Trying to use Science to spin a political agenda!

[You Can Call Me Ray]

well maybe so. but at least i'm in good company don'tcha know..

Excellent:

Rand underwent surgery for lung cancer in 1974.
(Snip)
Rand died of heart failure on March 6, 1982 at her home in New York City

Good luck, Mr. Gorky!
Ray

[gunter]

And her age at death surpassed the average life expectancy of American women in 1982. So? It's a sad and little known fact that no-one escapes this planet alive, Mista Youcancallme.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Butt to get back on topic:

Toon is contributing to global warming, and he even has the power to curtail that contribution. However, he chooses to not take such action because it would cramp his lifestyle. Instead he will rail on others to clean up their act. Dialectic be damned...finally we see an area where Toon is a resolute absolutist!

Ray

[Chorlton]

Well one could say so am I Ray.
I could give up my 3 Litre Cobra for a Kia Picanto or something. Same as many many US companies could at least try to cut their emissions, but they dodge the issue by buying trees or forests or the like, instead of doing something Concrete. I have to pay extra for things in the UK now to pay for various companies to control their emissions.
As for China? bomb the place I say. I bluntly refuse, ar at lkeast try to refuse to buy anything Chinese.
I doubt Toons ciggies are comparable to Chinas ever increasing coal fired power stations?

[gunter]

Toon is contributing to global warming

Do you really believe smoking tobacco is a cause of global warming? Now you've got me really confused.

[Chorlton]

Toon is contributing to global warming

Do you really believe smoking tobacco is a cause of global warming? Now you've got me really confused.[/quote
No you arent because when you smoke you arent creating any more C02 than those leaves took in when they were growing.
You probably smell like an ashtray but thats a problem for your wife and kids
And the kittens, or have you stuffed them along with that monstrous black and white thing you had stuffed.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Well one could say so am I Ray.

As could I, and BTW I readily admit it. But at the same time I have pointed out that I walk the talk of environmental concern with my solar PV and natural gas car. What I am pointing out (no matter how much Toon wishes to avoid admitting it) is that he loves to rail on others, but then wants to completely ignore his own part... and a part that he could willingly cease to adhere to his own standards of not pissing in his own well or shitting in his own garden.

I shall now address a fallacy of yours that you mentioned earlier, as well as in your follow-up post...
Ray

[gunter]

Ray- you are insane.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Toon is contributing to global warming

Do you really believe smoking tobacco is a cause of global warming? Now you've got me really confused.

No you arent because when you smoke you arent creating any more C02 than those leaves took in when they were growing.

This is a fallacious argument, at least according to all the AGW adherents. Far be it for me to quote the Holy Bible of Al Gore, but here is how their own argument goes: NO ONE is "creating any more CO2". It is about liberating CO2 into the atmosphere, no matter where it is locked up. By your exact same argument, you cannot "blame" an automobile (or Big Oil) for it is only liberating the same CO2 that was already inherent in the oil. Yours is a non-starter argument with any "true believer in AGW." Those tobacco leaves also took CO2 out of the soil, as well as the air. In the act of smoking, you are "undoing" the good thing that the leaves did by taking that CO2 out of the atmosphere. It is NOT about "net balance of CO2". The AGW argument is wholly based upon total CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.

The measure of the AGW alarmists is what they call the "carbon footprint", and it equates to ANY source of carbon that ends up in the atmosphere, with CO2 being the most "evil." Sorry to say, but that includes Toon's cigarettes and even includes your smoker (the subject or your earlier fallacious argument for why you are not contributing to total CO2 content in the atmosphere).

And so, to directly answer Toon's question (without seeing the need for changing the precise words I used):

Do you really believe smoking tobacco is a cause of global warming? Now you've got me really confused.

It is not a matter of belief, and you will note I did not only say it is a "cause" of global warming. Here is exactly what I said...try to repond to what I say, not what you wish I said, OK Mr. Doodyhead?

Toon is contributing to global warming

That is a factual truth which can be tested and verified (only assumption is that the AGW'ers claim about CO2 is correct). There is no "belief" required here. Pure science will prove it is true. It goes like this. Feel free to try and refute any one of these elements (but you cannot):

1) Cigarettes, when burned, release carbon, along with many other toxins. The two primary forms of carbon released, in order of their volume, are CO and CO2.
2) Toon smokes cigarettes, hence Toon releases additional CO and CO2 into the atmosphere.
3) By all claims and accounts of the AGW faithful crowd, excessive CO2 in the atmosphere is what is causing global warming. (Again, Chorlton, please note your justification does not wash with the AGW crowd, you are just as guilty in your activities)
4) Hence, since Toon is releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere with each puff he takes, it is truthful and factual that Toon is contributing to global warming. (and he refuses to cease this voluntary activity)

There it is. You are both "sinners" with respect to the AGW belief system that you choose to believe (and in your cases, it really is belief, for the facts are very much not yet proven).

Ray

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Ray- you are insane.

And you are a hypocrite, but that is news to no one. Feel better now, bubby?
Ray

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Chorlton,

To prove to you that the AGW claims have nothing to do with "net CO2" (which is the basis for your fallacious argument), here is just one of the charts the AGW alarmists use in their arguments:



Notice the chart is total concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. Hence, your burning as well as Toons' ciggysticks are most definitely contributing to that concentration...as are all human activities.

The real solution, it would seem, is the extinction of humans. You guys go first since you believe this nonsense!
Ray

[gunter]

We ought not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[Chorlton]

Chorlton,

To prove to you that the AGW claims have nothing to do with "net CO2" (which is the basis for your fallacious argument), here is just one of the charts the AGW alarmists use in their arguments:

Point taken but I am not an AGW supporter. I am a supporter of the idea that, since the Industrial revolution we have been pumping stuff into the Earth, air and water that shouldnt really be there.

The real solution, it would seem, is the extinction of humans. You guys go first since you believe this nonsense!
Ray

No ! Ve haff der solution......der final solution ..............

Then again Ive always fancied tasting Soylent Green.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

We ought not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

So that is your justification for you to continue in your own CO2-spewing activities. Noted. But we always knew you were not perfect Toon, so no need to apologize. We are just trying to help you to get to that "good".

Ray

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Point taken but I am not an AGW supporter. I am a supporter of the idea that, since the Industrial revolution we have been pumping stuff into the Earth, air and water that shouldnt really be there.

Gotcha, and I agree that we should always strive to do more along these lines, but not so much that we destroy our economies (anymore than they are already destroyed) and send us back to living in caves. Because you gotta admit, that Cobra of yours is pretty sweet, just like I enjoy my second car, my 50th Anniversary Corvette. So in the interest of balance, I think it is a healthy thing for all of us to account for not only those things we do that are likely good for the environment, but also to admit to our own guilty pleasures which don't do the environment any favors. It is hard to blame "big oil" or "big industry" when we purchase/drive their products. They would not be in business were there no demand.

And this is why I lump Toon into the same group as his hero, Al Gore. They both just wish to ignore their own sins, and hope no one calls them on those sins. That is intellectual dishonesty, if not outright hypocrisy. I will at least admit to my sins and try to strike a balance. I will not ask anyone to do what I am not willing to do, and I expect the same of the rabid (pretend) treehuggers.

Ray