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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby ryguy » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:03 pm

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:

You were proven wrong about that, why do you persist?


Simon over at ATS in the thread Shawnna linked to above:

I created the Majestic-Alliance website as a "fan site" years ago because I was intrigued by the whole concept EA was taking. Obviously it didn't pan out very well, and my interest quickly faded too.

I received nothing from EA, nor was the Majestic-Alliance.com website endorsed by them, as the site was something of my own undertaking and I created it with the intention of providing a place (discussion forums) for players of the game to meet up and discuss how it's all going.

This was before the good ol' Overlord took over I.T. operations which is why he has no clue what you are talking about.


As to your comment above that Shawnna was proven wrong on that point, could you provide a link or show where she was proven wrong? At the worst, her wording is just off - replace "game" with "fan site" and it's a statement even confirmed by Simon himself.

His description of the EA game:

I didn't think it was controversial. Not sure why it would get that kind of description.

It wasn't a typical PC game, and it's no longer around. Unfortunately, the game was halted after 9/11 and the user base didn't reach the levels anticipated.

The game involved real-world interaction over telephone, IM and the player visiting websites trying to solve a conspiracy surrounding a Shadow Government.


From the external source provided on that thread:

...Among the many ethical ambiguities implied by the very premise of the game is its use of real and fake web sites to promote real and hoax news stories. The game designers have gone so far as to create front companies for several of these web sites. They are actively urging fans of the game to create web sites to act as fronts for the game.


Sounds like a "fan site" for the game to me...of course the fan site would apparently be part of the game...lol

Simon's explanation was decent though, soo...

I bet there's loads of things in the history of ATS's evolution I can't even remember which will be brought up in future by hard-researching ATS members. In most cases it brings a smile to my face and a bit of nostalgia, in this instance I did have a chuckle at first remembering when I went to Yahoo and bought the www.majestic-alliance.com domain. But then ignorance and paranoia dug it's way in somehow.

No offense to SkepticOverlord who I now consider once of my best friends, but you do realise he didn't create this website? He wasn't involved in it's creation and it wasn't until a few years back I partnered up with him to improve our computing infrastructure as ATS was struggling to survive it's own popularity and I didn't have the I.T. knowledge or skills to keep it up-and-running?

That's why he didn't know about it. Not to mention the Majestic-Alliance website was a personal thing I decided to do (probably one weekend) but abandoned because I couldn't be bothered. Simple as that.


I don't know - I never connected his Majestic work with ATS, but I can't see any reason to take the hypothesis off the table, because it was, after all, part of the history of one of the three owners of ATS. That history is fairly important in understanding how and why all future websites run by that person are operated the way they are.

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Shawnna » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:59 pm

I noticed the OP of the ATS thread had my original .pdf of that thread hosted on what use to be my comcast.net library (which goes nowhere now) so I've archived it again in .pdf format with page 1 here and page 2 here.

And I appreciate Ryan's response to SO/Bill - saved me the trouble.

:P

I would also suggest for anyone who isn't familiar with these type of ARG's to visit some of the links "elfis" - the original OP of that the ATS History thread - provided. It's a fascinating look into what I consider to be a very dark world that is ripe for disinformation campaigns as the overall objective is to blur the lines of reality for those involved.

In any event, I think understanding the original motivations behind ATS owner's is very powerful in understanding why ATS has changed their philosophy when it comes to hoaxes.

I, for one, will continue to think about how I would respond to the potential financial windfall if it meant giving up or relaxing in any way my commitment to truth with supporting factual evidence and commentary.

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Springer » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:43 pm

Am I the only person who thinks it's absolutely ludicrous to assign any serious weight or concern to what a person (Simon) did when they were 19 years old and a gamer? [smilie=to funny.gif]

You honestly believe that Simon had nefarious intentions or even knew what "disinfo" was at NINETEEN because he saw, what he thought was a cool game and tried to get involved over the course of a weekend, with a fan site and ultimately blew it off (like most 19 year olds would) when it didn't take off?!

That's the kind of paranoid thinking that leads people into believing Kit Green has ANYTHING to do with the management of ATS, he does NOT.

Wow, this is getting comical, more so by the minute.

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:51 pm

Springer wrote:You honestly believe that Simon had nefarious intentions or even knew what "disinfo" was at NINETEEN because he saw, what he thought was a cool game and tried to get involved over the course of a weekend, with a fan site and ultimately blew it off (like most 19 year olds would) when it didn't take off?!

That's the kind of paranoid thinking that leads people into believing Kit Green has ANYTHING to do with the management of ATS, he does NOT.

Wow, this is getting comical, more so by the minute.


What I find comical is that you appear to be wishing to denigrate (or at least dismiss) people based on age alone. When I was 19 I already had my pilot's license. I was already in college to get my aerospace engineering degree. And as to nefarious intentions, somehow I do not see an age restriction in people making decisions to rob, steal, cheat, or otherwise take advantage of other people.

In the spirit of RU, I would like to see your evidence, Mr. Springer, that allows you to come to the conclusion that just because someone was 19 and a gamer means they did not have (or could not have) nefarious intent.

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Shawnna » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:10 pm

Springer wrote:Am I the only person who thinks it's absolutely ludicrous to assign any serious weight or concern to what a person (Simon) did when they were 19 years old and a gamer? [smilie=to funny.gif]

You honestly believe that Simon had nefarious intentions or even knew what "disinfo" was at NINETEEN because he saw, what he thought was a cool game and tried to get involved over the course of a weekend, with a fan site and ultimately blew it off (like most 19 year olds would) when it didn't take off?!

That's the kind of paranoid thinking that leads people into believing Kit Green has ANYTHING to do with the management of ATS, he does NOT.

Wow, this is getting comical, more so by the minute.

Springer...


No Mark - this is not about what a 19 year old did when they were 19. Nor is it about whether or not Simon had any conscious or unconscious nefarious intentions.

:roll:

What it is about is whether or not there is a fundamental commitment on the part of the ATS founders to stick with what most of us thought was ATS's lack of tolerance for anything that even remotely smelled of hoax.

My sense is that without that fundamental commitment, the organization is ripe for those who have access to funds and are willing to use them to promulgate their agenda.
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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Shawnna » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:31 pm

Springer wrote:That's the kind of paranoid thinking that leads people into believing Kit Green has ANYTHING to do with the management of ATS, he does NOT.

Wow, this is getting comical, more so by the minute.

Springer...


And what would be very helpful, Mark, is to get more detail on who is involved in the "private investment group" that gave ATS the six figure financial windfall in 2007. Would you be willing to share the details with all of us so we can put to rest any speculation about Kit Green's involvement with ATS?
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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby torbjon » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:47 pm

Shawnna wrote:And what would be very helpful, Mark, is to get more detail on who is involved in the "private investment group" that gave ATS the six figure financial windfall in 2007. Would you be willing to share the details with all of us so we can put to rest any speculation about Kit Green's involvement with ATS?


Ya, I've been curious about that one as well. ATS is not an NPO, their investors are expecting to earn a profit, undoubtedly there is some sort of contractual agreement between investors and the Amigos (which probably states that the investors will remain anonymous)

I suspect the Time/Warner family of companies but it's only a feeling, I have NO EVIDENCE to support that feeling. I've done a lot of business with T/W over the past few years and they are the one 'company' I am aware of that is truly diversified enough to fully embrace the full spectrum multi media outlet ATS is moving towards...

But it could just as easily be some ATS member who won the lottery giving them the money, ya know?
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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby ryguy » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:11 pm

Asking Mark to cough up the names of his investors is like asking Hal Puthoff to share the names of his investors. It ain't gonna happen. lol

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Shawnna » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:48 pm

You may be right Ry.

From where I sit, it never hurts to ask.

:wink:
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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Springer » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:40 am

ryguy wrote:Asking Mark to cough up the names of his investors is like asking Hal Puthoff to share the names of his investors. It ain't gonna happen. lol

-Ry

While I won't give you their names, since there is ZERO reason to and they have asked for privacy for the exact opposite reason you all think (they don't want to be embarrassed by association to the fringe) , I will tell you they are accountants and NOT involved in ANY of this (ufology/memes, etc...) in ANY way and don't care a whit about anything other than a return on their investment. They would no more seek to control content than cut their own heads off!

These are personal friends one of whom was once a member here. I think you guys made him a staffer at one point. :lol:

Edit to add: Kit Green (or anyone he knows) is NOT, I repeat NOT, an Investor, Kit has not put ONE THIN DIME into our company. Kit has ZERO influence on the content of the site or ANY decision we make.

PLEASE, our investors are regular "Joes" just like us... It's funny to imagine otherwise. WHY would ANYONE care what a bunch of NORMAL people think about these topics?! Seriously..

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby ryguy » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:03 am

Springer wrote:Edit to add: Kit Green (or anyone he knows) is NOT, I repeat NOT, an Investor, Kit has not put ONE THIN DIME into our company. Kit has ZERO influence on the content of the site or ANY decision we make.


Kit influences everyone he comes across, one way or another, whether they realize it or not. Most people do not. Kit is a very intelligent, creative, and very resourceful man. I've never met anyone who with his level of genius regarding other people's character and behavior, and with such a comprehensive knowledge of the science and art of deception.

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Shawnna » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:09 pm

Yes indeed, Ry.

And frankly, Mark is a perfect example of the kind of individual (not too bright, huge ego) that Kit can easily manipulate into believing whatever he wants.

:P
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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Springer » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:17 am

WOW Shawna, your paranoid ignorance is second only to your ability to make totally ridiculous assumptions. :lol:

While I admit I am not the "brightest guy on Earth", heck, I've only been able to work for my self and build successful businesses my whole career and have failed miserably at achieving the "glory of brightness" being a collections telemarketer brings, like some I know, but I still have to explain to you that you are ALL WET my dearest.

You see in order for Kit to have the ability to manipulate me Kit and I would have to have discussions about that which he seeks to manipulate. Sadly, for your and Ryan's theory, Kit and I have never once discussed the content of ATS or the management of ATS.

Unless of course one believes in some otherworldly ability at deception and manipulation that is. Which evidently you do... There never has been an opportunity for Kit to manipulate a dam thing! :lol: :lol:

DO take care and keep on with your paranoid reality... it will keep you safe from life. ;)

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby ryguy » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:23 am

Springer wrote:You see in order for Kit to have the ability to manipulate me Kit and I would have to have discussions about that which he seeks to manipulate. Sadly, for your and Ryan's theory, Kit and I have never once discussed the content of ATS or the management of ATS.


I don't really have an interest in getting into an all-out battle regarding what discussions were held and what the content was, but you have to keep in mind, Mark, that Kit has always had a penchant for bcc'ing people on conversations he has with others. So, just be careful before you start making such definitive statements unless you're absolutely certain it won't come back to bite you.

I'm not going to really keep going down this topic - there are better things to do right now. But I don't appreciate inaccurate statements being left printed around here either.

-Ry
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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Chorlton » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:20 am

Springer wrote:WOW Shawna, your paranoid ignorance is second only to your ability to make totally ridiculous assumptions. :lol:

While I admit I am not the "brightest guy on Earth", heck, I've only been able to work for my self and build successful businesses my whole career and have failed miserably at achieving the "glory of brightness" being a collections telemarketer brings, like some I know, but I still have to explain to you that you are ALL WET my dearest.

You see in order for Kit to have the ability to manipulate me Kit and I would have to have discussions about that which he seeks to manipulate. Sadly, for your and Ryan's theory, Kit and I have never once discussed the content of ATS or the management of ATS.

Unless of course one believes in some otherworldly ability at deception and manipulation that is. Which evidently you do... There never has been an opportunity for Kit to manipulate a dam thing! :lol: :lol:

DO take care and keep on with your paranoid reality... it will keep you safe from life. ;)

Springer...


This post would get you banned from ATS, why do you use dual standards?, You act like one person on ATS and another here. You are duplicitous and are now seen to be demanding standards from people that you yourself wont use. You have now shown your true colours. Welcome to the Pack
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