Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby ryguy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:31 am

mojo wrote:
Devils Advocate.

who decides who is sane?

:)


Maybe insanity is the wrong term to use. Let's put it this way - if it doesn't have something you can touch, taste, smell, see, or somehow quantify or formulate within this reality, in some way - then it isn't something that you should be claiming, outright, is "real".

A good example - I believe in God. This is an invisible being who supposedly rules the universe. Insane? Maybe. But I've not made the claim that God's existence is "fact" - it's simply a belief.

Insanity, for lack of a better word, rears its ugly head when people become convinced of a particular "reality" that they can't prove exists. They take the word "belief", and the word "fact", and smash them together without any reflection or respect for how we got to our current level of understanding about the Universe in the first place - through Science.

Not sure if that makes any sense - but thanks for playing Devil's Advocate. :)

-Ry
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby mojo » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:45 am

ryguy wrote:Not sure if that makes any sense - but thanks for playing Devil's Advocate. :)

-Ry


yes it made sense, and my pleasure. :)
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby Chorlton » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:35 am

ryguy wrote: That's the vision that we've got for RU. Maybe we should change our motto to "nutters need not apply." lol...
-Ry


Actually, shouldnt we be asking the nutter to apply? so that the daft theories and even dafter conspiracy theories can be put down and put to bed ?
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby longhaircowboy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:14 pm

Very good Torbjon. I had noticed that after Jeff decided to let me(cheepnis) head the FS that it wasnt long till he had his own forum at ATS. Guess the book deal fell through. And now that I can't use lhc or cheepnis there(banned for unknown and unexplained reasons) I've basically not given ATS the time of day. Which is ok since I have my own forum and a quite spectacular local UFO sighting that has kept me busy.

I say don't worry bout the nutters, once they see the level of discourse here they won't bother. They'll stick to the wacky world of ATS.
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby Mad_Hatter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:01 am

Wow, that was a good read. Well said, IMO. Simply put I believe that the main goal of ATS is indeed money. How can it not be? Bill has even said it himself. And the simple facts are, no matter how you cut it, ATS makes money from advertisement. What's the best way to make money from ads? Giving the people what they want. The more people that are drawn to your website the more ad revenue you generate. Simple calculations really. Anyone that doesn't see that is blind to the facts of how the ad industry works.

ATS has gone corporate, and in doing so, have sacrificed the interests of their members to the interest of the almighty dollar. They have sold out. What was once a place for alternative topic enthusiasts has given way to a corporate world of rules and regulations to abide by set at the interests of its private investors... and the dangerous part about it, is that it is masqueraded as being set at the interests of the user. ATS has become the very thing that they started out to discuss. A conspiracy. Tsk Tsk...
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby Bibliophile » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:32 am

This was a very enlightening read. Thanks, torbjon, for laying it out in a simple way. Certain things became clear as I made my way through your explanation.

ATS continues to disappoint. :(
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby torbjon » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:32 pm

lost_shaman:

You know I love it when you 'keep me honest'. Usually when you and I 'bump heads' we end up with positive results. So let's see, out of Alla that crap I wrote you're choosing to pick nits with this concept:

Prior to ATS involvement with the O'Hare UFO story, nobody cared about it. It was a non-event, not worth the internet or the media's time.

After ATS involvement with the O'Hare UFO story, it was a major event - discussed widely across the internet and covered by all branches of media across the globe.


yes?

Okay, let's chat that. As I recall, YOU were there at the time, as was I and many other people. NONE of us were aware of the story. We had to Hunt for news clips. Reading the thread you can see it... things like "I just found this, I just found that" etc.

Here's what Eyewitness said about the media coverage back then:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single/2933628.html

Even I, who live in the Chicago area and watch Chicago TV news, didn't realize that the O'Hare sighting had gotten any media attention whatsoever until after the Tribune article, when I saw mention of the article listed among the stories on MSNBC or some similar site. In other words, if I didn't at least spend a little time online and get some or most of my news from online sites, even I wouldn't have known that others saw and reported this object. I really do suspect that some witnesses --- even local ones --- simply haven't been exposed to the publicity. This is a big deal here, and it's a big deal to me, but even locally many people haven't seen a single story or heard a single word about the sighting.


Nobody Knew About It.

Query:
When The Towers got hit, did you have to hunt for news about it?
When O.J. ran, did you have to hunt for news about it?
When Exxon Valdez went aground, did you have to hunt for news about?
When Brittany does Anything do you have to hunt for news about it?

YES, there was mention of the story prior to ATS involvement. A little. Here and there. Not a lot though.

I think trying to claim "already major event" is stretching it comrade... "major" implies "hit upside the head" not "I have to hunt for it", ya know? Yes, in Hindsight and After The Fact, looking at all the little bits that the media released prior to ATS involvement it does add up to some "okay" media coverage... but MAJOR coverage?? If THAT was "major" coverage how do you classify 9/11 coverage? Seriously.

Ponder that and get back to me.

In the meantime, I'll tell you what Really turned me on about your post. It was this line:

lost_shaman wrote:
There were 35 posts made on Jan. 1st, 2007 between 6:16 pm and midnight!


Ya Baby! A Tally!! I never thought about doing a tally.

So let's do a tally, shall we? But why stop at just one day?? Let's do the whole freeking thing and see what we can see...
===
A Tally of the O'Hare thread on ATS

8-12-2006 two posts
9-12-2006 six posts
10-12-2006 two posts

That's it for 2006 on ATS.

New Years Day, 2007 (national holiday and a Monday)

1-1-2007

cyberdude78 1 post
snafu7700 4 posts
classified_material 4 posts
Mechanic_32 6 posts
niteboy82 1post
SkyWay 4 posts
whatukno 1 post
Atomic 2 post
Reptilianseerrr 2 posts
Graystar 1 post
dOmeshoT 1 post
surfinguru 1 post
Palasheea 1 post
Nightowl 1 post
homeskillet 1 post
Megadeth 1 post
Semiazas 2 posts
TrappedSoul 1 posts

Total 35 posts, 18 people.
===

2-1-2007 (technically not a holiday but many folks had or took the day off, also the first FULL day of posting since the story 'started up' again)

Zarniwoop 1
Echtelion 1
Chicagoist 1
lOrdsOfChaOs 2
amongus 1
funky_monk 1
Nicotine1982 1
DeepSecrets 1
netron 1
HaveSeen4Myself 1
VoXiSo 2
ThichHeaded 1
Matyas 1
semperfortis 1
Cybernative 3
Huria86 1
Imzadi 1
snafu7700 10
classified_material 7
surrender_dorothy 1
Wig 2
Nightowl 1
super70 2
jtma508 2
spines 1
c3hamby 1
ferretman2 2
dgtempe 1
DimensionalDetective 1
Mushroom_Fields_Forever 1
WickedStar 1
subz 1
Nemithesis 1
Fiverz 4
infinite 1
c3hamby 1
Funkydung 3
knows_but_doesnt 1
SkyWay 1
Palasheea 1
Scramjet76 1
annestacey 1
Shadowbear 1
fooffstarr 1
homeskillet 1
Xeven 1
kleverone 1

total 75 posts, 47 people

===

3-1-2007

Saviour_Of_The_Real 3
lost_shaman 2
knows_but_doesnt 2
Scramjet76 2
The_Parallelogram 1
mbkennel 2
Essan 2
snafu7700 7
crowpruitt 3
SkyWay 5
whos_out_there 2
Gazrok 1
Reptilianseerrr 1
Fiverz 1
xEphon 1
masterp 1
Eternal_Question 1
eaglewingz 2
Twiggie 1
Palasheea 1
Ekilo 2
Siren 1
annestacey 2
Nightowl 2
ZoooMer 1

total 49 posts, 25 people.

===

4-1-2007

amongus 1
Savior_Of_The_Real 1
funky_monk 1
Schaden 2
badwOlf 1
jtma508 1
codylawyer99 1
snafu7700 1
Lost_Mind 1
Realtruth 1
Atomic 1
Fiverz 2
chiS2000 3
pompano 2
Mechanic_32 1
homeskillet 1

total 21 posts, 16 people.

===

5-1-2007 (Friday)

amongus 3
Scramjet76 1
snafu7700 3
Realtruth 2
Ectoterrestrial 2
Cybernative 2
Order_Out_Of_Chaos 1
Fiverz 4
Cybernative 1
Gazrok 1
DarkSide 1
fooffstarr 1
SkyWay 1
Esoteric_Teacher 1
homeskillet 1
jra 1

Total 26 posts, 16 people.

===

6-1-2007 (Saturday)

violet 1
Agent47 1
TrentReznor 2
Saviour_Of_The_Real 1
Palasheea 2
Drexon 1
antmax23 2
Cybernative 1
Realtruth 1
Flatwoods 1

Total 13 posts, 10 people.

===

7-1-2007 (Sunday)

violet 4
homeskillet 1
antmax23 1
lost_shaman 3
Great_White_Cheney 1
Flatwoods 1
Alien_Gamer 1
Drexon 1
Palasheea 1
pompano 1

total 15 posts, 10 people.

===

8-1-2007

violet 1
Sr_Wing_Commander 1
Palasheea 1
lost_shaman 2
Saviour_Of_The_Real 1

total 6 posts, 5 people.

9-1-2007

Saviour_Of_The_Real 2
lost_shaman 2
snafu7700 1
selfless 1

total 6 posts, 4 people.

10-1-2007

snafu7700 1
Damocles 1
Order_Out_Of_Chaos 1
violet 1
Realtruth 1
amongus 1
leira7 1
Palasheea 1

total 8 posts, 8 people

===

11-1-2007

Miah 4
Atomic 1
lost_shaman 1
Hamking 1
ferretman2 1
phanton 1
selfless 1
DarkAlex 1
Realtruth 1
fooffstarr 1

total 13 posts, 10 people.

===

12-1-2007 (Friday)

Hamking 1
Miah 1
Drexon 1
Nicotine1982 1
phantom702 1
Gazrok 1
funky_monk 1

total 7 posts, 7 people.

13-1-2007 (Saturday)

Drexon 1
SkyWay 1
Miah 1
Nicotine1982 1

total 4 posts, 4 people.

===
Note: Notice the rather steady decline of interest, posts, and people involved, summary of the above follows:
===

01-1 35 posts by 18 people (half day) (Monday)
02-1 75 posts by 47 people (first full day)
03-1 49 posts by 25 people
04-1 21 posts by 16 people
05-1 26 posts by 16 people (Friday)
06-1 13 posts by 10 people (Saturday)
07-1 15 posts by 10 people (Sunday)
08-1 6 posts by 5 people
09-1 6 posts by 4 people
10-1 8 posts by 8 people
11-1 13 posts by 10 people
12-1 7 posts by 7 people (Friday)
13-1 4 posts by 4 people (Saturday)

People Are Losing Interest!

Which brings us up to the day that rampagentX entered the forum.

rampagentX claims to have been referred to ATS by "a friend" but expresses concern for his/her safety "Can they trace me here?"

The "friend" is obviously aware of ATS enough to suggest to rampagentX to share his/her story with ATS, but not aware enough to suggest that rampagentX bypass open forum and go straight to the Amigos with private and confidential data.

Mod Majic comes in and offers the ability to share data privately and securely but rampagentX seems to decline that offer of safety and security and continues to post in open forum despite original concerns for personal safety.

===========
interlude:

AND THE BEAT GOES ON!!
Teeny Bopper is our New Born King!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGc9comHypk

end interlude.

===========

Continuing from the 14th

14-1-2007 22 posts (Sunday) (rampagentX joins the discussion)

15-1-2007 60 posts

16-1-2007 54 posts

17-1-2007 40 posts

18-1-2007 38 posts (Note: This is the day of rampagentx last post. He/She concludes their post with this line: "I'll shut up and watch for now."

19-1-2007 9 posts (Friday) (Note: According to their user profile, this is the last day that rampagentX visited ATS. They did not post on this day or Ever Again. rampagentX is now done with ATS.)

20-1-2007 4 posts (Saturday)

21-1-2007 2 posts (Sunday)

22-1-2007 1 post (Monday)

===
Note: This thread seems to be Dying without the continued support of rampagentX.
===

23-1-2007 39 posts (The Picture Arrives!)

24-1-2007 280 posts

25-1-2007 212 posts

26-1-2007 156 posts (Friday) ("Eyewitness" Arrives!)

27-1-2007 131 posts (Saturday) + 1 (SkepticOverlord inserts new summary post at begining of thread)

28-1-2007 159 posts (Sunday)

29-1-2007 89 posts

30-1-2007 83 posts

31-1-2007 74 posts

=====

1-2-2007 31 posts

2-2-2007 54 posts (Friday)

3-2-2007 23 posts (Saturday)

====
Note: the thread seems to more or less DIE right here, on Saturday, February 3rd, 2007.
====

4-2-2007 7 posts (Sunday)

5-2-2007 5 posts

6-2-2007 20 posts

7-2-2007 8 posts (This is the Last post by Eyewitness on ATS)

8-2-2007 1 post

10-2-2007 4 posts (Saturday)

11-2-2007 1 post (Sunday)

12-2-2007 2 posts

13-2-2007 1 post

17-2-2007 17 posts (Saturday)

18-2-2007 1 post (Sunday)

19-2-2007 11 posts (This is Eyewitness's last visit to ATS. It has been implied that Eyewitness died of natural causes. Despite being 'vetted' by Springer and Jeff Ritzmann there is no confirmation of the death claim via obituary checks and Eyewitness's details are never released for peer review. Also note that this is 12 days after her last post.)

20-2-2007 1 post

21-2-2007 8 posts

22-2-2007 4 posts

23-2-2007 12 posts

24-2-2007 19 posts

25-2-2007 6 posts

26-2-2007 7 posts

=====

2-3-2007 1 post

8-3-2007 8 posts

9-3-2007 1 post

12-3-2007 1 post

15-3-2007 3 posts

17-3-2007 3 posts

20-3-2007 1 post

24-3-2007 1 post

25-3-2007 1 post

27-3-2007 4 posts

28-3-2007 1 post

31-3-2007 4 posts

=====

3-4-2007 1 post

4-4-2007 1 post

6-4-2007 3 posts

13-4-2007 2 posts

22-4-2007 1 post (also SkepticOverlord Edits opening summary post)

23-4-2007 1 post

24-4-2007 7 posts

======

6-5-2007 2 posts

9-5-2007 4 posts

10-5-2007 1 post

12-5-2007 2 posts

13-5-2007 1 post

26-5-2007 2 posts

27-5-2007 1 post

29-5-2007 1 post

===

There are NO entries for June of 2007

===

11-7-2007 1 post

12-7-2007 5 posts

13-7-2007 4 posts

===

13-8-2007 1 post

14-8-2007 11 posts

15-8-2007 4 posts

16-8-2007 2 posts

17-8-2007 6 posts

18-8-2007 4 posts

19-8-2007 1 post

20-8-2007 1 post

24-8-2007 2 posts

25-8-2007 3 posts

===

28-9-2007 2 posts

30-9-2007 1 post

===

12-10-2007 4 posts

26-10-2007 6 posts

===

25-11-2007 1 post

26-11-2007 1 post

27-11-2007 1 post

===

30-12-2007 5 posts

31-12-2007 3 posts

===

3-1-2008 1 post

8-1-2008 1 post

9-1-2008 3 posts

10-1-2008 1 post

13-1-2008 1 post

19-1-2008 2 posts

20-1-2008 2 posts

===

2-2-2008 3 posts

3-2-2008 4 posts

5-2-2008 2 posts

6-2-2008 3 posts

7-2-2008 4 posts

8-2-2008 1 post

12-2-2008 1 post

16-2-2008 1 post

===

3-3-2008 1 post

21-3-2008 2 posts

23-3-2008 1 post

24-3-2008 4 posts

===

1-4-2008 1 post

===

1-5-2008 2 posts

15-5-2008 1 post

16-5-2008 2 posts

===

5-6-2008 1 post

13-6-2008 2 posts

===

19-7-2008 3 posts

28-7-2008 2 posts

===

and that brings us up to Now, 3-8-2008.

Tallies are Fun, huh? Let's play with the numbers a bit...

Prior to rampagentX we have a total of 288 posts. Number of those posts made by (Springer+SkepticOverlord+Jritzmann) = 0. "Involvement / Guidance" factor = 0%)


The rampagentX section: 14-1-2007 through 18-1-2007 = 214 posts. Number of those posts made by
(Springer(2 posts)+SkepticOverlord+Jritzmann) = 2. "Involvement / Guidance" factor is nominal (2 / 214 = 0.009 or 0.9%)


The Picture and Eyewitness coincide. Between 26-1-2007 and 31-1-2007 Eyewitness made 80 posts, all in the O'Hare thread. From 1-2-2007 to 7-2-2007 Eyewitness made 7 posts, 5 in the O'Hare thread, one in More Anonymous Chicago UFO images, and one in ATS Dark Matter Revisited. I feel that the 'experiment / demonstration' in the hypothetical scenario we are discussing came to a conclusion on 31-1-2007 so I'll use that range of numbers.

From 19-1-2007 to 31-1-2007 we have 1239 posts. Number of posts made by
(Springer (26 posts)+SkepticOverlord(14 posts)+Jritzman(57posts)) = 97 "Involvement / Guidance" factor is now measurable ( 97 / 1239 = 0.0782 or 7.82%. Almost 8% of that section of the thread was generated by those three people, 4.60% of that section was generated by Jeff Ritzmann, 2.09% by Springer, and 1.12% by SkepticOverlord.)

The entire rest of the thread:

From 1-2-2007 to 28-7-2008 = 423 posts. Number of posts made by
(Springer(20)+SkepticOverlord(8)+Jeff Ritzmann(11)) = 39 (39 / 423 = 0.092 or 9.21% They are really staying on top of it, even now)


Okay, fine, SO WHAT?, right? Out of context that tally doesn't really mean alla that much, so let's compare it to some other UFO threads:


"Another NASA employee comes forward 8-9 FOOT ALIEN SIGHTED"
502 posts, 0% "Involvement / Guidance" by an amigo

"Celebrity stargazing"
338 posts, 0% "Involvement / Guidance" by an amigo

"Starlike objects that move strangely in the sky"
(multiple witnesses, lots of video footage)
434 posts, 0% "Involvement / Guidance" by an amigo

(this one is from way back, started in 2004, still getting posts in 2007)
"Landed flying saucers from earlier today"
(many fuzzy pictures, very chatty and open witness who provides even More pictures upon request, also some chit chat about smoking grass, shame shame)
356 posts, 0% "Involvement / Guidance" by an amigo

O'Hare though... O'Hare they had their finger in, and they still keep a close eye on it.

During the course of that discussion on ATS S.O. had this to say about The Picture:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single/2932148.html
So if this image is faked (I think it is), it's perhaps the most unusual fake we've ever seen... which leads to an interesting question... why?


why indeed...

WHO benefited the Most from that picture? Was it GLP? MSN? CNN? ABC? CBS? HBO? Or was it some other three letter group we can't link to from here anymore?

Shaman, I love you man, you know I do. Not trying to cross you or dis you. Get back to me about the 'major' thing and let me know what You think of the tally... does it tell anything or is it just a big waste o' time? Thanks dude.

To everyone else,
Good night, good luck, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby Bibliophile » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:51 pm

torbjon, your analysis is blowing me away. You have really spent some time on this. I am math-stupid, so that part of it escapes me because I refuse to think that hard, but your month-by-month spreadsheet works for me.

What a shame things ended up as they have over there.
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby ryguy » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:40 am

Now - you all know I am not exactly a man of few words.

But Torb...all I gotta say to the above post is... Damn.

-Ry
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby moomin » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:24 am

That's excellent analysis there - well done. I love facts and figures, they're so much fun to play with.

Now here's a challenge for you - run some facts and figures on how many times the Third Amigo, THE founder of the site and now co-owner Simon, has posted in the last year (hint - It won't take very long.) What exactly does he do on his beloved site now? Perhaps they ought to change their names from being the Three Amigos to the Little and Large Show :wink:
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby lost_shaman » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:38 pm

torbjon wrote:
Okay, let's chat that. As I recall, YOU were there at the time, as was I and many other people. NONE of us were aware of the story. We had to Hunt for news clips. Reading the thread you can see it... things like "I just found this, I just found that" etc.

Here's what Eyewitness said about the media coverage back then:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single/2933628.html

Even I, who live in the Chicago area and watch Chicago TV news, didn't realize that the O'Hare sighting had gotten any media attention whatsoever until after the Tribune article, when I saw mention of the article listed among the stories on MSNBC or some similar site. In other words, if I didn't at least spend a little time online and get some or most of my news from online sites, even I wouldn't have known that others saw and reported this object. I really do suspect that some witnesses --- even local ones --- simply haven't been exposed to the publicity. This is a big deal here, and it's a big deal to me, but even locally many people haven't seen a single story or heard a single word about the sighting.


Nobody Knew About It.


Torbjon, you rock! I mean that.

However, not everything is always as it seems.It appears that Peter Davenport may have broke an agreement w/ NARCAP to keep the "O'Hare" sighting under wraps by posting 'eye-witness' observations on the Front page of his NUFORC website days after the 'event'. Davenport then posted an update one month later. NARCAP and Davenport both felt this was a Major case, likely the reason Davenport decided to 'leak' the story.

At this point lots of people including myself were well aware of the "O'Hare" sighting although it didn't gain serious mainsteam recognition until several weeks later with the 'Hilevicth' article that spawned wide spread international attention.

At any rate there was initially an effort by NARCAP to keep this event 'queit' while the investigation was ongoing, Peter Davenport of course 'leaked' the story and the rest is history. I can't speak for anyone but myself, I was aware of the 'event' in Nov.



torbjon wrote:Query:
When The Towers got hit, did you have to hunt for news about it?
When O.J. ran, did you have to hunt for news about it?
When Exxon Valdez went aground, did you have to hunt for news about?
When Brittany does Anything do you have to hunt for news about it?

YES, there was mention of the story prior to ATS involvement. A little. Here and there. Not a lot though.

I think trying to claim "already major event" is stretching it comrade... "major" implies "hit upside the head" not "I have to hunt for it", ya know? Yes, in Hindsight and After The Fact, looking at all the little bits that the media released prior to ATS involvement it does add up to some "okay" media coverage... but MAJOR coverage?? If THAT was "major" coverage how do you classify 9/11 coverage? Seriously.

Ponder that and get back to me.


Torbjon,

The 'Hilevicth' article was the Major News story that broke and you can see that the ATS 'O'Hare' thread was inactive until the day of the 'Hilevicth' article (01/01/07) which accourding to the Tribune was the most read article in the history of the Tribune's website.
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby ryguy » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:12 pm

It's kind of funny...the Tribune fired the one writer who wrote the most popular article of their newspaper.

Okay...not so funny.

Wait a sec..."according to the Tribune"...you got a source for that?

-Ry
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby lost_shaman » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:40 am

ryguy wrote:Wait a sec..."according to the Tribune"...you got a source for that?

-Ry


http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 6832717747

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_O' ... hting_2006

A video surfaced in the spring of 2007 showing an unedited pre-interview discussion of the Chicago O'Hare Airport UFO sighting between Jon Hilkevitch (the Chicago Tribune transportation reporter who broke the Chicago UFO story) and Jim Wagner a news anchor with CLTV, a 24 Hour news channel in Oak Brook, Illinois. [11] The video shows both men having an off-air discussion about the amount of international media reaction to the UFO story as well as discussing United Airlines alleged "flip-flop" on the event and the FAA's explanation as "weather phenomenon" that according to Hilkevitch's sources "just doesn't wash." Hilkevitch also mentions that photographs were possibly taken by a pilot with a digital camera and that the story is "the most read story in the history of CT.com (chicagotribune.com)" with almost a "million hits."
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby Bibliophile » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:09 am

I remember seeing the Google video. The incident seemed legitimate and this video supports that.

Unfortunately, this sighting now seems "poisoned" by what has happened. If ATS did participate in a hoax, they have acted contrary to what they stand for.

I do not think making money should take precedence over the truth in this matter. I do not have to point out that the UFO phenomenon has global implications. The greedy need to stop interfering with our advancement as a species.

I suppose this sounds corny, but this is how I feel at le cœur. Our development has already been delayed by other influences such as organized religion. It makes me ill when I think about where we could be scientifically, emotionally, and spiritually if our progress had not been hindered by the lust for power and money.

Thanks for the ear.

Bibliophile
"When a true genius appears, you will know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him." ~ Jonathan Swift
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Re: Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax

Postby Access Denied » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:43 am

lost_shaman wrote:
torbjon wrote:Prior to ATS involvement with the O'Hare UFO story, nobody cared about it. It was a non-event, not worth the internet or the media's time.

After ATS involvement with the O'Hare UFO story, it was a major event - discussed widely across the internet and covered by all branches of media across the globe.

The truth is that this was already a major event despite the subsequent ATS thread that developed after the Hilkevitch article.

Actually I think you’re both right… Seth is correct in that the Tribune article “broke” the story nationwide but Torbjon is partially correct in that interest pretty much died again until ATS became “involved” in the event.

We see this pattern repeated over and over again in UFOlogy … the only reason the story gained any attention in the first place was the “conspiracy theory” put forth by “investigators” that the alleged event was somehow suppressed by the FAA and Untied Airlines. When that turned out not to be true (the truth is officials saw no reason for concern) the mainstream lost interest… no doubt also due in part to the anonymity of the alleged witnesses and the lack of any corroborating evidence in the form of independent witnesses (all of the alleged witnesses worked for United and, according to the NARCAP report, at least four of them knew each other prior to the “event”) or photographs.

Enter ATS to the “rescue”…

lost_shaman wrote:However, not everything is always as it seems. It appears that Peter Davenport may have broke an agreement w/ NARCAP to keep the "O'Hare" sighting under wraps by posting 'eye-witness' observations on the Front page of his NUFORC website days after the 'event'. Davenport then posted an update one month later. NARCAP and Davenport both felt this was a Major case, likely the reason Davenport decided to 'leak' the story.

Not true according to Richard Haines of NARCAP…

[from the NARCAP report]

To set the record straight, Peter Davenport, Director of the National UFO Reporting Center, who had received the original witness reports contacted the senior editor [Richard Haines] on the evening of November 7, 2006 because it appeared that this event might have aviation safety implications. He waited until November 14, 2006 before putting the witness reports on the NUFORC website so that NARCAP could obtain further important data. In addition to other historical facts given elsewhere it can be mentioned that, after Davenport had discussed the sightings on the Coast-to-Coast radio program (November 15, 2006) and on the Jeff Rense Radio Program (December 12, 2006), he eventually contacted the Chicago Tribune to find out if they knew about the incident and whether they were interested in investigating it. And so this deliberately planned delay was intended to help NARCAP obtain as much first hand information as possible before press coverage, and the subsequent airline response to this publicity, would take its toll on witness cooperation.

Are you saying Haines lied?

At the very least it would appear ATS wasn’t the only one who may have had a vested interest in promoting this story and there may have been some “behind the scenes” collusion between the “investigators” involved.


[Mod Edit: off topic response moved to existing UFO over O'Hare International Airport?? thread]
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