Improving ATS?

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Improving ATS?

Postby Access Denied » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:29 am

As strange as this may seem coming from somebody like me who has been extremely critical of the management of ATS, I think I would rather see ATS (as a community) succeed than fail.

[either that or all the cool people come over here] 8)

That said, the next question is what would I consider a success?

Good question.

Do I want Mark and Bill to make a zillion?

Honestly, I don’t think they deserve it considering their past performance and treatment of certain people who’s only crime was speaking their mind and were perceived to be a threat to their bottom line as a result.

Then again, on the other hand, if by some miracle they chose to turn over a new leaf as it were and dedicate themselves to building an evolving community that shares a common interest (but not necessarily common beliefs) with a firm commitment to management transparency and accountability then I don’t think it would bother me if it paid off for them done right … everybody wins.

That I would consider a success.

Question is what all would need to change to make that happen?

No doubt the hoaxers and charlatans have their own ideas and would like some things NOT to change but I believe the future of ATS belongs to it’s best and brightest thinkers/contributors (“out there” or not, in my book there’s nothing wrong with being edgy in moderation) so I say f’em if they can’t take a joke.

I have some ideas but I see some members of ATS are currently working on some promising ideas of their own for effecting positive change that are very similar to mine in this thread here…

A Rebuttal In Defiance Of The GFL Troll Thread (and others like them)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread378933/pg1

[GFL = Galactic Federation of Light… or something like that, I think it has something to do with that sick f__ Richard “Hot Tub” Boylan and his (yikes!) “Star Kids” thing who got busted and lost his psych license in California for “treating” female “abduction” victims in various states of undress]

InfaRedMan wrote:It doesn't take a lot of common sense to notice that the GFL thread is severely depreciating the quality of ATS and the enjoyment to majority of ATS Members... Good, Productive Members!

As a clever Vulcan once said:
"The Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Needs Of The One".

I don't like to walk away from here feeling it's more acceptable to act like a kook or troll than it is to call someone out for overtly being one. Sadly it seems that the later is the bigger T&C crime at the moment. Yet it's the first that is doing the greater, overall damage...

Are we living in some alternate universe here because it all feels a bit back-to-front?

Sure, the sensationalism (and overt neo-religious zealotry) gets the website hits and that's all great but what about the long term? All good companies build their futures on reputation and this isn't the kind of reputation ATS needs.

Is this really that good for the members, The Aliens/UFO's Board and the future of ATS? I don't know, what do you think?

Sure, were told by management to just walk away and ignore the thread but when you truly care for the forum you contribute to, when you try to make it a better place, it's hard to turn a blind eye. After all, it's the turning of blind eye's that has made civilization the sad & sorry sight that it is today.

Sure I'm all for freedom of speech and right to express yourself but when there are dubious, divisive agendas driving those words and actions, a stop needs to be put to them.

Is it wise for ATS to be essentially giving unfettered air time to a UFO Cult that can never provide proof or substantiation of anything they say? Do threads that cannot provide evidence ever add anything positive to UFOlogy, a field that has already sustained many near fatal blows in the past?

I welcome comments from all those that support an end to much of this nonsense!

Star & Flag If You Feel This Is Important To You & Us!

IRM

I recommend everyone take a look while the thread is still open.

[hopefully highlighting it here won’t kill it]

To my surprise it hasn’t been moved from the A&U forum where it’s most relevant and will get the most exposure and feedback.

Part of me suspects it will be closed or ignored as usual because I think some of these ideas will adversely impact the ATS business model as currently (ill) conceived and I see it working but hey, one can still dream can’t they?

What do you all think of some of the suggestions made?

Can ATS be “saved” from eternal mediocrity… or worse?

What would you suggest?
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby Chorlton » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:09 am

The point is. ATS is controlled, dominated and directed by the ideas of Sprinkler and Septic Overweight.
The idea of a contributor based forum is total bollocks as has been shown time and time again.
Its THEIR ideas that control the content. If they dont like it they ban the poster, effectively ending any further discussion. Borderline cases get harassed by the Mods.
Its THEIR deranged mods that create lots of damage.
Its THEIR stupid and ridiculous ideas of 'Politeness' and 'Decorum' that destroys any normal, human repartee.

I consider they are promoting and even encouraging stupidity, hoaxes and total rubbish to attract the freaks and nutcases for one reason. MONEY.
They have NO interest in truth, because the real truth doesnt bring in as many freaks as pure and utter b.s. does. So that said, I consider they are damaging and making look foolish anyone seriously researching UFO's or anything allegedly Supernatural by emphasising the ridiculous.
Therefore in my opinion the best thing to happen would be for ATS to fold, It contrbutes nothing any more other than money to its founders. Failing that the second best thing would be for SO and S to be separated from ATS along with a sacking of all the mods.
The prats known as Rabbit and Johnny Obnoxious should also get the boot. Rabbits continual mindnumbing harping on about Vietnam, soldiersw and war is so tedious. I dont realy know what Johny Obnoxious does but it isnt a lot and what he does post is, in general, pretty facile.

ATS serves no purpose now. Other to attract idiots. A flypaper for fools
Just my opinion folks =D>
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby mojo » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:26 pm

Funny as it may seem to some i'm all for ATS being a successful entity and neither do I begrudge the amigo’s making a quid from it either.
There are some wonderfully intelligent, witty and lateral thinking folk, many of whom i became good friends with during my time there and its for those people in particular that I hope ATS does indeed become a more successful and rewarding forum.
But i fear what i would term a successful ATS and what Bill and Mark consider successful are poles apart.
Big business, and lets not kid ourselves, ATS are heading into Big Business territory based on the numbers of consumers that use or view their site, has evolved considerable since the excesses of the 80's and 90's and have now acknowledged the expectation of their consumers and shareholders to also be "Good Corporate Citizens" as well as being able to turn a profit.
No matter what the percentage's and statistics Bill likes to throw around regarding banned members, unique visits, ad revenue and so on, one thing that they cannot hide from is the fact that they are not seen by all the CT consumers that surf the web as "Good Corporate Citizens" as far as CT forums go.
In fact I’d suggest that of their target consumers less than 50% would perceive ATS as being model citizens. That’s merely a guess, but since leaving ATS I have spent considerable time surfing at a lot of other CT forums, and at most if not all, ATS is a dirty word.

A catch phrase that has become prominent in the business world even more so than previously is "Continuous Improvement".
Many businesses mistake continuous improvement and lean manufacturing (usually mentioned in the same breath) as an opportunity to make people work harder, cut costs at all costs, becoming lean and mean.
In reality it is a philosophy of working smarter, being proactive, sourcing greater input from your staff and customers (even criticism), becoming more efficient at delivering what your consumers desire and by doing so will create profit and an entity that is seen by all as having desirable ethics..
The days are long gone that a dictatorial management style can hope to survive for very long or achieve those goals.
Regardless of all the bluster that the top tier management at ATS spouts whenever they or their forum are criticized, anyone with any sense at all can see that they truly do not listen to or accept any responsible/reasonable criticism from outside of their management team and for all I know do not accept it from within their team either.
What you usually witness on critical threads of ATS management is that the OP is more often than not denigrated by staff and brown nosers, subjected to one line witticisms and taken to task for daring to question “the Amigo’s” before the thread is closed and moved to the “ATS Issues Thread”, where the concerns of the OP are generally lost amongst all the other petty little issues and in some cases go completely unanswered.
The idea of a thread specifically for members to raise issues and idea’s is basically a good one, but the way it is currently being managed is laughable to be honest and does nothing to engender a feeling of “ownership” amongst their consumers.

I believe ATS can be an important and successful source of news and information, an alternative to the MSM, a conduit for free and critical thinking and a profitable sustainable business for the owners and investors, however I don’t think their current approach will achieve any of those targets in the long run.
Maybe they don’t want to be around for the long haul and are merely trying to achieve spectacular graphs in the short term to enable them to sell at a greater price, who knows.

My idea of a successful ATS is pretty basic.
A place where the consumers (members and visitors) are able to freely exchange knowledge, where hard work and research is valued, where, to borrow from AD, contentious issues are dealt with honestly and with transparency and those that deserve it can and do make a profit.
Bill and Mark would probably say that they already meet that criteria, and that would immediately prove that they do not understand nor embrace a “continuous improvement philosophy” or truly understand their own motto of "Deny Ignorance".


Unfortunately i am in no doubt that they do not understand either that most of us really do wish the best for their forum judging by Bill’s “Detractors Lawsuit” whinging sympathy thread and many of his and Marks replies on this and other forums.
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby the|exx » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:49 am

Hey AD,

That's one of my old rant threads! LOL! Thanks for posting it here. I really had my hackles up over the whole GFL/Blossom Goodchild thing. That thread did quite well considering... and it did stay up in the UFO forum right up till the night before the prediction date (13th October)... where they condensed everything down into one thread and closed all the others. I was surprised it lasted as long as it did.

IRM ;)
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby Access Denied » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:14 pm

Hah, a blast from the past! I had completely forgotten about this thread.

You're very welcome, obviously you're one of the cool people I was referring to... 8)
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby Slippery Jim » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:19 am

ATS has become a travesty of it's original self.

The Credulous are allowed to make unsubstantiated allegations of 'dis-info agents' etc. against honest people who are just trying to get to the truth. Yet if a 'skeptic' steps over the T&Cs by just one inch they are banned for life. Simply because it may affect their bank balance.

Fortunately the Admins over there are too incompetant to be able to stop the banned people returning.

Mammon's time is numbered. :wink:
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby the|exx » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:08 am

Slippery Jim wrote:The Credulous are allowed to make unsubstantiated allegations of 'dis-info agents' etc. against honest people who are just trying to get to the truth.


Hey Jim!

This used to be the case. I tested it recently and presented my case to a moderator who promptly removed all said posts and warned the member. 'Dis-info Agent' is now treated no differently to 'Wacko', 'Nut Job' etc. Surely an improvement, but in saying that, this should have always been the case.

IRM ;)
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby IgnoreTheFacts » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:29 pm

ATS, with their massive traffic, has the power to do many good things.

But again guys, ATS is a for-profit business. And there is nothing wrong with that. They sell a product. It's a non-traditional method compared to ages past, but the basics are still the same.

Now, that being said, I do wish that things were different, and that ATS used it's mighty power to actually "deny ignorance". There are REAL conspiracies in this world. They can hide in plain sight easily enough due to the large amount of ignorance in this subject. And those that are interested in conspiracies seem to be the most ignorant people on the planet. ATS, with their massive web presence, could address this with only slight changes to their format and not really loose any profit. Actually, I could easily show them a few changes that will allow them to get much more advertising from additional large mainstream companies. They would loose a little traffic, but it would not matter as they would be far more profitable and it would be long term sustainable. The fact that they don't understand the very simple things I would recommend only illustrates the fact that the "three amigos" are business amateurs. If they read this, they would laugh their asses off, and curse me to no end. They would think to themselves "what does this guy know, we're making enough money to be comfortable and this is just another idiot who thinks they can do it better, so why doesn't he and just shut the f---- up" I have no interest in owning or managing a profitable web-based business. But that doesn't mean that the principles and practices that have served me well over the years, combined with my experience dealing with very large companies and high profile clientele, could be easily dismissed after serious consideration.

I could easily dismiss their "entry level entrepreneurial concerns" by showing them a picture of my house (which is PAID FOR). Sad, but true.
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby Slippery Jim » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:07 am

the|exx wrote:
Slippery Jim wrote:The Credulous are allowed to make unsubstantiated allegations of 'dis-info agents' etc. against honest people who are just trying to get to the truth.


Hey Jim!

This used to be the case. I tested it recently and presented my case to a moderator who promptly removed all said posts and warned the member. 'Dis-info Agent' is now treated no differently to 'Wacko', 'Nut Job' etc. Surely an improvement, but in saying that, this should have always been the case.

IRM ;)

Jaxx, I'm working hard to change opinions over there. I'm pointing out legalities that they have been overlooking. I haven't yet been able to stop them from allowing "free thinkers" to post any twaddle they imagine but I'm working on it.

SJ
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Re: Improving ATS?

Postby Slippery Jim » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:54 pm

Ooops! First slip-up of my new incarnation. :(

Trying to remedy it by getting permission.

Should be okay soon.

:D
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