Is ATS going soft? Lost the plot?

Any discussion related to ATS goes here

Is ATS going soft? Lost the plot?

Postby Chorlton » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:28 am

Having recently left ATS, I am totally apalled at how sceptics are being treated there, and the amazing slide into banality and stupidity of the entire site.

Did he jump or was he pushed you might ask?. I jumped. I was given a final warning, toe the ATS line, be a good boy, or leave.
It was explained that is wasnt WHAT I posted but the WAY I posted which was upsetting the children on ATS. So because some posters there are so totally ignorant in the ways of the world and of rational communication between people, *I* have to change. Why not educate some of your posters,boys, let them know there is a big world outside of the US and we dont all talk and think like you do?.
As I stated in my last post on ATS (which was immediately censored and removed, (what ARE you children so afraid of????)) At 58 years old, I dont change for anyone. I left and within seconds my account was closed. However, I had already told several people that I wasnt happy with the way ATS was going and was seriously considering leaving so, I cant say I was heartbroken :cry:

What the management/owners of ATS seems to want and even encourage, are Believers, Hoaxers and Con artists who post total rubbish and court controversy. This controversy is encouraged to solicit even more believers, fools and hoaxers to improve their statistics and click-through's to appease their advertisers. Sceptics questioning the crackpot theories and suggestions are often warned and attacked (lots of sockpuppets ! whoopee !!). Believers attacking sceptics are rarely warned.

It's quite alarming to see that sceptics and anyone not kow-towing to the cult of ATS or not bleeding praise and salutations to the sickening cult of the Gang of 3 are the ones who regularly get slapped down and warned yet any soft headed fool posting, 'Ive got an alien in my toilet' or 'A Gray ate my hamster' gets encouraged.
Hoaxers? They love them, even encourage them, but critics and sceptics? they get slapped with multiple warns for the same thing (as happened to me) without even so much as an apology.

If you are an outright liar who posts total rubbish or wild speculations with not a scrap of evidence or proof, or if you have a semi famous name and post total rubbish and speculation, you are encouraged and indeed even given your own forum,
These liars and fools are also given far more leeway when posting attacks upon people than mere sceptical mortals, who, when posting far less offensive remarks get slapped with a warn.
Its one rule for them and one rule for us.

I also question the actual quantity of genuine posts, as opposed to those posts planted by sockpuppets. I have no proof of sockpuppets however, but when a lull seems to appear on ATS, quite suddenly a controversial subject will magically appear which will generate a lot of posts.
I am also very sceptical of the authenticity of the sheer number of posts that also seem to appear from time to time.
When a sceptic steps up to the firing line and totally destroys some loony principle, it seems like lots of many, never heard of nicnames come scurrying out of the woodwork to attack the sceptic and should there be a chance, to stretch the thread out even further. How many sockpuppets are being run on ATS? probably a lot, multiplied by 3. I'm pretty sure there is more than one John Lear.

The other problem with ATS is, it is totally impossible to have a rational discussion with anyone. In any face to face discussion, people will say things and use euphemisms which is all a part of the two way banter where no one takes offence. However, because of the way ATS grovels to its advertisers or its desperate drive to earn more money, the conversational repartee is stifled to a point of stupidity and blocked by its ridiculous T&C's designed, not to encourage discussion but indeed to stifle it in favout of its advertisers. OK its probably right to water down some foul or excessive language, but the sensitivity shown on ATS towards sceptics who even DARE to intimate someone might be a little short in the head department is immediatley pounced upon by a certain rabid 'spaniel'.

ATS once had credibility, gravitas, now its a home for loonies, nuts, fruitcakes and the wildest of conspiracy theorists, as well as 3 people who seem to give the whole thing a far more world wide importance than it really has.
Its a website FFS, not a way of life.
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

My greatest wish, would be to own my own scrapyard.
User avatar
Chorlton
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 pm


Re: Is ATS going soft? Lost the plot?

Postby ryguy » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:05 pm

Chorlton,

Wow...you've made a lot of very good and valid points there. One thing I do have to say to anyone who's felt censored for simply thoroughly dissecting and disassembling a con-artist's story is this:

"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

People should certainly be free to conduct a thorough and logical analysis on a story regardless of who the source of the story is, and the ramifacations of promoting it or not promoting it. To either censor a person who has a fascinating story to tell, or to censor a person who wants to ask the important questions, is wrong.

It's definitely important to maintain a particular decorum of mutual respect - but it's the mutual that most people too-often forget, skeptics and believers alike.

I'm not sure what happened in your particular case, but I do know that in several important cases, I was allowed by all three Amigos to dissect particular stories and in some cases to even lay out the problems with the source. A few cases include Duncan "The Psychic Warrior", "Bad Physics" Lear, and NetChicken's anti-Bill Ryan hoax (Netchicken was a long-time ATS member).

In fact, in the last case, NC's actions made ATS look very, very bad - yet Bill and Springer allowed us to lay out the entire story in public. They weren't happy at all about it, but they allowed it. They deserve credit for that.

With that said, I have to admit that over the past year or so, that level of acceptence for the "skeptic" side has faded drastically. I've posted much less, and watched as a number of very intelligent skeptics attempt to remain polite while getting assaulted from all sides by extremely childish and immature believers, or sockpuppets (it's very hard to tell the difference most often)... I have certainly seen people who support a poster's outrageous story allowed much more leeway in terms of attacking another poster. The other way around, the poster has often received a warning. It is very odd to see, and to this day I'm not entirely sure why....although I suspect that at some point there was a high-level decision to start cutting down on the level of skepticism over-all, and to start allowing the outrageous stories to be told.

I think if Serpo surfaced today on ATS, unlike two years ago, Bill would not turn off the lights on such a hoax. We would see it surviving just as we see with Sleeper and Lear. At some point, for some reason, there was a major transition - and the effects of it were pretty apparent.

Chorlton wrote:What the management/owners of ATS seems to want and even encourage, are Believers, Hoaxers and Con artists who post total rubbish and court controversy. This controversy is encouraged to solicit even more believers, fools and hoaxers to improve their statistics and click-through's to appease their advertisers. Sceptics questioning the crackpot theories and suggestions are often warned and attacked (lots of sockpuppets ! whoopee !!). Believers attacking sceptics are rarely warned.


Yes - logic and reason doesn't sell. If I were to create a website for the purpose of making money, I would make it as accepting of outrageous claims as possible. People love a freak show, and will give you their $20 to be able to pop inside the tent and see all of the wild and amazing things. People will not give you $20 to allow them to sit in a library where the explanations for those wild and amazing things can be found. It's human nature, it's why the National Enquirer sells....trying to uncover the Truth about the world around certainly isn't a money-making endeavor. Although I'm not entirely convinced that ATS is about making money - Mark is pretty open about what ATS makes as well as what they spend on maintaining the site - and to be quite honest, I don't believe the net gain is a heck of a lot. Certainly not enough to retire on (yet)...but in a few years from now, who knows.

When a sceptic steps up to the firing line and totally destroys some loony principle, it seems like lots of many, never heard of nicnames come scurrying out of the woodwork to attack the sceptic and should there be a chance, to stretch the thread out even further. How many sockpuppets are being run on ATS? probably a lot, multiplied by 3. I'm pretty sure there is more than one John Lear.


That's absolutely true. Over time you can recognize sockpuppets because they often don't thoroughly disguise their writing. Little things they don't realize they do when they write reveal their true identity. In the Ghostraven hoaxed-hoax thread alone, I counted at least 3-4 sockpuppets who were all individually supporting GR's efforts.

On the same account, it's also easy enough for someone to fake someone else's writing style in order to frame them - so taking writing style into account can only go so far. In this arena where con-artists are very creative, anyone looking for the truth has to walk very carefully. These guys do come in groups and tend to cooperate and collaborate with eachother quite well.

ATS once had credibility, gravitas, now its a home for loonies, nuts, fruitcakes and the wildest of conspiracy theorists, as well as 3 people who seem to give the whole thing a far more world wide importance than it really has.
Its a website FFS, not a way of life.


That's true to an extent, but I think you'd be surprised by how many people have made the world of online forums a way of life. There are a lot of members of ATS who live and breath it...there's a lot to do there - games, debates, etc... it actually is a way of life for a lot of people!

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Postby ryguy » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:39 pm

Well...I was just browsing ATS today to find any examples - and stumbled across this post from October 7th by Springer:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread307475/pg1

EFFECTIVE TODAY 07 October, 2007

After much consideration and thought it has become evident that the "Reptilian Shape Shifter" craze has got out of hand in the Aliens/UFO Forum here on ATS.

Since Reptilians are not technically "Aliens", they are certainly not UFOs and since the vast majority (if not all) of the "video evidence" is nothing more than lights reflecting on the glossy, spherical shape of the human eye and creating an elongated shadow that when viewed on a terribly pixelated, low resolution video appear to be something they are not, it is now ATS POLICY that these threads be started in the Skunk Works Forum.

The Skunk Works Forum was created for exactly these sort of theories and or speculations.

John Rhodes, one of our up and coming Conspiracy Masters, is working on the definitive series which will illustrate exactly how the light plays its trick when video taping a person in front of certain lighting configurations. I hope that work is coming sooner rather than later.

In any case we have received many requests for something to be done and there is even a thread about the dissatisfaction with the situation as it currently exists so the new policy will take effect today.

Springer...


It appears that at least regarding the most outrageous claims, the leadership at ATS seems to have their heads screwed on straight. In my opinion, Lear's claims are just as outrageous and unsupported - but that is only an opinion, and maybe not an opinion shared by ATS leadership.

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Postby Chorlton » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:04 pm

Yes I saw that and it made me giggle, but personally I cant see any difference in the reptilian stuff and half the other crackpot stuff thats posted without any evidence.
The Far Above Space and Time stuff posted by Gridkeeper, maker of hoaxes.

Take the sleeper stuff for instance, more far fetched than Harry Potter, shouldnt that be moved to the Skunkworks along with most of the Moon Pictures tripe?, Then there Lears 11/ 9 Holography comedy?.

They have to get rid of the sceptics slowly to continue allowing the other crackpots to slobber over it.
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

My greatest wish, would be to own my own scrapyard.
User avatar
Chorlton
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 pm

Postby Springer » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:32 pm

Chorlton wrote:

They have to get rid of the sceptics slowly to continue allowing the other crackpots to slobber over it.


All I have to say to your speculation quoted above is that you are so wrong it's not worth commenting on any further. :@@:

You were incapable of being CIVIL with those who enjoy the fanciful speculative side of discussion and got banned, now you might MOVE ON mate., it's getting sort of pitiful watching you over here now. :roll:

S...
Never argue with an idiot. He'll only take you DOWN to his level and beat you with experience!
Springer
Member
 
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: Indian Territory

Postby Access Denied » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:20 am

Hey Mark, can you give us a few examples of this alleged behavior please... or have the offending posts already been eliminated? :)

['ya know I love 'ya man] :D

LOL great example there Ry, I'm sure the staff struggled for weeks over making that "bold" move. ;) Some guy was posting (spamming) a bunch of crappy You Tube videos of Nancy Pelosi and such and claiming video compression anomalies were proof that they're shapeshipting "Reptilians"... go figure. That was pissing practically everybody off... even the Reptilian fans. :shock:

[but yeah it's a step in the right direction]

Here's a better example of what I sense the core issue to be with many ATSers. This thread called "Why Sleeper?" (as in why do others who can't back up their claims get booted but not him?) was gaining traction with the membership and without warning it got moved to "Chit Chat" on Below Top Secret where it promptly died a quick death...

http://www.belowtopsecret.com/forum/thread309651/pg1

Better than simply deleting the whole thread for sure lol but it’s clear to me Sleeper and John Lear (the other most prominent example) are receiving “special” treatment at the expense of their critics and others with differing viewpoints (e.g. "competing" contactees and wannabe Alien messiahs lol) who dare to question them. This is done under the guise of "civility"... if you don't show these two the “respect they deserve" (for what, making unfounded claims over and over again ad nauseum? lol) you will be shown the door... all this while their supporters are allowed to attack the critics with relative impunity. In fact Sleeper was openly encouraged *not* to respond to his critics and he doesn't... go ahead, try it... or check out the well thought out (IMHO) posts recently by "Cold Metallic Voice" for example. It was also announced at some point that any "off topic" (i.e. critical) posts will be deleted and they routinely are. Not exactly an open discussion if you ask me but hey, it’s not my business to run. Too bad because there’s a lot of brilliant minds and interesting people on ATS and I imagine they’re not exactly proud of this.

From my own experience (no doubt due in no small part to my superior interpersonal skills lol) I have been called names and outright slandered by the likes of John Lear and his "army" of supporters (all five of them lol) and I've never once complained to the staff... hey, no skin off my back, I can fight my own battles thank you very much... but piss one of those cry babies off by pointing out their outright bogus information, false claims, fabrications, and deliberate misrepresentations (i.e. basically everything they post lol) and confronting them with their ignorance too harshly (since when is being PC a virtue of conspiracy theorists? lol) and it's a different story. Management action is swift and harsh… especially on repeat “offenders”… after all it’s your own fault… you were warned. Don't like it? Go somewhere else or ignore it and be assimilated by the collective... resistance is futile and the beatings will continue until moral improves! lol

[shrug]

Of what concern should any of this be to us here at RU? Probably not much since there's no law against sensationalism (like Ry said it sells) but clearly ATS is in effect controlling the flow of UFO "information" and no doubt causing (continued) damage to the credibility of the field... caveat emptor.

[i.e. what else is new]

Oh by the way, some 200 pages and 4,000 posts later here's the "smoking gun" PROOF that NASA is secretly mining the moon (but apparently not secretly enough because they let us have these photographs lol) that many a critic has paid dearly for (often with their "life") so that ATS can allow John Lear to bring us the Truth. Ladies and gentleman I present you the "Bucket Wheel Excavator"...

Image

[taken from my copy of LO-II-162]

See anything unusual?

How about now…

Image

[taken from John Lear’s copy of LO-II-162]
Men go and come but Earth abides.
User avatar
Access Denied
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 am
Location: [redacted]

Postby Chorlton » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:52 am

Springer wrote:All I have to say to your speculation quoted above is that you are so wrong it's not worth commenting on any further. :@@:
S...


Well....you would say that wouldnt you? Its in your interest and your ego to say that, but it isnt true, and deep inside, you know it isnt true.
But you abscence of comment says much.

Take a look at ATS a few years back. Oh yes I was reading it.
A few years back you had many more sceptics and people who would speak back to the nutcases. They were allowed to speak up then without being stamped on and censored as they are now. Back then ATS was respected, it had gravitas, it allowed people to put both sides of the coin, but now it is a pitifull shadow of its former self as all the crackpots congregate there and the sceptics are running the other way. Hey ! If thats what you want and it puts pennies in your pockets.....fine! but do away with the 'Deny Ignorance' logo eh because it simply isnt true. 'Deny the Truth' would be nearer the mark, Mark.

...
You were incapable of being CIVIL with those who enjoy the fanciful speculative side of discussion
S...

No, quite wrong as my U2U box clearly showed and as the amount of applause I got from your mods clearly showed.
I even got many many U2U's from people who disagreed with me and my point of view 100%, but enjoyed the way I put things. You see, sometimes you need to ignore those that shout loudest and listen to the ones who dont shout at all !.
The problem was, the fruitcakes, loonies, believers and halfwits that infest ATS (and whom are pretty much the only people who contribute now) were incapable of understanding rational thinking and normal one to one interpersonal exchanges where 'normal' language and euphemisms are the norm. Dont blame me for the educational level of a lot of your contributors. I think the phrase "You dont get out much do you" applies to an awfull lot of your contributors.
Hell, just one look at the diction in the majority of posts explains pages ??

My point is quite easily shown in the 'UFO's over Stratford upon Avon' where I showed that what had been seen were Chinese lanterns. All the little ladies came out with an attack of vapours, pretty much never having spoken with another human being before. Even when Isaac Koi showed incontravertible proof that what was seen was Chinese lanterns the little ladies continued their abuse and denials.

You use the 'Be Civil' bit as a whip to crack against the sceptics, you rarely use it against the loonies and believers, as anyone can plainly see.

S...
and got banned, now you might MOVE ON mate.,
S...


Firstly please dont refer to me as 'mate', it suggests to others something that has not and will not happen between us. If you were Australian I might accept it but you arent.
Now, as for your claim I was banned (and I KNEW you would try that one on, I was waiting for it :? ) Thats a clear and outright lie and you know it dont you?. YOU sent me an ultimatum, leave or be banned. Ask the other sceptics on ATS. I had already U2U'd them that I was seriously considering leaving (but you already knew that having most probably looked at every U2U i and probably everyone else who disagrees witha lot of ATS policy ever posted?), I had done that several days before I left and many had asked me to stay. Your immature little U2U simply made my mind up and I left.
Oh yes, you cancelled my account after I had gone, but I left, dear thing, I wasnt pushed.
You also deleted my last post explaining to people why I was leaving, why was that? Why were you so scared of me? scared of the support I had? are you so scared that the sheeple on your site might actually realise someone was telling the truth about you and the 'Cult of the 3' ?
It was pretty obvious you were after me for some time because I wouldnt worship at the alter of ATS and pledge allegiance to the cult of 'The Three'

What about your absolute duplicity and contradictions about "Being Civil"and "Being Nice" and not allowing abuse, eh ? THAT got thrown right out of the window when you and your mods left the thread of abuse against me open for nearly a week didnt it?. Was that posted by one of your sockpuppets? because it sure seemed like it to not just me but others too. In fact you only closed that thread when you saw it was backfiring and I was getting more support than abuse.
Another thread that backfired badly on you and left you with egg on your face was the time on the Lear Thread about Holograms when you took a pop at me and other sceptics and asked what we were doing there if we disagreed so much. You dissapeared from that thread like a rat with its tail up its backside after I posted a full reply and when you saw the support we were getting, and its very strange that both myself and all the others had to explain to you what a 'discussion' was and how a debate without an opposing argument isnt a debate, but a lecture. You really dont understand a lot do you?.

S...[/quote]
it's getting sort of pitiful watching you over here now. :roll:
S...[/quote]

'getting sort of pitifull'? Oh dear, is that an insult? what have I posted that you consider pitiful, junior?
I opened a debate here about ATS, and its slide into total banality, I mean, if you cant stand to hear the truth fine, scamper back to the believers who will massage your ego and tell you how wonderfull you are.
Anyone with a braincell purporting to run a business would look at what is being said and think about it, and consider how they could improve their business. But Im sure I heard a distinct whooshing sound as that idea passed over your head. Things have to change, to evolve to suit current needs and demands (Positive Economics. Richard C Lipsey). Your site is stale, the same boring old thing. "I was abducted last week ,and in my conversation with a Zeta Reticulan......."
But like I said, ATS is just a website, nothing more nothing less, and websites dissapear by the day, by the hour. You might not realise it but those self same people who are licking your boots and ego will soon just dissapear and go back to their games consoles, whilst people like me and others wil still be out there checking on things and being nosey about the unexplained.
Your site is damaging the credibility of UFOlogy and the Paranormal but KERCHIIIIIING !!!!!!!!, Dont let that worry you.
You will need us and our contributions before we need you.
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

My greatest wish, would be to own my own scrapyard.
User avatar
Chorlton
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 pm

Postby ryguy » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:16 pm

I'm conflicted on this issue, because on the one hand Steve and I are friends with Mark, after many of the events in 2005 when people started coming after us and attacking us for exposing the true characters behind an elaborate hoax - Mark stood up pretty firmly a number of times and publicly defended us, a time or two even offered ATS law defense resources for some of the attacks they were launching. So I know without any doubt that at least as late as 2005/2006, Mark himself believed, very much, in our core cause of the valid and serious research we were embarking on in the field of Ufology.

On the other hand, one can not deny the truth of what you two are pointing out regarding Lear and Sleeper. It's pretty obvious to quite a number of skeptics - not even die-hard skeptics but even the center ones, which I like to consider myself (I hope). It's just plain obvious, Sleeper and Lear are somewhat coddled.

On the one hand, if there's anything I've learned over the past few years, it's that immediately jumping to the judgement that a person's intentions and motivations are nefarious never, ever get you any closer to the truth of a matter. Obviously there are some situations where there's a true conspiracy based on greed - can you say Enron? But I'm convinced that individually most people are good people - they have good intentions. At times their strong personal beliefs may drive those intentions, and I think that's what lies at the heart of most behavior - not evil intent or venality.

I'm simply conflicted...on the one hand I just want to say that who are we to tell people how to run a website/forum that they own - that they pay for out of their own pockets? On the other hand, AD's comment above rings very clear and very true - sensationalism is the Kryptonite of Ufologists. It drives serious and scholarly research into the ground...it causes serious scientists and investigators to throw up their hands and walk away. Over the years, the field has lost far too many of these sane and intelligent people already. Even Vallee himself - one of the most renowned researchers, known throughout the field as one of those on the forefront of serious ufology research - has stated repeatedly as of late that he has disavowed himself of the field. Given the increase of sensationalism - can we even blame him? Can we blame anyone for simply giving up?

So - I understand both sides to some degree, so it's probably best if I bow out of this one. But your points are valid Chorlton (and AD), I've noticed the same things you're talking about. I even posted a post similar to the one I'm writing here on ATS earlier this year, and the same thing happened as Chorlton described - a few skeptic mods quietly applauded...but most are afraid to raise their voices for some reason. So long as no one throws out any name-calling or any nastiness on either side - the discussion here should be fine.

Cheers,
-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Postby Chorlton » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:00 pm

Hi Ry
I dont have any serious gripes. I started this thread to see if I was alone in my thoughts and its obvious Im not. I wonder how many others would like to reply but wont for fear of having their posts on ATS put under closer scrutiny? just like mine was immediately after I joined this site? HMMMMMMMMMM?

Like I said, ATS is a website, its not a way of life. Its the duplicity that peeves me, and the pompousness exhibited by certain personages who encourage the 'Cult of the 3'.

Posters are constantly told, 'attack the post, not the poster' . That is a total impossibility in real life and shows up the main problem with ATS, its also a contradiction as certain posters have rights to attack others and get off scott free. Lear made a nasty attack upon one poster and when Springer was pulled up on it he admonished Lear publicly but gave no 'Warn', I made a throw away comment at a poster who was asking for it and I get a 'Warn'. Laughable really. Go into a pub and have a discussion about something. Someone says something ridiculous, and you say "You prat, thats daft" THAT is real life, it isnt a personal attack or an insult, but its something which ATS is now devoid of.

I was asked to go to ATS by a friend who promptly buggered off to Australia and left me to it, but Im no fan of posting serious research onto websites, for legal reasons for one, so personally I really dont care what happens to ATS, it has no place in the serious UFO or Paranormal scene.

Its just a shame to see what was, and could be, a half decent website allowed to go to rack ruin and ridicule because of the chase for subscribers, click throughs and profit motives, not to mention the desire for cult status by some people there.
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

My greatest wish, would be to own my own scrapyard.
User avatar
Chorlton
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 pm

Postby Access Denied » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:05 pm

Chorlton wrote:Firstly please dont refer to me as 'mate', it suggests to others something that has not and will not happen between us. If you were Australian I might accept it but you arent.

I hesitate to get into the middle of this but I once felt this way too… of course that was before I got to know Mark a little better. Once I was able to put aside my anger and see things from his perspective it was a little less bitter pill to swallow. As noted above I totally 100% don’t agree with his support of John Lear and Sleeper (for example) and his insistence that everybody else must come down to their level (creating an unnatural balance) and the way that those who refuse are treated but I’ve learned that as a person, Mark is approachable as long as you don’t immediately put him on the defensive... as are most people. :)

Chorlton wrote:are you so scared that the sheeple on your site might actually realise someone was telling the truth about you and the 'Cult of the 3' ?

Be careful here, this sounds like you’re painting the members of ATS with a broad brush and it’s insulting… if your goal is constructive criticism in an effort to improve the quality of ATS that’s counterproductive don’t you think? Don’t forget those people who U2Ued their support even though they don’t agree with you… they’re still there.

Believe me I understand where you’re coming from and now that you’ve had the opportunity to vent your frustrations, let’s stay focused on the issues not the personalities and see if there’s any way that something positive can come out of this. Cool?
Men go and come but Earth abides.
User avatar
Access Denied
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 am
Location: [redacted]

Postby Springer » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:02 pm

Chorlton, I have been around this maypole too many times to bother going round it with you mate. :P

I think you guys are confusing ATS with something typical (again)... ATS is not ONE FORUM, it's dozens of forums, some serious, some entertainment, some news, some fanciful, etc...

The MEMBERSHIP DRIVES THE CONTENT.

Springer...

edit to add:

http://www.belowtopsecret.com/forum/thread309980/pg1

This member sums up the sentiment nicely... Obviously he's a little upset so if one disregards the negative points about personality flaws the message is clear.

Considering Chorlton broke every record in complaints from members and staff alerts I'd say ATS is certainly NOT for him. The other 1,750,000+ people who come to ATS every month will gladly enjoy or ignore the topics as they see fit without his guidance. :D
Never argue with an idiot. He'll only take you DOWN to his level and beat you with experience!
Springer
Member
 
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: Indian Territory

Postby Access Denied » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:28 pm

Springer wrote:I think you guys are confusing ATS with something typical (again)... ATS is not ONE FORUM, it's dozens of forums, some serious, some entertainment, some news, some fanciful, etc...

That's true so which forum on ATS do you suggest members who are interested in err... less "fanciful" discussion of Aliens & UFOs without all the distraction go to? :P

[invokes the ghost of the "Fair Skeptics" initiative]

Tom
d&r
Men go and come but Earth abides.
User avatar
Access Denied
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 am
Location: [redacted]

Postby ryguy » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:08 pm

Access Denied wrote:[invokes the ghost of the "Fair Skeptics" initiative]


LOL....ouch!
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Postby Chorlton » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:12 pm

Springer wrote:Chorlton, I have been around this maypole too many times to bother going round it with you mate. :P

Round the maypole so many times yet still learned nothing?. If you had maybe you wouldnt still be going round it? Think about that one
I think you guys are confusing ATS with something typical (again)... ATS is not ONE FORUM, it's dozens of forums, some serious, some entertainment, some news, some fanciful, etc...

I think AD sorted that one out but I see you learn from Lear, or does he learn from you how to ignore salient points?
The MEMBERSHIP DRIVES THE CONTENT.

But THE GANG OF 3 CONTROL CENSOR AND ENCOURAGE IT.
Havent you learned even that much?. Debate and discussion depends on contrasting opinions. Your site is very soon going to have no contrasting opinions, merely dogma, and if I can see that, dont you think your advertisers might?. I mean even the sheeple can eventually get bored you know.

This member sums up the sentiment nicely... Obviously he's a little upset so if one disregards the negative points about personality flaws the message is clear.

And ATS has so supressed people to speak out that dissention will be atacked by the sockpuppets and eventually censored, so you will eventually end up with what I mentioned earlier....sheeple and dogma.

Considering Chorlton broke every record in complaints from members and staff alerts .

Well we only have your word for that dont we? I also probably broke all records for people supporting my views too, but well never hear about those, like I said previously, you should understand what is not being said rather than what is. Dont forget it was YOU YOURSELF that stated it wasnt what I said but how I said it, which shows a distinct lack of comprehension on the part of a large part of the posters, rather than my approach to posting.
And strange though that my points score went from a few hundred to over 30000 thanks to an awfull lot of applause?

I'd say ATS is certainly NOT for him

Thats your standard statement which you seem to use a lot isnt it? Ive seen you post it to others who's views you disagree with several times.

The other 1,750,000+ people who come to ATS every month will gladly enjoy or ignore the topics as they see fit without his guidance. :D

But not without yours eh?

Remember what I said about seeing a flea on someone elses back and missing the elephant on your own?...
I think its time for your visit to the opticians.

(Edit)
A Point worth considering and the total counter point is that this discussion would NOT be allowed on ATS ???
Aint life strange eh?
I have become that which I always despised and feared........Old !

My greatest wish, would be to own my own scrapyard.
User avatar
Chorlton
Uncovers Reality
Uncovers Reality
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 pm

Postby ryguy » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:21 pm

Springer wrote:The MEMBERSHIP DRIVES THE CONTENT.


That does make sense guys...it goes along with my current running theory that probably about 85% of the population of the world is somewhat delusional and susceptible to falling for the addictive enjoyment of sensationalism. The sane, logical, and scientific folks (with little-to-no interest in sensationalistic nonsense) are becoming vastly outnumbered... As Mark points out with the ATS stats - ATS is living proof of that.

In effect...we are now the "freaks", my friends. They, the delusional, are becoming the "sane". Welcome to the "best possible world". LOL

-Ry
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Next

Google

Return to ATS Watch

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron