartisan bill was rammed through with classic — and sleazy– Chicago-style politics. And how transparent is a process where even graduates of the Evelyn Wood speed reading course couldn’t have analyzed the bill?


Will the same level of "transparency and bipartisanship" be applied to ram thru a "mortgage bailout" bill too?

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Re: The Resentment is Very Real

Postby Access Denied » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:38 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:The resentment for having to pay for other people's mistakes goes beyond party boundaries, I am afraid.

Well Ray, for a moment I thought your post before this last one was genuine and there might be some points we agree on but then I saw this latest post of yours and realized it was going to be a waste of time to respond. I’m sorry but I’ve got better things to do then refuting the latest round of Limbaugh’s disingenuous “talking points” being regurgitated ad infinitum here and elsewhere… that’s an exercise best left to the student of political propaganda.

America will get through this no matter how badly you don’t want it to.

mavn wrote:AD - Perhaps you are right so please post evidence to support your statement.

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates: 1979 to 2005
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885 ... ml#1011537

Something’s not right if 33% of your income is going to taxes, even with state included.

Try these paycheck calculators…

http://calculators.aol.com/tools/aol/pa ... 2/tool.fcs [salary]
http://calculators.aol.com/tools/aol/pa ... 3/tool.fcs [hourly]

Also, you need to consider this…

Who Pays America's Tax Burden, and Who Gets the Most Government Spending?
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/2286.html

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41.
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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby ryguy » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:55 pm

You have to admit though - the Repubs have a propaganda machine (and a passionate and loyal almost-militant following) the likes of which even Al-Qaeida can't really compete with. All the pundits seem to read from the exact same playbook one day (almost like a central release was sent out that morning on what "talking points" to hit), and the next thing you know all of the "believers" are repeating those talking points on the airwaves and the Internet - it's quite a operation to see in action. For some reason when the Dems try to pull something like that off they end up tripping all over themselves...lol. One person says one thing, the other says another, and the opposition just uses both opposing statements against each other.

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Re: The Resentment is Very Real

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:00 pm

Access Denied wrote:Well Ray, for a moment I thought your post before this last one was genuine and there might be some points we agree on but then I saw this latest post of yours and realized it was going to be a waste of time to respond. I’m sorry but I’ve got better things to do then refuting the latest round of Limbaugh’s disingenuous “talking points” being regurgitated ad infinitum here and elsewhere… that’s an exercise best left to the student of political propaganda.


Well AD, I had expected something with a little more intellectual gusto from someone like you. Yes, I understand that it is always the easiest route to simply criticize the most vocal pundit for a segment of the American population. Much harder to address is why so many people pay attention to him. Did it ever occur to you that he is actually just reflecting how a large number of people feel, rather than putting words in their mouths? Even harder still is trying to negate or otherwise debunk the clear signs of socialist policies that are now upon us. Soon.... very soon if this administration can pull it off... your everyday exhalations of CO2 will be "polluting" the atmosphere. All per the plan set in place oh so long ago... ignore the science, the consensus is now running the show!

Even worse than having to admit that the reason people like Limbaugh have such a big following is because he reflects how many people feel, would be to have to recognize the political rhetoric spewed by the other side for what it is. I can't tell you how many articles I have seen on CNN over the past 2 weeks about "how will the stimulus plan help you" or the even more bold title over the weekend of "what areas of the stimulus package will help your bottom line". I laugh at these because there is absolutely NO BENEFIT to people in the $90K and above range. No matter how hard I looked, I could see NOTHING that is going to help that very large segment of the population that lives in high cost of living areas.

Despite the promises of "middle class tax relief" that we all heard during the campaign (and this researcher predicted as bunkum you would never see), it appears that now the "middle class" stops somwhere right around the $100K annual income amount. Again, as predicted.

America will get through this no matter how badly you don’t want it to.


Yes, I know... try to use the words of Limbaugh against me. But you know what? I know you will have a hard time believing this, but it is true: I do not now, nor have I ever listened to that hypocrite. My fiscal conservatism comes directly from my upbringing in Ohio (used to be a red state) and from my very middle class, working family. And I have been torqued at ALL the residents of the White House & Congress since Bush Sr. moved out. I know that you would rather ignore the great many people who actually DO hate all these bailouts for all the people who created this... "good faith" or not. I know you would rather just have "hope" in the new leader and pretend that he is really bringing "change", when all we see is more of the same political cronyism.

I let my predictions stand for themselves, even if people would rather not discuss them. I know you don't believe AGW, and would rather think it is a minor aberration in the great plan of the new narcissist-in-charge. But I am telling you that the whole global warming scam is the very foundation for the next big money grab. It is the means by which our politicians will ALLOW the UN to control our economy, and make it subservient to their wishes.

You read it here first. But I imagine that when it comes to pass, you will fling some more Limbaugh rhetoric at me instead of seeing it for what it is. Socialism coming to America.

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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:06 pm

ryguy wrote:You have to admit though - the Repubs have a propaganda machine (and a passionate and loyal almost-militant following) the likes of which even Al-Qaeida can't really compete with. All the pundits seem to read from the exact same playbook one day (almost like a central release was sent out that morning on what "talking points" to hit), and the next thing you know all of the "believers" are repeating those talking points on the airwaves and the Internet - it's quite a operation to see in action. For some reason when the Dems try to pull something like that off they end up tripping all over themselves...lol. One person says one thing, the other says another, and the opposition just uses both opposing statements against each other.


Interesting you point that out, Ryan, and especially since you use the word "believers". Because it sounds to me that you have pinpointed the very evidence that proves the Dems don't really believe the chit they spew. They all talk differently... just like Obama saying "$400K and above" and then Richardson saying "$200K and above" and then Biden taking the number down as low as "$120K and above". They really don't believe it... they are all lying and they know it. But when you truly believe in fiscal conservatism, it is very easy to keep the story straight, because you live it and breathe it every day of your life.

Now, whether the corrupt pols actually FOLLOW THRU on what they say is a different thing altogether. BOTH parties are equally bad at doing that, are equally corrupt, and therefore should not be believed that they will do what they say. I still maintain that the voters, and only the voters, should have a DIRECT MEANS to raise (or lower) the salary of anyone elected to serve in Congress. That would clean up some acts pretty damn quickly.

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The Market Votes

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:13 am

Ryan and AD:

You can make insinuations that my views are not "mainstream" and even insinuate that my predictions about Obama were wrong (even as they continue to come true). You can even deny that people are actually feeling the level of anger expressed by people like Rush Limbaugh. But what you cannot make go away with empty rhetoric is how the market is weighing-in on what is (or is not) being set out by the Obama administration. And right now the market is not showing a lot of confidence in what "big government" is doing or saying they are going to do.

But let's review another gimmick that happened today (as Obama was so fond of calling other people's ideas on the campaign trail). A three hour "fiscal responsibility summit"??? You have got to be kidding. If either of you are going to try and argue that this was a serious attempt, rather than just a publicity stunt to make people feel better about the trillion dollars of pork just passed, I am going to have to call BS on you.

As I tend to do, let me speak in terms all three of us understand: aircraft. You guys know that it can take an ENTIRE WEEK of meetings to cover an entire Critical Design Review for a complex airplane. Then we consider that the entirety of federal spending is orders of magnitude more complex than any airplane in its intricacies. Add to this that at least with an airplane we know what we need and how to get it, whereas in this case we are shooting in the dark. And then finally take a look at the LONG LONG list of organizations who feed at the federal trough of benefits that took part in this three hour publicity stunt. Clearly, there was absolutely no intention that anything real get done in 3 hours. All show, and no go.

THIS is the change everyone expected? More of the same...only worse! Does Obama actually think that make-nice events are what is going to convince people (esp. the stock market) that they are serious about this? And when the hell can we expect Geithner to reappear and try to give more details of his grand plan?

Ray's next prediction: When Dems start to see that their flailing and eternal spending is not helping, we can certainly expect they will then divorce themselves from the problem, complaining that "it was all Bush's fault...he dumped this economy on our laps." Mark my words...that rhetoric is coming within the end of this year. And of course the "true believer" Dems who bought into Obama's sales pitch will believe it... not ever willing to admit that it was BOTH PARTY'S impotence and lust for power that got us here.

Our government has failed us, and it continues to fail us. And I am getting more and more pissed every day.
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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby Access Denied » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:19 am

ryguy wrote:All the pundits seem to read from the exact same playbook one day (almost like a central release was sent out that morning on what "talking points" to hit), and the next thing you know all of the "believers" are repeating those talking points on the airwaves and the Internet - it's quite a operation to see in action.

Well, I was running late for work this morning and I just happened to catch Limbaugh during the first few minutes of his broadcast and he was already giving his marching orders for the response to Obama’s new budget plan to be announced during his first State of the Union address tomorrow. As I’m sure you’ve heard, Obama plans to reduce the deficit by half (a fiscally conservative move you won’t hear “conservatives” praise because Obama is a Democrat and Obama must fail lest they all look like partisan idiots) by the end of his first term, in part by allowing Bush’s tax cuts on those making over $250K to expire in 2011…

Get this, Limbaugh told his audience not to call it a tax increase for the rich… instead they’ve been instructed to refer to it as a tax increase for small businesses. Why? Because taxing the rich is popular with majority. Why? Because the majority aren’t rich.

How clever is that?

If you tell folks these “poor” small businesses won’t be able to hire anyone because their tax rate is being increased from 35% to 40% (a difference of only $12,500 on the low end) you’ll likely get a much different response…irrational anger in most cases it would appear. Never mind the fact that any business that actually nets (after expenses like paying for the employees they supposedly won’t be able to hire because of this) $250K is hardly “small”…

Remember “Joe the Plumber”?

You watch… the Republican “base” (social conservatives thinly disguised as fiscal conservatives) will all be talking about this tomorrow.

It’s the same play Bush tried to use in June of 2008…

Bush: 43M families hurt if tax cuts expire
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/02/news/ec ... 2008060218

President Bush on Monday called on lawmakers to make his 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent or risk what the White House has tagged "the largest tax increase in history."

[snip]

Small business impact

Supporters of the tax cuts contend that letting them expire - even if only for high-income taxpayers - can be detrimental to the economy.

"It turns out that 75% of taxpayers who benefited from the reduction of the top bracket were small business owners," Bush said, noting that small businesses pay taxes at individual income tax rates. "So when you hear 'tax the rich' you're really talking about taxing Mom and Pop businesses."

Williams said that it's true that the majority of taxpayers in the top income tax bracket (currently 35%) report business income, but those taxpayers don't represent the majority of small business owners.

According to a Tax Policy Center analysis, over 90% of small business owners report income that puts in them in the 26% tax bracket or below.

Many of the top-bracket taxpayers who report self-employment income get most of their income from salaries, investments and stock options, Williams said. Of those taxpayers, only 50% make more than half of their total income from their business, and 25% get less than a tenth of their income from their small business, he said.

Supporters of the tax cuts contend that allowing them to expire can have the adverse effect of reducing expected tax revenue for the government. Their argument: Americans would have less incentive to make more money and instead step up their efforts to avoid paying tax at all.

With the tax cuts in place, tax revenue made up 18.9% of gross domestic product last year, said Larry Lindsey, who headed the president's National Economic Council in 2001 and 2002, at a panel discussion in Washington, D.C., preceding Bush's remarks. "That's higher than all but 11 of the last 60 years.... The only cause of revenue growth ... is economic growth."

Right, because “trickle down” economics has been working so well for the economy lately…

ryguy wrote:For some reason when the Dems try to pull something like that off they end up tripping all over themselves...lol. One person says one thing, the other says another, and the opposition just uses both opposing statements against each other.

Yep, the Democrats never really seem to be sure exactly what they all stand for but it doesn’t seem to be hurting them too bad lately…

Gallup poll: Obama approval at 63%
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 05411.aspx

According to the latest Gallup poll, President Obama's approval rating is now at 63%, which is down five percentage points from his initial rating in January. Also, his disapproval number has doubled from 12% in January to 24% now.

But be careful if you're trying to draw a dramatic conclusion about this slight downward tick. The only group of voters that has moved away from Obama are Republicans, who went from 41% approval in January to 30% now. However, Democrats' approval has remained steady (88% then, 89% now). And -- perhaps most importantly -- so has approval among independents (63% then, 63% now).

So far it appears the only folks who’ve lost their “faith” in Obama probably never really had any in the first place… a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.

Who’s fooling who?
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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby Access Denied » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:30 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Well AD, I had expected something with a little more intellectual gusto from someone like you.

Sorry to disappoint you Ray but I just don’t find your arguments in this case that intellectually stimulating… :)

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Did it ever occur to you that he is actually just reflecting how a large number of people feel, rather than putting words in their mouths?

Yes, but I’ve listened him to long enough now to know that what he’s actually doing is telling people what they want hear… even if it’s not true. His weapon of choice is the logical fallacy and he freely admits the only reason he’s doing it is for the money…

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:No matter how hard I looked, I could see NOTHING that is going to help that very large segment of the population that lives in high cost of living areas.

Then I can only conclude you must not be looking hard enough or you’ve allowed folks like Limbaugh to cloud your judgment with so much hatred and bigotry that you can no longer see the forest for the trees.

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I know you will have a hard time believing this, but it is true: I do not now, nor have I ever listened to that hypocrite.

Then why are you using phrases he coined like “The Messiah” and “porkulus”?

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I know you would rather just have "hope" in the new leader and pretend that he is really bringing "change", when all we see is more of the same political cronyism.

Wrong, I believe it is YOU (and the “conservative” minority) who have put Obama on a pedestal…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I voted for him simply because he demonstrated to my own satisfaction that he was the better candidate (in terms of leadership potential) for the job.

My "hope" for "change" from Obama is documented in this post I made on June 28, 2008…

Access Denied wrote:Will he [Obama] be able to pay for ANY of his broad sweeping social programs? No.

Will he be able end to the war in Iraq? Not right away.

Will he be able to stop Global Warming? What global warming?

Will he be able to significantly raise taxes? Depends on how many Republicans get elected to Congress in lieu of a viable Republican presidential candidate. [hint]

Will he be able to change Washington in four years? Not much if at all.

Will he be able to change anything for the better? Maybe.

Can you please point out to me where I may have inadvertently set myself up for disappointment based on overly optimistic or unrealistic expectations?

Didn’t think so.

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Socialism coming to America.

Where have you been?

We’ve been living in a mixed economy for some time now…

And since when does welfare = socialism?
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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:14 pm

Access Denied wrote:
You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Did it ever occur to you that he is actually just reflecting how a large number of people feel, rather than putting words in their mouths?

Yes, but I’ve listened him to long enough now to know that what he’s actually doing is telling people what they want hear… even if it’s not true.


And this differs from Republican and Democratic politicians, how? (Especially Obama!)

His weapon of choice is the logical fallacy and he freely admits the only reason he’s doing it is for the money…


Right. And politicians wish you to believe they are doing things because they are in the best interest of the American people....not their own pursuit of money (and power). I'll take the guy who is being honest in his motives over the one who wants to fool you.

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I know you will have a hard time believing this, but it is true: I do not now, nor have I ever listened to that hypocrite.

Then why are you using phrases he coined like “The Messiah” and “porkulus”?


You honestly believe that two great minds cannot arrive at the same, accurate descriptors? For the record, I began using "Messiah" of my own volition, because I saw Obama being treated even better than a rock star... I did not start using it because I saw it or heard it anywhere else. As for "porkulus", oddly enough, I first saw that on CNN of all places. I guess they were not interested in attributing it to Limbaugh, if he was actually the one to coin the term. In either case, I think they are both most accurate descriptors. Except that Obama is not quite at the same level of "Messiahdom" now that the reality of the job has taken firm grasp. Now he is just another Dem in a suit who gives great speeches, and doesn't fulfill campaign promises, except those he made to his party machine outside the public spotlight.

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:I know you would rather just have "hope" in the new leader and pretend that he is really bringing "change", when all we see is more of the same political cronyism.

Wrong, I believe it is YOU (and the “conservative” minority) who have put Obama on a pedestal…


Hardly. Hell, even Hillary had it right during the primary season. In fact, I just read an article (again, on CNN of all places) that admitted that Hillary pretty much got it right back then about his "magic". Now she works for him, so even that tiny tad of honesty has been swept under the large Dem Party carpet.

I voted for him simply because he demonstrated to my own satisfaction that he was the better candidate (in terms of leadership potential) for the job.


And you ask where I have been? :lol: Sadly, there has been absolutely zero "better candidates for the job" coming out of either the Repub or the Dem party for many years now. Even Bush 42 was not a "better" candidate for the job. A choice between dog crap and cat piss is not much of a choice when you are hungry. But I know, you will claim that all we get is the choice from those two parties. And that is exactly the problem and the stranglehold these two corrupt parties have on our system of (alleged) self-governance.

It's totally effed-up, man. No one from either party can fix it. The only change you can really believe in must come from outside the problem zone.

My "hope" for "change" from Obama is documented in this post I made on June 28, 2008…

Access Denied wrote:Will he [Obama] be able to pay for ANY of his broad sweeping social programs? No.

Will he be able end to the war in Iraq? Not right away.

Will he be able to stop Global Warming? What global warming?

Will he be able to significantly raise taxes? Depends on how many Republicans get elected to Congress in lieu of a viable Republican presidential candidate. [hint]

Will he be able to change Washington in four years? Not much if at all.

Will he be able to change anything for the better? Maybe.

Can you please point out to me where I may have inadvertently set myself up for disappointment based on overly optimistic or unrealistic expectations?

Didn’t think so.


Fair enough.

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Socialism coming to America.

Where have you been?

We’ve been living in a mixed economy for some time now…

And since when does welfare = socialism?


When people abuse it, and then scream for more help when they make bad decisions (like having more children they cannot afford to raise properly). But yes, I agree we have been living in a "mixed economy" since right around the time Regan left office. What I am pointing to are the final death throes of an actual market-based economy (and please don't tell me recent history has shown it a "failure"), and political opportunism by Pelosi and crowd (with Obama as Bill Signer-in-Chief) to hypocritically call Republicans abusive spending "failed policies" and then turn right around and spend even more!

But hey...notice how no one is talking about or whining about Social Security anymore? The Parties That Be have successfully removed a big problem from the minds of Americans by supplanting it with one of the most massive problems their bumbling could have created. Nice jawb, to all of them on that count. Now we will likely all just accept the fact that SS will never be repaid, and it will be shut down and we will all take the losses... and the "solution" is just to be totally dependent upon government, and watch investors cut and run.

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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:22 pm

Access Denied wrote: As I’m sure you’ve heard, Obama plans to reduce the deficit by half (a fiscally conservative move you won’t hear “conservatives” praise because Obama is a Democrat and Obama must fail lest they all look like partisan idiots) by the end of his first term


Yeah! And by god if he did not dedicate an ENTIRE THREE HOURS to that publicity stunt! The reason you won't hear praise from conservatives is because they were balking heavily at all the pork (out-year spending) in the bill he just rammed through Congress in an oh-so-partisan way. Saying one thing, and then doing another, all in the space of 2 weeks time is the height of hypocrisy...even in DC.

Trying to cut the deficit in half is an admirable thing. The problem is: Can (or will) he actually do it? I maintain this publicity stunt is just political cover for the tax-raising that is to come. I really love the people who choose to recall Clinton by saying "he erased the budget deficit." Sure he did... once the Republican-controlled Congress passed the balanced-budget bill. He was FORCED to. Ah for those good ole days, eh? :)

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Fallacies of Democratic Leadership

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:30 pm

This is an interesting form of "logic"... In other posts here awhile back, I pointed out a news article from Glenn Beck that took stock of how many large cities have mostly been run by Democratic mayors, and the plight of the poor in those cities has never achieved what the Party says they want to achieve for their constituents. Well, here is an example of from a state that has, for the last several years, been a "bation of Democratic ideas"...Michigan.

One of my buddies who is equally incensed with the economic situation and political gamesmanship happens to own a house in Michigan, but his primary residence is in Chicago, IL. As a result, he does not qualify for the Michigan version of the "hometead exemption." The Michigan homestead exemption is pretty interesting...

http://www.flatrockmi.org/Nav/departmen ... tems_id=82

In 1994 a new law, Proposal A, was passed that greatly affected that way property taxes are calculated. Part of this affected the way local schools collect their operating taxes. This brought about the principal residence exemption on the tax payers’ primary residence (must occupy 6 months out of the year). This is not to be confused with the homestead that is part of your State of Michigan income tax return.

What this does for you, the tax payer, is exempts you from the school operating millage which is approximately 18 mils. This saves a house with a taxable value of $100,000 approximately $1,800 per year.


So check that out! People who actually LIVE in a local area are EXEMPTED from paying the local mill levy that FUNDS THE LOCAL SCHOOLS!!!! Who do they get to pay those taxes that fund local schools? Why, the people whose primary residence is SOMEWHERE ELSE!

And they wonder why their state is in such bad situation!
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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby ryguy » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:31 am

Man...this is the most interesting political discussion I've read in a while. I'm a bit biased toward AD's side of the argument, obviously, but Ray you're a tireless fighter, man...I admire that.

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Re: Obama Watch - Keeping an Eye on U.S. Leadership

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:06 am

ryguy wrote:Man...this is the most interesting political discussion I've read in a while. I'm a bit biased toward AD's side of the argument, obviously, but Ray you're a tireless fighter, man...I admire that.


Thanks, Ryan. And the only reason I am such a bulldog is because I have seen the fact that our government is absolutely broken, and we have both parties to blame for it. I am hopeful that someday all citizens will see that Obama is not changing DC, and that it is business as usual until the last dog is hung and the last dollar is pilfered from our pockets. Here is yet another example:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/24/s ... -congress/

Same ol’ pork barrel Congress


On the same day the President called on the government to undergo fiscal restraint, Congress unveiled a bill revealing where all those earmarks have been hiding.

The pork-laden omnibus catch-all, held over from last year, contains no less than 8,570 earmarks. The pork projects are still being deciphered by various watchdog groups, and republicans are railing at the fact that the congressional leadership seems to have violated its transparency rules by jamming these all in a last minute bill, but a quick view has me scratching my head in disbelief at both parties.

After two years of criticism aimed at pork barrel spending, the defiant members of Congress are unabashedly asking for more. Republicans and democrats alike are looking for taxpayer dollars for projects no one could call necessary.


The arrogance is astounding. By all rights this is the kind of nonsense that should invite immediate popular rebellion by the people to take our government back. DC is BROKEN! The only consolation is that DC is still not as "broken" as the UN...see my other post in my AGW thread for a real eye-opener.

This will not stop until Americans of all colors and beliefs realize that the Party they have been loyal to (pick either one) is nothing more than a crack addiction that has kept us from understanding that we are addicted to one bad government after another...just the way the Parties plan it!

I miss Torbjon... we had our disagreements, but this area was not one of them!
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Phases of Democracy

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:06 pm

Caveat: I realize there are many questions about the attribution of this "quote". I am not arguing any of that, as I am more interested in what the words say and how they seem to increasingly apply to our situation. This quote got a lot of airplay after the Bush/Gore 2000 election. I had a hard time seeing how it applied to that event, but it is hard to not see how it applies to our current situation and the absolute disregard for spending we have been on for a long time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Tytler#Quotation

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.


Notice I am NOT highlighting the "dictatorship". I currently do not think Obama will become a dictator; however, he certainly shares the same narcissistic tendencies that people pointed out in Bush 43. I mean, writing your autobiography even BEFORE you become a junior senator in Congress? Obviously he thinks he is important and people need to read his story.

The part that is hard to argue is what I have embolded above. We have a Congress that eternally has their hand in the money jar, taking, taking, and taking and giving to their constituent businesses...whether a solid need for their pork package exists or not. And it is also difficult to refute that loose fiscal policy (by both parties and a great many American people) was the sin that began sinking our ship. I can only hope the rest of this quote does not come to pass.

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