The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby caleban » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:11 am

I am going to break my generic rule and post twice in a row because I am tired.

Are you a forum moderator and warn me..."


The warning is for everyone here. The purpose of this board and the future potential is at risk
and the enemy is US. That includes you.

I tried logic with Lear on ATS.


If what I have seen here is a sample, it is easy to see why your results are a vacuum.
You have posted for all to see and conclude that antagonism, insults, and blowing your
own horn are so far from logic that you are also locked in the septic, not skeptic mode.

This is either a funny joke, or you have never tried to discuss with Lear and Z.


If you can spare some time from your multiple-in-a-row spam postings, maybe do a little reading,
posted for all to see is a short discussion I had with John Lear and I actually (surprise) received
a lucid, logical, informative, and useful answer. I have checked it out. Surprise again !
It checks out.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby yfxxx » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:31 am

caleban wrote:If what I have seen here is a sample, it is easy to see why your results are a vacuum.

No, it isn't a sample! As I said, I tried logic and reason on ATS. Didn't work out at all.

If you can spare some time from your multiple-in-a-row spam postings, ...

Why do you have a problem with posting two answers to two different postings straight in a row??

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Chorlton » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:59 am

caleban wrote:
Which goes to prove what I stated elsewhere about your level of comprehension.


Continual repetition works well in self hypnosis. Judging by the look of your avatar, you have it
perfected now..

As you seem to live in a constant state of self hypnosis Ill take your word for it. Im amazed, however, you take seriously anyones avatar, it was attempted to bring a little levity to ATS but even there some retards took it to mean something personal. So Just for you, Ive changed it.

Then again I did read somewhere about people being able to see a flea on someone elses back
and missing the elephant on their own?

Thats a misquote from the Bible, something you have said you would not read. I could have fun with that using
the very words you use on others but I won't. You are having too much fun with your stuck record..

No im having too much fun seeing you with your foot in your mouth. Its either that or you are just speaking funny.
Its a widely used quote here in the UK, maybe it came from the bible, but your assumptions that I got it from there shows basic flaws in your argument

Oh, BTW, you missed our first class on "what is a sceptic". The spelling is critical to the correct
meaning. You have been using "septic". It is never too late to switch to the correct definition.

The spelling might be wrong for the US but its entirely correct here in the UK.
Now have you got anything decent to say or are you just in a nitpicking mood? Then again when you say anything it needs deciphering before it can be understood. Is English not your first language? If not I apologise.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:39 am

I wonder if we could focus on the stupid claims and the even wackier claimants, rather than trying to one-up each other with snide remarks? It is my feeling that snide remarks should only be reserved to hurl back at people making wild claims when they resort to the same kinds of snide remarks when they clearly cannot provide evidence for their claims. To me, THAT is when such snide remarks are most entertaining... because it shows such claimants would rather engage in tit-for-tat, rather than do any meaningful supporting of their claims.

Just a request. Thanks...
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 pm

Access Denied wrote:I've suspended johnlear and Zorgon's accounts for the time being while I get this sorted out…


Oh man, come on. Other than this thread getting a little off topic with some spirited debated about physics I don't see any major problems. Our members threw more insults out than they did. And first, too I might add.

By banning them (unless there is something going on behind the scenes we are not aware of) you look no better than ATS does right now. In fact, one could accuse you of being an ATS sock puppet. Perhaps the 3-Amigos control this board secretly, and use it to their advantage to see what is and isn't working on the mother board, lol. Conspiracies within conspiracies.

I think the proper course of action would have been to moderated the thread to being back on topic and separate the couple of sidelines into threads within their appropriate sections for further debate.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Chorlton » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:41 pm

I support AD's suspension and would suggest it becomes permanent.
IMHO, Having those two on this forum sends the wrong messages out to people. You cant have people who have little grasp on reality into a fotum hoping to uncover it. They belong with the other fruitcakes on OM and GLP.

Dont get me wrong, its quite fun seeing Lear and Zorgon wriggling and getting up to their old tricks of bringing up nutcase books and distant and remote references to back up their idiotic ideas, but I dont think it does the forum any good, unless its banished to the latrine.

I apologise to Ray for swiping out a Caleban but his total contempt for the truth warranted it and I shall in future ignore his ravings and consider myself slapped on the wrist. :|
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:17 pm

Access Denied wrote:I’m reinstating their accounts on the condition that you two take an active role in moderating them. Let me know when you’ve had enough. :D


Their accounts were reactivated 4 hours after being suspended. The above "condition" was tongue in cheek, I think... ;)
AD wasn't 100% sure that JL and Zorgon were who they appeared to be because of a minor discrepancy wrt the IP information. There were also some pm's flying back and forth which only served to enhance that confusion. Add all of that to "past history" and well, these things happen.

So, as you were, but let's try and keep it a little more civil in here.

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:25 pm

Chorlton wrote:I support AD's suspension and would suggest it becomes permanent.
IMHO, Having those two on this forum sends the wrong messages out to people. You cant have people who have little grasp on reality into a fotum hoping to uncover it. They belong with the other fruitcakes on OM and GLP.


The easiest way to show others why someone is flat-out wrong about a particular subject is to highlight exactly why they are wrong. Highlight the obvious and not so glaring errors and await a reply - much like Ray did above. When certain members then choose to ignore these counter arguments, they are banned - much like what happened to Michael Horn and certain other promoters of nonsense.

The rules are quite clear on the subject.

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:27 pm

Good, because the reason this place is never busy is because we all just sit around here and agree with each other all the time. Where's the fun in that anyway?

Since this is the ATS watch forum, I'm going to throw out a conspiracy theory. I propose that there is no RU "3" as it were, but that they are in fact the 3 Amigos from ATS. They use this board as a tool to help tune their board. In addition to sites that are grounded in logic, reason and common sense (this board) they also own the open minds forum and godlikeproductions as well. Having all these other forums under their control allows them to moderate both sides of the argument in order to use the discussion to feed the maximum number of clicks to ATS in the long run.

There. Thats my woo woo theory of the day and I'm sticking to it (its not easy to think like a woo, that took considerable brain power for me to contemplate, lol)

But again, I love the ability to have back and forth with nutjobs and whackos. Zorgon (and to a lesser extent Lear) are the top of that food chain, and can at least sustain back and forth, unlike many of the other folks out there. Granted their ideas are WAY over the top, but are they not fun to argue? Besides, I don't want to have to go to 8 different boards to figure out what the other side is up to anyway. I would rather just find out here and debate it.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:33 pm

Drat, he's only gone and caught us. Run!
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zorgon » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:36 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:When certain members then choose to ignore these counter arguments, they are banned - much like what happened to Michael Horn and certain other promoters of nonsense.


Question... does this work both ways here? Many time at ATS I have provided direct evidence (like the LANL Looking Glass report) in a direct answer to 'prove my point' only to have the original questioner totally ignore the link, and resort to what is referred to as 'septic' tactics by caleban.

Those like Chorlton (who totally missed the SEPTIC not SCEPTIC remark in his comments about spelling :P ) scream foul at everything we say, but never actually look at the evidence... I guess the tactic is 'can't refute the official document so attack the poster'

Zep Tepi wrote:Drat, he's only gone and caught us. Run!


:shock: Now yer talking! Seems I was just thinking the other day how this 'feud; between ATS, RU and OM 'might' just be a game to keep the drama alive...

One of the reasons I stopped by here after talking to ITF ( and I know he will probably be blasted for thinking of dragging me in here :P) is my concern over certain vanishing threads at ATS. Since I have not talked to Mark yet on this one I will not yet drag it in here... after all that is what got Mark mad at John in the first place (despite what many THINK is the reason)

The original thing that got me (keeping this on topic) is a post I saw at OM... namely this one...

Re: Mars anomalies
« Reply #15 on Jan 9, 2007, 1:08pm » [Quote]
Simon Grey (one of the 3 ATS owners) posted today at RU.

"Of course ATS is a destination for serious discussion, evidence of that can be seen in that we have collaborated with NASA as one example on clarifying confusion surrounding images of Mars."

I wonder what Clark McClelland a retired senior NASA official here would say about ATS' investigative prudence in collaborating with NASA for "clarifying confusion surrounding images of Mars"?


Considering what I do... naturally this comment was of concern to me... and naturally, IF ATS was indeed 'collaborating' with NASA... well it would probably not be the best site for me to do all that work on...

Now I have since seen the link at ATS where the NASA 'kudos' came from... but have not seen the post in its original context here at RU... which is what I came for... looking for the truth of things..

Now as to the John and Zorgon bashing fest... may I suggest a separate thread :P Then we can keep it 'on topic'

And AD STILL owes me a cup of COFFEE 8)
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:28 pm

Zorgon wrote:
Zep Tepi wrote:When certain members then choose to ignore these counter arguments, they are banned - much like what happened to Michael Horn and certain other promoters of nonsense.


Question... does this work both ways here? Many time at ATS I have provided direct evidence (like the LANL Looking Glass report) in a direct answer to 'prove my point' only to have the original questioner totally ignore the link, and resort to what is referred to as 'septic' tactics by caleban.


If you provide supporting evidence you have nothing at all to fear. The reason I cited MH was because he literally ignored everything that was requested of him. As for working both ways, absolutely.

Zep Tepi wrote:Drat, he's only gone and caught us. Run!


:shock: Now yer talking! Seems I was just thinking the other day how this 'feud; between ATS, RU and OM 'might' just be a game to keep the drama alive...


I wouldn't say there is a feud between any of the forums, but it can't be denied there are many differences of opinion between members of all three forums - staff included. I personally have always enjoyed my time at ATS and hopefully always will. I've always got on well with the staff over there, particularly Springer. However, I can't speak for everyone and I know that there are quite a few members here and elsewhere that have had problems at ATS and have wanted somewhere to voice their concerns - hence this section of the forum.

One of the reasons I stopped by here after talking to ITF ( and I know he will probably be blasted for thinking of dragging me in here :P) is my concern over certain vanishing threads at ATS. Since I have not talked to Mark yet on this one I will not yet drag it in here... after all that is what got Mark mad at John in the first place (despite what many THINK is the reason)

The original thing that got me (keeping this on topic) is a post I saw at OM... namely this one...

Re: Mars anomalies
« Reply #15 on Jan 9, 2007, 1:08pm »
Simon Grey (one of the 3 ATS owners) posted today at RU.

"Of course ATS is a destination for serious discussion, evidence of that can be seen in that we have collaborated with NASA as one example on clarifying confusion surrounding images of Mars."

I wonder what Clark McClelland a retired senior NASA official here would say about ATS' investigative prudence in collaborating with NASA for "clarifying confusion surrounding images of Mars"?

Considering what I do... naturally this comment was of concern to me... and naturally, IF ATS was indeed 'collaborating' with NASA... well it would probably not be the best site for me to do all that work on...

Now I have since seen the link at ATS where the NASA 'kudos' came from... but have not seen the post in its original context here at RU... which is what I came for... looking for the truth of things..


That thread was moved into a private section of the forum but should still be on the site. I'll have a look for the post in question and get back to you.

Now as to the John and Zorgon bashing fest... may I suggest a separate thread :P Then we can keep it 'on topic'


I agree.

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Chorlton » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:39 am

Zorgon wrote:
Zep Tepi wrote:When certain members then choose to ignore these counter arguments, they are banned - much like what happened to Michael Horn and certain other promoters of nonsense.

Those like Chorlton (who totally missed the SEPTIC not SCEPTIC remark in his comments about spelling :P ) scream foul at everything we say, but never actually look at the evidence... I guess the tactic is 'can't refute the official document so attack the poster'


Firstly, who 'we' Tonto ? Is that the Royal 'we'?, the Lear and zorgon 'we'?, or you and your worshipping disciples 'we' ?
Secondly, please provide proof that I 'never actually look at the evidence' or retract the lie. You are constantly harping on about people not reading your references and links as if there was some obligation to do so.
Simply because I choose to read and ignore something you use as a reference is no reason for stating I dont read it. Your problem is you use the tiniest of connective evidence to back up some of your mad theories, sometimes entire pages of links and references many of which merely mention in passing something you have used as so-called concrete evidence. It seems that on everything you post, you post lines and lines of the most flimsiest of connective evidence in the hope that it will impress and support your sometimes (see I said sometimes) crackpot theories.
And for a lot of what you post, there simply is no evidence to contradict it, the same as if someone says "Ive got a photo of a genuine UFO" there is little to contradict it. Take your and Lears rants on Aristarchus, and your alleged 'reactor' its totally hilarious, you provide no evidence, other than doctored images or images taken at varying degrees of the sun angle yet your rabid rants about it being a reactor never seems to stop.
You really need to step back and take a look at what you post sometimes, it might surprise you. You also seem to base a big importance on the support you think you have on ATS. Have you ever taken a moment to consider they might all be as mistaken as you?

Now as to the John and Zorgon bashing fest... may I suggest a separate thread Then we can keep it 'on topic'


Wouldnt you just love that? make you feel important would it?. IMHO you simply arent that important
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zorgon » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:01 pm

Chorlton wrote:IHaving those two on this forum sends the wrong messages out to people.


And what would that message be? "Only people with the RIGHT viewpoint are welcome here" whatever that "right' viewpoint might be?

unless its banished to the latrine.


Well ATS has 'skunkworks', I guess the latrine is okay... many a great thinker came up with a great idea sitting on the 'throne' :P

Chorlton wrote:"If only you could have said that to John Lear about his theories, you'd still be posting on ATS.
S..." Whooops !! I upset their cashcow.


It seems you missed the point of that comment entirely

Firstly, who 'we' Tonto ? Is that the Royal 'we'?,


Aye that be the Royal "We" old habits are hard to break, as I am sure you are aware of ;)

:roll:

provide proof that I 'never actually look at the evidence' or retract the lie


Retracted... as I have no way to prove it... but reserve an expression of shock that you actually did

..you also seem to base a big importance on the support you think you have on ATS. Have you ever taken a moment to consider they might all be as mistaken as you?
<snip>
or you and your worshipping disciples


Think I have? Hmmm I must be delusional as you say because I could have sworn I had 'worshipping disciples' You know you are starting to trip over your own ego here... I have met some fine people at ATS... on both sides of the fence... and a few well... you get the picture...

You know I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on forums... done a survey of those 'silent watchers' who are to 'shy' to post anything to contribute simple because they are afraid of the barage of insults they must face for simply having an unpopular idea...

The results might be surprising... I would gladly offer up my U2U list... except that would be a breach of confidence. ;) But I know posts would increase on any board
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby ryguy » Wed May 07, 2008 2:33 pm

Zorgon wrote:And what would that message be? "Only people with the RIGHT viewpoint are welcome here" whatever that "right' viewpoint might be?


The only "right" viewpoint is to use your brain. If you don't, then yes, you're going to be set straight. Most people can't handle constructive criticism - so they go off and whine to their friends about how harsh it is here. These are also people who could hardly survive the peer review process of the scientific community.

You know I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on forums... done a survey of those 'silent watchers' who are to 'shy' to post anything to contribute simple because they are afraid of the barage of insults they must face for simply having an unpopular idea...


unpopular - or poorly thought out? If someone has an idea that is based in logic and reason, and they've carefully researched and thought out - they will have no fear here at RU. But yes - there are many folks out there who believe they are taking the "path less travelled", while in reality they are simply on a path that was created by manipulative con-artists so that they will get lost, confused, and devoured.

And we've developed a very good eye for recognizing those con-artists, btw...

The results might be surprising... I would gladly offer up my U2U list... except that would be a breach of confidence. ;) But I know posts would increase on any board


What was that you were saying about ego?

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