ATS Hoax Involvement?

[Springer]

Hi Torbjon,

From what I remember, it was the insults directed at Jeff Ritzmann were the final blow. It was a combination of speculation/suggestion that we were somehow hoaxing something that we weren't, combined with the questioning of Ritzmann's schedule that were just not worth the effort.

I mean look at it from our perspective, here we are working our tails off to provide this FREE service, we then go a step further and offer to give you guys a private forum and a bully pulpit from which to do some GOOD WORK. We check in on it and see that a Real Life friend and volunteer expert has been insulted and our integrity is in question... So we asked ourselves why we were doing this extra work, for what? To have our friends insulted and our integrity questioned? We get that for free LOTS of places no need to provide a place for it and pay for it.

We've had so many lunatics (not calling you a lunatic my man) accuse us of so many things it's hard to keep up and at that point we were just worn out by it all and extremely busy with getting the business plan together and entering the venture capital market so we just removed the irritating distractions.

Hope that clears it up a little, it was crappy of us to ignore your emails but we were slammed with work and we were disappointed. I'll apologize for ignoring your emails now though. Sorry.

mark...

[torbjon]

Springer:

Hi comrade, thanks for stopping by. It's nice to chat with you again.

Earlier in this thread TheSkepticOverlord said that ats is still in possession of the FS forum, so there's really no need to 'remember' anything from memory, you have the original data to draw from. All the data that I have at my disposal (which is NOT the entire FS forum) is available here:

http://www.torbtown.com/abovetopsecret.html

As I said to TheSkepticOverlord on the previous page, my Personal feeling for the reasons for my banning and the closure of the FS forum back then was simply a bit of 'gun jumping' on your part... you guys came in, did a Quick Visual Scan (not a full read) saw the buzz words, saw that the buzz words came from a guy that had had a few run ins and post bans in the past, said "to 'ell with this", axed the bozoboy, closed the forum, and then moved on to the next item on your never ending plate of items... Very understandable, Very Human, not very 'deny ignorance' though *shrugs*

I feel that on a certain level that you and TheSkepticOverlord are trying (to some extent) to admit to Human Error on your part, and I appreciate that very much, thank you.

However, in the same vein I also feel that you guys are still trying to make me out to be "the bad guy" or "in the wrong" or in some manner "anti - ats"...

Just as you are 100% aware of your intentions / motives / feelings of that time, I am fully aware of My intentions / motives / feelings of that time, and "attack the hands that feed me" was Not on my agenda.

It was a sad, frustrating, and disappointing event. A lesser person, or someone Truly out to "get you" would have created another user account, stormed into open forum, and "spilled the beans"... I did not. Nor did I make my page of data public for well over a year... That HAS to say something about my "true" intentions of the time, yes?

Earlier TheSkepticOverlord implied that I "made-up" stories... so far no one has taken the time to post one of those "made-up" stories... not Prove that it was made up, just offer it as an example... which is fine but I will always be curious about that...

Above you state that I directed insults towards Jeff Ritzman. This is news to me. Questioning him, yes, directly Insulting him? I'm curious about that. It would be nice if you could provide an example of the insults...

Your opening paragraph above I find quite interesting... to pull a little out of context quoting that seems to be all the rage in forums these days (and apparently forever)

"It was the combination of speculation / suggestion..... combined with questioning... that just wasn't worth the effort"

Wow. I'm sure folks can see now why I don't like to play the out of context quoting game *laughs* That's kind of heavy when you look it that way, ya know?

Following your above post, a side bar on the FREE service line, if I may? I've stated this elsewhere on this forum but just an fyi for you Springer; it isn't "free". You may wish to revise your thinking process regarding that issue. People give you their time, energy, and user generated content, you give them a place to read and post that content. It's an equitable exchange. Everybody is giving, everybody is getting, but there is no "one-way freeness".

Okay, back on track...

You provided a service for some people to do "good work" in...

A look at the data will show that not everything I posted could Ever be construed as an attack upon ats. I spent a lot of time and energy pouring over flight logs / flight delays. I spent a lot of time and energy looking for additional photographic evidence. In fact, I was on my way to FS to post some links to photographs taken in Chicago on that day depicting the actual weather conditions in that area. To my knowledge, at that time, no one else was pursuing that avenue of investigation. (for anyone who is interested, those links may be found on my page, which is linked above) I pointed out how the treatment of certain members who where expressing concerns in open forum was perhaps causing more problems than solving and that revising tactics for dealing with those types of concerns might be prudent...

I feel that anyone who actually takes the time to look at the data will conclude that at least Some of what I was doing Might fall under the "good work" category... but that's just my personal feeling.

Continuing....

You check into the forum and see that a "Real Life" friend and volunteer expert has been insulted....

I'm still curious about the "insults" but for now I feel the need to address the "Real Life friend" comment...

I'm sorry, and perhaps it is just me, but reading that paragraph of yours I get the distinct Feeling that "Real Life" friends are more "important" than "virtual friends" and that "friends" in general are more important than strangers...

As I read that paragraph, the Feeling that I get (and again, perhaps it's just me) is that if it comes down to a choice between a "friend" and a "stranger", ats is going to side with and support the personal "friend" regardless of what the "stranger" has to offer...

I find that concept to be more than a little bothersome... I hope that I am in error about that but currently that is the Feeling that I have and I am unable to shake it... sorry.

I have another side bar about 'friends' but there is one more short item in your post I wish to address before going off on another tangent.

You state that you did indeed get my emails sent via the Official ATS CONTACT US form but chose to ignore them because you were slammed with work and disappointed. Thank you for acknowledging that now and your apology is greatly appreciated. However, I mentioned to TheSkepticOverlord earlier (and will mention to you now) your auto responder states quite clearly that "someone will get back to you within 48 hours". All personal feelings and work responsibilities aside, no one ever got back to me in all the attempts that I made. On a Purely Business level you may wish to revise the wording of your auto responder to something more along the lines of "as soon as possible" to help avoid that type of poor customer service in future events *shrugs*

Now the side bar.

This is very much off topic and I ask for some forgiveness and understanding from the readers and admins of this board, however I feel that I may have your ear here Springer and I'd like to take that opportunity while I still have it.

It has to do with "friends". In a way this is actually a Thank You but it may not read that way so please bear with me...

Months Before FS was even a concept, in the year preceding the events we're discussing here, when Dave Rabbit was still just an "up and coming" person, Dave and I developed a relationship. I won't say "friendship", but a relationship. We did have a nice long talk on the phone once, we exchanged many emails. He cross posted a podcast of mine on his show (Gleeble in Chains), and we seemed to be working towards an honest "friendship" which at that time pleased me to no end. He knew about my life and the problems I'm having with it and offered moral support and advice to me on numerous occasions. There was talk of him interviewing my daughter for his show when she got a little older (Nola loves her 'uncle rabbit') and I still have his email where he told me that something big was coming up next year (last year) and that he would like to collaborate on a project with me....

Then the BS in FS went down and I have Never heard from him again. *sighs* Oh, I sent him a few notes, I told him how I apparently messed up and was on the 'poop list' again, but he never got back... just up and disappeared from my life and Nolas life.

I can't help but wonder if the two events are related. I can't help but wonder if atsmix was the project he was talking about collaborating on. I can't help but wonder if he chose, on his very own, to just throw the bozoboy nobody to the lions in order to take a step up the ladder, or if you had some type of influence on his decision making process... maybe he just completely and totally Forgot who we are, I dunno....

But Regardless of Why he dropped out of our lives, I feel I may have learned something about him as a human being shortly after those events. And even if the two events are Not related in way, shape, or form, I still have to thank you. I know that may seem kind of weird... but it's the way I am. For every sad / bad thing there is a happy / good thing. I would prefer to dwell on the happy / good things.

In closing, None this (side bars included) is meant as "pepper spray"...

SALT baby, SALT

Thank you again for taking the time and energy to come here and share with us. I hope to see more of you, your friends, your co-workers, and your members sharing with us as well.

Good night, good luck, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
twj

[JayKew]

Game set and match to you I believe Mr Torbjon by virtue of the fact that you handled this sordid episode of your mistreatment with integrity, dignity and honesty.

These qualities allegedly seem sometimes so sadly lacking within the ethos of the "two amigos".

AboveTopSecret was such a wonderful place to visit four or five years ago when it was solely in the domain of Simon Grey. It was a first point of call for serious UFO enthusiasts.

A place to find and discuss the latest up to date news.

Nowadays it seems that in the dash for cash, ATS has been compromised by the barrage of farcical postings and topics set by such as John Leer and Sleeper.

Before I forget, I remember I once got slapped down by some youngster of a mod for calling "ludicrous" the posts from someone called EathSister ( ???? ) who used to rabbit on about her meetings off world with representatives of 219 different planets.

I was told quite forcibly that she had as much right to put up her posts of her meetings off world as much as sleeper did.

But its traffic really isnt it, thats what its all about.

Integrity and the allowance of genuine challenge to ridiculous claims were thrown out with the bath water a long time ago.

Need I say more ?

Do serious researchers visit ATS anymore ??

I would sooner come here to explore serious, no compromised research.

ATS serious research ??

Why only today I got an email from them and upon clicking on the link I was redirected to a five page debate on whether Domino Pizza were or were not colluding with aliens in an abduction programme.

I wonder how Simon Grey feels about the direction in which his creation his heading.

I would love to know but to be honest, I have not seen him post anything in quite some time.

Maybe indeed the lunatics have really taken over the asylum.

I look forward to seeing some of your work appearing on Reality Uncovered Torbjon.

[Springer]

Hi Torb...

Please don't take this the wrong way but if you could reduce the sheer volume of your posts, emails, etc... in word count it would go a long way for knuckleheads like me who have 5,000 irons in the fire and only 24 hours in a day.

WRT insulting JRitzmann, he took your demeanor and questioning/insinuating as an insult and to be honest I would have too.

WRT to whether or not you added any value to the forum, well of course you did, it just wasn't worth the price of admission (insults to RL friends and long standing expert volunteers, what we perceived as questioning our integrity when we were working our arses off to get at the reality of the Chicago story, etc...) to get to it at the time.

You actually wonder if people we KNOW are more important to us than screen names? People who have helped us build something versus screen names? Come on man, think about that...

Dabe Rabbit is one of my best RL friends, we are both from Dallas and have developed an incredible relationship over the past two years and as it turns out we know several of the same people, etc... Whether or not he chose to end communication with you based on the deal with Fair Skeptics is beyond my knowledge, he is VERY BUSY too and I suspect he was buried like the rest of us.

You have to take into account there is exactly 5 of us running a multi media, media company with print (book), radio, television, film and other web expansion initiatives working all at once. That along with all the "webmaster" crap we have to deal with on a daily basis makes the stress and time demands unreal.

Please humor me on a sidebar redirect...

We have investors who don't care a WHIT about content, but they DO want a thriving company that makes MONEY built and they want it built fast. time is money. Frankly so do we. Anyone who thinks investors dump CASH into a growing business and then order the executivess to CHANGE the business has never owned a company or attracted venture capital. The investors see what they believe is a going concern and want to empower what has worked up to the point of investment and make it BIGGER not screw it up or change it.

Bill and I both left what in comparison to this were EASY, Lucrative Executive positions, making lots of moolah to pursue the dream, that's why we take it personally when we hear the lunatic fringe cry foul about money, it's truly stupid.

It's like "money"?! You've GOT to be kidding, there are SO MANY EASIER ways to make money it's insane to think that's the reason we would do anything untoward. Seriously it's that stupid to us. Do we expect to make money? You bet your arse we do, we've poured several years and hundreds of thousands of dollars into this, is that the MOTIVATOR? Hell no! Think what you will, but that's the truth.

Back on track...
In any case, all the long windedness aside (yours and mine), it appears as though it was nothing more than a clash of manners, what you thought was reasonable we didn't. I have no idea what "made up stories" Bill was referring to unless he saw yet another "ATS is HOAXING" line of crap in the offing when he reviewed the forum the day he shut it down. Again, I don't know.

We have been through the mill, an attorney who disappeared on us, several LOONS (present company excluded) attacking us for several INSANE reasons all while we were trying to build a company that people could actually get BIG TIME attention for their ideas and theories in ALL media outlets (print, radio, TV and film).

Imagine YOU were dealing with all that crap coming from people who never risked anything more than driving to their EMPLOYER'S office, in other words they had NOTHING "on the line" while we had EVERYTHING in our lives "on the line", to create what we BELIEVED IN (and still do by the way)... under those circumstances and tell me you wouldn't have made a few mistakes out of sheer human frustration.

I truly do hope this gives you some insight, I liked you back in the day and you know I did.

I ask you to be honest and think about this... It wasn't until YOU posted things that it all changed. I didn't wake up one morning and decide Torbjon is my next victim, I liked you.

I was accosted by several staffers (about what they felt were the short story forum porno references you posted), a RL friend and volunteer expert who was insulted, etc... Then I read what you were insinuating (or what we took as your insinuations) in the FS Forum and that was it, it was beyond my control at that point.

mark...

[torbjon]

JayKew: (and others)

I appreciate the kudos but Truly, I'm not gaming, competing, trying to pick a fight, or trying to 'win' anything. To be honest I'd rather be sleeping right now (and I'm sure TheSkepticOverlord and Springer would rather be doing something else right now as well) I'm just trying to understand an event that took place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, that's all. To date I'm even More confused Now then I was Before they offered their assistance. Perhaps that is due to the nature of their communication style, perhaps it's due to a virtual complete and total lack of Sleep in my life these past eighteen years, I don't know... but they and I at least Appear to be trying, and that is all anyone can ask, right?

Both TheSkepticOverlord and Springer have taken a great deal of time to try to explain it to me... for that they have earned a certain level of courtesy and respect, that's all *shrugs* (SALT baby, SALT)

As far as Simon Grey goes, I've seen him post here rather recently, as a matter of fact. It was in regards to Shawnnas concerns of his (alleged) involvement in MAJESTIC I believe... He seemed like a pleasant fellow. I believe that that was the first time I'd ever seen him get involved in a conversation... my entire time at ats I always thought he was just some sort of myth... or silent background fixture...

But again, thank you.
twj

[Access Denied]

Saw this from Bill on ATS today…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread353103/pg4

No staff (not even me) can edit posts without leaving an edit tag. Over the years, lots of ATS code has been optimized from the legacy of the old XMB PHP, and several "basic board settings" have been essentially hard-wired into the code to prevent the need to query the database for those "basic settings" each time a page is loaded. In the old XMB, an admin could indeed remove the edit tag policy... now, on ATS, it's a hard-wired feature.

I KNOW this wasn’t true before I got banned in 2007.

[Shawnna]

Saw this from Bill on ATS today…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread353103/pg4

No staff (not even me) can edit posts without leaving an edit tag. Over the years, lots of ATS code has been optimized from the legacy of the old XMB PHP, and several "basic board settings" have been essentially hard-wired into the code to prevent the need to query the database for those "basic settings" each time a page is loaded. In the old XMB, an admin could indeed remove the edit tag policy... now, on ATS, it's a hard-wired feature.

I KNOW this wasn’t true before I got banned in 2007.

[Access Denied]

You actually wonder if people we KNOW are more important to us than screen names? People who have helped us build something versus screen names? Come on man, think about that...

That would explain a lot.

(about what they felt were the short story forum porno references you posted)

TJ is this true? Was it worse than sleeper’s blog? (in all honesty I never read it for fear of throwing up in my mouth a little but I heard it was pornographic)

[Access Denied]

I was hoping one of the three Amigos would ask me if I could prove it.

[lost_shaman]

WRT insulting JRitzmann, he took your demeanor and questioning/insinuating as an insult and to be honest I would have too.

I was privy to all of Torbjon's posts and I didn't see it.

Truth is I was shocked by the treatment of Torbjon!

WRT to whether or not you added any value to the forum, well of course you did, it just wasn't worth the price of admission (insults to RL friends and long standing expert volunteers, what we perceived as questioning our integrity when we were working our arses off to get at the reality of the Chicago story, etc...) to get to it at the time.

Appearantly a lot of people were working their arses off to get to the bottom of that "Chicago story" huh?

[torbjon]

Springer:

Not taken the wrong way at all comrade, I FULLY understand how frustrating and annoying I can be, but to answer your question, No, I'm sorry. I can't / won't change who I am for you or anybody. This has cost me Many relationships in the past and no doubt will do so in the future as well. The "short" of it is, I'm the Only person on this planet that I Have to go to bed with every single night of my life, and wake up to every single morning... everybody else, my friends, family, spouse, daughter,,, they are just passing through. But ME? I'm in it for the long haul. If I don't dig who I am, know who I am, respect who I am, then I might as well lick the third rail right now and be done with it, ya know?

If other people feel a need to compromise who they are in order to please some other individual, (or keep a job, make a buck, get laid, whatever) more power to them. I can't. Sorry.

As far as the 5,000 irons in the fire bit, not to slam anybody who may be reading this, but I'm willing to wager Heavily that I'm one of the few people here who can TRULY empathize with that. As such I have Zero sympathy for how thinly spread you have become.

Ya, it's cold, it's wet, it's hard, your feet hurt, your back hurts, the food sucks, there's no chicks, there's no booze, there's no grass, and on the off chance that you actually Do get to see your bed it's a lumpy wet mattress in room fulla hairy guys who haven't bathed in six months. Run off at the mouth again and the foremen WILL whack you with a forklift and shovel your remains into a crab pot. I've seen it happen. More than once.

But that was then. Now it's LAByrinth Theater Company. There's a dozen of us trying to produce cutting edge theater. Our budget runs between 1-2 million a year and it's never enough. We ALL pull 100+ work hours a week, every week, all year long, and I've been doing this for over five years now. Currently I'm a volunteer. I don't get paid one nickel although it's looking like I might actually get a stipend starting this summer, lucky me. Fortunately we're an NPO with a Stellar company member list or LAB would have been dead years ago. The only folks making money doing theater in New York these days is Disney. On top of that I'm the one that has been raising our daughter these past four years... all the diapers, all the spit up, all the baths, etc etc etc. (Thank gods she started pre-school a while back... Homicidal forklift driving foremen I can handle... barbie doll wielding baby jacked up on Oreos *shudders* lemme outta here! *laughs*)

yep

Our Chosen lifestyles sure are Hard alright.

I Truly can empathize with your plight. Sympathy? Forget it bub. You'll Never be able to out martyr me. Nice try though.

However, major thumbs up to you as you seem to be making rent with your chosen lifestyle (I am not) That is something you should be proud of. So few people accomplish that in life... finding something they can be Passionate about that Also pays rent.

I feel that a lotta folks are ticked at the Amigos simply because of that reason alone. Anybody can sell their soul to the man for a buck, but to find something that you really dig And find a way to make it pay rent, wow. That's an enviable thing in this world, ya know?

Onward.

So the jmann didn't like my 'demeanor', the questions were hard, the insinuations were ugly, he threw a tizzy fit, he had a face, (I didn't) he had instantly recognizable and marketable skills and credentials (I didn't), so instead of denying ignorance you just placated the marketable face and axed the faceless obnoxious Messenger bozoboy.

Sure, SOME of the concerns back then were indeed Mine, but as stated then and there (and a few times here and now) I received a fair amount of communication from some rather well known and respected members of your community expressing their concerns over the unfolding of that event on your site. Mostly via email as they didn't trust the U2U system. They were Afraid to express their concerns in open forum for fear of retribution. Apparently, unbeknownst to me, I somehow managed to Earn the reputation of someone who could be Trusted over there... weird, huh? *laughs*

So ya, sure, I re-wrote their concerns in my own 'style' and dumped them into the private sandbox knowing that you and SO would have the chance to see it Privately and ponder how to deal with it... The few folks who Did voice concerns in open forum were getting jumped on pretty hard by you guys... I know Dr. Love got slapped around pretty good, and a few others.

Obviously those persons fears were justified and I'm actually Glad they had the brains to filter it through me first. I wear a red shirt. I'm expendable. That's what red shirts do and the show is no good without them *shrugs*

http://www.myspace.com/ashproductions

(it seems to default to different number every time you hit it, expendable guy is at the top of their play list, scroll up and give it a listen, they deserve it)

*peeks*

People are posting while I'm writing my long winded reply to you Springer, sorry, I'm getting out of sync... such is life.

You say you used to like me... I'm guessing that now you don't *sighs* so it goes.

I'm glad you Dave hit it off though, he spoke very highly of you back when we were still chatting. I never meant to imply that You Personally did or said anything to influence him or his decision making process, but rather just the situation... the ol' face versus the faceless thing, that's all *shrugs* Again, I'm actually Glad that went down the way that it did... so it's cool.

Look, I KNOW you are "damned if you do, damned if you don't" but honestly, THIS conversation Could have been nixed on page one with just a few simple choice words on your guys part... the fact that we're Still bantering and playing word games just fuels the suspicion for some folks, and rightly so I feel.

It's just a Feeling, but I'm reminded of a line from Star Trek (Obsession) "Intuition, no matter how illogical, is still recognized as a command prerogative"

His intuition proved to be correct... time will tell in this case.

In closing I'm feeling an overwhelming need to share this, so share I shall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXyoMMAQ7U8

Good night, good luck, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
twj

[torbjon]

Access Denied:

*grins*

Whereas I had Not forgotten the incident, it was not something I ever intended to bring up. But since part of the discussion going on here has to do with Censorship on ats I'm kind of glad that Springer opted to mention it as I personally think it was an Hilarious (though frustrating) event.

So here's the story of Torbjon's porno on ats. Get some popcorn.

If you took the time to read the above long winded post then you may have noticed I have very close ties to LAByrinth Theater Company and have had for a little over five years now. As such, I am deeply aware of the collaborative artistic process... from concept to finished product.

So, ats has (or had) a forum for Creative Writing (maybe it's called Collaborative Writing, can't remember, and I'm not going to go look)

I NEVER noticed it or knew about that forum until one day I notice that some member had the title of "Writer" under their name... most folks just say "Member"... a few say something like "Mod" or "Admin"... you know the line, yes?

Anyway, one day I noticed some person had the tag of "Writer", it caught my eye, I Liked it, and I wanted one for me.... as you may have noticed, I like to write... I may not be very good at it but I Like to do it *shrugs*

So I asked, they said, 'oh ya, just join this forum and you too can be a "Writer"

So I joined and that was that, out steps 'torbjon - member' and in steps 'torbjon -writer'.

The first thing I noticed about the creative / collaborative writing forum is that it really wasn't very collaborative. It seemed very isolated and individual to me... people would submit stuff, there would be a lotta 'atta boys' and back patting and praises, but as far as actual 'collaboration' in an effort to create a truly beautiful or meaningful artistic expression goes? I never really saw any of that.

They had some little contests for points and 'badges' from time to time. Occasionally someone (mod) would toss a concept out that we were supposed to build upon... real little league stuff, writing 101 kinda thing, ya know?

So I submitted some stuff. Nothing fancy... high school stuff, really. Then one day I submitted this story:

http://www.torbtown.com/wet_dream.html

Pretty generic, right? Nothing to fancy there, maybe a giggle or two *shrugs*

So, I'm reading my 'atta boy' replies, and I'm reading the mods reply, and obviously I don't have the Exact Quote for you, but the gist of it was he / she (can't remember which mod it was but suspect it was Masqua) said that they had their finger hovering over the Delete button the entire time they were reading it! *LAUGHS!* Really, it was too risqué for them...

But they left it. In the end they decided that it was Okay...

Fine. Whatever.

So, more time goes by, then another contest / challenge comes up... real generic. We've all had them... it was the type where the 'teacher' tosses a concept line out there and you have to incorporate it into your story. I don't remember the exact concept line but it was something like "the wolves howled in the distance and I..." Write something incorporating that concept, 250 words or less, due at the end of the week.

Basic, right?

Since is was so short and so simple and I really didn't think anything of it, I just whipped it out right then and there inside of ats (normally I do my writing Outside of the forum, save a copy, and cut and paste my work in, but this time I didn't... which was my mistake and my downfall)

The story I wrote was the flip side of the above linked story... the bears' point of view.

YES, it did indeed have the words "pink", "lick" and "salty" in it *shrugs* so what?

I then went and poked around ats for a while, I think a I made a few posts out in open forum...

Then I get this U2U saying my recent post has been DELETED.

'huh?' thunk I.

I go check it out...

Turns out Maqua just up and axed the thing.

AXED it.

In a Collaborative Fiction Forum.

NO collaboration.

NO discussion of edits.

Just WHACK, straight to the trash can.

So, ya, sure, I sent the guy a note, and asked Why did you Trash that?

To wit he replied, rather tersely 'you Know why'

My clever reply was 'um, no, not really, 'splain it to the dumb white guy, will ya?'

THAT was when I discovered the little ha ha I had written was PORN *rolls eyes*

He was pretty snooty about it, too.

So, being just as snooty in return I asked if he could salvage the thing outta the trash so I could edit it for Disney.

He said no, he was busy, don't bother him, go away, and more snootyness.

I said screw that noise. At that time Springer and I were on pretty good speaking terms so I sent Him a note, said this was Whack, could He salvage the thing outta the trash so I could Disneyfy the thing.

Springer did NOT get back to me. Instead I got some dude whose name eludes me but whose title does not as I had never seen that title before.

Super Mod.

So, I'm chatting with Super Mod, asking if HE could salvage the thing so I can do an edit...

He says he's read it, it's porn, it can't be posted, I'm an evil nasty vile wicked person...

Right, fine, whatever, Obviously folks over there have access to the trash but so far NOBODY has given me a copy of the oh so evil porn back, so I'm getting More than a little miffed and doing absolutely Nothing to hide the fact.

That's when Super Mod dude crossed the line.

He accused me of being drunk.

Unbeknownst to Super Mod I've been on the wagon for over 20 years now.

LAST thing you do to an ex alchy is accuse them of falling off the wagon.

So I Reamed him for that. Hard. Both Barrels. Had that exchange been in real life one of us (either he or me) would be fish food now. No ifs ands or buts about it.

THAT got me my post ban *sighs*

Mod and Super Mod BOTH are disrespectful pricks but I get the post ban, how cool is that? *laughs*

That was the beginning of the end for me over there. *shrugs* Not that I lose sleep over it or anything *grins*

Anyway, thanks for asking AD... I don't know about that other persons porn blog over there, but I'm Sure it's very tame compared to the little 250 word salt lick story I churned out for the non-collaborative writing forum.

okay

It's late

Good night, good luck, and have a pleasant tomorrow.

twj

[Access Denied]

[uses quote function to quote out of context and try to piss TJ off]

I'm expendable.

http://www.myspace.com/ashproductions

In closing I'm feeling an overwhelming need to share this, so share I shall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXyoMMAQ7U8

Nothing fancy... high school stuff, really. Then one day I submitted this story:

http://www.torbtown.com/wet_dream.html

*laughs*

[this is not a one line post]

OK I give. So what's the deal, you're like a serial killer or something, the Aliens made you do it, you like to cut the heads off of chickens and drink their blood (not that there's anything wrong with that) or what? Help me out here man; I'm trying real hard to find a reason not to like you so I can ban your sorry ass...

[Oh right I forgot, some folks with absolutely no sense of humor tried to convince you it was obvious ATS tried to pull off one of the lamest hoaxes in history, well make it that quarter, to attract attention to their overhyped and overextended mega conglomerate user generated err… I mean except when all else fails… content multimedia outlet that really knows how to stick it to the man without shooting themselves in the foot and making everyone look like an idiot in the process right? Off with your head!]

Night,

Tom

[ryguy]

The only folks making money doing theater in New York these days is Disney. On top of that I'm the one that has been raising our daughter these past four years... all the diapers, all the spit up, all the baths, etc etc etc. (Thank gods she started pre-school a while back... Homicidal forklift driving foremen I can handle... barbie doll wielding baby jacked up on Oreos *shudders* lemme outta here! *laughs*)

yep

That paragraph is beautiful. My respect for Torb has just skyrocketed into the eschelon.

After what I've just gone through over the last couple of weeks, it's that much more beautiful - and expressing why it is so meaningful for me right now is very hard for me to put into words at the moment.

I don't know if ATS has become too much of a corporate-mentality and has lost touch with the original Simon Gray dream - but from the input of some old members here, I'm getting the sense that it may be true that a number of people, at least, long for the days-of-old when ATS was that passionate young entity driven by Simon Gray.

Being at that point now, alongside Steve and AD, I can appreciate the difficulty expressed by Springer in the desire to face the financial reality of running such place, and to face the demand for neutrality when dealing with paranormal topics.

This is one reason we're trying to come up with a different business plan that isn't based on traffic, because sometimes the things that you need to do to increase traffic simply don't hold true to the original foundation of what RU was meant to stand for. To encourage a level of neutrality that ignores science and reason so that any lunatic with a claim could hold his ground in a forum for many months at a time, evading the need for evidence - would go completely against the reasons we opened this forum in the first place. Sometimes truth demands that someone like Chorlton or Torb stand up and point out the obvious illogic and lack of reason, however painful that may be.

Just like the U.S. Justice system where Truth is obtained through assuming a charge against someone is untrue until the accused is proven guilty beyond all doubt with evidence (erring on the side of reason) - in much the same way, it's critical that we adhere to the Truth by assuming that a claim (especially the most outrageous of them) is untrue until the evidence proves it to be true beyond all doubt.

Neutrality isn't an open wind-tunnel mind...being neutral means being open to the possibilities that a claim could be true...but not so open that you start to embrace or entertain the reality of a claim before it has been proven beyond all doubt.

-Ry

[torbjon]

As I said, I DO indeed do it from time to time:

springers quotes

"We have investors who don't care a WHIT about content, but they DO want a thriving company that makes MONEY built and they want it built fast. time is money. Frankly so do we."

and

"...we were trying to build a company that people could actually get BIG TIME attention for their ideas and theories in ALL media outlets (print, radio, TV and film)."

ryguy quote:

"...I'm getting the sense that it may be true that a number of people, at least, long for the days-of-old when ATS was that passionate young entity driven by Simon Gray."

and that's the rub, isn't it?

A bad analogy if I may? It's like the New York Times turning into the New York Post turning into the National Enquirer... which is Fine, but the Enquirer is still claiming to be the Times.

On the one hand there is the emotional issues old time members have with their favorite trusted site changing into something else. Change is hard to deal with. Subject To Change is a philosophy few folks willingly embrace. Okay. That's a purely emotional issue on an individual level, and something the individual will have to come to grips with whether they like it or not. Change is simply the way things are.

On the other hand there is the very legitimate concerns about the claims being made by the new entity (deny ignorance, altruism, honesty, respectability, etc.) Those are the concepts upon which the Original site were founded...

The site has Changed... which is FINE.

But the original product branding / founding concepts / mottos / credos / etc have Not changed to accurately reflect the New Entity.

Now then, with the exception of the people who have emotional issues with the fact that things Change nobody else really Cares that the site is getting 'bigger better faster stronger whatever'

What a few folks Do seem to take issue with is the apparent false advertising, mis representation, and deception as to who and what the new entity really is.... It's the Ralph Nadar thing *shrugs* Don't call it a safe car when it's not a safe car. It USED to be a safe car, now it is not. By All Means churn out the gas guzzling road hogs by the millions, just don't call it a safe car anymore. Call it something else.

And then there are the allegations / assumptions / gut feelings that certain elements within the new entity are working behind the scenes to create or manipulate product in order to increase marketability.

These allegations are Exceptionally difficult to "prove" one way or the other when one side holds virtually all of the cards, all of the data, and is in the position of saying "nope, you are wrong, no hanky panky here, move along, move along" with outside individuals having no recourse but to accept that answer.

I (and perhaps others) FEEL that there is sufficient 'circumstantial evidence' to support the allegations of product tampering for the purpose of increasing marketability.

It's just a FEELING on my part. Feelings are neither logical nor rational. But again, intuition, no matter how illogical or irrational it may be, is still a powerful and useful tool. Perhaps it will lead to dead end, perhaps it won't. Time will tell.

In the end, ultimately what we are discussing here is the manipulation of the human mind, the swaying of public opinion, the Control of the hearts and minds of the people of the world.

In my (worthless) opinion, this is a more important issue than whether or not air bags work or if saccharine causes cancer.

If some organization which produces automobiles or sugar free consumables Requires an independent third party organization to keep them in check and SAFE for human consumption, then an aspiring Multi Media Outlet with the potential of influencing the hearts and minds of the entire world population MUST be scrutinized closely at all times.

I always hate it when I see this line but here it comes:

Think of the Children *laughs*

Good night, good luck, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
twj