Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Bibliophile » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:11 pm

Someone has complained about how ponderous the site is for nonmembers - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread379321/pg1. He has asked about making it easier for people to navigate through it. SO gives four reasons why it is the way it is, and this is number 4:
Favorable response from prospective interesting advertisers... those who would place ads on ATS prefer the new layout.

I guess it is all about the money now.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Access Denied » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:19 am

I think this explains what’s causing a lot of these issues…

http://www.mediamayhem.com/publishers.html

[from the Media Mayhem logo at the bottom of every ATS page]

Website Requirments:

Media Mayhem Corp. does not accept websites that:

Produce, provide or link to adult sexual, profane, illegal drugs or related and hate content.

Are under in development.

Have an excessive amount of advertising. [Err…]

Distribute or promote spyware.

Engage in, promote or facillitate illegal or legally questionable activities such as pirating, hacking, spamming and infecting.

Sponsor "incentivized clicks," or "pay-to-surf" programs, or use resident desktop objects such as bars and window frames. [Err…]

Are hosted by a free service, are personal home pages, provide free URL redirection, or do not own the doamin they are under.

Use timed banner rotation or other "auto-loading" methods. [Err…]

Generate less than 10,000 page views per day.

Apparently they don’t have the balls to admit to their membership they sold out… they keep saying they would never agree to (and in fact claimed they turned down) an advertiser limiting what people can post and engage in censorship of “free speech”.

Why not just say it?

We (RU) freely admit we don’t want that kind of stuff here… then again we’re not claiming to be the “champions” of the “suppressed”… we just want to be seen as somewhat credible lol
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Access Denied » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:48 pm

From the “ATS Issues” thread this gem…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4809971

SkepticOverload wrote:
caballero wrote:Can we get a quality control person to read through and allow threads to be posted on the front page?

No, sorry. Because then we'd need a quality control person to control the quality control person, and then another to control him... and... you get the picture.

However, I've noticed that as our daily post-count has been increasing, some of the most-replied threads are not necessarily a good representation of what's important on ATS any more [snip self promotion]. I've revised the auto-generation code of the home page to focus on the top-flagged threads (in the past three days) at the very top of the page... we'll see how this works out.

To which ”caballero” cleverly replies…

caballero wrote:Ahaha its an endless circle.

I think you solution will work out just fine. A true representation of the tastes of all ATSers, those who flag the threads at least.

Translation: We have an agenda here, it’s called the “management driven content ecosystem”… together with staff we have some 60 or more flags at our disposal… not to mention our sock puppets and we wrote the code but that’s besides the point… it’s enough to drive any thread we wish (or anybody’s that pays us for the exposure wink wink nudge nudge) to the front page to create controversy and turn clicks into cash.

You, the critical thinkers and hoax haters, have no real say here and we will continue to deny you the power to deny ignorance and vote with a “thumbs down” flag to counteract our hidden hand (and that of the blind believers and hoax huggers) thus forcing you to post your distaste for the threads we keep telling you to just ignore resulting in, ha ha suckers… another click! :lol:

[which now thanks to this new code modification doesn’t count either]

Kaching! Thanks for playing…
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby torbjon » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:34 am

Currently, if you follow a link from here to ATS you get the following message:

" You have followed a link from a website that often attempts to
present opinionated flights of fancy as factual "evidence" of
inappropriate activity by owners and staff of AboveTopSecret.com.
If you'd like to discuss such matters in an open and honest
environment, please visit the ATS Issues Thread. Otherwise,
click here to visit the page you originally intended to see."

IF you could follow this link directly:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread190416/pg1

you would be able to read these words by ATS site owner Mark Allin / Springer:

"ETHICS...

Ethics are a tenuous platform to be sure. They are required of those who are in a stewardship position like Simon Gray, SkepticOverlord and myself, Springer find ourselves in here at ATS.

What do I mean by ethical stewardship?

I mean NEVER usurping the truth to make a dollar.
I mean NEVER shutting out one position or perspective because it doesn't agree with ours.
I mean NEVER attacking another to make ourselves look better/smarter/more honest or appear to be a victim."

But you can't follow a link directly from here to there without first going through this message:

" You have followed a link from a website that often attempts to
present opinionated flights of fancy as factual "evidence" of
inappropriate activity by owners and staff of AboveTopSecret.com.
If you'd like to discuss such matters in an open and honest
environment, please visit the ATS Issues Thread. Otherwise,
click here to visit the page you originally intended to see."

Now then, they are not technically "shutting out one position or perspective because it doesn't agree with ours" because you can continue on to the linked target in question after being assaulted with their little message.

HOWEVER,

the line "opinionated flights of fancy" is an attack against the person, not the data,

AND

"If you'd like to discuss such matters in an open and honest environment, please visit the ATS Issues Thread." seems to imply that open and honest discussion is not allowed here.

In total the entire paragraph reads as

"...attacking another to make ourselves look better/smarter/more honest or appear to be a victim."

something they claim they will NEVER do...

and yet... they seem to be doing it.

Here super mod says "attack the ball, not the player"

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread229265/pg1

And here site administrator says it's OKAY not to agree:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread153383/pg1

But if you wish to discuss the Possibility that Perhaps the owners of ATS are or have behaved in a less than honest or ethical manner then all of that is a crock of crap. It is no longer okay to not agree. Ignoring the ball and attacking the player is perfectly acceptable. And attacking another to make themselves look better/smarter/more honest or appear to be a victim is now an Endorsed Company Policy.

I find this to be very interesting. Especially since RU is more than just this One little ATSWatch forum. You can't directly follow links to ATS from, say, the UFO forum or the Politics forum... ALL of RU, it's members, and it's content has been labeled "opinionated flights of fancy" by the staff and management of ATS...

Labeling ALL of RU with the "flights of fancy" tag is a rather broad brush... And as we all know:

" "Broad Brush Bashing" is the epitome of IGNORANCE." - Springer / Mark Allin
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread164078/pg1
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Chorlton » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:57 pm

I think what it boils down to, is, in plain English
Sprinkler and Septic are utter wankers.
They act like wankers.
They think like wankers
They post like wankers.
They react like wankers.
They run their site like wankers
They use only moderators who act like wankers
They have a site mostly full of wankers
When questioned they respond and act like wankers.
And to be brutally honest, they think they are wankers
Nuff Sed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:01 pm

torbjon wrote:Currently, if you follow a link from here to ATS you get the following message:

" You have followed a link from a website that often attempts to
present opinionated flights of fancy as factual "evidence" of
inappropriate activity by owners and staff of AboveTopSecret.com.
If you'd like to discuss such matters in an open and honest
environment, please visit the ATS Issues Thread. Otherwise,
click here to visit the page you originally intended to see."

IF you could follow this link directly:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread190416/pg1

you would be able to read these words by ATS site owner Mark Allin / Springer:

"ETHICS...

Ethics are a tenuous platform to be sure. They are required of those who are in a stewardship position like Simon Gray, SkepticOverlord and myself, Springer find ourselves in here at ATS.

What do I mean by ethical stewardship?

I mean NEVER usurping the truth to make a dollar.
I mean NEVER shutting out one position or perspective because it doesn't agree with ours.
I mean NEVER attacking another to make ourselves look better/smarter/more honest or appear to be a victim."

But you can't follow a link directly from here to there without first going through this message:

" You have followed a link from a website that often attempts to
present opinionated flights of fancy as factual "evidence" of
inappropriate activity by owners and staff of AboveTopSecret.com.
If you'd like to discuss such matters in an open and honest
environment, please visit the ATS Issues Thread. Otherwise,
click here to visit the page you originally intended to see."

Now then, they are not technically "shutting out one position or perspective because it doesn't agree with ours" because you can continue on to the linked target in question after being assaulted with their little message.


Actually i think they are "shutting out one position or perspective because it doesn't agree with ours".
Basically if you have been banned from ATS you have no opportunity to defend your position other than websites like RU, amkon and the like.
So this line "If you'd like to discuss such matters in an open and honest
environment, please visit the ATS Issues Thread is not given to open and honest discussion, i would gather that the larger percentage of folk that click that link have probably been banned already.
I would also not be holding my breath waiting for an answer if you were in fact able to post in the "ATS Issues" thread.
If you get the time, which i have done, have a quick read through that thread and see for yourself exactly how many questions and issues do actually get properly answered.
That whole thread is basically a deflection.
Instead of having a BB&Q forum with a whole bunch of negative threads regarding ATS they are now all lumped into the one thread where any real concerns/questions/issues are buried in a morass of butt kissing comments, deflective answers, attempts at humour and denigration of any of the OP's whose threads have been closed and moved there.
"Open and Honest discussion" it is not. It is a cover up of any negative comments/threads that appear on the BB&Q forum imo.
Imagine a new visitor/member checking out the BB&Q forum, instead of a whole bunch of threads asking serious questions of ATS owners and staff there is really only 1 thread now that appears negatively driven, and if the poor bugger starts reading that thread he will probably give up after the first 2 or 3 pages.
Perfectly deflected.

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby ryguy » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:33 pm

Maybe we should modify all of our outgoing ATS links so that it reads:

"You are now leaving a website where unbiased open-minded, skeptical analysis is allowed to be presented in a fair and open-minded way. You are leaving a website that does not allow charlatans and frauds to post the kind of garbage-without-evidence that has driven the study of the paranormal into the garbage heap that it is today. You are leaving the safety of true open-minded scientific analysis based on good, solid, evidence - to visit a website that encourages the promotion of evidence-less claims, unethical hoaxes and scams, and which practices a method of attacking and banning skeptics of those ridiculous evidence-less claims and hoaxes.

Just be sure to avoid pointing out the obvious illogical nature of the ridiculous stories that you are going to be reading at this new website, and you should be ok. Secondly, avoid speaking harshly about the site, or offending two of its owners, Springer and Skeptic Overlord, in any way - or you are likely to be swiftly and unethically stealth-banned without reason or warning (a very unethical practice for an "LLC") . Once you are finished reading the outrageous and moronic tales at that site, we encourage you to return to RU to analyze those stories in a scientific and logical way. Since hoaxters, charlatans, liars, and fruitcakes in general are not allowed to lie, cheat and steal here at RU - you can rest assured that your analysis here will be sane and level-headed.

Thank you for visiting RU - and we are confident we'll be seeing you again in just a few short moments.

-The Staff of RU"


What do you think Zep, AD?

-Ry
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:55 pm

What I really like is that now it appears that Springer has been bestowed the hallowed title of "discerner of real from fake documents." It is to laugh. Here, let me laugh just to make my point:

Image

Ooops. Guess that is not so much a laugh, is it? But it certainly is "the real thing", right Springer? :roll:

And the moral of this story seems to be: All I need to do from now on is keep telling people "I have seen it, and it is the real thing", and sooner or later people will believe me. Or not.

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:02 pm

ryguy wrote:Maybe we should modify all of our outgoing ATS links so that it reads:

"You are now leaving a website where unbiased open-minded, skeptical analysis is allowed to be presented in a fair and open-minded way. You are leaving a website that does not allow charlatans and frauds to post the kind of garbage-without-evidence that has driven the study of the paranormal into the garbage heap that it is today. You are leaving the safety of true open-minded scientific analysis based on good, solid, evidence - to visit a website that encourages the promotion of evidence-less claims, unethical hoaxes and scams, and which practices a method of attacking and banning skeptics of those ridiculous evidence-less claims and hoaxes.

Just be sure to avoid pointing out the obvious illogical nature of the ridiculous stories that you are going to be reading at this new website, and you should be ok. Secondly, avoid speaking harshly about the site, or offending two of its owners, Springer and Skeptic Overlord, in any way - or you are likely to be swiftly and unethically stealth-banned without reason or warning (a very unethical practice for an "LLC") . Once you are finished reading the outrageous and moronic tales at that site, we encourage you to return to RU to analyze those stories in a scientific and logical way. Since hoaxters, charlatans, liars, and fruitcakes in general are not allowed to lie, cheat and steal here at RU - you can rest assured that your analysis here will be sane and level-headed.

Thank you for visiting RU - and we are confident we'll be seeing you again in just a few short moments.

-The Staff of RU"


What do you think Zep, AD?

-Ry


Typical Ryan effort, why use 30 words when 266 will do...

How about:

Oops! It appears you are about to enter a site that fills its members full of s^~t on a daily basis. Do you want to proceed? Yes | No

If Yes print "Good Luck buddy, you'll need it!
else print "Phew, that was close!"
endif

See, easy... ;)

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby ryguy » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:40 am

Yeah mate...that's much better than your usual...

I was expecting the typical Zep:

"You're now leaving."

:)
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Access Denied » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:26 am

torbjon wrote:Currently, if you follow a link from here to ATS you get the following message:

"You have followed a link from a website that often attempts to
present opinionated flights of fancy as factual "evidence" of
inappropriate activity by owners and staff of AboveTopSecret.com.
If you'd like to discuss such matters in an open and honest
environment, please visit the ATS Issues Thread. Otherwise,
click here to visit the page you originally intended to see."

Thanks for posting that Torbjon, I had no idea those wankers were doing that. I have ATS in my “Restricted Sites” zone in Internet Explorer so none of their scripts or ads can run.

Obviously the owners feel their membership is incapable of thinking for themselves and making up their own mind so they must do it for them.

So much for freedom of expression eh?

mojo wrote:I would also not be holding my breath waiting for an answer if you were in fact able to post in the "ATS Issues" thread.

[snip]

That whole thread is basically a deflection.

[snip]

"Open and Honest discussion" it is not. It is a cover up of any negative comments/threads that appear on the BB&Q forum imo.

Good call Mojo, I agree. I find it ironic that those who are supposedly so opposed to oppression and being told what to think and how to act are so willing to submit to it on ATS. Ignorance is bliss?

ryguy wrote:What do you think Zep, AD?

You mean besides what Steve said? :lol:

I think this was the best part…

“You are leaving a website that does not allow charlatans and frauds to post the kind of garbage-without-evidence that has driven the study of the paranormal into the garbage heap that it is today.”
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