Disclosure, can we handle it?

A study of the political relations between humanity and ET

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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby gunter » Thu May 06, 2010 5:26 pm

Thanks! Ignore Chorlton and Gunter - they're our local grumpy old men. :)
Ignore us at your peril.

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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby Access Denied » Fri May 07, 2010 5:56 am

gunter wrote:A careful reading of the report indicates just the opposite.

Only if you’re suffering from confirmation bias I’m afraid and by “careful reading” you mean stuff between the lines that isn’t there… or listening to incredulous hacks like Dolan recycling the same old tired conspiracy “theories“ of the incredulous hacks that cane before him.

[yes, I read his book]

gunter wrote:What the panel advocated was a regime of 'debunking' (yes they used that word) led by the IC, scions of pop culture and psychologists.

You say that like it’s a bad thing…

debunk
: to expose the sham or falseness of

gunter wrote:They concluded not that there was 'nothing to the phenomena' but rather that the objects sighted were not a threat to military security- except to the extent of public acknowledgment of the events in 'these parlous times.'

You’re only partially correct in the first half of this assertion and you’re completely wrong in the second. These are the “threats” the panel found…

http://files.ncas.org/condon/text/appndx-u.htm

POTENTIAL RELATED DANGERS

The Panel Members were in agreement with O/SI opinion that, although evidence of any direct threat from these sightings was wholly lacking, related dangers might well exist resulting from:

a. Misidentification of actual enemy artifacts by defense personnel.

b. Overloading of emergency reporting channels with "false" information ("noise to signal ratio" analogy -- Berkner).

c. Subjectivity of public to mass hysteria and greater vulnerability to possible enemy psychological warfare. Although not the concern of CIA, the first two of these problems may seriously affect the Air Defense intelligence system, and should be studied by experts, possibly under ADC. If U.F.O.'s become discredited in a reaction to the "flying saucer" scare, or if reporting channels are saturated with false and poorly documented reports, our capability of detecting hostile activity will be reduced. Dr. Page noted that more competent screening or filtering of reported sightings at or near the source is required, and that this can best be accomplished by an educational program.

So clearly the panel recognized your interpretation of "debunking" would be dangerous. Also, it appears you deliberately took the following quote out of context to try and make your point…

[missing text added in red, emphasis added]

ARTIFACTS OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL ORIGIN

It was interesting to note that none of the members of the Panel were loath to accept that this earth might be visited by extraterrestrial intelligent beings of some sort, some day. What they did not find was any evidence that related the objects sighted to space travelers. Mr. Fournet, in his presentation, showed how he had eliminated each of the known and probable causes of sightings leaving him "extra-terrestrial" as the only one remaining in many cases. Fournet's background as an aeronautical engineer and technical intelligence
officer (Project Officer, BLUEBOOK for 15 months) could not be slighted. However, the Panel could not accept any of the cases cited by him because they were raw, unevaluated reports. Terrestrial explanations of the sightings were suggested in some cases and in others the time of sighting was so short as to cause suspicion of visual impressions. It was noted by Dr. Goudsmit and others that extraterrestrial artifacts, if they did exist, are no cause for alarm; rather, they are in the realm of natural phenomena subject to scientific study, just as cosmic rays were at the time of their discovery 20 to 30 years ago. This was an attitude in which Dr. Robertson did not concur, as he felt that such artifacts would be of immediate and great concern not only to the U.S. but to all countries. (Nothing like a common threat to unite peoples! ) Dr. Page noted that present astronomical knowledge of the solar system makes the existence of intelligent beings (as we know the term) elsewhere than on the earth extremely unlikely, and the concentration of their attention by any controllable means confined to any one continent of the earth quite preposterous.

Note only the weapons guy was paranoid about ET artifacts, not the scientists…

[to bring this back to the OP’s question]
Last edited by Access Denied on Sat May 08, 2010 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby jbondo » Mon May 10, 2010 3:03 pm

commdogg wrote:Its the new wave of "Jesus is coming" crap.


Think maybe you could have said that in such a way as not to purposely offend Christians? Not that I'm all that sensitive but it would seem that you are trying to somehow inflict damage for no apparent reason. Then again, maybe it's just the way you communicate. I'd expect it from Atheists but not Agnostics.

If the government was in conscious contact with aliens the program would be big. There would be way too many people working on it to keep a tight lid on everything. Something this huge would require tight cooperation from virtually every government on Earth. We can't even seal our borders. My two cents anyway.


Really? Why? Maybe there are just a handful of officials that know and meetings are small gatherings somewhere on a mountaintop. I understand your logic that Governments have trouble keeping anything small but could it be that the Aliens have asked to keep it as minimal as possible? Maybe the Aliens just beam into the Oval Office? I mean, who's going to stop an advanced race that can travel from distant stars from going anywhere they pleased? Or maybe they just pick up a couple of Generals and take them to meeting aboard their Mothership.

By the way, everything I say is hypothetical just in case someone didn't get that part of it. I have no idea if Aliens are here or if they exist at all. Although I'd tend to think they are somewhere out there...and there....and even there.
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon May 10, 2010 3:35 pm

jbondo wrote:Maybe there are just a handful of officials that know and meetings are small gatherings somewhere on a mountaintop. I understand your logic that Governments have trouble keeping anything small but could it be that the Aliens have asked to keep it as minimal as possible? Maybe the Aliens just beam into the Oval Office? I mean, who's going to stop an advanced race that can travel from distant stars from going anywhere they pleased? Or maybe they just pick up a couple of Generals and take them to meeting aboard their Mothership.


And maybe Barbara Streisand is really the one running the whole show? Maybe the aliens came to abduct her one night, and things backfired on them because they did not know that really she is the center of power on this planet? And maybe once they realized Babs is the center of power that is why they have ignored Obama? If we are going to entertain maybe without any kind of supporting rationale...

By the way, everything I say is hypothetical just in case someone didn't get that part of it. I have no idea if Aliens are here or if they exist at all.


Understand. However, I think folks are often kind of indiscriminate whenever they open the door to "maybe this is what is really going on...." Once we open the door to sheer speculation, virtually anything could "fly", right? This is one of the things that is my biggest red flag for so many people attached to UFOlogy: The "maybe" syndrome. It is often the first departure from rational, fact-based thinking. Because I can dream up a lot of "maybes" and never have to show any connection between them and any sort of reality. And sooner or later, there are those people who desperately want to believe taking such "maybes" as more than "maybe". And that sort of crap then can easily morph into "Source A, who is a highly trusted and honorable person, said...".

KnowhatImean? :D
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby jbondo » Mon May 10, 2010 4:29 pm

Maybe you're taking what I say a little too seriously. I was just trying to show the other side of the argument.

Know what I mean? :)
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon May 10, 2010 5:26 pm

jbondo wrote:Know what I mean? :)


Sure do! But especially when it comes to anything Exopolitical, the arguments on "both sides" begin to sound like fairy tales simply because they assume it as a "given" that we are being visited by exogenous intelligent life.

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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby Chorlton » Mon May 10, 2010 6:26 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:
jbondo wrote:Know what I mean? :)


Sure do! But especially when it comes to anything Exopolitical, the arguments on "both sides" begin to sound like fairy tales simply because they assume it as a "given" that we are being visited by exogenous intelligent life.

Ray


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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby exopsychman » Fri May 14, 2010 2:13 am

Most could handle Disclosure, but less would be able to handle, psychologically speaking, Contact. We have had years of conditioning, through the media, to the point where most young people today are open to the idea of extraterrestrial intelligent life. But look at human intolerance: it is still an issue that drives wars, tribalism, sexism, and religious intolerance. Humans tend to polarised thinking, and the university of Chicago racism studies support the notion that some racism is hard wired (See http://www.exopsychology.net) The reaction to Disclosure may not be panic, but it may not be pretty, either.

If there is Disclosure (assuming for the moment that there is something tangible to disclose), we should be aware that there will probably be considerable "spin" added to it. The Disclosers would be the very same paranoid Cold War Era minded guys who kept the real hard hands-on evidence covered up for decades. A shadow government would have a vested interest in Disclosing, only to the extent that it helped their agenda (command and control through fear and consumerism). The notion that there really is something to Disclose (hard evidence, alien technology, film of human-alien encounter, etc.) was supported recently by Senator McElroy's remarkable video, where he stated that while in office he saw a memo to Eisenhower referring to extraterrestrials, and the opportunity to meet with them. This is better support than usual, because it seems to come spontaneously from a former legislator.

Human emotional reactivity is still, for most, rather high. Contact, meaning numerous unambiguous sightings, landings, encounters en masse, etc., would send many people into hyperventilation, reaching for their meds, or the bottle. The fear factor is strong, in the background. Hence the danger of Disclosure being used to manipulate the masses and remove freedoms. Even if all the rumours of alien technology were fabricated to keep the Soviets guessing, that ruse has taken on a life of its own, and can still be used to generate fear, again, for the purpose of command and control.
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby jbondo » Fri May 14, 2010 2:45 pm

Without tangible proof I can't speculate as to how I would react. I don't think I would freak out but I'm sure a wave of fear would run thru me. Thankfully I have the ability to think and reason under extreme pressure but I've never encountered anything on such a level.

While I agree with much of what you say exop, I still can't help but think disclosure with proof (which is obviously how it would be) is good enough to send people over the edge and running for the ammo. Imagine watching The Price Is Right one day and suddenly a special report comes on:

The President makes the announcement that Alien ships have been spotted inside US airspace (Live video is shown). We have conferred with leaders of nations around the world and they confirm the same occurrence over their cities. The intentions of the visitors is unknown at this time. We have the military on high alert and war planes are streaking to the scene as we speak.

Now tell me everyone, are you really going to order a pizza and turn the channel to watch I Love Lucy? Do you understand how mind blowing it really is? IMO even the most outspoken supporters of Alien visitation are not as convinced as they think they are. Not until that announcement comes over the airwaves.
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby gunter » Fri May 14, 2010 5:38 pm

Chorlton wrote:
Ive yet to find more than a handfull of intelligent life here on earth !
Not so fast, mate. What about me and that Norwegian broad? I told her to sign up here by the way.
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby harborsc » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:08 pm

No we can't handle a true alien contact. Except maybe as pets.
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby jeddyhi » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:36 am

If we are actually being visited.....and as long as we are the 'inferior' race as opposed to a superior race of visitors, nothing will ever be disclosed. People everywhere like a sense of safety and security. The war on terrorism was more about alleviating fear and dread than getting payback. Disclosure of a superior, advanced race reaching our world and being far more powerful than all the nations of earth combined would surely cause fear and dread on an epic scale. A scared, nervous populace is not a happy, working, tax paying populace.....not to mention the religious implications such a revelation would bring. If we are being visited, it is a secret well worth keeping silent and hidden for numerous reasons spanning many different topics.....all in my humble opinion, of course.
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Re: Disclosure, can we handle it?

Postby Archer17 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:16 am

I think the poster that differentiated between "disclosure" and "contact" was on the right track. If they are here, they will be the ones that would need to come forward to cause a reaction. As silly as the concept that the PTB could keep an intruding ETI under wraps is, an equally silly notion is that we'd take the PTB's word for anything regarding ET without them sharing the podium.

I'd love it if we were the proverbial flame to the ufological moth as believers claim. It would be flattering, would it not? Unfortunately, wishing doesn't make it so. I'd need more than Obama to tell me they're here, I'd need Zxxorg (or whatever) from Deneb IV (or wherever) to do that.

As to whether we could we handle ET showing up? That depends on them. If they look scary or act scary then folks will freak...and if it's the latter then I'd probably freak right along with them. :wink:
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