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Postby uberarcanist » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:07 am

Personally, I don't think Lear is stupid OR crazy. His posts are too lucid for him to be nuts. How could he be stupid if he's got more aircraft certifications from the FAA than anyone else in the world? My personal take is that he knows he's posting disinformation, the only answer I don't have is why is he doing it.
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Postby ryguy » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:10 am

uberarcanist wrote:Personally, I don't think Lear is stupid OR crazy. His posts are too lucid for him to be nuts. How could he be stupid if he's got more aircraft certifications from the FAA than anyone else in the world? My personal take is that he knows he's posting disinformation, the only answer I don't have is "why".


You could be right.

Usual human motives are money, fame, ego, a messianic complex, or delusion.

If you feel confident cancelling out the delusion - go down the list and again, trace his past and who he was and is talking to.

If you're serious about doing the research on Lear, we could create a private research area for anyone interested in it - and Steve and I can occasionally help out too if you wish. Might discover some interesting nuggets in them hills... ;)

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Postby Chorlton » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:20 am

uberarcanist wrote:Personally, I don't think Lear is stupid OR crazy. His posts are too lucid for him to be nuts. How could he be stupid if he's got more aircraft certifications from the FAA than anyone else in the world? My personal take is that he knows he's posting disinformation, the only answer I don't have is why is he doing it.


Having thought about it I think we have 3 possibilities.
1) Lear has lost his marbles totally
2) Lear has partly lost his marbles but has periods of lucidity
3) He's on the ATS payroll and posts rubbish knowing it will eventually cause controversy = more discussion = higher stats for ATS.

Im leaning towards 3 now. SO is always harping on about 'ATS staff' doing this or 'Asking Ats staff' to do that. I suspect he's on a retainer and also pulls in some money from advertising.
I cannot believe a rational person could post such utter rubbish as he does without there being some payback for him. Its obvious from his past activities that he has no care or consideration for others so as he gets older he has more concern for income and even less consideration for the truth. He could also be, as some have postulated a disinfo plant, put into place to keep sufficient rubbish coming through the system to keep people from what could be going on behind the scenes. In this respect I would also postulate that Zorgon also has a place in this somewhere as some of his postings beggar belief.
Whatever it is, it, along with the fawning sheep that him and his purile dribble encourages is doing no good at all for Space and UFO research.
Fortunatley, Lear has little following in the UK. Though Im getting a little suspicious about Mr Pope lately who seems to say anything people want to
hear for money.

Lear put his foot right into his mouth when on one thread thread he alledged that the CIA had brought down the Australian PM Gough Whitlam . Unfortunately for Lear, I was a friend of Whitlam in the 70's and knew about most of what went on and called Lears bluff. He promised to post further evidence but, like many promises he and Zorgon make, they never surfaced.
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Postby Access Denied » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:10 pm

uberarcanist wrote:How could he be stupid if he's got more aircraft certifications from the FAA than anyone else in the world?

I asked him this once and he flat out told me he paid for it. This is where Ryan’s suggestion of investigating his background and claims can answer a lot of questions. If you’re interested I suggest you start by checking out the wiki entry on pilot certification that reveals some potential loopholes in the process…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_cert ... ted_States

[my emphasis in bold]

To obtain a certificate or add a rating, a pilot usually has to undergo a course of training with a certificated instructor, accumulate and log specific aeronautical experience, and pass a three-part examination: a knowledge test (a computerized multiple-choice test, typically called the "written test"), and a combined oral and practical test carried out by either an FAA inspector or a designated examiner.

Another form of authorization is an endorsement from a flight instructor that establishes that the certificate holder has received training in specific skill areas that do not warrant a full test, such as the ability to fly a tailwheel-equipped, high-performance, complex, or pressurized airplane.

Airman certificates other than student pilot certificates do not expire, although they may be suspended or revoked by the FAA. However, a pilot must maintain currency — recent flight experience that is relevant to the flight being undertaken. To remain active, every pilot has to undergo a flight review with an instructor every 24 calendar months (unless he gains a new pilot certificate or rating in that time), and, for most types of certificate, undergo a medical examination at intervals ranging from six months to three years, depending on the pilot's age and desired flight privileges. Other currency requirements apply to the carriage of passengers or to flight under instrument flight rules (IFR).

It doesn’t take much imagination from there to figure out considering who his father was how much of that could have been accomplished “under the table” so to speak… especially in the past where things maybe weren’t as formal as they are today and if those who helped him out knew there was no risk of him actually endangering anyone by trying to fly a plane lol.

Somewhere there’s a post he made about crashing a plane and injuring himself severely when he was young… maybe he was trying to tell us all something? Personally I’m convinced he has had little or no actual flight experience since then… certainly not as the worldly swashbuckling aviator he’s so fond of describing himself as. He’s failed every specific aviation related question posed to him in some way as far as I know... that is excluding anything anyone could find using google lol.

Check out the recent posts by “weedwhacker” on ATS… he seems to shoot some pretty big holes though Lear’s claims of working for some small outfit in Las Vegas. Another poster questioned him recently about the L-1011 and after Lear’s rather lengthy and highly questionable response he said something like “Thanks John, I learned more about the L-1011 in your post then in all my 35 years of flying one”. :shock:

The bottom line is I’ve never seen him fly and I don’t know anyone completely independent of/unrelated to him that I would trust who has either… I could be wrong but when it comes to Lear I wouldn’t take anything he says for granted and I wouldn’t put forgery past him either. ;)

[think his and Lazar’s badges, W-2s etc.]

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Postby uberarcanist » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:26 pm

Though I wouldn't put large-scale fabrication past Mr. Lear, personally I'm leaning towards a belief that he has logged about a zillion hours in the cockpit on many different types of aircraft (though it's not unlikely, either, that he simply bought many of his certifications without the typical training/examination process)
and has worked, officially or otherwise, for the CIA and/or Air America. I'm basing my beliefs about Lear's past experience on an autobiographical speech he's given in the past to a society of aviators (link below). I do not think Lear would have been invited to speak to the society if most of his story couldn't be externally verified. Furthermore, unlike the vast majority of the garbage that Lear posts on ATS, the story that he tells to this society is both plausible and loaded with details. Despite the wanton inaccuracy of his posts on ATS, Lear represents a real enigma that I would like to investigate further but I currently cannot find the time to do so.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/index.html
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Postby ryguy » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:14 pm

To his credit, at least Mr. Lear sums himself up as follows:

Now some of you may be asking why so many airlines collapsed that I worked for and why I got fired so many times. My excuse is simple. I am not the brightest crayon in the box, I am extremely lazy, I have a smart mouth and a real poor f**king attitude.

John Lear
Las Vegas, July 2004


There you have it.
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Postby Access Denied » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:51 pm

uberarcanist wrote:I'm basing my beliefs about Lear's past experience on an autobiographical speech he's given in the past to a society of aviators (link below). I do not think Lear would have been invited to speak to the society if most of his story couldn't be externally verified.

You're basing your beliefs on some stuff posted on Zorgon's web site?

caveat emptor

Call me crazy but do you have a more reliable source for that other than from Lear himself?

Please don't tell me you have no reason to doubt his word. :lol:
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Postby Springer » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:32 pm

<:roflmao:>

AD, you are REALLY headed the wrong way now my man.

Why don't you apply that AA degree you have and call the FAA and ask who the most certified pilot in US Aviation history is? (John Lear)

And for Chorlton:
I am also happy to report that Lear is NOT on our payroll, receives NO MONEY from The Above Network, LLC or ANY of its affiliates including but not limited to ATS. Lear doesn't get a red cent (or anyother form of currency) from us.

Ryan, please do set up a separate research forum for these guys, let them learn something and GET OVER the fact people like to discuss the far out wth Lear. Or not... :@@:

Springer...
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Postby Access Denied » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:49 pm

Springer wrote:Why don't you apply that AA degree you have and call the FAA and ask who the most certified pilot in US Aviation history is? (John Lear)

LOL try to pay attention Mark, I have an AS degree and I already posted a link to the FAA web site where anybody can check his credentials. His credentials aren't the issue here... the man doesn't even understand the most basic principals of gravity and he believes Aliens are eating Humans in underground military bases… are you going to get in a plane with him at the controls? :lol:
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Postby Zep Tepi » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:57 pm

Haha! :lol:

I know I haven't been participating in this thread so much - mainly because I haven't really been reading the Lear stuff - but I have to say AD makes a really good point in the above post. ROFL

I think I may have ruined my keyboard though...


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Postby Springer » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:59 pm

Sorry about that Tom, AS it is then...

You bet I'd get in a plane with him at the controls! WRT to his THEORIES, they have ZIP to do with his career IMHO. The guy is the REAL DEAL when it comes to aviation and being a professional pilot, of that there is no doubt.

To suggest otherwise is, well, about as far out as the stuff he talks about. :o

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Postby ryguy » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:04 am

"Pssshht......Ladies and gentleman..this is your pilot Mr. Lear speaking. All reports have the skies clear with a bit of rain about halfway through the trip, but for the most part we should have smooth sailing.

Also, as we approach 20,000 feet, I'd like you to keep your eyes peeled for a fleet of Alien craft. I was informed last night from one of my sources that Aliens based on the moon will be making a trip today to earth...we should be intercepting them just around 2pm or so...so keep your eyes peeled and wave hi!"

**Moments after this announcement, the stewardess was trampled by the crowd stampeding off the plane.**
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Postby uberarcanist » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:42 am

Access Denied wrote:You're basing your beliefs on some stuff posted on Zorgon's web site?

caveat emptor

Call me crazy but do you have a more reliable source for that other than from Lear himself?

Please don't tell me you have no reason to doubt his word. :lol:


It's just hard for me to believe that speech was 100% a work of fiction considering how much more believable it is than what Lear posts on ATS. I've seen Lear's fiction, and, if this is fiction, it's head and shoulders above his next best "work".
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Postby uberarcanist » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:08 am

Chorlton wrote: Unfortunately for Lear, I was a friend of Whitlam in the 70's and knew about most of what went on and called Lears bluff.


If you don't mind me asking, how did you come by knowing Mr. Whitlam?
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Postby Access Denied » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:34 am

uberarcanist wrote:It's just hard for me to believe that speech was 100% a work of fiction considering how much more believable it is than what Lear posts on ATS. I've seen Lear's fiction, and, if this is fiction, it's head and shoulders above his next best "work".

Understood. Who knows, perhaps he didn't write it or he had help... or parts of it were "borrowed"? Note that “speech” starts off with this...

One of the anguishes of advancing age is losing old friends. The upside of that, though, is that I get to tell the story my way.

Speaking of an enigma do you believe he was sincere when he said this...

I was wrong
http://www.fantasticforum.com/1res/show ... adid=10744

I just realized that I was spending far too little time with my family, especially my grandson pursuing subjects of fruitless and pointless speculation. I feel that for too long I have been mislead about the subject of UFO's and aliens which I now know do not exist in any form other than wild imagination. This will be my last post here on the FF on UFO's or any related subject and my good friends will not email, pm, bother me or speculate on this matter because the truth is I was wrong and open speculation will only cause me further embarrassment.

John Lear
09-27-2004

Note he posted this in the same year (2 months later) he supposedly made that alleged speech. 6 months later he "reemerged" with this post here...

His Omnipotent and Supreme Wing Nut Speaks
http://www.fantasticforum.com/1res/show ... adid=15020

It’s almost like we’re talking about two different people…

Again, for me it all boils down to independent confirmation... on the other hand what difference does it make? It's a waste of time. The man is clearly full of sh_t. :D

I have to hand it to Springer and Co. though... kudos to ATS for giving him a megaphone to trash UFOlogy with. 8)
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