ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Any discussion related to ATS goes here

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby mojo » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:14 am

torbjon wrote:It would seem that perhaps the primary function of Anonymous Posting at ATS is not to gather civil, polite, non disruptive and Deny Ignorance type of information anonymously from people...

Your suggestion that it is perhaps a tool for the staff and management of ATS to further manipulate thread flow sounds plausible.



It occurred to me while reading your post that there may even be another reason for the 'anonymous posts".
As SO kindly informed us your IP is attached to each post you make on ATS, safe to assume then that such information would also be a valuable tool, not only for the site owners but for their Advertising partners as well to track and aquire data on their anonymous visitors.
A third party doubleclick cookie could then potentially provide information on particular "anonymous" users surfing habits back to ATS or the AD companies retained by ATS.
If, as it appears from the small sample of anecdotal evidence ive read, that ATS only allows "mostly" feel good posts from anonymous then you could project that they are only interested in tracking the movement/interests of "friendly" anonymous visitors to their site, probably for marketing and targeted advertising.

Just a thought for what it's worth. :)

mojo
User avatar
mojo
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm


Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby mojo » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:24 am

Here we go.


HIFIGUY wrote:reply to post by SkepticOverlord

More of the policy paragraph:

We use non-identifying and aggregate information to better design our website and to share with advertisers.


but we would never disclose anything that could be used to identify any individuals.


Individual users, or individual networks. That is not clarified.

Give someone the right stream to fish in, and their probability of finding the fish they are looking for gets considerably easier.

I am not in agreement with you when " smartech " specifically was circled and identified.

In todays day and age, a corporation is considered an individual entity.
If smartech is indeed a corporation, their disclosure may be considered a breech of privacy.

Further investigation has been undertaken.

Peace




Skeptics reply.

skepticoverlord wrote:
Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Further investigation has been undertaken.



Feel free to complain to TRUSTe. If they agree with you, they will likely revoke our privacy certification.


yep, feel free to complain to TRUSTe, and judging from their history of not revoking certification be assured that nothing will happen. :)

The policy direction now seems obvious, any privacy concerns raised by members will not be investigated or discussed on the forum or privately they will merely be given a link to the TRUSTe complaint form.
They have basically washed their hands of any responsibility regarding their members valid concerns and handballed it on to a third party agency with a deplorable record of not really doing anything that might damage the continuity of their revenue stream.

[-X
User avatar
mojo
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby torbjon » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:02 pm

TRUSTe is slow:

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Can-You-Trust-TRUSTe/
===
Trust Guard is 'better':

http://trustseals.wordpress.com/2007/11 ... ust-guard/
====
"The use of third-party affiliates has long been an issue of contention between software vendors and anti-spyware researchers, who say that the use of third parties allows vendors to prosper from shady practices while claiming to be entirely legitimate."

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/21948 ... ruste-user
===
Very comprehensive report.

"Ben Edelman, a researcher working on his Ph.D. in economics at Harvard, has posted a study showing that sites certified through Truste are twice as likely as similar, but uncertified sites to deliver spyware, adware and spam."

Working Draft written October, 2006
http://www.benedelman.org/publications/ ... -draft.pdf

"According to TRUSTe’s posted data, users continue to submit hundreds of complaints each month. But of the 3,416 complaints received since January 2003, TRUSTe concluded that not a single one required any change to any member’s operations, privacy statement, or privacy practices, nor did any complaint require any revocation or on-site audit. Other aspects of TRUSTe’s watchdog system also indicate a lack of diligence."
[snip]
"It is reassuring to see a prediction that worthless trust authorities will self-destruct. But in practice, we observe that trust authorities do exist, have existed for some time, and show no sign of disappearing. A natural null hypothesis is exogenous market forces. For example, the large companies that founded TRUSTe are likely to continue to support it so long as it serves their regulatory goals. So even if TRUSTe would otherwise face extinction, core members may keep it afloat."

Data and equations provided to verify conclusions. Charts and graphs provided for those who can't read.

===

The short of it is, the staff and management of ATS are not stupid. They did some research Before shelling out money to get a TRUSTe certificate. They chose TRUSTe over Trust Guard and The Better Business Bureau for a REASON. Trust Guard offers more services for less money, so COST was not a factor. The Better Business Bureau is a more powerful organization so POWER was not a factor. There was some other reason for choosing TRUSTe.

TRUSTe functions pretty much like a fire department. A needed service to be sure, but not a PREVENTATIVE service. Once the damage is done, once the fire is raging and your family, your possessions, and your pet canary are being burnt to a crisp, then the fire department steps into action and tries to help clean up the mess...

But not Before.

Sure sure, every now and then the fire inspector (health inspector, SAFETY inspector) stops by to check things out and re-issue a certificate... but they don't LIVE there 24/7, constantly monitoring and insuring public safety.

I've spent 15 years working in industries that required high degrees of public trust and safety (literally, LIVES were at stake) Primarily in protein production and distribution (Icicle Seafoods, numerous restaurants, the Culinary Institute of America) and a fiber optic manufacturing facility supplying components to hospitals, the military, and NASA. In all those years and in all those industries we Never received a "surprise" visit from an inspector. In all cases we would receive notice weeks, if not Months prior to the arrival of an inspector, allowing us ample time to "get our act together" and comply to the rules and regulations we said we complied to 24/7.

Inspection is needed, to be sure, otherwise those companies would never have complied at all (it's expensive) But a casual, 'friendly' inspector is not a live in Watch Dog.

TRUSTe functions on the basis of Complaints. This means that the damage is already done. If the damage is already done then it's too late. TRUSTe does not provide "fire prevention" (safety), they provide damage control after the fact... is that even worth bragging about?

"Oh, Gee... you're computer has been hacked by one of our third party vendors, all of your personal data is now posted on Susie Cream Cheese's blog, your comp is full of malware, spyware, viruses, bugs, worms, and is a smoking pile of worthless circuits? That's too bad. You should send an email to TRUSTe and complain about that. That will fix it."

mmph.
Expendable Guy. The show is no good without them.
User avatar
torbjon
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:08 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby mojo » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:14 am

torbjon wrote:The short of it is, the staff and management of ATS are not stupid. They did some research Before shelling out money to get a TRUSTe certificate. They chose TRUSTe over Trust Guard and The Better Business Bureau for a REASON. Trust Guard offers more services for less money, so COST was not a factor. The Better Business Bureau is a more powerful organization so POWER was not a factor. There was some other reason for choosing TRUSTe.



I had pretty much reached the same conclusion as you had torbjon, then i had to go and look a bit further. #-o
I bolded that small statement you made above, it stuck in my head as i read your post for some reason.

AD had posted some interesting links in an earlier post which i was doing some checking on.

I found this article while doing some basic keyword searches, what was weird is that many of the names of people and businesses that i had on my wordpad at that time popped up in this article. Now the article itself is pure CT theory, so i initially took it with a grain of salt but added the information to my file to follow up on.

http://www.wombles.org.uk/article2007061004.php

So i starting checking the background to some of the information contained in the article. Surprisingly much of it was easily verified.

Associations between the CIA and Accel Partners, the firm who is buying TRUSTe?

This is from the CIA website.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... index.html

The media was drawn to a small corporation in Washington, DC that had just unveiled its existence and the hiring of its first CEO, Gilman Louie. Mr. Louie described the Corporation, called In-Q-It, as having been formed "...to ensure that the CIA remains at the cutting edge of information technology advances and capabilities."


Gilman Louie. Take note of that.

Now James Breyer from Accel Partners the VC firm investing in TRUSTe, the company certifying your privacy on A T S, a conspiracy/alternative topics website.

http://pipl.com/directory/people/James/Breyer

5 quick facts about James Breyer:

Breyer is a Managing Partner of Accel Partners, a venture capital firm... Source: Mr James Breyer Profile - Forbes.com [www.forbes.com]

Breyer was a man who served on NVCA's board with Gilman Louie, the CEO of In-Q-Tel... Source: currybear.com... [currybear.com]

James Breyer has been a Director of RealNetworks since October 1995... Source: sec.edgar-online.com... [sec.edgar-online.com]

Breyer has served as a General Partner of Accel Partners in Palo Alto, California since 1990... Source: RealNetworks, Inc. > Board of Directors [www.realnetworks.com]

Breyer is an officer, 4321916 shares owned by... Source: REALNETWORKS INC [www.shareholder.com]


Nevermind the privacy concerns of RealNetworks but James Breyer served on the board of NVCA with Gilman Louie CEO of In-Q-Tel owned by the CIA, with connections to DARPA, DOD and lots of other alphabet agency’s.

Here’s a NY Times article in which James Breyer and Gilman Louie are both quoted.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all

Mr. Louie said today that the purpose of the new company would be to move information technology to the agency more quickly than traditional Government procurement processes allow. The agency, he said, was struggling with many of the same aspects of the Internet that are vexing to other Web surfers, including privacy and security.
''The current model isn't working,'' Mr. Louie said. ''The technology world has totally changed, and one day the C.I.A. woke up and realized they needed to go through the same change.''
The new company will supply venture capital in some cases, and in others it will hire contractors or partner with entrepreneurs in four areas: integrating Internet technology and applications into the C.I.A.'s work; developing new security and privacy technologies; nurturing data mining technologies to take better advantage of the agency's vast storehouses of records, and modernizing the agency's computer systems.
Mr. Louie said that none of In-Q-It's work would be classified and that the organization would not be limited to the four areas he outlined.


''There are a number of models on which the jury is still out,'' said James Breyer, managing partner of Accel Partners, a venture firm in Palo Alto, Calif.
Companies like Lucent Technologies and the AT&T Corporation have become venture investors in the valley in recent years, he noted, and SRI Research International had less success in trying to spin out its research projects with an internal venture arm.
''The most important aspect is to have an outstanding outside management effort overseeing the process,'' he said. ''It appears in this effort the C.I.A. has chosen well.''


It seems that rather than just passing aquaintances Mr Louie and Mr Breyer have a number of connections to each other.

Jame's Breyer is an Investor/board member of BBN Technologies.

http://www.accel.com/people/bio.php?per ... _id=121000

Jim is currently on the Board of Directors of Wal-Mart Stores, Inc (WMT), where he is the Lead/Presiding Independent Director, and Chairman of the Strategic Planning and Finance Committee. He also serves on the board of Marvel Entertainment (MVL) where he is the founding Chairman of the Strategic Planning and Finance Committee. Jim is currently an Investor/Board Member of privately held companies BBN Technologies, Brightcove, Etsy, Facebook, Global Grind Digital, ModelN, and Prosper.com.

Jim is on the Strategic Investment Committee/Board of Accel-KKR, IDG-Accel China Fund, the Mail Room Fund (a joint venture with entertainment leader William Morris Agency), and Facebook Seed Fund.


BBN Technologies has received investment from In-Q-Tel, the VC IT arm of the CIA which is run by his former collegue at NVCA Gilman Louie.

http://www.iqt.org/technology-portfolio ... ogies.html

BBN provides advanced solutions to a wide variety of government agencies and commercial customers including DARPA, Army Research Labs, Boeing, and Verizon Communications to name a few. BBN is headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The company is lead by CEO Robert G. (Tad) Elmer, and was awarded the IEEE Technical Innovation award for its contributions to computer networking in 1999. In-Q-Tel initially invested in BBN Technologies in March, 2004.


This has started me off on a different train of thought entirely, not difficult, just ask my wife how long shes been waiting for me to clean the gutters. :)

So where is this heading?
How about a hypothetical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatio ... ess_Office

The Information Awareness Office (IAO) was established by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), the research and development agency of the United States Department of Defense, in January 2002 to bring together several DARPA projects focused on applying information technology to counter transnational threats to national security. The IAO mission was to "imagine, develop, apply, integrate, demonstrate and transition information technologies, components and prototype, closed-loop, information systems that will counter asymmetric threats by achieving total information awareness". Following public criticism that the development and deployment of these technologies could potentially lead to a mass surveillance system, the IAO was defunded by Congress in 2003, although several of the projects run under IAO have continued under different funding.


Now have a look at some of the companies owned by Accel Partners, its a pretty long list.

http://www.accel.com/company/sector.php ... iew=124000

What would most of those companies be able to provide. A massive database of user information from a diverse pool across the internet and technology, cell phones, satellites etc.

Now some of the companies that In-Q-Tel have invested in. Takes some reading and surfing but there are a lot of similarities.

http://www.iqt.org/technology-portfolio ... tical.html

Common denominator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_mining

Data mining is the process of sorting through large amounts of data and picking out relevant information. It is usually used by business intelligence organizations, and financial analysts, but is increasingly being used in the sciences to extract information from the enormous data sets generated by modern experimental and observational methods. It has been described as "the nontrivial extraction of implicit, previously unknown, and potentially useful information from data"[1] and "the science of extracting useful information from large data sets or databases."[


It has been suggested that both the Central Intelligence Agency and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service have employed this method.[8]
Previous data mining to stop terrorist programs under the US government include the Total Information Awareness (TIA) program, Computer-Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS II), Analysis, Dissemination, Visualization, Insight, and Semantic Enhancement (ADVISE), Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange (MATRIX), and the Secure Flight program Security-MSNBC. These programs have been discontinued due to controversy over whether they violate the US Constitution's 4th amendment, although many programs that were formed under them continue to be funded by different organizations, or under different names, to this day.


Please whack me upside the head if this is a bit too fanciful. :D

I'm hoping that i might be able to find some other connections between members of Accel and In-Q-Tel and perhaps even TRUSTe to further verify this train of thought, fingers crossed.

Now i'm not suggesting that ATS is implicit in any of this, in fact the connections could all very well be coincidental and innocent, when you look at how many companies these guy's are involved in then perhaps it's likely that there will be some innocent connections, still makes for some fascinating research.

Any thoughts that may help on a particular line of inquiry would be welcome.

mojo
User avatar
mojo
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby Access Denied » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:40 am

:shock:

Yikes, excellent research Mojo, thanks for keeping us posted!

mojo wrote:This has started me off on a different train of thought entirely, not difficult, just ask my wife how long shes been waiting for me to clean the gutters. :)

rofl… yours too?

mojo wrote:Please whack me upside the head if this is a bit too fanciful. :D

[whack]

Just kidding, I too have been extremely skeptical of the ATS = COINTELPRO claims, especially considering the sources of those claims in the past but then on the other hand there’s been some “things” (read overactive imagination and paranoia lol) I’ve noticed that make me go hmm…

mojo wrote:Now i'm not suggesting that ATS is implicit in any of this, in fact the connections could all very well be coincidental and innocent, when you look at how many companies these guy's are involved in then perhaps it's likely that there will be some innocent connections, still makes for some fascinating research.

Now that statement right there is proof you’re still sane…

[casually tilts head down slightly to the left and whispers “roger that, call off the men in white coats, over” into his lapel pin]

I mean hell, we (RU) could be unknowingly complicit since we run Google ads but on other hand, Google is subjected to a lot more scrutiny and (I’m guessing) they probably don’t pay as well as some of the more obscure ad partners ATS is using… some of which can be compromised as evidenced by the malicious ads that slip through.

mojo wrote:Any thoughts that may help on a particular line of inquiry would be welcome.

Well, I was hesitating to post this but here’s some food for thought…

Disinfo & Deflection [continued]

Can the government track me through ATS?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid4519324

Springer wrote:Considering you only revealed the name [redacted] and (hopefully) a web based email address, there is nothing that's worth anything they can get about you here.

BS, the ads that are served through ATS expose people’s IP address and posting habits to third parties that ultimately ATS has no control over.

Springer wrote:Even with a court order the only thing they can get is your IP address and if you are using a proxy that's not worth much either.

BS, they don’t need a court order to get your IP address, “they” (or anybody else for that matter) can simply buy that information from less scrupulous ATS ad partners.

Proxy servers? Educate thyself…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_serv ... xy_servers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymizer ... d_security

Springer wrote:There's a reason we don't ask for any personal information, we can not divulge what we don't know.

But your sock puppets and spies can. Also, ATS openly admits they read their member’s private messages when they see fit. There are ZERO controls in place for the protection of that personal information.

Springer wrote:All that being said, IF the "boys" want to talk to you, they'll find you and there are DOZENS of easier ways to find you than non existent info on ATS, like someone else mentioned, your ISP is where they would likely start.

No, that’s where they would work back to from ATS assuming you’re stupid enough to post something “they” (and I just don’t mean the government of the US) would be interested in. Never mind the fact ATS deals with subjects that naturally attracts enemies of the state and the criminal element…

Springer wrote:The reality is what could you possibly post that they would remotely care about?

Either Mark’s an idiot or he’s being disingenuous… you decide.

Springer wrote:Seriously, your theories, postulations or even accusations are not going to get you in trouble on the internet, the government fellows have much more important fish to fry than us. ;)

You here that folks? Mark says trust him, go ahead and post whatever you want… it’s not important. Terrorists, subversive elements, foreign intelligence services, snake oil salesman, you name it… no problem! It’s just business…

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Men go and come but Earth abides.
User avatar
Access Denied
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 am
Location: [redacted]

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby torbjon » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:10 am

Mojo:

wow, remind me to Never tick you off... My feeling was that they just chose the least effective and most meaningless security certificate they could find. One which would allow them to pass the buck to a non effective toothless third party complaint department anytime an ATS member voiced a concern over safety and security...

This is some Funky Dung, comrade, and a little scary... even if, as you say, the connections are coincidental and innocent, it is still, as they say "Is what it Is", ya know?

keep 'em flying...

AD:

This is Mind Boggling:

Springer wrote:
Seriously, your theories, postulations or even accusations are not going to get you in trouble on the internet, the government fellows have much more important fish to fry than us.


I thought ATS was supposed to be the top of the food chain and the place where people were supposed to go to Spill The Beans? It was that way when we were there... ATS was supposed to be THE place to go for insiders to release sensitive information into the public domain, ergo The Most Important fish in the pond, the one to watch like a hawk, and where member security and privacy was more important than Anything Else...

And now Springer is saying... what? That ATS, its members, and its content aren't worth the time and energy of government scrutiny (or anyone elses, apparently)

Mind Blowing... just... Mind Blowing...
Expendable Guy. The show is no good without them.
User avatar
torbjon
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:08 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby mojo » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:36 am

I still believe that your conclusion, being the simplest and most obvious is more than likely correct torbjon, but i like playing the game right until the final siren, so until i prove to myself conclusively i might just follow this train of thought through a bit longer.

Here's an example of the paranoid little devil's advocate voice in my head.

.......................................................................................................................................

Since the IAO and the TIA program was forcibly disbanded due to public pressure and the removal of funding, some agencies have decided that this is an easier way to circumvent such intervention.
Think about it, In-Q-Tel is supposedly not for profit, yet there is nothing stopping them from making a profit, in fact….

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... index.html

The CIA had to offer Silicon Valley something of value, a business model that the Valley understood; a model that provides those who joined hands with In-Q-Tel the opportunity to commercialize their innovations. In addition, In-Q-Tel’s partner companies would also gain another valuable asset, access to a set of very difficult CIA problems that could become market drivers.


To accomplish this, the Corporation will network extensively with those in industry, the venture capital community, academia, and any others who are at the forefront of IT innovation. Through the business relationships that it establishes, In-Q-Tel will create environments for collaboration, product demonstration, prototyping, and evaluation. From these activities will flow the IT solutions that the Agency seeks and, most importantly, the commercial opportunities for product development by its partners.


As an example, it can effect the full range of business transactions common to the industry -- it is venture enabled, can establish joint ventures, fund grants, sponsor open competitions, award sole source contracts, etc. And, because of the many degrees of freedom granted to it by the Agency, In-Q-Tel does not require Agency approval for the business deals it negotiates




Gilman Louie says so.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all

While In-Q-It will operate on a nonprofit basis, Mr. Louie said his intention was to invest in such a way as to make the organization self-sustaining.


In this case they are not reliant on government funding yet are still tied to the intelligence community via the CIA.
So In-Q-Tel, along with some help from associates and network partners (Accel Partners and James Breyer) invest heavily in companies and technologies that are beneficial to the intelligence community, the gathering of data and information from various sources, which due to the apathy of many users does not in effect create public concern over privacy.
So they have created a portfolio of businesses and technologies to help them compile a massive database.

What would be their next step if you were in their shoes.

The answer is pretty simple, they need to infiltrate or control the local privacy watchdog, which in this case is TRUSTe to limit any possible fallout that may arise from privacy advocates. How do they do this yet keep themselves at arms length, they use another company, in this case Accel Partners, to be the front, there are no obvious links back to In-Q-Tel, only the suggestion of a couple of pals who worked together on the board of NVCA.
It's all very neat and tidy, no obvious holes. In-Q-Tel are able to operate pretty much as the IAO would have without reliance on government funding or concern from the public over their civil rights being eroded.
Accel Partners are clean and have now in their own portfolio control of one of the largest privacy watchdogs on the internet which can only be of benefit to some of the other companies that are in their portfolio, among those being Facebook, RealNetworks, and others that i'm researching at the moment.

I wonder how many companies owned by Accel Partners are also TRUSTe members?

Do you really think TRUSTe would take action against a company owned by the company that has just purchased them. lol. I don't think so.

Ok, to summarise. I’ll use the CIA as my example only because they seem to be the agency in question in this instance, but it could well be DARPA, the NSA or any number of other alphabet agencies.

........................................................................................................................................

The CIA realize that they need the information that the IAO would have given them.

They understand the difficulty of achieving this if they are reliant on government funding and the goodwill of civil rights activists and privacy advocates.

They start up their own venture capital firm whose sole aim is to invest in communications and technology and advertising (internet, cell phones, satellite’s etc) to collect and interpret raw user data from online social networking sites, electronic banking and purchases, surfing habits, advertising and marketing and so on.

Initially funding is required from the CIA, but it is a pittance, eventually any reliance on funding from the Parent arm will not be required as their portfolio grows.

The personnel chosen to head up In-Q-Tel are well known to the industry and have numerous network contacts.

Everything is going along smoothly, there are a few concerns raised in blogs and posts on social networking forums but not much to worry about, but it does need to be addressed at some point.

Another private venture capital firm run by associates and acquaintances is infiltrated or a partnership off the books is conceived.

This company also owns many companies in the fields of interest to In-Q-Tel and they are persuaded that the purchase of the privacy watchdog would be in the interests of all parties.

Any privacy concerns raised by the public are now not a serious threat to the ongoing accumulation of data.

The IAO exists, it just goes by a different name.

A bonus is that the largest conspiracy/alternative topics social networking site on the internet is now a TRUSTe member as are some of the advertising companies that are used by ATS.

ATS don’t know or don’t care, as long as the bottom line looks good.

I wonder if ATS received their investment from a VC firm located in Silicon Valley?
That would be too much to ask for wouldn’t it?

Make for a good movie I reckon.

Thanks for all the feedback guy's, to be honest i wasn't sure you would see the same connections i'm seeing, it's nice to know i'm not completely nuts. :)

mojo
User avatar
mojo
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby moomin » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:37 pm

It would be really interesting to know where they did get their funding from (and they are not saying anything about who it was). Why would a funder of ats want to remain secret? Why were ats members never given the opportunity to invest in ats themselves? Could it be that an ordinary member might also be able to find out who the secret backers are if they put money in also? Every ats member should wonder why they want the members' 'intellectual' contributions but not financially! After all, there's probably many members who would like to invest in ats but are unable to do so because it's not offered to them. What was the deal the backers offered them that was so tempting they accepted it at the price of staying silent about it?

Is there any way to find out from any public records who these backers were?

Great job you are doing there =D> =D>
moomin
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:48 am

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby mojo » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:21 pm

moomin wrote:It would be really interesting to know where they did get their funding from.


Agreed.
I have some idea's on this but am not in a position to post anything publically yet.

moomin wrote:Is there any way to find out from any public records who these backers were?


I'm not sure of the legalities of the system in the US, but if it were here in Australia, then yes you could find the information though it would probably "cost" a few dollars.
User avatar
mojo
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby moomin » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:58 pm

mojo wrote:I'm not sure of the legalities of the system in the US, but if it were here in Australia, then yes you could find the information though it would probably "cost" a few dollars.


I know there are searches that can show you who 'owns' ats but would it show the funding/funders? Someone has to account for that large amount of money nowadays so there has to be a trail somewhere. Is there no-one here from the U.S. that could find out?
moomin
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:48 am

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby torbjon » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:56 pm

I believe that the only agency that American citizens / companies "have" to report financial transactions to is the IRS, and then only if they "ask" (audit). Our currency still says "for all debts, public and Private". Financial accountability wasn't really That big of deal here until Al Capone days (that's when the IRS started to get some real Teeth). Up until the insane cocaine drug money of the 1970's massive cash transactions didn't really raise a flag anywhere. Now it's virtually impossible to make a large Cash transaction here without it being investigated (ie if you buy a house, buy a car, buy a yacht, etc with Cash, expect a knock on the door). This raises the question of just How Private is our currency.

In the 1990's the guy sold the property that had the barn I was living in on for many millions of dollars. He took the check and converted it to Cash, went to Montana, and purchased another large piece of property... with Cash. He got the knock on the door. His neck happened to be redder than red, his skin whiter than white, and his blood bluer than blue so the IRS investigation turned up nothing...

But it was a year long inconvenience that actually Cost him, not only in Cash but in the time and energy spent away from the ranch dealing with the IRS. Cash, Time, and Energy to which he was never reimbursed.

The company I currently work for is a Non Profit Theater company which receives funding from a wide range of sources, including five dollar donations from folks like you and me, much larger donations from very rich people / companies (either from the heart or for tax deduction purposes) and government funding in the form of grants. We keep extensive records of where all the money comes from and where it goes, but none of that information is public knowledge.

Americans are very big on "it's my wallet, and it's none of your damn business". Following the money is the best way to find out who is doing what, controlling what, and we make that very difficult to do here, even with agencies which are supposed to be "transparent" (ie gov'ment).

Finding out who really funds a company is a major piece of investigation (as Mojo is demonstrating)
Expendable Guy. The show is no good without them.
User avatar
torbjon
Focused on Reality
Focused on Reality
 
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:08 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby moomin » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:09 pm

Here is a useful tool that will make your life much easier (but it will take away many hours of your time as it's such a fascinating tool)...

http://www.muckety.com/TRUSTe/5036651.muckety

Have fun :lol:
moomin
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:48 am

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby mojo » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:03 pm

moomin wrote:Here is a useful tool that will make your life much easier (but it will take away many hours of your time as it's such a fascinating tool)...

http://www.muckety.com/TRUSTe/5036651.muckety

Have fun :lol:


Thanks moomin, that actually is a very cool little tool.


...................................................................................................................................


Ok, this is getting just a little bit odd.

http://www.bbn.com/sitemap

On the board of directors at BBN Technologies we have Jim Breyer and Kevin Efrusy from Accel Partners and Dr Anita Jones.

http://www.iqt.org/about-iqt/our-team/b ... stees.html

Dr Anita Jones is also on the board of trustee's at In-Q-Tel.

So we have now shown a connection between the former CEO of In-Q-Tel, Gilman Louie and Jim Breyer of Accel Partners, now a connection between Jim Breyer and Kevin Efrusy of Accel Partners and Dr. Anita Jones who is on the board of Trustee's at In-Q-Tel and BBn Technologies with Breyer and Efrusy.

And i should not have any concerns regarding Accel Partners investing in TRUSTe, a privacy watchdog, who ATS proclaims will protect the interests of their members. :?

I'm not sure if i want to dig into this much further.

Oh, what the hell.

The CIA seem to have a vested interest in BBN Technologies.

http://www.iqt.org/technology-portfolio ... ogies.html

BBN Technologies (BBN) is an advanced technology and research and development firm, providing services to government and industry. BBN is focused on solving some of the world’s most pressing problems. From information and infrastructure security, speech and language technologies, sensor and signal processing, to networking, BBN has been at the forefront of technological advances for over 50 years.
Founded in 1948, the name BBN’s name has become synonymous with technical innovation. Since providing the acoustical design of the UN General Assembly Hall, to implementing and operating the ARPANET, the forerunner of today’s Internet, BBN continues to pioneer first-of-a-kind technical achievements. From the first packet switch, the first router, and the first network email, which established the @ sign as an icon for the digital age, to today’s innovations such as building the world’s first wide-area quantum cryptography network, and advanced processing of foreign language, BBN scientists and engineers are pioneering innovations to help our customers work better and smarter.
BBN provides advanced solutions to a wide variety of government agencies and commercial customers including DARPA, Army Research Labs, Boeing, and Verizon Communications to name a few. BBN is headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The company is lead by CEO Robert G. (Tad) Elmer, and was awarded the IEEE Technical Innovation award for its contributions to computer networking in 1999. In-Q-Tel initially invested in BBN Technologies in March, 2004. For more information about BBN, please visit www.bbn.com.


http://www.masshightech.com/stories/200 ... o-BBN.html

For almost 20 years, Heather Triplett Biehl has been an expert on bad guys. As an authority on counterterrorism, a former Middle East analyst for the CIA and a defense industry executive, she has briefed presidents, jumped out of helicopters and pitched technology to the country’s top intelligence agencies.

Biehl’s occasionally covert career continues with her latest post as the vice president of the flagship intelligence programs office at Cambridge-based BBN Technologies Inc.



There is not much doubt in my mind that there is some very obvious connections here between Accel Partners, In-Q-Tel, BBN Technologies and of course TRUSTe.

And now somewhere at the bottom of this chain lies ATS.
User avatar
mojo
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby mojo » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:32 pm

Hope this helps to define the connections more readily, these are the verifiable connections, i'll update the flow chart as more information is verified.

[edit to add it should read NVCA not NVAC....my bad].
Attachments
Picture 3.JPG
Picture 3.JPG (86.82 KiB) Viewed 2837 times
User avatar
mojo
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: ATS and their TRUSTe certification.

Postby moomin » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:51 pm

It's funny the things you can dig up when you poke around a little.

http://www.o-a.com/archive/1997/December/0032.html is a web-captured moment from many years ago from a previous employment of Bill Irvine, and as you can see, his intentions in those days was still to figure out a way to wring the users for all the info they could to keep the bucks flowing!

Another hard part is convincing consumers to give up their information (net
users tend to be Libertarian in nature).
Gee, I wonder why that could be Bill? Could it be because you view the ats crowd as 'consumers' and not 'members'?

Ohm and I almost forgot the follow-up reply here....
http://www.o-a.com/archive/1997/December/0040.html
moomin
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:48 am

PreviousNext

Google

Return to ATS Watch

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron