Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby torbjon » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:19 am

PhotographicMemory et al:

So lemme get this straight...

Johnny most likely saw the comments on that thread and u2u\'d Forest Lady for the link since Boondock had already been banned and he could not u2u Boondock.


So you're sayin' that Johnny asked her for something via U2U, she replied, and she got banned for replying... is that more or less your theory? And Johnny wanted that certain unmentionable taboo something because of... what? Why did Johnny want the link in the first place?

And him wanting it and her providing it defends Johnny how,exactly?

She gets banned for replying with a certain bit of contraband...

But he doesn't get banned for soliciting for and receiving a certain bit of contraband...

Forestlady? Where you or where you not U2Uing contraband on ATS or is the Johnny Canuck episode the Only incident? Anyone else ASK you for controlled stuff and /or did you ever just freely send the stuff to someone who Didn't ask for it?
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Access Denied » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:51 am

jah wrote:There was a thread authored today by Skeptic Overlord regarding 'freedom of speech'.

BWAHAHAHAHA…

[sorry couldn’t resist]

I’m afraid the current management of ATS couldn’t enforce a consistent set of rules consistently if their next paycheck depended on it.

jah wrote:What is everyone's take? Freedom of speech or censorship?

You’re joking right? The two aren’t mutually exclusive. What’s appropriate depends on the venue (e.g. who’s in the audience) and unfortunately some folks are incapable of censoring themselves so somebody’s got to do it for them… happens in bars all the time. :wink:

jah wrote:Once a neocon, always a neocon.

Sounds like a topic for our political forum.

remus wrote:I would have thought that a site like ATS that throws the word "community" around in everything they say and do would be appreciative of their members forming friendships, isnt that what happens in a community?

It’s not a community, it’s a business and the members are essentially free (and easily replaceable) labor. Digg this, Twitter that, you know the drill…

"ATS, ATS, ATS everywhere, ATS is nothing without you and you’re nothing without ATS!”

"Would you like some points with that?"

remus wrote:…risqué images… drug references…

Sure, AmKon has a chronic case of pot(ty) mouth but that’s besides the point…

The point is, if it were me (and it is me in this case as an admin of this site) I would welcome having an alternative site to suggest members could go to express themselves that way if they felt the need to… they can go there and say whatever the f___ they want and they can come here when they feel like having some adult beverages. :)

Why fight it? At least that way our members won’t be bugging us to compromise what this site stands for…

Now don’t get me wrong, we have some issues with AmKon over a couple of things but that doesn’t mean we feel the need to forbid anybody from mentioning them or being a member of both sites… how silly is that?

That’s like putting up a sign saying “Don’t walk on the grass”

[boy am I on a roll with the puns tonight lol]

Now Bill does have a (separate) point in that AmKon’s antics at some point may very well land them on one of the major black lists (content filters) that almost all big corporations, schools, and many businesses subscribe to in which case depending on what category they get put in (e.g. recreational drug use), any sites that link to them (as opposed to merely mentioning them by name) are at risk of getting put in there too. There goes your Google ranking and a big chunk of your ad revenue...

That said, obviously that’s not really what this is about… like pretty much every “explanation” Bill has given here, it’s a convenient excuse. In this case they’re irrationally (as outlined above) trying to stop the bleeding…

[damn, there I go giving out free advice again… somebody shoot me now]
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby ryguy » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:35 pm

It’s not a community, it’s a business and the members are essentially free (and easily replaceable) labor. Digg this, Twitter that, you know the drill…


A couple of nights ago, Steve and I were chatting about this (you've really got to get on skype at least one night a week man...lol), and we were going over exactly what you've just written above. That's such a true statement and accurate on so many levels. I mean, when you look at other larger sites that have user-generated content, they typically reimburse members for producing content or promoting the site. Helium, Associated Content, etc - they pay writers for spending hours creating content. Given...they don't always pay well, but they do make an effort to share ad revenue with members.

Now, one could make the argument that a forum is a social network where members willingly produce content for free. People log in, review what other people are saying on a topic that they enjoy reading and writing about, and if they feel up to it, they'll throw in their two cents. It's social (or "professional" as well, if you want to be anally semantic) network. That's how social networks thrive.

Now..ATS is a beast of a slightly different color. They've turned a social network where people willingly provide content for free into a business model where they seek to pull as much revenue from that free user-generated content as possible. The business model includes some ingenius ideas to get users to produce more content for free and to promote the website and increase website rankings for free as well - through "games" that encourage users to generate links back to ATS around the internet (Steve remembered that one), user "tagging" that gets users to generate keyword lists on the page for every new post for free, etc...

The business model is essentially centered around capturing people's interest in a topic, and their interest in social networking, and "encouraging" them to spend time and energy producing content and promoting ATS for nothing in return (except maybe a sense of personal pride and accomplishment...lol). It's a brilliant business model where the raw materials that produce the product are essentially free. The goal of the business is the bring in as much raw material as possible (new members willing to produce more content - regardless of the content itself so long as it is "clean and polite"), and to create as much revenue from that content as possible through ads, products, etc...

It's pretty fascinating to watch it unfold - although now that I've started working for various sites that actually reimburse content-producers for their efforts, I'm starting to feel bad for ATS users. Bill is right, the site isn't intended to be a social network (like every other online forum in the entire world), it was intended to be a content- producing entity. And that's the business model they follow, using free raw material (forum posts, podcasts, etc...) as their product. I consider it borderline unethical...but that's just me. And people are stupid enough to believe ATS is just another social networking forum, and not a business taking advantage of their content for their own gain.

-Ry
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby remus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:23 pm

ryguy wrote: I'm starting to feel bad for ATS users. Bill is right, the site isn't intended to be a social network (like every other online forum in the entire world), it was intended to be a content- producing entity. And that's the business model they follow, using free raw material (forum posts, podcasts, etc...) as their product. I consider it borderline unethical...but that's just me. And people are stupid enough to believe ATS is just another social networking forum, and not a business taking advantage of their content for their own gain.

-Ry


The only comment i would add is that if, as Bill say's it is not intended to be a "social network" why the big flashy friends list and member profile pages. That to me suggests that they are giving the appearance to their users of a social network, a community, as a means of enticing members to stay put and encouraging new members to join.
But as Bill pointed out earlier, forming social networks is technically against their T&C, except it seems if it encourages collaboration and generation of content amongst the members. ;)
Very clever and not something that the majority of the population there seem to have any clue about.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Mungodave » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:08 pm

Can I make myself clear (my first post this forum)


I dont care.


Not affiliated with anyone see my intro.

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby ryguy » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:44 pm

Mungodave wrote:Can I make myself clear (my first post this forum)

I dont care.

Not affiliated with anyone see my intro.

Dave


Dave says elsewhere:

No-none cares

But we do

Mungo


Tell you what - you pick your poison, and we'll pick ours. And stay out of eachother's sandbox. Capeesh?

-Ry

[edit to add: The above is 100% American-grown tongue-in-cheek.]
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Mungodave » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:09 am

Ah you noticed that.......should never have opened that bottle of red.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Forestlady » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:29 am

Photographic Memory, you are right and I appreciate you pointing that out. I had, indeed, forgotten about my public posts. And what you said about Johnny Canuck was correct, he's not a staff member and had no malicious intent in his actions. ANd yes, Endrun was the name I re-registered with over there. Endrun was also banned and now I'm done with them, not going back.

As for why I was banned, I don't know for sure, other than the fact that SO and Mark hate me because I sometimes pull their covers. I don't think my public post to Boondock was against T&C, all I did was offer to help him connect with his friends. Nor did I ever give anyone the URL for any other site, either publicly or thru PM, that much I do remember very well.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby torbjon » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:14 am

Forestlady:

Not sure I fully understand everything that went down...

Posting by proxy IS a no no at ATS and always has been... however if JC ASKED you for information and all you did was reply to his, um, 'solicitation', then you didn't post by proxy...

Saying you will pass messages back and forth and actually Doing It are two different things... there are no rules against Saying you will commit a crime, you actually have to commit the crime first

I do find Johnny Canucks involvement in all of this to be quite interesting though...

Again, just to clarify in my own little pointy head: He ASKED You a question via U2U and you replied to him in kind, then found yourself banned... is that the gist of it? Any other information you (or others) can recall regarding this incident?

thanks
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby pierreletrek » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:45 pm

I agree with all on this post! I (pierreletrek) was banned recently for trying to post material which I was given by another ATS member. Maybe I was naive, I think so! But it seemed very relevant. Not only was I banned but other users from my pc were unable to access ATS which gave me grief.

My question is to Springer, Skeptic etc, answer this, WHY! Did the info I recieved and posted hit a raw nerve with you guys? It never violated any T&Cs in my opinion but obviously my opinion is not allowed to be posted or voiced when it hits the ATS so called truth seeking owners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah right. :lol:

I still have the info Springer, SO, so if you forget I can re-post to jog your memory. :D A nice reply would be appreciated.

I,m not on a witch hunt by the way, but after a total block from you I feel an explanation would be appropriate.

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Bibliophile » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:01 pm

pierreletrek wrote:Not only was I banned but other users from my pc were unable to access ATS which gave me grief.

The very same thing happened to my family, which I reference in my introductory thread here. My nephew posted some silliness and the entire family ended up banned because, at the time, we all used the same computer.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby pierreletrek » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:22 pm

Hello Bibliophile,

thanks for your reply! I still cant log in but one other member of my family can. This person was told to police the computer so I cant log in but they can.

So as it happens I cant post on a truth site because what I posted was neither tried, tested, proven true or false.

As I said in my last post I must have hit a nerve or said something wrong!!!!! Doubt the latter but as I said an explanation would be nice.

Its ridiculous.

It seems Ats has become a money making business now, Robbie Williams is on board now. All they seem to think or say when the ATS name gets coverage in the news is " thanks guys ", not one thought about why we all joined the forum in the first place, IE intelligent debate and the like, instead twits and un-educated morons are the leaders cos they lick A** to the mods and become mods.

The last few months ATS has changed.

Did you ever know my name or profile by the way? I know one or two on here do!
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Bibliophile » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:51 pm

pierreletrek wrote:Hello Bibliophile,

Did you ever know my name or profile by the way? I know one or two on here do!

No, I am sorry. I do not recognize you.

I agree that ATS has become quite disappointing. There are a lot of juvenile threads being posted and a great deal of nonsensical discussion within them. It seems as though the money has opened the door to rampant stupidity. Quality has been sacrificed for quantity.

I only lurk there. I do not have the energy to fight another battle like the one our family fought there recently. The payback is just not worth the investment.
"When a true genius appears, you will know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him." ~ Jonathan Swift
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby pierreletrek » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:23 pm

Hey Bib

I have the energy and gusto my friend. I would like to know if what I have is legal as far as ats is concerned as I may post it! This would be subject to one other poster agreeing and I hope he/she is reading this and i,m sure is.

Its not ground breaking or ufo stuff but it does put the cat in the cage so to speak
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby ryguy » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:17 pm

pierreletrek wrote:Hey Bib

I have the energy and gusto my friend. I would like to know if what I have is legal as far as ats is concerned as I may post it! This would be subject to one other poster agreeing and I hope he/she is reading this and i,m sure is.

Its not ground breaking or ufo stuff but it does put the cat in the cage so to speak


Hi Pierre,

Please PM me, Access Denied, or Zep Tepi with the data and I can let you know if it's legal to post and/or who we would need to obtain permission from. If they are PM's from ATS, we'll have to have them paraphrased, as they can't be pasted in their entirety. If they are emails, as long as they aren't marked "private" you are free to post. If the email sender/receiver is someone who isn't "hostile" toward you - then it's always good email-etiquette to ask permission. However, if they are someone attempting to cover-up wrongdoing, asking permission is often futile.

Let me know if I can help you out in any way.

Best,
-Ry
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