Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby JayKew » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:23 pm

I have taken the liberty of bumping this thread again.

S.O. said he would do his best to step in on the Clifford Stone debacle after Springer did a runner.

I also have some other queries regarding his reply of June 26th but I will wait until the Stone issue is resolved.

Maybe S.O. considers that he has no answers to AD`s demolition of Springers mess, maybe this is confirmed by his silence.

If not, maybe its time for him to reply.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby TheSkepticOverlord » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:43 pm

torbjon wrote:Mark says that as few as FOUR people could be responsible for making the decision to devastate someones life. (not talking about 'bruised egos here, talking about very real Potential Loss of Financial Gain, see my post here:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1331&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=135#p19374

I didn't respond to the post previously because I tend to think that the overall idea of being banned from an open access online forum might result in "loss of financial gain" is an absurd notion. And, if someone has been using ATS to cultivate offline professional contacts, that may very well be activity that conflicts with our Terms & Conditions.


I feel that your web site is still unsafe. I am not asking you if it is unsafe, I'm telling you.

Given that I've now shown you that it may be a Terms & Conditions violation to cultivate professional contacts on ATS, how do you feel it's unsafe?


I'm faced with two choices: I can try to work with you to increase product safety, OR, I can try to raise public awareness to the potential hazards of being a member of your community...

We've been as upfront as possible with logical answers to questions. However, those with preconceived notions tend to refuse our answers.




JayKew wrote:Maybe S.O. considers that he has no answers to AD`s demolition of Springers mess, maybe this is confirmed by his silence.

Like I said previously, there were a number of issues that would be vying for my attention this past week (and continue to).

I've tried to decipher the Clifford Stone thread here as best I can, but in all honesty, all I'm seeing are two different points of view...

1) AD/R.U. has the preconceived notion that "ATS is evil" and/or "ATS supports hoaxes" and his analysis does nothing more than support his foregone conclusion.

2) Springer/ATS is bringing another "controversial" UFOlogy figure directly to the members for questions-and-answers. His response to criticism appears to be from the vantage point that presenting Mr. Stone is better than not.

Perhaps it would be more productive (and time efficient) if you pointed out one of the more important aspects of the issue for closer inspection?
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Shawnna » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:37 pm

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:
torbjon wrote:Mark says that as few as FOUR people could be responsible for making the decision to devastate someones life. (not talking about 'bruised egos here, talking about very real Potential Loss of Financial Gain, see my post here:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1331&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=135#p19374

I didn't respond to the post previously because I tend to think that the overall idea of being banned from an open access online forum might result in "loss of financial gain" is an absurd notion. And, if someone has been using ATS to cultivate offline professional contacts, that may very well be activity that conflicts with our Terms & Conditions.



Now isn't it interesting that the 3 amigos take exception to ANYONE connecting with each other offline?

Whether that connection results in a professional affiliation of mutual interest to the connected parties should be none of their damned business.

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:03 pm

SO...

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:I've tried to decipher the Clifford Stone thread here as best I can, but in all honesty, all I'm seeing are two different points of view...

1) AD/R.U. has the preconceived notion that "ATS is evil" and/or "ATS supports hoaxes" and his analysis does nothing more than support his foregone conclusion.

2) Springer/ATS is bringing another "controversial" UFOlogy figure directly to the members for questions-and-answers. His response to criticism appears to be from the vantage point that presenting Mr. Stone is better than not.

Perhaps it would be more productive (and time efficient) if you pointed out one of the more important aspects of the issue for closer inspection?


Just read this response from AD (it includes the ridiculous statements that Springer made about Stone being "the real thing", as well as AD's facts that completely destroys such a belief).

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1342&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p19344

Why oh why has Springer been so SILENT since this post of AD's? Could it be because his foot is so tightly lodged in his mouth that he has no hopes of getting it out again? :lol:

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby TheSkepticOverlord » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:11 am

Shawnna wrote:Now isn't it interesting that the 3 amigos take exception to ANYONE connecting with each other offline?

It has nothing to do with your false assumption, and everything to do with the privacy of our members.

Back in 2004 and early 2005, we were hit rather hard with a few individuals and groups who were actively attempting to cultivate the email addresses of "like minded" members through private messages. As it turned out, at least one had ill-intent, and two others were most-likely well-intended, but spooked a few members nonetheless. Since then, we've had a strict policy in within our Terms & Conditions that expressly prevents members from such activity.

We know lots of members make personal connections and friends via ATS... and that indeed is a technical violation of the letter of that portion of our Terms & Conditions. However, we tend not to enforce this particular item unless we receive complaints of this nature (we typically get complaints of at least one person every 6-9 weeks who is attempting to get off-site contact information from members via U2U).


If you're going to constantly assume the worst because of your oddly twisted preconceptions, you'll find nefarious intent in every well-intended statement or policy from us.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby remus » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:34 am

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:We know lots of members make personal connections and friends via ATS... and that indeed is a technical violation of the letter of that portion of our Terms & Conditions.


:lol:

I realise it probably wasn't your intention to suggest that it is against the T&C of your site to make friends with other members, nevertheless, extremely funny.
Excuse me, i now have to clean up the cornflakes i just snorted out through my nose.


(ps, surely you understand that members of a hugely popular sub culture community are going to seek out other like minded individuals.)

{edit to add}

What makes that comment even funnier upon reflection is the fact that you actively encourage members to break your own T&C via "friends and foes" in their profile's.
Lol' is it just me that finds that really funny.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby torbjon » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:41 am

TheSkepticOverlord worte:

torbjon wrote:
Maybe S.O. considers that he has no answers to AD`s demolition of Springers mess, maybe this is confirmed by his silence.


Like I said previously, blah blah blah


*sighs*

Bill? Those aren't my words (again). Those are the words of RU member JayKew and they appear directly above your post:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1354&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=90#p19820

This is the Second time here that you've put someone elses words into my 'mouth'. The first time you put Your words into my 'mouth' and then replied to me as if they were my own, and now here you are doing it again with JayKew's words...

But there's no problem with that, right? These types of 'human error' mistakes made by the Top Level Personnel of ATS only happen here, outside of ATS, and could never ever ever happen Within ATS proper in a zillion years, correct?

okay... I see..... So, you are infallible, your system is infallible, and I guess the only option open to me regarding That particular issue is to take Springer/Marks signature file to heart and not argue with you about it. *shrugs*

Onward

Actively Recruiting versus Human Networking:

YES, using your forums for Actively Recruiting is a NO NO. Here is the rule in its entirety:
1 e.) Recruitment/Solicitation:

i) You will not use your membership at The Above Network, LLC site(s) for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not post, use the chat feature or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind.

ii) You will not use the discussion boards, the chat system or the private message system to collect or ask for the personal information (data mining) about forum members, including email addresses and "real life" names, in any manner whatsoever, or for any reason whatsoever.

iii) You will not post, use the chat feature or use the private message system to solicit members of The Above Network, LLC on behalf of another message board, online community or competitor. You will not attempt to use your membership to encourage or lure other members in any way to other websites or discussion boards in competition with The Above Network, LLC.

(from this page)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread6688/pg1

Okay, we get it, No Active Recruiting. Gotcha.

Human Networking equals Human Interaction... I'm not seeing anything in your T&C stating that Human Interaction (Networking) is a NO NO... I was under the impression that ATS actively Encourages people to interact with each other, has this changed? bah.

Bill? I Know you are not an idiot and it frustrates me to no end when you force me to treat you like my four year old daughter but whatever, okay, I'll play your little game and you can have hours of fun twisting my frustration into something it isn't and trying to paint me as the dunderhead I already Know that I am, so here we go.

At the time of my Unfair and Wrongful banning ATS really was the biggest, best, and most trusted and respected forum of its type on the internet. If you worked hard, were pro-active and positive and diligent a person could earn a lot of Points, maybe some of those nifty 'badges of honor' and hell, who knows? maybe even a groovy Title like EXPERT or MASTER or some such.

Those points and badges and groovy titles earned you Respect, not only within the ATS community but without as well. People would see all of those marks of distinction and go 'wow, now There's someone to be reckoned with'

So let's make up a factitious example. Let's call him Jmann, a talented Photoshop wizkid with a few friends in the 'industry' but basically a nobody from nowhere struggling to make a living. He comes to your site and starts exhibiting and demonstrating his skills and wins the respect and admiration of the ATS community. ATS gives him some points, some badges, some titles, and his own personal forum to work in and he makes an even Bigger name for himself...

Time passes...

Now along comes this HBO exec, and this exec notices the bright, talented, young Photoshop wizkid on ATS and says to himself 'self, I like this Jmann wizkid. I like his work, I like his style. We could use a guy like that in our media department. In fact, I think I'll let him know that...'

The HBO exec gets in touch with the Jmann via ATS and the Jmann says 'you know what? I'm sick and tired of being the starving artist, this sounds like a groovy gig, you bet I want the job with HBO and I have ATS to thank for it, woo hoo!' and they all live happily ever after.

In the above fictitious story the only "bad guy" (IF he could be called that) is the HBO exec... the Jmann character was Not Actively Recruiting... in fact, the Jmann character was doing nothing 'wrong' and by all accounts was being a Very Good ATS member...

Reading your post above, well, it Sounds like what you are trying to say is that the Jmann character is in the WRONG simply because he had a high profile position within the ATS community and that because of his hard work and the ATS publicity the Jmann character (not the HBO exec character) is EVIL, is that it? A T&C breaking SOB, how dare he! Is that it? Is that REALLY what you're trying to say to me Bill?

But let's continue with this Actively Recruiting thing... we Know it's a No No, it says as much in the T&C, and we can all agree that the HBO exec Broke The Rules, right? (not the Jmann character)

okay

So what about the staff and management of ATS, are they Above The Rules? Do the Rules not apply to Mark Allin?

You see, Before I was banned, way back when, this nobody from nowhere strolled into ATS and becomes a run of the mill normal average everyday MEMBER and starts making some posts. I reply to the guy and we kind of hit if off. We chatted online some, we exchanged some emails, hell, one night when I was feeling blue the dude calls me up and we chat on the phone for almost an hour. Great Guy. His name is "Dave Rabbit"... I'm sure you've heard of him.

Well, ONE of the things we chatted about had to do with the fact that he (Dave) was a little shocked and pleasantly freeked by the fact that Mark Allin 'approached' him and wanted to 'promote' him, his story, and to help him to podcast in a 'big way'...

Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but Mark Allin (aka Springer) IS a member of ATS, is he not? And at that time Dave Rabbit was also 'just' a member... and Mark 'approached' Dave with an 'opportunity'... an 'opportunity' with 'potential financial gain', I might add...

Query: Does that constitute 'recruitment' as defined by your T&C listed above? And if not, why not?

This is your General Warranty (from the T&C page linked above):

General Warranty: The Owners will make every effort to ensure the proper operation of the website servers, website software, and the Internet connection to these servers, but cannot guarantee availability. The Owners will make every effort to provide a free and open discussion environment within the boundaries of the Terms and Conditions that does not contain disruptive, abusive, or threatening messages, but cannot guarantee that all such messages will be found and removed within any specific timeframe.


(emphasis mine)

I got the shaft. I got hosed. The system and the ATS General Warranty FAILED for me. I lost over a Year of quality Public Exposure due to a hot headed ninny who couldn't see past his ego, deny a little ignorance and simply ASK first before Shooting, and it COST ME.

Now then, I think we all know that pretty much any other dunderhead on the face of the planet in a similar situation would jump up and down and shout 'you owe me', right? But I haven't done that (nor will I) and I get the distinct impression that that kind of ticks you off a bit, huh? After all, it would be sooo much easier if I were to just make this all about ME ME ME, huh? *laughs*

Sorry bub, wish I could help you, really I do, but this ain't about ME. I don't Care about ME. My gig is Over dude.

But what I do care about (Deeply, Passionately) is the Next Guy. The Next Guy might REALLY NEED what is Promised in your General Warranty in order to Stay Alive. (dramatic, I know, but such is life *shrugs*)

Both you and Mark / Springer have stated repeatedly that 'things have changed' but neither of you have been able to state just exactly what that change is. Nothing that I have seen or read indicates to Me that any type of change regarding this matter has taken place.

SAYING things have changed and DEMONSTRATING that things have changed are two different animals bub and you Know it.

I have asked Repeatedly for examples of hardware, software, or procedural changes that have been implemented since my demise and have received absolutely Zilch back in the way of verifiable evidence.

Knowing what I do about you guys I'm Firmly Convinced that IF such changes had actually taken place then you guys would have the documentation to Prove it, would Slap said documentation down on the table in front of my face, and say 'shut the F up', to wit I would...

But you haven't, so I won't.

Sorry.

On an up note it's really nice to see you again and I hope the holidays were good to you.

Laters.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Chorlton » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:18 am

TheSkepticOverlord wrote: And, if someone has been using ATS to cultivate offline professional contacts, that may very well be activity that conflicts with our Terms & Conditions.


EH ?? Run that past me again? Thats unbelievably insane!

We've been as upfront as possible with logical answers to questions. However, those with preconceived notions tend to refuse our answers.

Or could it simply be that those with preconcieved answers refuse the questions?
You are still so far from reality and what people have been trying to say here arent you?.



1) AD/R.U. has the preconceived notion that "ATS is evil" and/or "ATS supports hoaxes" and his analysis does nothing more than support his foregone conclusion.

ATS DOES support hoaxes. Your denial of that doesnt change it.
So you consider that the recent posting about someone 'Fighting with an alien in his bedroom' isnt a hoax? or at best a sleep/drug/alcohol related problem?


Perhaps it would be more productive (and time efficient) if you pointed out one of the more important aspects of the issue for closer inspection?


Here we go again. Obtuse in extremis
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby TheSkepticOverlord » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:59 pm

torbjon wrote:Bill? Those aren't my words (again).

Sorry... doing the manual copy-and-paste of text and forgot to alter the quote="___" part. Fixed it.


Actively Recruiting versus Human Networking:

The issue in question is a combination of recruitment and solicitation. ATS is not intended, nor is it designed, to accommodate an environment of professional solicitation and/or networking. In fact, the "no solicitation" portion is clearly in placed as a deterrent measure aimed at preserving member privacy with the intent of preventing persons or organizations from cultivating personal information about members.


...and it frustrates me to no end when you force me to treat you like my four year old daughter

And you're frustrating with these absurdities.


At the time of my Unfair and Wrongful banning ATS really was the biggest, best, and most trusted and respected forum of its type on the internet.

You're exaggerating two points here... your banning and ATS's stature at the time. While we've admitted we rushed to terminate your account, you did agree to the terms & conditions that indicate you may be banned at any time for any reason. Also, during that time, we were still in our growth phase and not necessarily the biggest.


Those points and badges and groovy titles earned you Respect, not only within the ATS community but without as well.

Unlikely, as most of the perks of points and the old "Way Above" aware were only visible to logged-in members.


So let's make up a factitious example...

Your straw-man example (seemingly based on Jeff Ritzman?) is highly unlikely, if not impossible. Someone eager to show of their "skilz" online would not rely on a site such as ATS, they'd use one of the dozens of professional portfolio sites and communities to do so... they might link to their portfolio site in their ATS signature, but they'd not rely on ATS. Also a "media executive" would similarly not rely on locating talent via a venue such as ATS... and would be more likely to rely on talent agencies or professional portfolio aggregators.

However, that being said, there's perhaps at least two-dozen somewhat similar occurrences over the past three years I can think of off the top of my head. In all cases, the interested party made contact via our contact form, expressed awareness of our Terms & Conditions, and asked us to be the middleman in seeing if a member would be interested in making contact. In most of the cases, it was a blogger or other interested party looking for more information on a particular post or similar "more info" request. In all cases, we forwarded the nature of the request, and connected the parties if the member agreed.


...it Sounds like what you are trying to say is that the Jmann character is in the WRONG simply because he had a high profile position within the ATS community and that because of his hard work and the ATS publicity the Jmann character (not the HBO exec character) is EVIL, is that it? A T&C breaking SOB, how dare he! Is that it? Is that REALLY what you're trying to say to me Bill?

Of course not... and it appears as though you're purposefully twisting a well-intended portion of the Terms & Conditions that have been put in place to deter those would would attempt to violate member privacy.


...this nobody from nowhere strolled into ATS and becomes a run of the mill normal average everyday MEMBER and starts making some posts. I reply to the guy and we kind of hit if off. We chatted online some, we exchanged some emails, hell, one night when I was feeling blue the dude calls me up and we chat on the phone for almost an hour. Great Guy. His name is "Dave Rabbit"... I'm sure you've heard of him.

This example is way, way off. Dave Rabbit was most certainly a "somebody" long before ATS ever came into being.

Don't believe me? Then believe Opie and Anthony:
http://podcast.abovetopsecret.com/atsmix_2830.mp3



I got the shaft. I got hosed. The system and the ATS General Warranty FAILED for me.

Wrong.
1) You agreed to the Terms & Conditions
2) We offered to reinstate your membership, you refused.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Shawnna » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:35 pm

:insanity:
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From the movie "Contact"

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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby torbjon » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:10 pm

Patience, perhaps a virtue, but mine is wearing thin... I'm sure yours is too, yes? Sorry about that. I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse or confrontational Bill. I'm going to continue to function on the assumption that you are not either and that we simply have great difficulty in communicating with each other.

NIxon and China, how opposite could we be? *grins*

Out of respect I must tell you though that unless some progress is made at least in the realms of communication if not actual tangible verifiable safety nets for your membership then I will be forced to leave the negotiation table and pursue some other, perhaps more radical approach.

I've been trying to work With you Bill, not against you. You seem to perceive the bulk of my communications with you as an Attack and reply in kind, ripping me a new one here, deflecting an important point there, and ignoring the other thing.

Obviously the 'fault' here is Mine, and I apologize for that. I seem to be unable to convey what to me seem to be some incredibly simple concepts.

Before I leave the table and order my minions to launch a full scale Attack against your organization for the gross injustices against humanity perpetrated by you and your organization I will first Attack you for real in open forum just so you and everyone else can see what that is Really like.

This is an Attack against ATS, its staff and management.

Thank you for correcting / editing your post but it still serves as a nice example of Libel on the part of Bill Irvine. The second one here at RU as directly related to me and gods only knows how many other times you've made flase statements or misquotes regarding important issues.

Next;

You have NOT produced Any Evidence, not one shred, to support your CLAIM that the post banning and perma banning policies at ATS have been improved. You have had ample time to fabricate evidence but seem to have chosen not to. Without evidence which can be peer reviewed (minutes from meetings, email exchanges, Something) your CLAIM is empty and has no meaning. (what's that you say Bill? You saw a Bigfoot? Really?? Did you get a hair sample? No, huh, hmmm... well, how about a plaster cast of the foot print? No, huh? hmmm... a photograph? not one of those either... Oh, I See, your good buddy and partner in crime was with you and he saw it too? Well, did He get any type of evidence we can look at? No, huh? All we have is your GOOD WORD that 'something happened', is that it? Well, gee, that sure is sweet and all, but without something Tangible your word is not worth the paper it's printed on. You are just another nut job making a wild claim with Nothing to back it up. Without some sort of evidence for folks to examine you are either Mistaken or you are Intentionally Fabricating a Story.)

You claim there has been a policy change.
There is no evidence to support your claim.
You are either mistaken or you are lying.

Next, Dave Rabbit.

Your deflection was Childish. The example is not 'way, way off', it's right on the money. You completely ignored the question so here it is again, Point Blank:

DID MARK ALLIN OR ANY MEMBER OF THE ATS STAFF APPROACH DAVE RABBIT AND RECRUIT / SOLICIT HIS SERVICES?

If yes, then you are guilty of breaking your own T&C which you keep trying to slap me with.
If no, then you are PUBLICLY CALLING DAVE RABBIT A LIAR.

The choice is yours.

I'm sure the answer will be the first choice, a nice long winded politically correct and marketing friendly tailored reply stating how it's Okay for the staff and management of ATS to completely and totally Ignore their own T&C for the 'good of the company' or some such, yes? Nice. Of course that will beg the question of What other T&C rules can you break whenever you feel like it? but we'll wait for your 'official' response.

Next;

Let's look at this one. In this one you attack me as a person and ignore the issue:

Of course not... and it appears as though you're purposefully twisting a well-intended portion of the Terms & Conditions that have been put in place to deter those would would attempt to violate member privacy.


Not even a nice try. Rather lame, actually.

NO. That is why I included that portion of your T&C in my post to you. You're T&C is actually quite clear and very well written. It makes perfect sense to me and I never had any problems with it.

YOUR words, on the other hand, do Not mesh with your T&C. You seem to be stating (repeatedly) that it is somehow Wrong or Unethical or Against the T&C for an ATS member to work really hard, earn respect and perpetual front page status on your site, to become Globally recognized, and then to take advantage of all of their hard work when some third party offers said person something of interest.

YES, the third party who solicits the ATS member is indeed breaking your T&C but that is not the point nor the issue. That is the Third Parties Problem, NOT the Members Problem. The Member stayed within the T&C. The Member broke no rules.

You (not your T&C) seem to be stating that the Member who works really hard and obtains Global Recognition via your website is somehow maybe perhaps breaking the rules when (if) some third party notices them and offers something of interest to them.

Please Explain that to me in terms that a dunderheaded moron like myself can understand.

One of your 'arguments' that I see in your post is the sentiment that there are perhaps 'other places' better suited for people to become Globally Recognized. *shrugs*

Ya? So What? What has that got to do with the ISSUE? There's better places to get porn too, and.... so what?

It's not even a nice deflection Bill, "Someone eager to show of their "skilz" online would not rely on a site such as ATS" *rolls eyes* Lame, Bill, Lame. They "wouldn't"? Really? Got some stats to back up that claim??

However, it IS a rather nice out of context quote to circulate online, dontcha think?

FLASH! This Just In!
Bill Irvine says "Someone eager to show of their "skilz" online would not rely on a site such as ATS"

Full Story at RU

Done.


Okay, that was an actual Attack, and I didn't even make a fist. Those were just childish little girlie slaps. Do you Really wanna play this Game with me? I will be more than happy to address each and every statement you've made if you wish but I hope that my point has been made and we won't have to go down that road.

Bill? In case you haven't noticed I seem to be the ONLY RU member actively trying to talk Peace with you. Perhaps I'm not doing it very well but I am Trying. I can tell you that I am NOT making any friends here with this 'peaceful' attitude of mine. Most folks are very involved and seem to want Blood. I've done my best to remove Myself from the equation and stick to nothing but the issues and facts... (ie. ATS has some problems and needs to be held a little more accountable than they have been in the past) I'm getting No Support here for my 'peaceful' efforts and you *sighs* What Are You Doing?

bah.

Duty calls, I go. Thank you Bill for participating in this forum and I hope to continue to see you in the future.

for now,
Good night, good luck, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby ryguy » Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:36 am

Bill says:

"ATS is not intended, nor is it designed, to accommodate an environment of professional solicitation and/or networking."

You really should have just said "solicitation" Bill...including "networking" is really silly, considering that you run a social networking website... I totally understand what you're attempting to do here - it's essentially sparring with words - but you just stuck it in your own foot.

From the March 17, 2007 ATS press release:

New York, NY - March 15th, 2007 - AboveTopSecret.com (ATS), a very popular Web site community for "alternative topics," announced today the official launch of its "Social Networking" tools for site members. "This new feature is a long awaited aspect of our growing community," says Bill Irvine, Partner and Community Director, "and the members have really embraced it quickly".

Adding to an already long list of member features, the social networking component integrates seamlessly into the custom-built discussion board system at the core of AboveTopSecret.com. Clicking on a member's name next to one of their posts brings you to their new extended profile that contains a list of their recent contributions, their site activity, their personal likes and dislikes, their favorite websites, lists of their friends, and something completely different, lists of their "respected foes."


November 20, 2007 Press Release:

The "Ad Above" package and "WordAbove" ad unit deliver unprecedented "outward facing" advertising strategies within a social network styled environment.


April 9, 2007 Press Release:

New York, NY - April 9th, 2007 - AboveTopSecret.com (ATS), an increasingly popular Web site community and social network dedicated to provocative "alternative topics," announced it has achieved more than three million posts of user-generated content on April 8th, 2007.


Definition of a Social Networking site:

A Web site that provides a virtual community for people interested in a particular subject or just to "hang out" together. Members create their own online "profile" with biographical data, pictures, likes, dislikes and any other information they choose to post. They communicate with each other by voice, chat, instant message, videoconference and blogs, and the service typically provides a way for members to contact friends of other members.


The entire point of a "Social Network" as it's defined in your own April 9th press release, is to promote the "networking" that you now claim in the statement above that ATS is not designed to do or intended for.

Okay then.....

-Ry
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby Access Denied » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:06 am

remus wrote:Lol' is it just me that finds that really funny.

No, it's not just you. I'm not sure which of these goes best with that bizarre post...

http://frogstar.com/wav/displaywav.asp?fil=twilzone.wav

or...

http://frogstar.com/wav/displaywav.asp?fil=looney.wav

Of course the only truly effective way to enforce such a policy would be to breach member’s privacy and read their U2Us and since Bill claims he's the only one who can he must be doing a whole lot of reading. :lol:

It's either that or they would have to employ a sock puppet Gestapo to "befriend" members on the "list" to see what they're up to in which case...

Trust no one!

Apparently a number of AmKon members and their sock puppets have been targeted for elimination lately and banned in this manner…

If they’re so worried about “protecting” members from other members then why not just eliminate the U2U system altogether?

It’s no wonder they have a policy of not allowing new members to send U2Us until they have so many points… it keeps banned members from contacting their friends before the staff has a chance to figure out who they are and as an added bonus it increases the post count.

That also explains the prevalent use of the “stealth” ban… nobody can complain if they don’t know you’re missing forcing you to subvert yourself and play kiss ass to get back in… they’ll simply ignore you until you do. Just ask Torbjon or anyone else who’s experienced it…

Resistance is futile!

One of the distinguishing “features” of a cult is controlling their member’s contact with the outside world… I’ve never heard of (what’s billed as) a social networking site doing this before but I suppose it was inevitable it would happen eventually in cyberspace too. Extending the T&C to cover who their members interact with elsewhere (and how) and in private is going way too far… can you say cyberstalking?

What next? ATS passing out virtual Kool-Aid…

[invokes the ghost of Heaven’s Gate for dramatic effect]

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:If you're going to constantly assume the worst because of your oddly twisted preconceptions, you'll find nefarious intent in every well-intended statement or policy from us.

You mean like ATS = Altruism + Trust + Sincerity? I believe Shawnna with her “oddly twisted preconceptions” was the first one to point out that steaming pile of doo doo… (read hypocrisy)

torbjon wrote:On an up note it's really nice to see you again and I hope the holidays were good to you.

It would be even nicer to see to see Bill quit whining and put on his big girl panties and deal with the issues that have been raised here constructively…

torbjon wrote:…I can tell you that I am NOT making any friends here with this 'peaceful' attitude of mine… I'm getting No Support here for my 'peaceful' efforts…

Pardon my selective quoting but I for one support your efforts here 100%… please don’t mistake my recent lack of commentary as anything other than burnout. I’ve got pages of stuff I haven’t posted simply because I’m wondering how many more examples of management impropriety do we need to get the point across?

I keep hoping one of these days Mark and Bill will raise the white flag and say “You know what, you guys are right, we do need to think about the children. We’ve been more concerned about growth and income then we have been about Truth, Justice and the American Way and we really want ATS to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Thanks for taking the time to point out where we’ve failed to Deny Ignorance. What suggestions do you have moving forward to help make ATS a more responsible Internet community for all interested parties?”

Sorry but from where I sit it looks that will be a cold day in hell so unless something changes real soon I’m thinking screw this…

Viva La Revolución! 8)


P.S. Bill, in accordance with the rules of this board, please respond to Torbjon’s valid question and call for evidence to support your claim that adequate protections have been put into place to prevent those who question the status quo within reasonable bounds of the T&C from being irrationally terminated, suppressed, harassed, or ignored.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby TheSkepticOverlord » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:12 pm

The above over-reactions are brought to you by The Jump To Conclusions Mat (tm).

As indicated, ATS was never set up nor intended to support professional networking/solicitation, and the T&C section being grossly misinterpreted here is intended as a deterrent to prevent individuals and/or organizations from harvesting user data.
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Re: Touching On a Few ATS "Issues"

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:25 pm

Bill,

TheSkepticOverlord wrote:The above over-reactions are brought to you by The Jump To Conclusions Mat (tm).


What is really ironic about that Office Space clip you shared is that, at the beginning of this clip the subject jumps to a conclusion that "bringing in consultants means they are downsizing Initech" and that people will be laid off. As it turns out in the movie, as you know, he jumped to EXACTLY the correct conclusion! :shock:

I see neither you, nor Springer, are going anywhere near the destruction that AD laid out with regard to the hoaxer Clifford Stone story. Nice. [-X
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