ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby TheSkepticOverlord » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:56 pm

torbjon wrote:I mean, here's a question for you: what if the majority of the STAFF feel that member such and such is a 'bad egg' and should be banned BUT the majority of your membership just LOVE member such and such and don't want to see them banned.

The member would very likely receive a posting ban and engaged in a U2U or email conversation with admin. However, there is also a very high probability that they'd be "perma-banend" based on the staff discussion in this type of situation.

The long-term management of the core ideal of the ATS vision supersedes the supposed popularity of a disruptive member.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby Chorlton » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:26 am

SO, you are sounding increasingly like you are wearing a uniform, jackboots and hat when posting.

Do you ever actually *Talk* to human type people? do you get out much? as your posts and language here is becoming more and more robotic or as we would say in the UK 'Nerdy'

Im also puzzled by the amount of time you are spending here? You must like it, as you spend an amazing amount of time here pontificating and attempting (badly) to defend your forum.
Why? Why bother? why not just ignore it? Its pretty obvious you arent converting anyone or impressing anyone, so why are you here?

Is it a conspiracy?
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby MrPenny » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:17 pm

Chorlton wrote: you arent converting anyone or impressing anyone, so why are you here?


Hmmmm....he may not be converting anyone, but as far as impressing anyone.....might be a different story.

Clearly, those here at RU that SO has engaged in discourse, are often adversarial, sometimes aggressive, and most have some clear grievance against ATS and its policies. I don't know if the grievances are legitimate or not....wasn't there, don't know who's "facts" are the important ones. Frankly, I don't care....I cannot for the life of me pinpoint any justification for the effort put forth by so many, to highlight the stumbles of a developing, and unique, business model. The point is, many readers of this exchange, coming into it with zero background, may just be impressed with SO's ability to stay civil, stay on message, and avoid ad hominem references.

So how does a media driven enterprise attract "customers" in the modern environment and culture? Look at TV and entertainment....you cater to the "average". Unfortunately, the average nowadays is badly skewed. My opinion is, the average person has the ability to reason and comtemplate at roughly the level of a middle school student, or slightly better than a large, goofy, Labrador Retriever.

Question becomes....what do you, and others, want to be? The below average that doesn't fit in? Or the above average? Personally, I can't comfortably participate at ATS anymore.....there doesn't seem to be any real discussion there. The spewing of dogma, rhetoric, and hyperbole simply drowns out the reasoned voices. So be it.

By the way....your signature invites way too many wise-cracks.....especially with someone like me and my penchant for being a smartass.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby Chorlton » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:58 pm

MrPenny wrote:
Chorlton wrote: you arent converting anyone or impressing anyone, so why are you here?


Hmmmm....he may not be converting anyone, but as far as impressing anyone.....might be a different story.
.


No, I dont think his ducking and diving, bobbing and weaving, avoiding issues, taking points out of context and generally trying to look so superior (and failing) is impressing anyone.

Im still curious as to the reasoning though
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby TheSkepticOverlord » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:44 pm

Chorlton wrote:so why are you here?

It's very clear that you wish me gone so that you can focus on one side of the fictions you enjoy inventing... for it's clear you're not interested in reality, and instead take delight in the delusional fantasies being created. I apologize that my involvement of logical explanations for normal events contributes toward tipping the scale to a more balanced state and subsequently ruins your enjoyment.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby ryguy » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:04 pm

MrPenny wrote:So how does a media driven enterprise attract "customers" in the modern environment and culture? Look at TV and entertainment....you cater to the "average". Unfortunately, the average nowadays is badly skewed. My opinion is, the average person has the ability to reason and comtemplate at roughly the level of a middle school student, or slightly better than a large, goofy, Labrador Retriever.


It does appear that way...lol.

Question becomes....what do you, and others, want to be? The below average that doesn't fit in? Or the above average? Personally, I can't comfortably participate at ATS anymore.....there doesn't seem to be any real discussion there. The spewing of dogma, rhetoric, and hyperbole simply drowns out the reasoned voices. So be it.


Well said - it's my own reason for visiting ATS less and less. Not because I dislike the forum or the folks who run it, but you can only eat so many bags of greasy potato chips before you get sick and are forced to realize that it's probably time to start eathing something more healthy.

Sure - the masses continue devouring junk food, but it doesn't mean we have to.

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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:42 pm

MrPenny wrote:So how does a media driven enterprise attract "customers" in the modern environment and culture? Look at TV and entertainment....you cater to the "average". Unfortunately, the average nowadays is badly skewed. My opinion is, the average person has the ability to reason and comtemplate at roughly the level of a middle school student, or slightly better than a large, goofy, Labrador Retriever.


Alright now... there is absolutely no reason to be insulting some pretty smart dogs! If you had said Golden Retriever I would have come out swingin! :)

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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby Chorlton » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:08 pm

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:
Chorlton wrote:so why are you here?

It's very clear that you wish me gone so that you can focus on one side of the fictions you enjoy inventing... for it's clear you're not interested in reality, and instead take delight in the delusional fantasies being created. I apologize that my involvement of logical explanations for normal events contributes toward tipping the scale to a more balanced state and subsequently ruins your enjoyment.


No I just want to know why you are spending so much time here when its obvious you arent achieveing anything other than slowly sinking deeper and deeper into the hole you are carefully digging for yourself.

I havent invented any fictions. Its you and your daft mate who ave benn inventing the fictions.
You can think what you want and spout what you want, it doesnt mean you are right. There's sufficient evidence thats been posted here to see that you, at one time, and whilst I was there were encouraging the believers and were warning off sceptics whilst encouraging the likes of Lear Sleeper and zorgon in their fantasies. There is also sufficient evidence (that you even posted) that I was guilty of nothing more than speaking normally and that you have lived a very sheltered life, but because I made Springer look a prat and upset your other cash cows I got the boot. You can canoodle and duck and dive and misrepresent whats been said as much as you want, but its pretty obvious you are proud of your own deviousness and pomposity and are merely here to advertise your sad sad site.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby Chorlton » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:11 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:
MrPenny wrote:So how does a media driven enterprise attract "customers" in the modern environment and culture? Look at TV and entertainment....you cater to the "average". Unfortunately, the average nowadays is badly skewed. My opinion is, the average person has the ability to reason and comtemplate at roughly the level of a middle school student, or slightly better than a large, goofy, Labrador Retriever.


Alright now... there is absolutely no reason to be insulting some pretty smart dogs! If you had said Golden Retriever I would have come out swingin! :)

Ray


He should have said Springer spaniel ??
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby JiveTurkey » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:49 pm

Springer wrote:@JT

I am unaware of Beachcoma's situation, I understood (s)he was recruiting via U2Us or something along those lines. Torbjon is going to laugh at me here, but, please ask Beach to send me an email (you have my addy JT) and I'll look into the situation.

If we screwed up I assure you I will apologize and reinstate the account.

Springer...



I can assure you that IF BC was recruiting via u2u or any other ON SITE method, he didn't say anything to us about it. Seeing as how all of his convos with us (the admins) were 100% confidential (since he is an admin himself), I'm very very certain that he would have told us if this were the case.

Just the fact that you say "I am unaware" and "I understood" tells me that there are some flaws in the communication over at ATS. This isn't and insult and it's not a cheap shot. Just stating a simple fact/observation.

While I don't expect all of you guys to keep up with the reasons for the banning of every member, this member in particular has been discussed very frequently and, given the obvious interest you guys showed in the whole "mess" that BC was supposedly caught up in, I would expect you to have some knowledge of the situation.

The only thing I ask is that you actually take a look at the situation involving BC for yourself. You know as well as all of us do that some BS happens from time to time over at ATS. Members of the staff can lie/distort the truth as well as any other member. BC was as loyal a member of ATS as he is our forum. The disrespect he was shown is pitiful (for lack of a better word).


I appreciate the offer and I will pass the info along.


Jasn


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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby JiveTurkey » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:59 pm

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:
torbjon wrote:I mean, here's a question for you: what if the majority of the STAFF feel that member such and such is a 'bad egg' and should be banned BUT the majority of your membership just LOVE member such and such and don't want to see them banned.

The member would very likely receive a posting ban and engaged in a U2U or email conversation with admin. However, there is also a very high probability that they'd be "perma-banend" based on the staff discussion in this type of situation.

The long-term management of the core ideal of the ATS vision supersedes the supposed popularity of a disruptive member.



Perhaps stating this "core ideal of the ATS vision" in a straightforward manner would be a good idea??

Seeing as how most members buy into the "Deny Ignorance" bull, a bit of clarification might help resolve a bit of future "drama".

I must admit that I don't see the logic you guys follow.

You take a cheap shot like "the supposed popularity of a disruptive member", yet, you guys (the staff) are far more disruptive (in some cases) to the "flow" of ATS and it's threads/discussions.

Take, for example, some of your and Mark's overly defensive (to the point of being insulting) replies to honest questions asked by members.

Have you guys forgotten that the site targets CONSPIRACY theorists? Of course they are going to be paranoid. Yet, when that paranoia calls into question the "practices" of ATS, they are often insulted and/or banned for their concerns.

Are these remarks not disruptive to the site and the overall membership?

How can you guys, being owners of the site, feel that YOUR disruptive actions won't lead to further disruption from others?

Seems a bit silly to me.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts not included

Postby JiveTurkey » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:04 am

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:
Chorlton wrote:so why are you here?

It's very clear that you wish me gone so that you can focus on one side of the fictions you enjoy inventing... for it's clear you're not interested in reality, and instead take delight in the delusional fantasies being created. I apologize that my involvement of logical explanations for normal events contributes toward tipping the scale to a more balanced state and subsequently ruins your enjoyment.



Fiction CAN be fun.

Certainly you are aware of this concept eh Bill?

I love your attempts at smarmy wit and humor. Perhaps you should attempt to instill a bit of this in the future thread titles over at ATS?? Personally, I would find them far more entertaining and interesting than "Here Come the Black Haters?" and "The Driver DID Shoot JFK in the Head!" Those are getting a bit old. :lol: (<-- The smiley known as the "way too homosexual quiver lip")

Do you get a chuckle when you actually type out those little "I apologize that my involvement of logical explanations for normal events contributes toward tipping the scale to a more balanced state and subsequently ruins your enjoyment." comments? I know I do.


Silly bastid.
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Re: ATS EXPOSED - hard facts were included

Postby iskander » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:18 am

ATS EXPOSED - hard facts WERE included

Happy New Year!

Hi all, it’s been some time, I’ve been preoccupied with other matters, so for now I’m temporarily back, and since sleeping dogs never just “lie”, and the more they have to run the more they get tired out, so lets keep them running :)

So to recap;

“Toward the end of the thread above, which actually had some useful evidence provided by Torbjon, this new member iskander shows up and starts a thread called "ATS EXPOSED - hard facts included" in which he proceeded to make all kinds of crazy claims without providing an ounce of proof.

Now, at the end of that thread, I find myself contemplating - what a great intel move....introduce some lunatic who shares a common belief with other folks who are actively discussing a valid and reasonable topic, but one that you want to transform into a whole different type of discussion. Clever even.”

Pardon me, but I have provided proof, yet it was simply removed on the grounds that it was property of ATS. Have you looked at the files before they were taken down?

I do not appreciate being called a lunatic and by the way, who changed the topic of this thread from “hard facts included” no “hard facts NOT included”, cold it be the same people that removed the files provided in the first place? : )

So how about renaming in once gain to something more appropriate, “ATS EXPOSED – hard facts included but removed by the order of SkepticOverlord.”

Clever indeed.

“I've searched, read, and looked... and see nothing but rumor, innuendo, and wild conjecture from disgruntled former members who appear unable to let go of the fact they were banned from ATS.”

Disgruntled? I beg your pardon? I simply followed ATS T&C, regulations etc, while ATS moderators enjoy the luxury to do as they please because ATS rules apply only to members that happen to disagree, all while moderators are free to break the rules on regular bases, and just as with many other ex-ATSers, I was banned against all so called ATS rules.

You don’t have to search, the files that were removed contained clear examples oh how ATS mods simply ban with out warning and any regard for the rules.


Monsieur SkepticOverlord, I do recall the fact of our private communication via email, your suggestions on how to remedy the situation and reinstate my ATS membership, but regrettably I’ve lost a whole lot of emails during that period of time because my email account was under heavy spam bombardment.

If you don’t mind I would appreciate if you could email to the same email account since its been working perfectly ever since.

As you are most likely aware ever since my banning I have been contacted by ATS members via U2U and was unable to reply back, so I would appreciate at least a partial access so I can be polite and reply, since outgoing messaging of any kind is clearly disabled.

I am fully aware that ATS runs on a “closed circuit” template, that attempts of contacting ATS members outside of ATS system is considered as attempts of “recruitment”, that “anonymous” posts are screened for IP origin and post content, and that ATS moderators control all such aspects via a secured moderator only forum, but nevertheless I would appreciate a chance to be civil and reply to U2Us sent to my ATS inbox.

I would like to stress that I’m asking in good faith, that I have not made any attempts to circumvent ATS access rules regardless of how easy it actually is; therefore it should be clear that I hold no ill intent.

Again, Happy New Year everybody, for some this one is going to be a doosie (as in Duesenberg), but for the most it’s going to be a tucker (as in Preston)!
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