What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

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What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby Phalenx5 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:29 pm

I've been seeing a lot of anti-denying-ignorance shown on ATS lately. Anti-denying=ignorance is ignorance of the reality... it's their way of denying the truth even when they know that what they are looking at is false they still claim it to be true. This has a lot to do with their party affiliation and what they believe in... based on their party affiliation they spread lies as to who does what and they give links that back up their point even though their sources have zero to little credibility. Whatever happened with the motto deny ignorance? I mean, even with the moderators, they're modding posts that they disagree with. Whatever happened to free speech and intelligent users on ATS?
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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby MrPenny » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:15 pm

ATS is no longer a discussion site. It has morphed into a "soapbox" site; where the contributions have devolved into simply "shouting" opinion at others, and ignoring the hecklers in the crowd that attempt to parse the statements; showing the lapses in reasoning, poor fact gathering, and/or other factors that drive critical thinkers to distraction.

I made the mistake of wandering into the political forums recently.....I was genuinely disgusted by the childish hyperbole and rhetoric that some were passing off as "political" discussion. When posts that completely refuted the original post were made...it was astonishing to see how willfully ignored they were.....ignored it seemed, solely for the reason of continuing the stupidity, and taking it to new levels.

Remember,it's not about discussion anymore.....it's about "being heard", and being exploited for the entertainment factor.
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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:31 pm

MrPenny wrote:Remember,it's not about discussion anymore.....it's about "being heard", and being exploited for the entertainment factor.


Indeed. A good summary. And it goes well beyond ATS and even the internet. This seems to be what our entire society has devolved into. I think it started with shows like Jerry Springer and any number of other talkshows where the purpose was ratings and the vehicle was sensationalism, coupled with people who just want their 15 minutes of fame. So ATS becomes every yahoo's attempt at having their very own "talk show". :roll:

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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby Phalenx5 » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:01 pm

I agree. There are a lot of racists on ATS now. The mods aren't doing anything about it. Once Obama is inaugurated the site might get even worse than like it is now. On the political issues form they only have propaganda about Obama there... they don't have anything factual about him there. They whine and bitch and claim that he is the antichrist. It's stupid really. They need to grow up.
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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby ryguy » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:15 pm

Yeah...I've received some pretty racist emails about Obama from friends who think it's "funny" to have a picture of Obama in one shape or another incorporating fried chicken and watermelon into the humor. Age-old bigoted stereotypes aren't funny...it's crazy how much of that crap is coming out of the woodwork.

But then again, it's great that at least a majority of the country have removed their head from their _ss and are capable of judging a man for his character (good or bad) and not the color of his skin.

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ATS is partisan.

Postby Phalenx5 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:27 pm

Partisan=heavily favoring one party or the other. ATS is a partisan conspiracy website. When Bush was in power they had conspiracy theories about Bush and now they have people making conspiracy theories about Obama. What can ATS do to make the website less partisan?
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Re: ATS is partisan.

Postby Access Denied » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:54 pm

Phalenx5 wrote:What can ATS do to make the website less partisan?

Stop encouraging people to make up ridiculous conspiracy theories by requiring them to actually have some evidence that isn’t contradicted by all the other evidence that’s out there… like with 9/11.

In other words put up or shut up.

Anyone can form a "theory" by cherry picking "evidence" and ignoring the facts that don't fit... and there’s a sucker born every minute who’ll buy it too.

P.S. I moved to this to your existing thread since it's related to ATS's failure to deny ignorance.
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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby the|exx » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:48 am

MrPenny wrote:When posts that completely refuted the original post were made...it was astonishing to see how willfully ignored they were.....ignored it seemed, solely for the reason of continuing the stupidity, and taking it to new levels.


Agreed MrPenny, but I must admit that your intelligent responses and level of critical thinking is sorely missed over there. I used to think that the site needed guys like you (and me) to level the playing field, but now I'm starting to realize that it's a futile pursuit.

Denying ignorance at ATS is as useful as asking a brick wall to ponder it's existence.

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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby Mr B » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:35 pm

Seems quite a few of ATS's members think "denying ignorance" means shouting "deny ignorance" a lot!

Then they go and post something dumb in another thread. :?

If only members would read, think, reply, think about what they've written and THEN hit the "post reply" button, but oh no....gotta post like mad....gotta get those points....so much to do...no time to waste....a quick one-liner's OK!

Stoooopid!

Even S.O. ( :^o ) has been posting frantically recently, his spelling is terrible these days.
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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby MoonMine » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:39 pm

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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby mojo » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:14 pm

Mr B wrote:....gotta post like mad....gotta get those points....so much to do...no time to waste....a quick one-liner's OK!



which is exactly the point (pardon the pun) of their points and star and flags system, give the peasants something to accumulate (even worthless rubbish) and they will toe the line.
it really is a remarkable social experiment when you think about it, folk bartering their content (in some cases their own very good intellectual property) for pixels on a computer screen.
what is it that numbs so many peoples minds to the obvious delusion of points and stars and flags, surely it can't just be ego?
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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby ryguy » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:01 pm

mojo wrote:what is it that numbs so many peoples minds to the obvious delusion of points and stars and flags, surely it can't just be ego?


That's right. For some people motivation of ego is much stronger than financial motivation. That's the premise ATS is built on - as opposed to sites like Associated Content or Helium where the incentive provided to members to generate content is financial. Which is better? Well, I'm biased because 80% of my writing these days is done to put food on the table (the remaining 20% volunteer writing is obviously RU/paranormal research) - so I don't really know which is better. Numbers aren't always a fair comparison, because some sites have had more time to build up membership - but Associated Content blows ATS out of the water by far. Probably a more fair comparison is Helium.com - another "crowd-driven" content website, but they use a financial incentive model instead of a point-system that uses ego/pride as incentive. Even Helium is beating ATS in numbers, especially lately.

Red- Associated Content, Orange - Helium, Blue - ATS

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Obviously, I personally left ATS, with Zep, to build RU in parallel as a more analytical/critical thinking venue - a safe place where people could conduct research. Sort of like a scientific scratch-pad of those paranormal topics while using ATS as a huge library for data/information/news sources. But after seeing nonsense given attention for the sake of attention - like Lear, Stone, Sleeper, etc...I realized that as a person who believes in pulling Ufology out of the trash bin, visiting ATS would be supporting the further commercialization/entertainmentalization (is that a word?) of Ufology. For me it was sort of like the decision to buy locally grown produce instead of pesticide-covered veggies at the grocery store. Or shopping at the local hardware store instead of at Wal-Mart.

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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby longhaircowboy » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:24 pm

You're so right ry. I had accumulated vast sums of points because Springer liked what I did in reference to sleeper and Mike Horn and other things I did in the UFO forum. But man when Johnboy Lear showed up with his science fiction work and I went after him that was the beginning of the end. And now sleeper is a god over there. Peshaw. ATS is dead to me.
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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby the|exx » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:08 am

longhaircowboy wrote:And now sleeper is a god over there.


Hmmm, not really. Sleeper is only a 'god' (as you say) for the 'Need To Believe' crowd. Sleeper is dead IMHO. Lear never really bothered me. I just looked on his work as fictional camp fire stories and invested no emotional energy against it.

In the long run, ATS's policies, policing of T&C and moderator behavior will implode on itself. The current system is set up to alienate (pardon the pun) the critical thinker. Alienate them enough and they leave. Ergo, threads die a quick death without the skeptics. Let's face it; for each skeptical/critical thinking post, there must be at least 3 rebuttals or ad hominem attacks from the nut jobs. Ka Ching! Ka Ching!

Another major issue I have with ATS is the encouragement of mental illness. Tell someone they need to seek help and see what happens to you. In the real world, we know this is the logical advise you give someone who is displaying all the classic signs of paranoid delusional behavior... but not at ATS. For all we know, encouraging these whack jobs may result in a suicide or murder....

"Yes, your government is following you in a black chopper, the aliens are probing your rectum, you have a tracking chip in your head, a bug in your phone, a camera in your new digital tv, which incidentally, really is sending you personal messages and taking pictures of you masturbating to your favorite porn channel". "BTW, FEMA has a special cell in a concentration camp with your name engraved on it". "Better dig yourself a hole in them there hills and grab yourself a gun and some kool-aid!" :roll:

That's the same lack of responsibility as serving a paralytic drunk another whiskey and handing him his car keys.

OK, I've embellished it a bit but I feel I make a valid point. ATS is morally bankrupt!

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Re: What's with the increase of ignorance on ATS?

Postby ryguy » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:01 pm

Unfortunately, we've personally seen current and former Intel scientists doing the same thing to civilian nutjobs who believe in UFO's. It's the strangest thing to watch as a guy who truly believes he's reverse engineering Alien propulsion technology gets encouraged and supported by someone who's supposedly a currently a staff member (a very intelligent one at that) at CIA or the ODNI.

The only response I've gotten back when asked "why" he does it is that according to him, sometimes it's safer for them psychologically if you don't challenge their reality, and simply let them play it out in a way that's safe enough for themselves and the people around them. In some cases they are his friends, in other cases I have no idea what the relationship is...very odd, that's all.

I guess the mentality is that, if thinking that you're a partner with the CIA in an effort to protect and develop alien technology is keeping someone from the alternative (realizing that they're crazy, that their world-view is all false, and jumping off the cliff), then apparently allowing them to continue believing is the lesser of two evils.

I can't say I agree with that rationale, but it's the only explanation I can come up with for why perfectly sane and intelligent men allow nutjobs to continue believing and spouting off the things they do. This is a bit off-topic, because I don't believe that ATS is government-influenced, but it does seem to be the same approach. We have evidence of at least two of these guys (one allegedly a current intel scientist, and one a former) encouraging a particular believer's MJ-12 related paranoias.

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