ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

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ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby iskander » Sat May 17, 2008 4:03 pm

Hello everybody.

I’m going to tell the same old ATS story, with the difference of having all of the supporting proof positive evidence. I’ve been a member of ATS for years while restraining my self only to technical discussion about weaponry and aviation, nothing speculative, while staying away from conspiracy theories and politics.

With in the last two years I encountered a fundamental change in the conduct of ATS enforcers and how blatantly and regularly they disregard their own rules and regulations.

Identical patterns in thread after thread. Sock puppets “gang” up to form and shape the opinion while being covered by mid-level moderators and if that does not work, then saboteurs simply derail the topic thus forcing its closure.

When complaints are logged, higher level mods simply clean up and that’s it.

I was banned not for making outlandish stamens or misbehaving, but because ATS agenda is the exact opposite of my topics of interest.

I was not even given a reason for the banning, a moderator simply told to keep quite and that “I better learn how to let things lye”, and when I retorted with my intent of posting the entire chain of events on the conspiracy section of the site, with ALL of the supporting documents and correspondence, I was permanently banned with out an explanation.

Naturally I was given an “option” of filing a complaint, which I did, and as expected never received a response to. So the usual claim of “all the members has to do to get reinstated is to contacts us and will take it under consideration” is just a plain lie.

To be honest, everything happened just as I predicted. I have experience working with such “topics”, and that’s exactly why I had to be “put away”. At one point I worked for FOX networks, so I’m familiar with various tools of public opinion manipulation and enforcement.

I did do just a little digging around after my second site ban, and naturally found out that ATS is just a cookie cutter setup.

Apparently this has been known for years, here are a few links;

http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.co ... ecret.html

http://matrix50.blogspot.com/2006/03/ab ... posed.html

The question is just how much tax-free advertising revenue they are puling to keep the staff of enforcers and sock puppets. Just look at the site, it’s literally PEPPERED with ads from the F500 corps. Among others, Microsoft, Ford, Chevy, etc, placing advertising on a PRIVET site “hosted” by a few “friends”. Did anybody ever heard of ANY major company handing out its ad program to just a couple of “guys”?

How do those wire transfers are treated exactly?

How do they account for their revenues, taxes, staff, etc?
Where’s their IT department? How do they get paid?

Better yet, who exactly maintains their FLAG (aka data mining core) based data base, which is logged by the members them selves.

They secretly run public opinion polls and social-engineering tests on propaganda assimilation patterns.

Just think about it, what do you think they do with all that PRIVTE property (member imputed data), all while getting funded by MAJOR corporate sponsorship?

It’s a GOLD mine for public opinion strategy think tanks. Microsoft = MSNBC, a MAJOR player in the mass media game, and they are one of the heaviest sponsors.

Am I saying that ATS is a full blown cointel opp? Well that’s the point, it doesn’t have to be, because as we all know (and if don’t then should), private intel and think tank “groups” is what drives the data collection, processing, and strategy development.

So who do you think has the know how of organizing the “freefloater” ops? Staffing 20-somethings is not a problem, there’s a virtual warehouse of those guys that sit in their homes all day racking up payments for blog-flooding, it’s know as a fact. That issue was brought up in the political arena, where hired blog-moles were regularly inserted into the opposition. No difference here as well. ATS is a very clearly agenda driven, opinion molding, data collection/mining opp, there’s just no other way around it, and now they are moving into the media arena full steam ahead. Again remember that ATS is officially self described as a group of “friends” with a “hobby”. What a wonderful way to organize a financially isolated entity with a built in tax shelter with zero accountability! Not to mention that the only official apparatus of ATS is a group of highly engaged attorneys, and I just have to wonder how they get paid for their services.

Ask your selves, which organizations in USA are free from taxation while actually operating as a profit opp? Don’t forget that Bill aka SkepticOverlord openly stated that they just pocket the profits from their MERCHANDISING and add placement revenue, while operating with complete impunity. Who can do that so openly in US? ATS is clearly not a religious organization, so what is left?

Every time I challenged enforcers/sock puppets to an open discussion moderated under agreed upon guidelines, they have refused, and that’s not done unless there’s a system in place.

Naturally I have all of my ATS data backed up (optical), so I’m always able to back up what I say with proof positive evidence.

For example, how I bas banned with out explanation for the first time, with out ANY provocation, all while a group of FOUR enforcers (moderators) were going through my posts and deleting/”editing” them. Such “clean up” effort went as far as THREE years back in my posts.

It was a set up, involving a classic use of a planted instigator, a previously unseen member who was supposedly registered in 2007, and then during one of the discussions his registration date all the sudden changed to 2004, and his ATS “points” shut up like he just robbed a bank.

Apparently this happens often on ATS, and these “ghost” members keep popping up all over the place. Any ATS member that’s been there for a while knows that separate areas of the forums are rather closely, and members have long established relationships, so it’s very apparent when a fresh “crew” comes in and “cleans house”.

As many here already know, the best example of such discords have been made public by John Leer, and after watching his 4 hour expose, I can firmly confirm that EVERYTHING he said about ATS conduct is absolutely correct, I went through the same process, and unlike John I have ALL of the supporting evidence.

Personally I invested many years of constructive contribution to ATS forums, and it is sad to see your efforts being simply erased, but in all honesty I should have knowing better. I was hoping that even in the pre-determined environment an independent community could take root, and that is exactly why I have been tracking ATS patterns this entire time, and that’s exactly why I focused on the topics that I did.

So here it is, take it as you will, feel free to ask questions, and make up your own mind.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby Access Denied » Sat May 17, 2008 5:01 pm

Hi iskander, welcome to RU and thank you for sharing your experience with us. If I had not experienced the same things as you I would probably think you’re crazy. :)

I don’t know if ATS is an officially sanctioned Counterintelligence Program (COINTELPRO) in fact I kind of doubt it considering the sloppy and amateurish behavior of the owners but I can certainly understand why you might think (or it would appear) that way. I do have some evidence of my own I have not shared publically that suggests they might be in contact with some officials (as would naturally be expected to occur eventually considering some of the subject matter) but at the very least I believe the owners of ATS are in bed with many of the same folks (e.g. former members of the intelligence community) who we have been tracking that have been disinforming the UFO community for years for fun and for profit and likely other nefarious and subversive purposes (e.g. foreign intelligence gathering) in my opinion. I put John Lear in the category as well.

I will probably have some more questions for you once I’ve had a chance to go over what you’ve presented so far but for now I just wanted to welcome you and thank you for coming forward. With more folks like you on the case maybe we can figure out what if anything is really going on at ATS besides just making money... ;)
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby ryguy » Sat May 17, 2008 5:04 pm

Hi iskander,

Thanks for signing up and making your first post. There are certainly a number of folks who've experienced the kind of things you've described, so thanks for sharing your perspective and your story.

A couple of quick points. Not to detract from anything you've written, but we try to maintain a certain respect for evidence. You are obviously free to share your experiences - but your post title listed "hard facts included", so I was very excited to see what you were going to be presenting. I saw an anecdotal testimony, but I couldn't find where you had provided the level of evidence that you promised in the title? Did I miss it?

Also, you might want to avoid making reference to anything Laura-Knight Jadczyk writes. I've seen her call practically every single person she comes across being "cointelpro". I really got a kick out of the episode where she teamed up with Bill Ryan for a while in order to "expose" ATS, and then turned around and started calling Bill Ryan a part of some Cointelpro conspiracy too. lol

I suspect she suffers from some acute paranoid schitzophrenic disorder of some sort. Who knows...but again, I wouldn't take much of what she (or John Lear for that matter) publishes very seriously. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who quotes or references people like her or John Lear - their credibility immediately comes into question.

Just something to keep in mind for future reference when dealing in this murky world.

-Ry
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"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby iskander » Sat May 17, 2008 5:36 pm

“Hi iskander, welcome to RU and thank you for sharing your experience with us. If I had not experienced the same things as you I would probably think you’re crazy.”

Hi Access Denied, glad to be here.

“I don’t know if ATS is an officially sanctioned Counterintelligence Program (COINTELPRO) in fact I kind of doubt it considering the sloppy and amateurish behavior of the owners but I can certainly understand why you might think (or it would appear) that way.”

I don’t necessarily think that it’s a covert coin, it doesn’t have to be, but it is a fast that their financial bases are shady to say the least, and usually in such cases it’s a win-win arrangement. Ex ops go corporate and operate on the buddy-buddy system, much as Pentagons revolving door, so “amateurish” behavior comes from the enforcers, not the owners.

Amateurish behavior is also a perfect front, like the “shops” back in the 60s.

“I do have some evidence of my own”

I’m not much into the UFO filed, but on that note, if you re aware of any decent image database of crop circles I’d appreciate a link.

“I will probably have some more questions for you once I’ve had a chance to go over what you’ve presented so far but for now I just wanted to welcome you and thank you for coming forward. With more folks like you on the case maybe we can figure out what if anything is really going on at ATS besides just making money...”

Fire away! Most of my backups are in PDF form so I’ll have to convert into png and dump the relevant ones on the photobucket.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby Access Denied » Sat May 17, 2008 5:52 pm

iskander wrote:“I do have some evidence of my own”

I’m not much into the UFO filed, but on that note, if you re aware of any decent image database of crop circles I’d appreciate a link.

Err... I'm afraid you lost me there. :) Not to change the subject but I think we have a couple of people here who know some of the folks who have admitted to making crop circles...

http://www.circlemakers.org/

Anyway, like Ryan said, we will need to see this evidence you claim to have at some point that supports your position. If it’s evidence of censorship we would definitely like to see what that’s about. We know they censor stuff but the question is what did they censor and why?
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby iskander » Sat May 17, 2008 5:52 pm

Greetings ryguy .

“A couple of quick points. Not to detract from anything you've written, but we try to maintain a certain respect for evidence. You are obviously free to share your experiences - but your post title listed "hard facts included", so I was very excited to see what you were going to be presenting. I saw an anecdotal testimony, but I couldn't find where you had provided the level of evidence that you promised in the title? Did I miss it?”

My post was already long, and I tried to keep as simple as the first post needs to be. I’m sure you’ll agree that this is a broad topic, and I just did not want to dump everything in one pile.

Hard facts are included in my story, I just haven’t told my story yet. As I said I’ve been a member of ATS since around 2005, under the same name iskander, so I had a long time to collect the info.

“Also, you might want to avoid making reference to anything Laura-Knight Jadczyk writes. I've seen her call practically every single person she comes across being "cointelpro".

That me be so, but regardless of ones paranoia, she did run the basic search and found undeniable facts about ATS structure, or most importantly the apparent lack there off.

Putting aside her personal feelings and what ever disorder she might be suffering from, she did find simple facts, which are publicly available.

“Just something to keep in mind for future reference when dealing in this murky world.”

Well as long as we’re talking about the wilderness of mirrors, technically speaking this very forum would be a perfect “valve” for ATS, and it’s clear that there is cross pollination/promotion between ATS and RU, the nature of which I will simply leave alone.

In any case, since you are interested in hard facts, I’ll take the time and sort it all out so they will be presentable.

Do have any specific points of interest?
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby iskander » Sat May 17, 2008 6:06 pm

“Err... I'm afraid you lost me there. Not to change the subject but I think we have a couple of people here who know some of the folks who have admitted to making crop circles...”

I appreciate the link, thank you. I meant UFO is not my field, not filed.

“Anyway, like Ryan said, we will need to see this evidence you claim to have at some point that supports your position. If it’s evidence of censorship we would definitely like to see what that’s about. We know they censor stuff but the question is what did they censor and why?”

Censorship is only the beginning, it’s the organized “ganging up” activities that are the most evident and troubling, along with COMPLETE disregard for their own terms and agreement regulations.

As I said before it’ll take me some time to properly prepare the files, but I promise it’ll be interesting :)
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby JayKew » Sat May 17, 2008 11:40 pm

I came across this today ------->


From: The three Amigos <admin@abovetopsecret.com>
Reply-To: "admin@abovetopsecret.com" <12884215-1173@sharpmail.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:18:13 +0000 (GMT)
To: <bill.ryan*******>
Subject: tut tut Bill.

Bill you sure made a fool of yourself over the last email. I don't recommend such hysterics again. Remember we can deny just as loud as you can shout. You failed the first loyalty test. Just like Victor has done, you need to decide which side your bread is buttered on.

Lets get down to business.Your website and book will never succeed with our presence on the internet. We dominate Google and any searches will bring up serpo killing threads first.

Your credability is zero.However we can change this, instead of fighting ATS why not work with us? Here is the proposal.

1. You give to ATS the serpo site and all materials within. We will brand it with our own logo and promote it on the internet. Afterall we own it already, just as a giant parasite can own its host. If we suck blood you die.

2. We will market and promote the site and the material. We will also use our lawyers and publishers to publish the site and attendant information in book and movie formats.Royalties will be divided between us and yourself. As there are 3 of us and only 1 of you, you recieve 25% of all royalties. Twenty five percent is better than nothing, so its a good deal.You will be expected to divide your royalities between any partners on your side. Get Victor a decent computer out of his share to save us more hassle.

3 All further communication on the serpo topic will be vetted by ATS admin before being added to the site. 4 ATS writers will take over from the flawed Anon 2 that you are using. We have some very good talent on ATS who can write professionally much better than your current weak writers are attempting. Too many logical holes, poor proofiing of facts.

Your position will be to defend such writing in the public arena, as you are currently doing, leaving the ATS admin as silent partners.

We are happy to write your own defence articles for you, as well as publish them under your name. That way you won't have to do anything. In the future we may also see you moderate the serpo forum on ATS as a staff member. Many of our staff have successfully integrated their sites into ours on a similar basis to that proposed
here.

We forsee ATS as a world wide conspiracy portal with sites such as yours incorporated into it. The few sites that have not followed our direction have disappeared from the net soon after, we have powerful backers with many talents.We expect your agreement to this proposal. The consequences of refusing our fine gesture will see your site and hard work wasted, no one wants that sad future.

http://www.sharpmail.co.uk - "Live in your world, email in ours" Send
'fake' email for free!
Remove this footer by upgrading.

------ End of Forwarded Message

Anybody seen this before ??
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby Zep Tepi » Sun May 18, 2008 12:27 am

Yes, that is the infamous "Netchicken" epsiode that has been discussed on here before.

search.php

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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby Springer » Sun May 18, 2008 5:01 am

Is THIS what RU has become?! :o

PITIFUL...

Carry on.

I am GONE, what a fewkin' SHAME

mark...
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby JayKew » Sun May 18, 2008 11:20 am

So Springer feels its ok to write "goodbye" posts on other peoples forums but its not ok for other people to write "goodbye" posts on Springers forum.

How two faced is that ??
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby JayKew » Sun May 18, 2008 11:30 am

Zep Tepi wrote:Yes, that is the infamous "Netchicken" epsiode that has been discussed on here before.

search.php

Cheers,
Steve


Thank you very much for that information Steve.

I was well aware of the New Zealanders tactless sortie into the Serpo affair and his subsequent banishing from ATS but I really hadnt the interest at the time of the event to delve into the minutiae of the actual email.

It made interesting reading.

However I spent most of last night reading up on Simon Gray and that made far more interesting reading.

From the early days of ATS until a year or so ago, I really did admire the man for what he had built.

It would be a shame to find out that he did not really exist.

Anybody have any tangible contact with him ???
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby MrPenny » Sun May 18, 2008 4:45 pm

I think the correct phoneme Springer is looking or is "fookin' ".

I think I'll give Springer the benefit of the doubt here and take his comments as satirical jabs. Anyone who has spent much time at ATS, has seen exactly those types of posts; condemning the quality of an entire board based on the content of a single thread.

* Riposte*
Or, he's forgotten the meaning of his signature and is attempting to start an argument. :P
P.T. Barnum wouldn't stand a chance with this crowd.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby Access Denied » Sun May 18, 2008 5:35 pm

JayKew wrote:Anybody have any tangible contact with him ???

Other than personal email exchanges that were traceable to the UK? No, but I don't see any reason to believe he's not who started ATS. That may not be his real name but I think there's a photo of him on ATS where some folks from ATS have met him in person and have you seen Shawnna’s posts about his connection to the online game MAJESTIC and ATS at an early age?

Like Ryan said, I wouldn’t take anything Laura-Knight Jadczyk writes too seriously if that’s where you’re getting your information from?

Now the netchicken stuff, that’s interesting. He hangs out here…

ATS history with board instigated hoaxes?
http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=3508

netchicken wrote:The worst people in the conspiracy field are those who take themselves too seriously and cannot step back and see just how wacky some theories are. To me such individuals are often very gullible and set themelves up for hoaxes to trap them.

I can't complain about ATS hoaxes that the staff made, it displayed a healthy sence of objectivism and sence of the absurd. Its the complainers who have the problems, not the ATS staff hoaxers.

SERPO was not a hoax by ATS, they were just as flummoxed by it as the rest of the net. To me it was obvious it WAS a hoax, and I had no problems with trying to hoax the hoaxers. That some were "believers" just goes to show the old Barnum circus saying is true.

Seems the staff hoaxing policy at ATS is don’t get caught. ;)
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included

Postby Shawnna » Sun May 18, 2008 6:44 pm

Not wanting to derail anything here but.....

I've seen no "hard facts" as yet.

And has anyone here vetted the ID of the OP in this thread?

Like I said before, publicity is publicity and there is no bad publicity.

There are quite a few who have been burned in some way by ATS across the vast cyber spectrum.

If RU is going to allow this kind of dialog, it will naturally attract all sorts of former ATS members with an 'agenda'. Making sure RU standards for evidence plays out with this topic will be very important in maintaining credibility.

IMHO, of course!

S
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From the movie "Contact"

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