Is ATS going soft? Lost the plot?

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Postby ryguy » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:41 pm

IgnoreTheFacts wrote:The other MAJOR problem with ATS is their stupid slogan “Deny Ignorance” What a friggin’ joke that one is. I think their slogan should be “Encourage Ignorance” as that is all they seem to do the majority of the time.

But, it must always be kept in mind when passing judgment about ATS, they are a for profit business first and foremost. So the general assumptions about "freedom of speech and fairness" does not really apply.


ITF - your post above is a perfect, balanced analysis of the dilemma ATS finds itself in...stuck between a need to increase revenue, and a need to maintain the "Deny Ignorance" slogan it was built upon. It's a tough dilemma and I don't envy them. We find ourselves without funding, and definitely non-profit. But that leaves us free to actually deny ignorance. Early on we really did want to drive traffic here. But after a certain point, we realized the truth of what you just wrote - sanity, reason, and scientific skeptical/open minded analysis does not draw a crowd. Unfortunately it appears the larger portion of the population are mindlessly drawn to and intrigued by the rediculous and outrageous.

It's the "rubberneck" syndrome.

All we can do is personally persist and work toward helping to put a sane analysis out there on these issues. It's a matter of educating the people that at least take the time to do their homework. There aren't a majority out there, but maybe over time people will stumble upon our work and learn that sometimes truth is much more fascinating and interesting than fiction. And maybe we will, one day, become the majority - once enough people are educated.

Cheers,
-Ry
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Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:54 pm

Ry, that was exactly my point. Thank you for clarifying it better than I put it.

ATS will remain a great source of entertainment, and even a decent source of information and leads to look into. It's just that I fear in the future you will have to wade through a ton of encouraged (although not "directly so") nonsense to find the diamond in the rough.

And there have been several diamonds I have found on ATS. Funny though, they are posts that seem to not draw attention and fade away.
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Postby Zep Tepi » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:03 pm

Hi guys, long time no type! I've been very busy lately but I have been around keeping tabs on things, and of course working on the forthcoming report with Ry. Anyway, more about that later ;)

I agree with the analysis as stated above 100%. ATS can be a great place to visit and spend a few hours browsing the thousands of posts on offer. I personally got a a little put-off by the 911 stuff that was being posted and that the same old things were being brought up time after time - despite the fact those questions and statements had long been answered and dealt with. Anyhow, that's just me. I've said from the very beginning that I've always found it odd why people get so het-up by what goes on over there. After all, ATS is just a forum with a massive amount of users, it's not as if they are touting themselves as a public information source.

That has changed now however, especially considering the masssive amount of investment that has been placed in ATS. You can no longer say it's "just a forum" - clearly that is no longer the case. As such it is perfectly understandable that skeptical folk will question the way things are done over there - especially considering ATS are pushing to be the premier site of it's type. Wild claims and outlandish stories that are purported to be factual must be allowed to be questioned and examined irrespective of who it is making that claim. Sadly, far too many people will simply believe a story based on nothing more than the "story sounding believable". The gusto with which those believers then go out and attack the skeptics -based on no evidence whatsoever remember - has to be sometimes seen to be believed. I've seen before at other sites when the skeptics have been given a hard time by staff and membership alike, regardless of whether or not the point they were making was valid. That is primarily the reason RU exists in the first place!

That said, neither I nor Ryan have ever had a problem whenever we have posted at ATS, and no one could accuse us of being believers ;) In saying that, it has been a while since I have posted at ATS so maybe things have now changed, I don't know. Investors invariably would like to see a return on their cash and when profit becomes the overriding factor behind running a website, well, I suppose anything can happen.

I have been very surprised by our own statistics recently and thought I would comment on this by Ryan earlier:

Ryguy wrote:Early on we really did want to drive traffic here. But after a certain point, we realized the truth of what you just wrote - sanity, reason, and scientific skeptical/open minded analysis does not draw a crowd. Unfortunately it appears the larger portion of the population are mindlessly drawn to and intrigued by the rediculous and outrageous.

It's the "rubberneck" syndrome.

All we can do is personally persist and work toward helping to put a sane analysis out there on these issues. It's a matter of educating the people that at least take the time to do their homework. There aren't a majority out there, but maybe over time people will stumble upon our work and learn that sometimes truth is much more fascinating and interesting than fiction. And maybe we will, one day, become the majority - once enough people are educated.


Despite there not being hundreds of posts a day, and despite our overdue report (trust me, the wait will be worth it), our statistics have skyrocketed recently. This month is on course to smash our all-time visitor record which was set in July this year. Currently, well over 1000 people a day -every day- visit the RU website. That includes this forum, the main website and the blog - with the forum being the most popular destination for our visitors.

Sure, the adverts don't pay that much lol, but for the first time since RU started they are on course to pay for the annual running costs of the site, which is nice :)

Keep it up guys, you're doing a great job and providing an excellent service to those who need our help in understanding the whole story, regardless of what that story may be.

Cheers,
Zep
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Postby yfxxx » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:38 pm

Access Denied wrote:So when John Lear goes on C2C and plugs ATS that's not free advertising?

Does this mean that this particular form of advertising will cease?? :shock:

Anyway, I wonder what's the story behind this "retirement" ;).
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Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:25 pm

There is no longer a John Lear forum on ATS. I received a bunch of U2U's this morning saying my threads in that section have been moved to skunk works? What gives?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread331804/pg1

Either they are going to elevate him to godlike status and give him supreme authority over all conspiracies, or there is some sort of behind the scenes temper tantrum going on.

My guess is this is just like the "New Coke" thing back in the 80's. Take away the original for a while, and his notoriety will only grow by leaps and bounds, then when he makes his triumphant return he will be bigger than life. Long live marketing!!!!
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Postby Chorlton » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:16 pm

Or could it just be that Springer has finally tumbled that the only thing that comes out of Lears mouth is total bollocks?

Lear is a total liablity to ATS, yes his rubbish does draw in the loony brigade but I would suspect that even they eventually realise he lost his marbles years ago.

I hear there are moves afoot in the UK to have James Casbolt sectioned. Couldnt the same thing be done to Lear? on the grounds that he is not only a danger to himself but to others?
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Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:27 pm

I wonder what idiot they will get to replace Lear.....Casbolt? LOL.

Lear left on his own accord, so he can't say he lost the battle of wits, but the writing was on the wall. He was getting tore up with reason, common sense and logic and it got the better of him. It came to the point where he could not differentiate between someone tearing up his crazy ideas and personally attacking him, I guess.

I just logged in and found a few of my U2U's being have been read on my ATS account, and several others have found the same thing, so I guess there is still something going on....
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Postby Springer » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:09 pm

Casbolt?! :o

I know you fellows don't think much of me, but THAT hurt! :lol:

The answer is NO.

The next addition is one that some of you will actually approve of, not all of you mind you, but some.

ITF, if you have unread (by you) u2us in your in box that *appear* to have been read it's because they were sent to multiple members and once read by one "un bolded" for all. I assure you we have much better things to spend our time on than snooping in your u2u in box. :@@:

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Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:42 pm

Thanks for the explanation, I knew you had better things to do than read through my U2U's, but figured the person who sent it to me was in the middle of the whole thing and you might have been watching his account (however, if that was the case you would just read his outgoing/sent messages)
However, the response that I -thought- was read was a reply (a specific one at that) to something that I U2U'd him about, so I doubt it was sent to multiple members...unless it was copied to another member. Plus, he told me if something was not highlighted before I read it that you guys have already been there and gone, lol. And he is an upstanding member with thousands of posts, so I thought he might know what he was talking about....

So, if it's not going to be Casbolt....I KNOW WHO THE NEW ATS UFO/ALIEN CONSPIRACY MASTER IS................Billy Meier. Has to be, he is the only personality you could follow someone as absurd as John Lear up with.

One thing is for sure, you need to replace Lear's section with something, or the skunworks people will start bitching that our moon base stuff is interfering with their reptilian youtube videos.
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Postby yfxxx » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:16 pm

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Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:33 pm

We should compile a "best of John Lear" index, lol.

Anyway, the worm turns over at ATS and the meat is starting to come out. Looks like it was a behind the scenes misunderstanding........
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Postby ryguy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:08 am

Springer wrote:The next addition is one that some of you will actually approve of, not all of you mind you, but some.


As long as it's not one of the Serpo scammers - I'm down with it.

-Ry
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Postby caleban » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:21 am

The next addition is one that some of you will actually
approve of, not all of you mind you, but some.


If you are referring to the Cliff Stone trial questions/answers in the Roswell
Docs thread, I agree that he is far more polite than JL. He actually has
contributed something, which should place him in some form of ATS esteem.

But you also have a built-in "lessons learned" folder with JL. These are
examples which predict the ultimate outcome. First, typical activity that
generate a warn against JL.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/vie ... st=2638070

Next, when he treats your admin the same way, he gets a 30 day ban. Eight
posts down from the page 3 top post, first paragraph is JL classic slam directed
against guess who ? And note how long ago this was.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread235064/pg3

or the skunworks people will start bitching that our moon base stuff is interfering
with their reptilian youtube videos.


Now thats just funny !
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Postby Springer » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:25 am

Nope, NOT Meier (PLEASE!), NOT anyone associated with slurpo (Ry I am aghast!) and not Clifford Stone.

Our Nube is someone who has actually been educated in the sciences and is, IMHO, a good egg and a REAL researcher.

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Postby Chorlton » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:32 am

Springer wrote:Nope, NOT Meier (PLEASE!), NOT anyone associated with slurpo (Ry I am aghast!) and not Clifford Stone.
Our Nube is someone who has actually been educated in the sciences and is, IMHO, a good egg and a REAL researcher.
Springer...


Oh No ! another fruitcake then.
So if nutty Lear has gone when is his nutcase-in-arms mate Zorgon getting the boot?

But to be honest it really doesnt matter who replaces Lear on ATS, its tolerance of totally madcap ideas/suggestions and intolerance of sceptics is what flushes it down the tube alongside OM.

Any truly unbiased site would give equality to both ideas. Which is what ATS refuses to do. "we dont like the way you said that" Booohooooo :cry:
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