Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

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Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby MrPenny » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:49 am

One of the single funniest posts I've ever read...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4529351

The entire thread is a piece of doo-doo, but this single gem makes the entire travesty worth it.
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Deny Ignorance

Postby Access Denied » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:28 am

If this gem you posted there isn’t proof you’re on the payroll, I don’t know what is…

MrPenny wrote:Now I guess we might have some idea why some threads aren't dumped as fast as we'd like......we would have missed that little piece of genius otherwise.

:roll:

I noticed you posted this here recently…

viewtopic.php?p=19515#p19515

MrPenny wrote:Maybe it's a matter of lacking an actual definition of "Deny Ignorance". Does it mean to to deny it in a static fashion; by refusing to see it rear its ugly head at all--a "head in the sand" approach? Or dynamically, by inviting it....then "engaging" it with reasoning and contemplation in a collaborative attempt to reduce its impact on society and culture?

Considering you found this “gem” after only 22 pages [sure beats 220!] of doo doo which version of “Deny Ignorance” as you defined it above would you say this is?

Here’s the “official” definition…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/about.html

The Motto: "Deny Ignorance"

More than a slogan and deeper than a mission statement, our members have embraced the motto of "Deny Ignorance" as our reson detre, demanding everyone who posts to aspire to a higher standard of participation. These simple two words have galvanized a broad membership base that spans the spectrum from highly speculative conspiracy writers to staunch skeptics. The result is a unique collaboration of diverse individuals rallying under this simple statement to learn from each other, discover new truths, and imagine new ideas that expand minds.

This motto has life. It has purpose. It demands ATS members to think.

It is a state of mind.

It is a sense of purpose.

It is a statement against the paradigm.

It is a rage against the mindless status-quo.

The idea of "deny ignorance" isn't a goal that ATS hopes to accomplish. Instead, it's a challenge. A call to all those who come here to aspire to a higher state of awareness through informed discussion and debate.

Deny ignorance is what we do.

It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we listen.

Ignorance is the social disease of history that has clouded our minds and dulled our brains. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance.

We deny it. it's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.

Here, ignorance is denied.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit…

MrPenny wrote:I think the value statement "Deny Ignorance" will be argued for a long time until its definition is firm, agreed on, and shared.

It certainly will on ATS as long as their more intelligent members continue to deny that the management’s definition of being “politically correct” is to embrace, exploit, and profit from ignorance.

One thing's for sure, if this is what the world is coming to our children are f*cked...

AD

P.S. All your base are belong to us :mrgreen:
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Re: Deny Ignorance

Postby MrPenny » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:25 pm

Access Denied wrote:If this gem you posted there isn’t proof you’re on the payroll, I don’t know what is…


I'm not sure where you're coming from with that....can you clarify that for me? Maybe you just had a bad day at work or something.

Edit to add: That first quote of mine--that you didn't attribute back to the source; therefore, out of its context--is from a thread titled; ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality. It's a good thread too.....has much of the same sentiments found right here.
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby ryguy » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:03 pm

Ignorance is the social disease of history that has clouded our minds and dulled our brains. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance.

We deny it. it's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.

Here, ignorance is denied.


Man...that's a great quote. It ain't ATS though.

But it gave me chills because it's the reason I personally wanted to make this place succeed along with Steve...because there wasn't a single place we could find anywhere that truly sought to serve as an antidote to that social disease.

-Ry
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Re: Deny Ignorance

Postby remus » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:11 pm

MrPenny wrote:Edit to add: That first quote of mine--that you didn't attribute back to the source; therefore, out of its context--is from a thread titled; ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality. It's a good thread too.....has much of the same sentiments found right here.


Yes ive been reading that thread.
Interesting that Chissler or Crakeur i think, stated that they don't censor except for breaking the T&C yet Bill/SO has edited the OP's post to remove mention of another site, yet left the mention of GLP, the other site which was edited out was am kon?
Why would they delete the mention of one site yet not the other?
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby MrPenny » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:17 pm

Good question. I asked in the thread why Springer didn't leave some notes to indicate exactly what he edited. A first time reader will have no idea what was altered in that thread. I find it a bit disturbing that he feels he can alter a person's written words and leave no clue as to what he did, other than the obvious [EDIT] tag at the bottom of the post.

But.....ATS doesn't "censor" posts. Silly rabbit....tricks are for kids.
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby remus » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:39 pm

Sorry it wasn't SO who edited the OP but springer.
This is the original OP from user rasobasi420, bold is my emphasis.
Sohai selling out: Membership quantity over quality


I've noticed that Sohai has recently had a huge influx of new membership. Most of which post once or twice, then fade away. This huge influx seems to be primarily individuals who feel the need to point out that the US military should nuke all Muslim countries, or that black people are inherently inferior while pointing out out cultural flaws. They say that people with brown skin should be rounded up on the off chance that they're here illegally or that homosexuals and Africans deserve to die from AIDS.

There are even several threads dedicated to addressing why people hate Jews. And although I should point out that the OP in most of these threads did not advocate this prejudice, there were plenty of posters who continued to post racial stereotypes.

I have even known moderators to go so far as to quite because of the increased racism on the board. And it wasn't just the racist posts that forced them away, but the applause some of the posts received from higher ranking moderators.

And I'm not talking about our conservative posters in general. As a matter of fact, I'm friends with many conservative posters and respect their point of view and their ability to stand strong in a tough debate. But in general, they don't stereotype or generalize. There is a specific type of poster, and I think most of you can recognize them.

I know that Sohai is the largest conspiracy forum on the net, and I know that the more members we get, the higher ranked we are and the more ad revenue we receive. But the big question is:

Is Sohai selling it's soul for profit?

Should we be afraid of members slowly disappearing and taking the quality posts to 'GLP' or 'Am Kon'? Sure for every quality poster who leaves we receive 10 new members, but it seems to me that as the exponential increase of membership grows, the exponential decrease in quality follows suit.

What are your opinions?

This is the post after springers edit, bold is my emphasis again.
ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality

I've noticed that ATS has recently had a huge influx of new membership. Most of which post once or twice, then fade away. This huge influx seems to be primarily individuals who feel the need to point out that the US military should nuke all Muslim countries, or that black people are inherently inferior while pointing out out cultural flaws. They say that people with brown skin should be rounded up on the off chance that they're here illegally or that homosexuals and Africans deserve to die from AIDS.

There are even several threads dedicated to addressing why people hate Jews. And although I should point out that the OP in most of these threads did not advocate this prejudice, there were plenty of posters who continued to post racial stereotypes.

I have even known moderators to go so far as to quite because of the increased racism on the board. And it wasn't just the racist posts that forced them away, but the applause some of the posts received from higher ranking moderators.

And I'm not talking about our conservative posters in general. As a matter of fact, I'm friends with many conservative posters and respect their point of view and their ability to stand strong in a tough debate. But in general, they don't stereotype or generalize. There is a specific type of poster, and I think most of you can recognize them.

I know that ATS is the largest conspiracy forum on the net, and I know that the more members we get, the higher ranked we are and the more ad revenue we receive. But the big question is:

Is ATS selling it's soul for profit?

Should we be afraid of members slowly disappearing and taking the quality posts to 'GLP' '? Sure for every quality poster who leaves we receive 10 new members, but it seems to me that as the exponential increase of membership grows, the exponential decrease in quality follows suit.

What are your opinions?

[edit on 6-25-2008 by Springer]


So he basically has just edited out a site's name, but if that is against the T&C why didn't he also remove GLP from the post? Weird.

and a quote by the moderator chissler.
We do not censor points of view and we do not fault members for disagreeing with one another. We allow members to speak their mind, with the one expectation that it abides by the terms and conditions.


and this from crakeur.
Unfortunately, that pesky freedom of speech thing forces us to allow many of the posts that the staff would love to remove. We do our best to remove the blatant, obvious hate filled messages and I'm sure some do slip thru the cracks but, when someone says "(insert group) is the cause of all things bad" we tend to let them slide as the discussion of this so called conspiracy can serve to enlighten and there is no better way to combat hatred and ignorance than by speaking out against it with facts and data.



So i think the title of this thread is quite apt, what else gets edited from posts before people can read it.

And now SO has closed the thread after bobafett1972 (sp) and mrpenny questioned the editing.

I imagine by closing the thread they won't feel the need to answer your question mrpenny.
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby torbjon » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:26 pm

Nice example of selective editing...

Am Kon evil threat, eliminated, GLP non threat, endorsed.

curious about the 'Sohai / ATS' edit... As I understand it, 'sohai' is generic slang whereas 'ATS' is a proper name... that's a very drastic edit and changes the entire meaning of the opening post...

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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby remus » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:53 pm

torbjon wrote:Nice example of selective editing...

Am Kon evil threat, eliminated, GLP non threat, endorsed.

curious about the 'Sohai / ATS' edit... As I understand it, 'sohai' is generic slang whereas 'ATS' is a proper name... that's a very drastic edit and changes the entire meaning of the opening post...

crazy


I think that "sohai" edit is from the amkon site? It's how they refer to ATS.
I wasn't able to find the original post at ATS so got the OP's post from amkon and now that thread has disappeared as well?
Not sure what thats all about?
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby MrPenny » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:37 pm

remus wrote:
I think that "sohai" edit is from the amkon site?


Yeah, they run a script that replaces every instance of the string 'ATS' with 'Sohai'. "Sohai" is apparently some Asian insult or some such thing.
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby remus » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:51 am

springer has answered your query now mrpenny, imo it is even more confusing.

I was busy and forgot to add my "admin edit:" note that indicates I removed the promotion of a site that we don't allow to be linked from here.

I'll add it now. Thanks for the heads up.


The site wasn't linked i dont think, only mentioned in passing?
Is there a list of sites that can't be mentioned so that members don't unintentionally mention a "site non gratis".
If not, why not, i'd be interested to know which sites ATS have blacklisted from being mentioned on their board.

Here is the admin edit adjustment note made to the OP's post by springer.
admin edit: removed promotional mention of "site non gratis".


What does it take to be "site non gratis", is that in the T&C that they will edit posts based solely on what one of the amigo's determines to be "site non gratis".
Is this site (RU) "site non gratis" or OM or GHMB or any other CT forums.
GLP is obviously OK.
More double standards?
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby Access Denied » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:39 am

MrPenny wrote:I'm not sure where you're coming from with that....can you clarify that for me? Maybe you just had a bad day at work or something.

Possibly… definitely not at work but I *was* up to 3AM the night before working on a problem at a client’s site.

Maybe I don’t just get you… I believe you to be highly intelligent but then I’ve seen you defend some of the disingenuous statements SO has made here and it just leaves me scratching my head what’s up with that? Then you suggested "Deny Ignorance" was open to interpretation and now out of the blue you start this thread which I interpreted (perhaps incorrectly) to be in defense of the status quo at ATS.

I could be wrong about your intentions here (if so I apologize, it certainly wouldn’t be the first time I was totally out in left field) but let me ask you this for my own edification… assuming it’s true (for the sake of argument in case you haven’t seen the evidence) do you think it was wrong of Mark to refuse the exclusive evidence I offered him (a better copy of John Lear’s moon pic) and then ban me and lie to the membership about it (he said it wasn’t better or exclusive) when I brought it up in the open forum? Also, do you think it was wrong of Bill to a) not apologize for Simon Grey “accidentally” deleting all 450 of my posts of threads and b) not make all effort to restore them?

I would also ask you the same question about Torbjon’s case but that’s his business. Your direct and honest (no holds barred) answers to those questions would be most helpful in answering your above question.

MrPenny wrote:Edit to add: That first quote of mine--that you didn't attribute back to the source; therefore, out of its context--is from a thread titled; ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality. It's a good thread too.....has much of the same sentiments found right here.

No, it’s from your reply (two posts down) in the same thread There Is Not Any Phoenix On Mars that the post you linked to in your OP is in…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4529997

That said, in your defense, I thought your response in that other thread was brilliant and is reproduced here…

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4527798

[sans the PC “average” part, I would have said “below average” lol]

MrPenny wrote:
Anti-Tyrant wrote:their favorite website isn't up to scratch in your eyes.

There may just be enough of us to confidently say, "in our eyes.

But this is what happens when any media outlet attempts to hit the "middle" ground. As more of the "average" people tune in, the "above average" drop out. Why? 'Cause frankly, the "average" is pretty dadgum dense. And it gets pretty darned frustrating when you attempt to discuss, question, or refute anything when the response is the same brick wall.

The ability to contemplate on complex subjects, or use level-headed reasoning to form a conclusion is frighteningly absent in a huge number of members here at ATS. It's like trying to discuss nearly anything with a two year old child......they can hear the words, or in this case, read them--I think--but they don't seem to have the frame of reference necessary to "compute" what they've just read or heard.

ATS is slowly moving away from the round-table it used to be, and becoming a soapbox for the disillusioned, the delusion, the pissed, the weird, the troll.....whatever.

When the printing press became a common tool, and regular folk, with the necessary literary skills could read, discuss, and share ideas, a great Enlightenment occurred. Many years later television came along and destroyed the two-way communication afforded by the printed or written word. Fast bright images, repeated messages, and that odd biological quirk that causes a certain part of our brain to shut down when bright colors and lights are hitting our optic nerve, has probably caused more brain damage than any food additive, pollutant, or drug ever could.

Now that ATS wants to become more "popular" with its commensurate elbow-rubbing with "reality TV", "mixed martial arts", "who wants to whore themselves out for a few minutes on TV", etc.......the results are on display.

It took me a bit to draft this--trying to get some work done at the same time--so forgive me if it seems slightly out of rhythm with the rest of the thread.

Thus my confusion over your seemingly mixed messages. :)

You’re a school teacher right? That was good but now in the new “Sell Out” thread SO pointed everyone to I found this true gem of a post that REALLY hits the nail on the head in terms of what I see is REALLY going on at ATS…

[the proverbial elephant in the room as it were]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4534008

newday wrote:Most people are slow to realize they must think for themselves, they need encouragement and help stepping out on their own.

But people without a conscience are everywhere with their little spider webs laid out, just waiting.

What happens is we get trapped into not seeing that we are letting others do our thinking for us by these flesh eating devil bugs, I call them the children of enmity.

In my opinion this site is best for the sort of person who doesn't see anything wrong with making merchandise out of others.

If you are looking to build up a following, that you plan to eventually exploit and suck for everything they are worth, this would be a good place to ply your chosen craft.

Work at it post by post, attracting the feeble minded among us, then pushing real hard on that herd gene character flaw, you can become a secular version of a televangelist, a regular Jerry Falwell who doesn't even need to pretend to be right.

In no time you can have you hands on any drops of nectar left in them, that the other insects before you failed to extract.

Talk smack with your keyboard all day long, bending the minds of other people and convincing them to pay you for doing it.

In a reversed demented way it's a win win for you and the hive mind, the collective of corrupt nature, which malignant soulless things of the same kind everywhere seem to share.

Who knows, you may even come to believe you deserve their money, or you've earned it somehow, fair and square.

Hell eventually, altogether, if you're good enough at your hustle, you can stop even having to mingle or spread your net for the lower life forms that'll follow you around always wanting more.

You can spend your time teaching others who want some of your action how to get in on the game of exploiting and manipulating the weak minded among us, and retire to the good life.

Lord Hallelujah… FINALLY someone on ATS gets IT! I literally could NOT have said it better myself.

[I feel that way about Ryan too… a lot]

But as these things go, my enthusiasm was quickly dampened when I saw this mind numbing statement from Mark after Bill closed the other thread…

Springer wrote:ATS" can't "sell out" for quantity over quality, only the MEMBERS can do that by not posting their best.

Think about that for a moment.

I posted my best, it was all deleted and I was banned… no great loss I suppose.

[wait... do you hear that? that's the world's smallest violin playing my song]

Oh and get this, only staff can see the profiles of banned members now… you know so folks can’t see who their friends were and find their posts easily? Isn’t that nice?
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby torbjon » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:15 am

Oh and get this, only staff can see the profiles of banned members now… you know so folks can’t see who their friends were and find their posts easily? Isn’t that nice?


*rolls eyes*

So now we only have Billyboys word for the number and percentages of banned human beings and no longer have the means to make an accurate tally for ourselves, is that it?

Erasing Data is a GREAT way to deny ignorance in my book. mmph.

I'm sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, but when someone Hides something from public view doesn't that usually mean that they feel threatened by it or feel less than proud of it in some way?

Ask them how much traffic they get and they are quick to show you the reports...

Ask them how many human beings have been banned and.... they've hidden the reports?

Is it not such a statistically insignificant little number any more?

crazy.
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby Access Denied » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:47 am

Well, you've always had to be logged in to see if a member has been banned but the difference now is [as I understand it, I can't log in to verify] you can't click on their profile to see anything in there... recent posts, friends and foes, comments, etc. [not sure what all else can be in there]

Basically erasing their whole "identity"... you know like a cult would do to an excommunicate.

That's just sadistic... no doubt it’s a warning to would be dissenters.
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Re: Deny Ignorance [was: Please, read this before it disappears]

Postby JiveTurkey » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:13 am

In Regards to the Editing Out of AmKon Reference:


Their justification for doing this is that our site employed shady recruitment practices on ATS and now any mention of the forum must get the ax.


The only thing they leave out is, 99.9% of those shady ad practices were employed by Lori/Firestar/AccessDenied during the early days of AmKon.

Bill knows this, as does Mark.


Why is she still there when other members of my forum who didn't even come close to breaking T&C got the boot based on association and assumption??



In regards to Mark's Comments:


"Site non gratis"??


Then why do you and your hounds lurk for a good portion of each day??? And why are you so frightened of the word about AmKon (and RU as well) getting out?


While AmKon and RU have totally different styles, each site is far more user friendly and community oriented.

These are things that the money machine that is ATS loses sleep over.





Craziness!

J




EDIT TO ADD: In regards to the "ATS to Sohai" filter; One of my admins was responsible for that. One of his main motivators was not contributing to ATS' search engine rankings by adding even more mentions of the site.

As far as the meaning, I have no idea. I never asked haha.
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