Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby Access Denied » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:13 pm

MikeJamieson wrote:I think this sounds like a wasted and even toxic trip.

Agreed and I tried to talk him out of it a while back but it soon became apparent…

murnut wrote:If you oppose what I'm doing...I'm more convinced it is the correct thing to do.

…so I backed off.

Prior to this latest episode I was under the impression he had pretty much decided against it but I could be wrong.

gunter wrote:It is indeed obsessive anger. Where it comes from I leave to Mike J to comment. He's much adept more at that than me

That’s the understatement of the year and I’m not buying it…

I believe this is nothing more than a publicity stunt by the Cartoon Syndicate who’s suddenly found himself irrelevant to the discussion again... trolls will be trolls.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:38 am

Access Denied wrote:I believe this is nothing more than a publicity stunt by the Cartoon Syndicate who’s suddenly found himself irrelevant to the discussion again... trolls will be trolls.


Exactly the reason my signature says what it does. Prescience? Nope, because Toon is a constant.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby gunter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:16 pm

Good bye Kim
Listen to the wise words of the Marshall and check out what gifts this animus has brought you.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby gunter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:24 pm

Access Denied wrote:
I believe this is nothing more than a publicity stunt by the Cartoon Syndicate .
You're obviously no connoisseur of publicity stunts then. But I found a decent one for your review. How disingenuous can you be?
I'm just getting started.

I'm going to NYC this week to video interview Clay, Shawn , Richard and Morningstar whether they want to or not.

Dylan is welcome to meet up with me if he wants...or anyone else in the area...pm me tonight.

It won't be tomorrow or Friday

Let's see how these supposed men of honor act.......

I bet they run like cowards...but I hope I'm wrong

Get Ready...I'm coming
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:05 pm

You know Kim, for someone who is such a loud proponent of free speech and the like, how come you don't like it when Andy chooses to excercise his rights by going to New York to try and talk to the Pickerings? Are you only a supporter of free speech when it suits your own agenda? Andy has a personal investment in this story, you don't. Andy has had a lot of contact with the Pickerings, you haven't.

I believe he is entitled to do whatever he wants, within the confines of the law of course. The fact you are trying your darndest to censure him is duly noted, given your previous statements.

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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby gunter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:12 pm

No, Steve. This thing is rolling over from investigation to persecution. I have no great love for the Pickerboyz or Bob Morningstar or Mike Salla. But they also have the right to speak on their own terms and at a time of their own choosing. The dispute should remain in the universe of words in my opinion. No physical confrontation is required. You beat liars with argument, not fists. The ongoing RU investigation has done just that- and it has been both devastating and entertaining. Some confrontations go overboard as I pointed out in the case of the Shawnna- JakeReason debacle in which personal destruction overcame rational argument. As much as I feel these Sauce A characters are a gaggle of disgusting creeps I still don't have a stomach for crushing them under a boot like so many roaches. Sometimes we take life too seriously. The Marshall speaks the truth in this matter: "I think this sounds like a wasted and even toxic trip. (Don't forget anger is one of the "five poisons".)" The first rule of coherent discourse is detachment. Difficult, but possible.
Last edited by gunter on Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby murnut » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:23 pm

Toon is delusional

Paparazzi use camera's

Not fists

I'm merely acting as a reporter for the people

Frankly I'm insulted and disgusted with Kim's continual lies about me.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby gunter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:26 pm

Paparazzi use camera's
Paparazzi disgust me. But to each his own. If you think no harm can come of them- ask Princess Diana. Smoke em if ya got em.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby murnut » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:31 pm

Yeah...and if you think Theilmann can do no harm...check this lady

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sectio ... id=6478046
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:33 pm

gunter wrote:
Paparazzi use camera's
Paparazzi disgust me. But to each his own. If you think no harm can come of them- ask Princess Diana. Smoke em if ya got em.


Once again Toon puts on his interpretive (rose colored) glasses and reaches a wrong conclusion as a result.

Diana's death came at the hands (literally) of a drunk chauffer, not the fact that paps were in pursuit.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby gunter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:34 pm

Yeah...and if you think Theilmann can do no harm...check this lady
Irrelevant. What is relevant is the anticipation of a violent confrontation.

Can you imagine if they take a swing at me while the camera is rolling.

I'm hoping to have Dylan along as well taping from a far.

They want to beat me up..I'll let them....on video.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby gunter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:37 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:
gunter wrote:
Paparazzi use camera's
Paparazzi disgust me. But to each his own. If you think no harm can come of them- ask Princess Diana. Smoke em if ya got em.


Once again Toon puts on his interpretive (rose colored) glasses and reaches a wrong conclusion as a result.

Diana's death came at the hands (literally) of a drunk chauffer, not the fact that paps were in pursuit.
Ray

If it's proximate cause you want to parse- why not blame the concrete column? The photographers in pursuit share the blame in my opinion.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby murnut » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:51 pm

gunter wrote:
Yeah...and if you think Theilmann can do no harm...check this lady
Irrelevant. What is relevant is the anticipation of a violent confrontation.

Can you imagine if they take a swing at me while the camera is rolling.

I'm hoping to have Dylan along as well taping from a far.

They want to beat me up..I'll let them....on video.



This is taken out of context...another poster brought up the fact that the Pickerings would attack me physically for asking questions.

Truly though...you are the one irrelevant Kim.....you are a proven liar, and proven troll.
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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:06 pm

gunter wrote:If it's proximate cause you want to parse- why not blame the concrete column? The photographers in pursuit share the blame in my opinion.


I would not blame the concrete column (a truly irrelevant red herring!) because innumerable other people navigate the same roadway, some even at the speed achieved by Henri Paul, and live to tell about it. But at least we have found another technical discipline you wouldn't be good at, Toon: Accident investigation. The driver had sole control of the vehicle, and the driver selected the speed he wished to drive, not the pap. Unless there was contact by pap vehicles against the car driven by Paul forcing it to do something he was not controlling it to do, the paps had little to no effect. EVEN IF there was a car in front purposefully trying to slow down Diana's car, the rules of the road are clear, and the blame lies with the driver.

In the context of the Source A story, what you are saying above amounts to: "RU was in pursuit of this fraud Theilmann, and therefore RU shares the blame for his reckless actions." Yes, that does sound stupid, doesn't it?

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Re: Dark Matters Radio-June 23rd

Postby ryguy » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:05 pm

gunter wrote:No, Steve. This thing is rolling over from investigation to persecution.


Wrong - it has moved from the "prove it's a fraud" phase into the "identify motive and agenda" phase. There are still answers regarding their intent to deceive and defraud people that need to be determined. They realize that the public is unaware of their ultimate intentions (whether it was to eventually create a movie, book, play or whatever) - but those answers remain a mystery. Running away and hiding like the Pickerings have done, or attacking the messengers and continuing the charade as Richard has done - is not going to fly.

I am also significantly disturbed by your defense of people who are proven fraudsters, and your attack of a person who brought you the truth of this story. If it weren't for the people who brought you the truth, you'd still be in the dark concerning who Source A is. You should be thanking Andy, not attacking him. Oh...wait...maybe I understand. You're jealous because you've never been able to do what Andy (or Shawnna back then) did - fully uncover the truth about a con artist.

I have no great love for the Pickerboyz or Bob Morningstar or Mike Salla. But they also have the right to speak on their own terms and at a time of their own choosing.


Do they also have the right to cover-up their true, nefarious motives? You sit back in your armchair and wait for someone else to bring you the truth, and then you lash out at them as though you have some moral high ground. From where I stand, you should be grouped on the same moral low ground as the "Pickerboyz" or Salla.

The dispute should remain in the universe of words in my opinion. No physical confrontation is required. You beat liars with argument, not fists.


Not liars who try to hide once the stone is overturned. They will try to crawl under new rocks. I disagree with Tom trying to dissuade Andy from going. If I lived closer, I'd be going alongside Andy - it's called investigative journalism and to borrow from a term Steve recently used, sometimes you have to get "boots on the ground" to find those hard answers. And in this case, since they're trying to make sure no one knows what their true motives were, it becomes all that much more important to make them say "no comment" in person, and to interview other people who know them to try to understand their motives behind doing what they did in the Theilmann case.

This isn't a form of violence, it's an important form of investigative journalism and I applaud Andy for having the gumption and the gonads to put his money where his mouth is and hit the streets to get to the truth. This speaks highly of Andy's character and his desire for truth and justice.

The ongoing RU investigation has done just that- and it has been both devastating and entertaining.


Devastating to fraudsters and con-artists, and entertaining for the armchair quarterbacks too lazy to do their own research and who can't see the forest for the trees and the implications of these findings. The truth of Source A and what it means for the field of Ufology is important, not "entertaining." I get pretty sick and tired of seeing people belittling Ufology by constantly referring to it as "entertaining." You are clearly against the important cause that we're striving for here at RU - that is to bring validity to a field that for too long has been exploited as "entertainment." You, sir, are clearly part of the problem.

As much as I feel these Sauce A characters are a gaggle of disgusting creeps I still don't have a stomach for crushing them under a boot like so many roaches.


That's because you lack Andy's level of courage, and you lack the character of most members here at RU who understand that most of the time the truth about a con artists MOTIVE is far more important than the truth about their identity. The fact that you don't care what their motives were means that you don't care about putting an end to the sort of scams con-artists like these perpetuate.

Sometimes we take life too seriously. The Marshall speaks the truth in this matter: "I think this sounds like a wasted and even toxic trip. (Don't forget anger is one of the "five poisons".)" The first rule of coherent discourse is detachment. Difficult, but possible.


He would be correct if the trip were driven by anger, but it's not. It's driven by a strong desire to see the truth regarding motives revealed. However, despite all of your contradictory statements in this thread, you did have a lucid moment on the blog when you commented with the following:

"The first order of business in laying this hoax to rest, it seems to me, would be a sincere apology for planting it in the first place."

Huh....very well said Kim. Why let your jealousy cloud your judgment - you do know that it's not Andy's current actions you despise, it's the fact that Andy can conduct a level of investigative journalism that you never could.

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