The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Access Denied » Sun May 11, 2008 3:55 pm

Funny, no reponse. :roll:

They say “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” and given the following thread Bill started on ATS I think we should be proud…

The ATS Issues Thread

However is this truly a step in the right direction or just more of the same? In the spirit of the title of this thread I present the following quotes from Bill and will let the reader decide…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4313513

First up is this one which I suspect Chorlton will find amusing…

“It always amazes me that people anticipate getting banned for stuff like this.”

Help us out here Chorlton, I’m confused… were you banned for the 17 complaints about your “posting style” as claimed by SO or for refusing to cave in to Springer’s demand to stop complaining about Lear?

Next up we have this gem where despite the repeated denials that Lear was getting special treatment and being allowed to break the T&C, SO now admits ATS was actively promoting Lear’s BS…

“We've defended his forum here, spent money with our PR agency to promote him, gave him significant time in our podcasts, and much more.”

And then finally we have this…

“Members who receive a post-ban have an open door to discuss their status and work things out behind the scenes.”

Torbjon?

Oh, and they reinstituted the anonymous posting feature too… for all the brave folks willing to stand up and be counted. =D>
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Chorlton » Sun May 11, 2008 5:16 pm

Access Denied wrote:Help us out here Chorlton, I’m confused… were you banned for the 17 complaints about your “posting style” as claimed by SO or for refusing to cave in to Springer’s demand to stop complaining about Lear?


I think Springer booted me for the post in the Element 115 where I made him look an utter prat and was backed up by everyone. He never got over it as he though he was oh so right.
But thats the problem there, 17 complaints from how many people? 3 or 4? and I suspect many of those complaints were from the thread about the supposed UFO's over Staffordshire which I stated were Chines lanterns.
I was ridiculed by everyone but then the people who sent the lanterns up owned up to it and the prats on ATS just didnt know where to put their embarassment. They showed their stupidity by ridiculing my Lantern suggestions despite me have seen probably thousands of the things over the last 40 years.

As I said, 17 complaints but by how many people? and I still say more people supported my style than the weiners that complained.

Springer and some of his 'Mad Mods' are ATS's biggest liability. Springers mouth and attitude loses more people than it gains, and it must be so uncomfortable for the poor boy, walking around with his foot in his mouth all the time.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby torbjon » Mon May 12, 2008 7:27 am

So let me get this straight:

They started an "issues" thread over there to deal with soon to be disgruntled ex ats members, is that it?

Just one little thread, not an actual forum or work group... a thread.

ON ats...

Not an independent third party group.... ON ats. I see.

Isn't that kind of like the automobile manufactures saying "oh ya, we tested this model, it's safe, really, Trust Us... that'll be sixty-eight thousand seven hundred and ninety-nine dollars please... After factory rebate."

mmph.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Shawnna » Mon May 12, 2008 7:44 am

torbjon wrote:So let me get this straight:

They started an "issues" thread over there to deal with soon to be disgruntled ex ats members, is that it?

Just one little thread, not an actual forum or work group... a thread.

ON ats...

Not an independent third party group.... ON ats. I see.

Isn't that kind of like the automobile manufactures saying "oh ya, we tested this model, it's safe, really, Trust Us... that'll be sixty-eight thousand seven hundred and ninety-nine dollars please... After factory rebate."

mmph.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Access Denied » Tue May 13, 2008 3:20 am

But wait, there’s more! It get’s better…

Cointel Pro within ATS?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4322650

roadgravel wrote:
SkepticOverlord wrote:
SUNRAY06 wrote:For those of you with time and inclination unless you have access to the IP logs or the server side logs of the people who connect and post here how are you going to know for sure.

We don't keep such logs, and haven't for over three years.

No server logs for the web server? Is it in a database instead? How could an IP ban be performed without knowledge from the connection? Something is being recorded even if for trouble shooting, isn't it.

It was good to see the original question posed answered with a 'NO' from an owner.

Of course no answer.

This was followed later in the thread by this post expressing what I thought were some fairly reasonable concerns. Obviously I don’t agree with all of them but I can certainly understand why some folks would think that way from their POV given some of the hanky panky going on so here are a few excerpts…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4324409

indierockalien wrote:Now, Skeptic, why all the guilt tripping?

The OP is asking a common sensical question.

[snip]

- the outrageous amounts of slander that goes on towards innocent members... not the average joe that posts a comment here and there... but the real heavyweights with good info or a story that really makes you think. I've noticed that the real outspoken people on here seem to be/have been bullied by certain mods with ridiculous warns and penalties for piddly things, and have been the target for unfettered trashtalking, like the mods and admins decide who they are going to defend and who they are going to try to make uncomfortable.

- I'm u2u banned, for example... I know what I was banned for, but I noticed that I didn't get banned for it until about two weeks after I had sent what I thought was a private message to another member, expressing my growing distaste for some of the things I've noticed around here and where I've been since I haven't been here as much. This says to me that A) your u2us are perfectly private until you irritate one of the mods/admins, and that B) they will search for something to ban you from for whatever reason they can find.

Shortly after this (after another post from the above poster is deleted)… THREAD LOCK with the following from Mark…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4324877

Springer wrote:As is usually the case with these type of drama bombs, the previously banned and disgruntled will pop in with that "other account" they set up to spew bunk.

The author of this utterly false, and deleted, post is such a "person".

Thankfully, the almighty IP checker never fails to root them out.

Since this "thread" has devolved into nothing more than a rant by a handful of illogical, concrete thinkers against the people who bring you the best site of its kind online and since every possible honest answer has been given (again and again and again) it's now CLOSED.

So much for that non-existent IP logging capability eh Mark?

Mark then posts this after several mods post their opinion after the thread is closed…

Springer wrote:
Discussion Shift

The discussion is shifting to the permanent ATS Issues Thread which will now the the single-source for these types of questions from this point forward.

Nice “save”. :roll:

Anyway, looks like "skeptics" aren't the only ones wondering WTF the game is...
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Tue May 13, 2008 3:36 am

I'm not positive, but I am pretty damned sure that the above has just shown ATS hypocrisy. I usually know it when I smell it, but I sure do know it when I read it! :)

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Access Denied » Tue May 13, 2008 7:16 am

Yeah well as if we needed yet another example…

Hypocrisy is one thing... we all can be guilty of it without even knowing it. At the risk of repeating of myself it’s the blatant lies and censorship that concern me… from there I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe the considerable circumstantial evidence that suggests they have been creating and perpetrating hoaxes for fun and profit or worse… willingly and knowingly advancing the agendas of various subversive groups.

Sometimes I wish I didn't care, certainly it would be easier had I never seen it for myself and could claim ignorance...
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Chorlton » Tue May 13, 2008 8:24 am

I had a problem with some mods from day one.
There was a poster there called 'cleverone' ( a misnomer if ever there was one) When I arrived on ATS he wasnt a mod and took several nasty and rather uneducated swipes at me, mainly about my claim of chinese lanterns being responsible for several UK sightings. In fact in many threads I had looked at where he had posted, his ignorance and unwillingness to look at any other option other than his own was rather alarming.
Then he was made a mod. He immediatley took to warning me and harassing me and in one case sent me a warning for something I didnt even post.
Ive always suspected ATS looked at private U2U's and one of the posts above backs that up, despite Septics denial, though if you look at Septics response to my question he didnt actually deny it.

As I stated on another thread. One of the biggest problems for ATS is Springer, without him and his self created cult, the site would run far smoother.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby MrPenny » Tue May 13, 2008 12:20 pm

Chorlton wrote:As I stated on another thread. One of the biggest problems for ATS is Springer, without him and his self created cult, the site would run far smoother.


I once bluntly asked him in a forum if he was following my posts around...simply so he could jump on each one. Immediately afterward....the moderator "Majic" announced he had been "assigned" to the forum.....I thought it was an odd coincidence. This was just after I had been "post banned" for a few days, without notice. I cut and pasted a large chunk of a wikipedia entry on Internet trolls that fit John Lear's tactics like a custom glove. Must have hit a little close to home. I had to get another moderator to remove the ban....after he expressed some interesting opinions about John Lear.

I find it useful to tell myself....the ATS moderators, not all of them, have a tendency to moderator the contributor, less than the thread content itself.
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Shawnna » Wed May 14, 2008 1:10 am

Wow.....

just wow......
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby torbjon » Wed May 14, 2008 8:06 pm

I'm way stretched for time and have been sacrificing sleep to keep up so I'm kind of out it now, sorry... however I "feel" that now would be a good time to do a write up on the stuff in just this thread... not a cut and paste job but a paper with quotes and links to sources.... you know the type...

I sooo want to do one in my 'long winded' style but can't make my eyes focus...

Anyone up for that or do folks just want to wait 'till I can get my act together?

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Shawnna » Wed May 14, 2008 8:56 pm

I am beyond swamped with work and family stuff at the moment. Have some outstanding stuff due to Zep too sooooo...

I'm content to wait for you TWJ - you'll do a great job too!
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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed May 14, 2008 10:45 pm

I agree with Shawnna. Get some sleep (if at all possible!) and tackle it when fully charged.
I for one will look forward to it :)

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby ryguy » Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm

Torb,

If you need it to be edited/polished up before publication, I'd be willing to help you out.

Looking forward to reading it.

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Re: The Biggest Lie from Septic Overlord and ATS

Postby Access Denied » Tue May 20, 2008 6:47 am

Some more stuff from the “ATS Issues” thread that may be relevant to what you’re working on TJ…

SO decided to answer the question “roadgravel” asked that I mentioned earlier with this post here…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4330416

SkepticOverlord wrote:An important question was overlooked in the now-closed thread, posted by "roadgravel" here…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4322650

roadgravel wrote:No server logs for the web server? Is it in a database instead? How could an IP ban be performed without knowledge from the connection? Something is being recorded even if for trouble shooting, isn't it.

No, no access logs in the database either.

When I say "server logs," I'm referring to the data recorded by the web server software (Apache in this case) for each single access by a user. Typically, the logs record IP address and each asset (graphic, page, file, etc.) accessed by the user, along with other details such as browser, operating system, referring website, etc. In some cases, if a government agency is interested in a particular user, the server logs can reveal a great deal of information... so it's nice that we decided that, "for overall server performance reasons," we don't want to enabling the logging feature of the web server.


We can restrict specific IP's from accessing the board because a user's IP address is associated with their post... but that's the only time an IP is retained.

“Assets”?

Then “roadgravel” politely asks for further clarification …

SkepticOverlord wrote:
roadgravel wrote:I was curious since there is mention of various know IP ranges linked government networks, etc being seen in reads against various threads. Without logs and the lack of a post to a thread, how would that be known?

If you look at the source-code of our HTML, you'll notice a bit of JavaScript for Google Analytics (Urchin) at the bottom of each page. Third-party analytics packages like that (HitBox, Omniture, etc.) can gather aggregate data without the need to retain logs.

OK so they don’t retain it… someone else does. And the difference is??? Why not just say that in the first place? Now who’s creating unnecessary drama?

Our boy Zorgon then asks...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4354629

Djarums wrote:
zorgon wrote:So I guess this is an admission that you do filter the site in question

Yes, that's correct. To partake in "full disclosure" I will inform you that numerous requests were made for certain people not to use our chat room and forum as a recruiting tool (as clearly stated in our T&C) and those requests were completely disregarded. A simple script was put into place to remove the URL to the site that was being recruited for and it was replaced with a blank space.

There are numerous sites that are allowed to be advertised here, in signatures, in posts etc. We ask that people do it the right way.

If you have any other questions, please just ask and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.

Not sure what site they're talking about here, I'm guessing OM?

Zorgon then gives a shout out to RU…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4356311

zorgon wrote:
PistolPete wrote:If it weren't for members providing incredible content The Amigo's wouldn't be rubbing elbows with celebrities, wouldn't have an entity to even organize as a business and sooner or later possibly reap quite nice profits from.

Precisely... hence my 'concerns' I have spent a lot of hours providing 'content' that I assumed was of value... and also promote ATS on my own site on many pages including the front page... all for free and glad to do it...

Now lately I have seen issues presented not only by those banned with a grudge, posting on Reality Uncovered, but by many good members... The post that was deleted of mine was when I simply asked why a celebrity stating an eyewitness report of a UFO sighting make front page news, while anyone else stating a 'story' with no backup is ridiculed..

I had naturally hoped that it wasn't the obvious... a simple ploy to drive viewers to ATS... but as you say it IS a private business

But what even started me on this questioning was a post made on Open Mind forum...

Re: Mars anomalies
« Reply #15 on Jan 9, 2007, 1:08pm »
Simon Grey (one of the 3 ATS owners) posted today at RU.

"Of course ATS is a destination for serious discussion, evidence of that can be seen in that we have collaborated with NASA as one example on clarifying confusion surrounding images of Mars."

Considering my 'field' of research here, it's not hard to understand why that would concern me, especially since in the John Lear Moon Thread I had received an email from a JSC.NASA address commenting on my website... and a few weeks later some Apollo .tiff images on a JSC directory were pulled while we were in the middle of discussing them im the thread

I went to RU to see if this was true ( I actually was invited to go over there, kinda like walking into the lions den...)

I was told by one of the mods. that yes the post was there but had been moved to a private area... and he would see if he could get it for me...

Well I was 'locked out' within 72 hours (apparently because they did not believe it was me )

Point is I never got to the bottom of that post that seems to have opened a real can of worms.. and I won't now as I have again been blocked from RU...

Seems that some don't like my kind over there

So I guess a direct question is in order... Was that statement by Simon Grey posted? And if so could you please explain what was meant by "we have collaborated with NASA" so that I can be sure its not out of context
Edit to add...

I am assuming that the AccessDenied in this thread is a different one than my errr... nemesis?


Strange that... and confusing

The AccessDenied (without a space) then responds that I (Access Denied with a space) is in fact gone (so why not use my name eh?) and then this is followed later by this reassuring message from Bill…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4357728

SkepticOverlord wrote:Some Posts Were Removed

This thread is about issues directly related to member experiences on ATS, or questions regarding the operation of ATS... not issues ATS members may (or may not) have had as members of other sites.

This is then followed by this “The Truth According to Bill” megapost…

[this after stating that the numerous folks reporting private messages marked as read before they read them was attributable to a bug in the code that's been there for years and he hasn't been able to find]

The Definitive ATS Issues Post
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4358947

SkepticOverlord wrote:We Do Not Monitor Private U2U Messages

Some people have made the errant assumption, based on a variety of reasons, that we routinely look at the private U2U messages of our members. The fact is, nearly all "off the shelf" forum systems grant administrators the capability to review all private messages of any user, on demand. In fact, we include this message below the form to create a U2U here on ATS: Please Note: Your U2U communications are subject to review in the event we receive reports of private communications outside the boundaries of the site Terms & Conditions. Abusive private messages may result in immediate account termination.

However; how many forums, boards, or other user-generated content venues have a privacy policy as clear-cut as ours? In fact, it has contained wording on this very issue for some time: Members are provided with a private messaging system (U2U service) as part of their account privileges. Every reasonable effort is made to ensure the private messaging system is maintained in a secure fashion so as to ensure the privacy of any and all messages sent between members. Staff and/or owners will not observe the content or flow of any private messaging unless explicit reports of Terms & Conditions violations are received. The private messages may be subject to run-time content filtering (such as vulgarities) that is used to filter the content of thread posts.

Whenever this issue comes up, I urge those who believe we're doing anything that is contrary to our privacy policy (including the review of private U2U's) to take the steps to report us to the appropriate parties (in the U.S., it would be your state's Attorney General). It is rather serious for a website hosted in the U.S. to engage in activity that conflicts with their publicly posted privacy policy.

Amazing! Translation: We don’t monitor them routinely but we do monitor them if we think you might have something against ATS… after all we’ve got a cult… err I mean a business to run here?! Everybody clear on that now?

Another poster responds to the above with this…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4359011

endrun wrote:With reference to the above post about banning:
Question for you, SO: What about the folks over at A.K. who say they were banned for no violations, and never received a warning or a notice that they had been banned? There must be at least 75 people or more who are making this claim. I can see where 1 or 2 people might be cranks, but 75 or so?
Can you please clear this up? I am confused. I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm just curious and confused. Nor do I believe you are COINTELPRO.

Anybody know what site this person is talking about? Did somebody start the revolution without us? :lol:
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