ATS Banning Practices?

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Update

Postby Jack'sDead » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:15 am

I have just received a response from ATS stating that this matter will be looked into.

I will be sure to share the resolution on the matter here.
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Re: Update

Postby Chorlton » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:47 am

Jack'sDead wrote:I have just received a response from ATS stating that this matter will be looked into.
I will be sure to share the resolution on the matter here.


That last statement will surely mean you will be banned again?. They simply dont like anyone from here posting there at the same time
They really are like a bunch of old women over there arent they?
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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby Jack'sDead » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:53 am

As of now it appears that they are willing to reinstate my account to active status, so long as I submit a formal apology for a particular post. The post in question was indeed a bit too threatening to be allowed, especially if taken literally. Which I did not add any sort of disclaimer to point out that it was not meant literally, and that I was merely trying to make an example, albeit an emotionally charged one. I should have known enough to not post in haste, and to be more articulate.

In the future, I will be sure to refrain from posting something that might be taken as a legitimate violent or terroristic threat.

I still think the "instant ban" was a bit extreme, but I don't run the site, so I have no idea how they prioritize matters. I think that perhaps a temporary posting ban and an email may have sufficed. After all, I didn't even know I had been banned until someone else told me. I couldn't even log on.

Well, we'll just have to see what happens now I suppose. I have not yet submitted my apology, but I hope to tomorrow.
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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby torbjon » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:03 am

Interesting...

The concept of an 'apology' seems... somehow wrong to me. Regardless of what went down that strikes me as Parent Scolding Child, ya know? Eat Crow, Rub Your Nose In It, I'm Bigger Than You Are, etc.

Explain the situation, request confirmation that the situation has been fully comprehended, move along.

What EXACTLY does a "formal apology" achieve other than to degrade and belittle?

They say "hey, you broke a T&C when you posted that you were going to rip that guys head off and skull F him, that's a no no"

You say "oh ya, that's right, we can't do that here, huh? Okay, I got it now. Thanks. Won't happen again boss. Have a nice day and thanks for bringing that to my attention, later"

I know no one is going to get where I'm coming from and my attitude just makes me into an even bigger 'kill ats' whacko, *sighs*, but really... an Apology?? For what, being Human? For breaking a T&C?? For speaking from the heart and not the head???

Sorry Jack, my heads in more of a psychological / mind control phase than a nuts and bolts area right now...

I agree with you that in THIS case an in your face Warning with (perhaps) a temporary post ban would probably have "taught you the lesson" of... what are your words?... here they are "to not post in haste, and to be more articulate."

Instantly axing you did Not teach you that lesson... it Forced you to come here and air your grievances... Something I would think they would like to avoid, actually... and, um, 'strongly requesting' an Apology... well... just out of curiosity how does that make you feel? What do you think you'll learn or gain from playing the "you are right I am wrong" game?

For the RECORD I am NOT advocating that you do or don't, okay? I personally won't think less of you if you do... 'ell, I just spent the past six hours reading crap over there, a delightfully enjoyable and morbid train wreck, much like re-runs of I Love Lucy, thoroughly entertaining.

See, I'm not big on Apologies unless they are genuine and sincere and from the heart and real and true and honest and alla that rot there, ya know? Way back when I used to work in a fish factory and folks would get whacked, hit, bumped, splashed, sprayed, crushed, cut, poked, and basically made generally uncomfortable on a perpetual basis... And there were two types of people: Those who said "sorry" every time they did it (which was about 100 times an hour) and those that said "oops" every time they did it...

The "sorry" people just ticked me off because they didn't Really mean it, they were just Saying "sorry" because they were Afraid that I would leap across the table and fillet their sorry asses right there on the spot and send their worthless greenhorn carcass down the line with the rest of the meat, ya know?

The "oops" people though, they were Sincere, they were Honest... they actually meant "oops" If they had actually Meant to cut me I'd be in a can now, on some store shelf somewhere, so it was a legitimate and genuine "oops"...

"oops" earned my respect, earned them a beer after work... still good friends with a lot of the "oops" people...

The "sorry" people though.. mmph. Just stay away from canned meat if you can help it comrade.

Good luck with your quest and Thank You for sharing your experiences here... If you opt to go back keep this place in mind on those rainy days when the big kids are being all snooty with their toys..., This is a nice sandbox and there's some good folks here.

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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby ryguy » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:53 pm

Could you imagine calling your ISP after having your email account suspended for sending spam, and they told you that they would UN-suspend your account if you issued a public apology?

Talk about unprofessional ffs.... Oh, speaking of which, I was very surprised to learn that I am not currently stealth-banned from ATS. So that's something. Although my 100 or so U2U's, new as well as old, have all been deleted. Lucky I'd already backed them all up for safekeeping.

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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby Chorlton » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:57 pm

ryguy wrote:Could you imagine calling your ISP after having your email account suspended for sending spam, and they told you that they would UN-suspend your account if you issued a public apology?

Talk about unprofessional ffs.... Oh, speaking of which, I was very surprised to learn that I am not currently stealth-banned from ATS. So that's something. Although my 100 or so U2U's, new as well as old, have all been deleted. Lucky I'd already backed them all up for safekeeping.
-Ry


In my eyes its not just unprofessional, those actions and the actions of the ATS staff sre simply childish.
Bill who professes to have been on the net for sometime, (something which I just cant believe), acts like a total nerd, stuffed shirt etc.
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Another Update

Postby Jack'sDead » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:07 am

As of yet, I have still not received a reply, and my account still cannot be accessed. I was promised that it would be restored by last Wednesday, which was a day or so after I had agreed to write up an apology that could be forwarded to ATS staff. To be honest, I didn't send off the apology until Friday, since it is difficult for me to get online sometimes in my situation. But still, I really did expect my account to be re-activated by now. Or that the whole "formal apology" think might not actually be taken too seriously after some "cool down" time. After all, I had already fully explained the circumstances of the post, and how it had been misinterpreted.
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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby Jack'sDead » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:29 am

torbjon wrote:Interesting...

The concept of an 'apology' seems... somehow wrong to me. Regardless of what went down that strikes me as Parent Scolding Child, ya know? Eat Crow, Rub Your Nose In It, I'm Bigger Than You Are, etc.

Explain the situation, request confirmation that the situation has been fully comprehended, move along.


I agree. But when you're dealing with all sorts of people you don't even know, I suppose one might think that this sort of "scolding" is the route to take.

What EXACTLY does a "formal apology" achieve other than to degrade and belittle?


Well, for some it might actually teach them a lesson I suppose. But for myself, I think the little red "warn" flag would have been embarrassment enough. Then perhaps, there are legal issues to consider, if they thought that I was indeed making a legitimate terroristic threat.

They say "hey, you broke a T&C when you posted that you were going to rip that guys head off and skull F him, that's a no no"

You say "oh ya, that's right, we can't do that here, huh? Okay, I got it now. Thanks. Won't happen again boss. Have a nice day and thanks for bringing that to my attention, later"

I know no one is going to get where I'm coming from and my attitude just makes me into an even bigger 'kill ats' whacko, *sighs*, but really... an Apology?? For what, being Human? For breaking a T&C?? For speaking from the heart and not the head???


Again, I really do see where you are coming from there. I really do think shutting down my account was overkill, especially given my high level of participation over there.

Instantly axing you did Not teach you that lesson... it Forced you to come here and air your grievances... Something I would think they would like to avoid, actually... and, um, 'strongly requesting' an Apology... well... just out of curiosity how does that make you feel? What do you think you'll learn or gain from playing the "you are right I am wrong" game?


Well, right now it feels like my apology was all for nothing perhaps. They were so quick to drop the ban hammer, but are too busy to be bothered with taking care of legitimate business concerns it seems. I think I may have mentioned earlier, about the "crickets" I got when I asked questions about their revamped ATSPremium initiative. I mean really, are they trying to be web-police or to run a business?

See, I'm not big on Apologies unless they are genuine and sincere and from the heart and real and true and honest and alla that rot there, ya know?


I see what you mean about being one of the "sorry" people. I did indeed apologize, but only for what I was in fact sorry for. And that was pretty much not adding a disclaimer to show that I was trying to make an example, that was precisely on-topic, but not issuing a genuine threat as if I were actually going to track down some ATS member.

Good luck with your quest and Thank You for sharing your experiences here... If you opt to go back keep this place in mind on those rainy days when the big kids are being all snooty with their toys..., This is a nice sandbox and there's some good folks here.


I am glad that I decided to stop over here. I have looked at some other interesting material here as well when visiting. I expect that I will probably be contributing more here as the colder weather months start to move in.

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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby torbjon » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:46 am

Jack:

This seems to happen to a lot of people: Quick to ban, slow to un-ban. My first incident like this was a post ban followed by the "just say you've read the T&C and are sorry and all will be cool again" kinda thing.

I jumped through their hoops a couple of times but they never lifted the post ban. A month or so latter I'm chatting on the phone with my then friend and upcoming ATS superstar Dave Rabbit and I tell him about the my little run in with trigger happy mods... Dave tells me he'll talk to Mark (Allin aka Springer) and see what he can do...

Couple of days later I get an email from Dave sayin' he's fixed it, but that I should be cool and he ends with a line something like "remember, a good soldier always leads with the left... hup two three four"... basically meaning Stay In Line Or Else *shrugs*

I laid really low after that, watched my step... good little toady, actually... When I got invited into the PRIVATE Fair Skeptics forum I thought that would be the cats meow.. small group of dudes in a private back room, no open forum BS or Drama to worry about, I could finally be ME again *bursts out laughing!!*

Oh well. This place is pretty cool.

And look at it this way, coming in now like you are, You're in on the ground floor. Stick around for a year or so and post on a more or less regular basis and before you know it, You'll be the "old timer" with god like status *laughs* How long would that take you to get over there?

Same goes for the other 'new' people drifting in... and those less than happy people over at ATS.

If you really want to do some good work or have some good conversations then find a new, smaller board that suits you and just stick with it for a while.

If the work is quality or the conversations are interesting they'll get picked up by the folks who like that sort of thing and distributed around the net, don't need ATS for that...

Besides, the way things are going, folks might not Want their work associated with ATS... that's kind of like being associated with the National Enquirer or some such, ya know?

Sorry they whacked you but glad you are here and chatting.

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Re: Welcome to ATS Watch

Postby Chorlton » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:29 am

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:
Chorlton wrote:Nothing I say to SO is going to alter the state of his mind in relation to the problems I and others see with ATS.

You'll never know unless you try will you.


Going back to my original argument with Septic Overweight on this thread.
I think now, my original statement has been proven, as lots of people have now tried, but you still sit, preening your bald pate, and telling yourself how wonderfull you are. Creating even more devious ways of subverting the truth.

And Springer? not even worth a comment.
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Final Update

Postby Jack'sDead » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:21 pm

While I remain somewhat leary at this point, I am pleased to announce that today my account has finally been restored over there. (ATS member name: jackinthebox.) I did get a "sorry" for the delay along with an explanation that someone was spamming the inbox with the same somewhat generic subject line as my emails.

I also see that my hundreds of saved u2u's have been wiped out. I'm not sure if this means I happened to be one of the "Black Sunday" victims, or if this happened when I was banned. Either way though, it was a waste of thousands of ATS points to expand my u2u quota.

I thank the members here for their input and insights. While I am not rabidly anti-ATS, I will be sure to share any further "incidents" that might occur. I will also be checking in here more often in general, having seen this new venue for "alternate" subject-matter.

Thanks again

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Re: Final Update

Postby mojo » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:26 am

Jack'sDead wrote: Either way though, it was a waste of thousands of ATS points to expand my u2u quota.



Should have saved them for an overseas vacation Jack.

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Banned Again!

Postby Jack'sDead » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:27 am

To be banned without warning twice in less than two months certainly leaves me feeling like there is more to this than keeping an orderly message board. I have not yet received a response from an email to Bill, but I expect I know what my "great offence" was.

After being stalked by a moderator for the past few days, I shot off a private message to her expressing my true sentiments that she is a puckered sphincter, in a word. I have seen people call mods that right in threads without the post or even the word itself being deleted, but now I find myself banned for using the word in a private U2U message.

The "stalking" by the mod amounted to her removing my posts as "off-topic," even though she failed to remove the responses made to what I had posted, and also failed to remove the posts that I was replying to. There was also an edit done in the name of "courtesy" that erased my free expression which had gone right to the core of the matter being discussed. There were a few other posts removed as well, but I can't remember the exact circumstances at the moment. I was also penalized in those fun little ATS "bragging" points.

So in a nutshell, it seems that ATS is not interested in what I have to say and certainly no longer wants me saying it there.
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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby Jack'sDead » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:46 am

I'd just like to add one more tidbit. May be just a coincidence. But both times, and at no other time that I remember, I ran into some technical issues in the days leading up to my banning. This last time I was redirected to a nearly blank page that specified an internal server error. Not the "this page was deleted" sort of thing either (like my thread they deleted on me sometime in the past few days). It started when I tried to "star" a post, and for the rest of the night I had trouble logging back on, posting, etc. Now today I get banned. Were they trying to piss me off yesterday deliberately?

The last time the issues were mostly with the U2U's being deleted, both before the "crash" and apparrently as a result of it aftwerward.
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Re: ATS Banning Practices?

Postby Access Denied » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:27 am

Welcome back Jack. :)

No offense but in your opinion would it be safe to say you may have some issues with people not agreeing with you?

The reason I ask is because I’ve noticed some people seem to get away with it while others don’t. In fact I’ve seen some of the most profile offenders promoted to “Conspiracy Master”. Strange… it’s like anything goes when it comes to “out there” stuff but when things start to get “real” it gets ugly quick. In other words seems it’s cool to be “ignorant” if you’re doing it on purpose to provoke a reaction.

Reminds me of high school…

Anyway, it would be helpful if you posted a link to the thread(s) in question so we can see the context in which things started going downhill for you again.

Also, just curious but any chance you have one or more sock puppets?
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