ATS's Bill Irvine Complains to host about ATSWatch

[Zep Tepi]

I received this email today from my ATSWatch webhost.

To:shawnna@XXXXXXXXXXX
Subject:[#KMB-786936]: Complaint from AboveTopSecret.com
Date:Friday, July 18, 2008 9:17:11 AM
[View Source]
Hello Shawnna,

Please note that we have received the complaint from AboveTopSecret.com. They want to communicate with you regarding your website atswatch.com. Kindly refer the below mentioned email that we have received from them.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill IXXXXX
Date: July 18, 2008 10:17:25 AM EDT
To: webmaster@atswatch.com
Subject: atswatch.com

This appears to be a rather unfortunate escalation of overt hostilities.

What is the "evidence of unethical behavior and activities" as claimed on your ATSwatch.com home page which clearly appears to be designed for search engine optimization off our domain name?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hence, I request you to contact Bill IXXXXXX at xxx@xxxxxx at the earliest.

Best regards,

Marvin G.
--------------------------------
Technical Support
AccuWebHosting.Com
support@accuwebhosting.com

Web: http://www.accuwebhosting.com
Helpdesk: http://www.thehostingsupport.com
Forum: http://forums.accuwebhosting.com

I will answer Bill publicly here.

Bill - please see the topics and posts in this area of RU for your answer.

[Zep Tepi]

This is my reply to my webhost.

From:shawnna141@comcast.net
[Add to Address Book]

To:info@accuwebhosting.com
Subject:Re: [#KMB-786936]: Complaint from AboveTopSecret.com
Date:Friday, July 18, 2008 11:19:36 AM
[View Source]
Hello Marvin.

I have responded to Bill IXXXXXX publicly here.

http://www.realityuncovered.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1393

I appreciate you bringing this complaint to my attention. Let me know if you
have further questions!

Shawnna

[torbjon]

interesting. That page has been up for over a year now, too...

oh well, seems like the kind of behavior one would expect from a disgruntled RU member with an ax to grind, yes?

Speaking of optimization, has anyone submitted an xml site map to google for that page yet? Why only Appear to be optimized, right?

I know, let's have a GAME!! ooey gooey brownie point to every member of any forum anywhere who posts a link to the atswatch.com page!! Be the first kid on your block to win an ATSWatch Bozo Badge for your avatar or sig file!!!

[ryguy]

I know, let's have a GAME!! ooey gooey brownie point to every member of any forum anywhere who posts a link to the atswatch.com page!! Be the first kid on your block to win an ATSWatch Bozo Badge for your avatar or sig file!!!

Any forum out there (any forum owner/mod or webmaster reading this) who posts a link to ATSWatch on their forum or their website - I propose to Steve and AD that we, as a thank you (for fighting against intimidation and bullying), provide a link to those forums and websites in a brand new thread in this section. Maybe even in an article published on our main page?

Also, I will give 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 RU points to the person who posts the most links to ATSWatch on various blogs, forums, Digg, article directories, and elsewhere.

Best,
-Ry

[Zep Tepi]

Hmm, I received the same email, sent to both my Yahoo account and my RU one.
I also received a second email, after informing Bill that atswatch.com has nothing to do with me personally or RU, he replied by stating "Since it's designed to promote your website, perhaps you may discover who is?"

Um, forgive me for stating the obvious, but I thought the site was designed to highlight what might be wrong with ATS? AFAIK, the link to RU only appeared there after this section of the forum was started, i.e. long after atswatch.com itself came into being.

Cheers,
Steve

[Shawnna]

Speaking of optimization, has anyone submitted an xml site map to google for that page yet?

I wouldn't have a clue how to go about doing that but if you point me in the right direction, I'm happy to get it done!

[Cockroach]

Hey guys and gals, longtime lurker at both forums here. Bill complains about atswatch eh.

Whassup wid dat!!

Theres an old saying, where theres smoke theres a stink. I smells sumptin´ fishy here!

[torbjon]

Zep Tepi:

I coded those pages over a year ago as a freelance gig for some people (Shawnna being one). It was shortly after I coded this page for me:

http://www.torbtown.com/abovetopsecret.html

So that would make it around April of 2007 that those pages went up *shrugs* (hence, no "escalations")

They gave me a few updates to make to the pages back then, but I guess folks got side tracked or busy or something as I never received any more requests and I was too busy myself to pursue the matter.

A few months ago I received a request from an official ATSWatch type person asking if I still had the password to the admin panel as they wanted to make some changes. I did so I gave it to them. It was shortly after that the the link to here appeared on it.

So the link to here has been up at Least two months, more like three I think... so no "escalations" there either.

Anyway, that's what I know about it, no big secrets or sudden nasty attacks...

Bills continued reaction of Shoot First and Ask Later is getting kind of boring though. And childish.

laters
twj

[Shawnna]

I sent this to Bill via email moments ago and to keep all of this transparent am posting it here as well.

From:shawnna@XXXXXXXX


To:bill@XXXXXXXXX
Subject:FW: [#KMB-786936]: Complaint from AboveTopSecret.com
Date:Friday, July 18, 2008 3:29:27 PM

Correcting email address and resending.


-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: shawnna@XXXXXX
To: bill@XXXXXXXXX
Subject: FW: [#KMB-786936]: Complaint from AboveTopSecret.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:28:04 +0000

Hi Bill. I have responded to your concern publicly here.

http://www.realityuncovered.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1393

The information on ATSWatch has been up for over a year as you see it today - with the exception that in late April of 2008, I added the link to the ATS Watch forum at RU.

Shawnna

[Zep Tepi]

As stated previously, this site has been up well over a year with the exact same content.

The only recent change was to add a link to this discussion area at RU in April of this year.

I can't imagine why Bill is so upset now.

---

Admin Edit
The original email quoted here has been removed at the request of ATS.

Explanation:
Shawnna received an email from one of the owners of ATS, complaining about a "exceptionally strong and damning claim" Wrt his business operation, to wit:

there is evidence which suggests the owners of AboveTopSecret.com engage in unethical behavior and activities.

The email went on to say that such a claim "without substantiation" is considered libelous. Further complaints were made regarding the use of the "ATS" abbreviation in the domain name of atswatch.com, the use of the ATS domain name within the pages, along with the description contained in the content meta tags.

Bill then requested evidence to support the claims made by atswatch.com, or in the absence of such evidence to remove the page and domain.

The email closed with a statement along the lines of all further contact to be in private and the fact they consider the matter to be serious. -Steve

---

[Zep Tepi]

And here's how I responded.

From:
shawnna@xxxxx


To:
Bill IXXXXXXX <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx
CC:
"Mark xxxxxxx" <mark@xxxxxxxx>, "xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx" <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxx>, xxxxx <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "[xxxx] Simon xxxxx" <simon@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, info@accuwebhosting.com
Subject:
Re: [#KMB-786936]: Complaint from AboveTopSecret.com
Date:
Friday, July 18, 2008 10:04:56 PM

As stated previously, this site has been up well over a year with the exact same
content.

The only recent change was to add a link to this discussion area at RU in April
of this year.

Nothing nefarious Bill. Quit trying to intimidate me.

Shawnna

[Chorlton]

I think someone should send Septic Overweight a ladder to help him get off his High Horse

[You Can Call Me Ray]

I hope this trilogy is as exciting as Lord Of The Rings!
Ray

[torbjon]

I wonder if stuff like this could be considered libel as well:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single/4649726.html

"Rampant misconceptions and unchecked jumping to conclusions."

and I love this one

"once rational members"

WHEN WAS I RATIONAL!!! I RESENT THAT! *laughs*

[ryguy]

Shawnna - please fire off an email to any of us if you need anything.

With that said, keep the following in mind when it comes to silly "libel" intimidation. Libel can be legit, but only if a clear statement of "fact" has been made and no evidence can be shown to support the statement *at all*. I'd say folks here pass the test of providing evidence with flying colors. Secondly, there needs to be "intent" to cause harm. I see only intent to publish information and news as a public service - sort of like reporting misdoings of Enron in the Times.

Secondly, unless someone has written "private" at the bottom of an email, the legal precident currently states, very clearly, that when someone sends you an email - it is yours to do as you damn well please. If the request at the bottom does not mark it as private - the moment the sender clicks "send", that email is public. Any attempt to go after you legally for publishing that email will fall flat on its face. Your transparency in all of this is completely admirable - and Bill's attempt to subvert privately is also telling. Hold on to all of that evidence.

I'm very impressed that a year-old page you guys created has drawn such a reaction from Bill. Clearly ATSWatch is effective, and I'm personally interested in learning more about what makes ATSWatch so effective.

Great work you guys. And Shawnna I greatly admire how you always stand up to bullies without fear. That is one trait that really stands out. When a bully steps up - you get up and step forward, not back. I love that.

Best,
-Ry

P.S. - to everyone, in the future when posting in this forum, I recommend whenever writing about ATSWatch, make sure to make the word a link to www.atswatch.com. Thanks.