Anti-semitism on ATS.

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Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Phalenx5 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:25 pm

I've been noticing a lot of anti-semitism lately. Is anyone else getting peeved off at this? It's just one more way ATS is failing at denying ignorance: people on ATS are letting their anger at Israel get in the way of letting them deny ignorance, and, the mods aren't doing much to stop this new wave of anti-semitism.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby ryguy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:20 pm

Can you offer some examples of anti-semitism on ATS?
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Phalenx5 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:33 pm

I could go through ATS and point out specific threads that have anti-semantic comments in them but there would be way too many of them. Would you mind if I just summarized the anti-semantic talking points that people are using on ATS?
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby ryguy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:36 pm

That works - but if you provide any actual quote you gotta provide a link back to ATS or Bill has a panic attack and starts threatening us with fictitious lawsuits.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Phalenx5 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:51 pm

Alright... here is a quotation from ATS on Iran possibly intervening that I think contains some hint of anti-semantic comments in it.
Iran Threatens to Break Israel's Gaza Blockade

Sorry if this has been posted already.....
I am happy to see Iran standing up in this situation. The people in Gaza need help and have for a long time. Even if it is for Iran to make a statement, the side effect of the people getting some much needed supplies is good. I hope they go through with it.
I'm not taking sides, IMO people are people and all have the right to exist. Unfortunately a lot have to suffer over the actions of a few.

http://www.worldpress.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread424797/pg1

From the breaking general news forum by the poster airteck.

I wanted to show that post because that really is what these posts are like. Usually these anti-Israel posts will show some quotations by a leader who is against Israel and they will praise these other leaders as the good guys. A bunch of users have been making Israel seem like the bad guys for invading Hammas, but, rather than talking about the war objectively, these users are showing their bias against Israel and making it seem like this is a holocaust of some sort.

Whenever some nation (even an enemy nation) says they're going to fight these users root for that enemy nation. They say things, like that the Israel state is doing horrible things, and they basically blame the Jews for it. Some people have even went so far as to support the abolition of the Jewish state and tried to hide his anti-semanticism in a thread that I debated with the user in.

I think that it's just shameful really. ATS is a place to deny ignorance yet these people are promoting it all over the place with their anti-semantic comments. It's not that they're just against Israel's actions it's that they are making it into an anti-Jewish problem with the way they say what they have to say

Do you see what I'm saying? A lot of the users because of their hatred for the region are making anti-semantic comments. It's getting out of hand. ATS even had to make an announcement about it. You should see the breaking general news forum.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Jack'sDead » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:49 pm

Phalenx5 wrote:I've been noticing a lot of anti-semitism lately. Is anyone else getting peeved off at this? It's just one more way ATS is failing at denying ignorance: people on ATS are letting their anger at Israel get in the way of letting them deny ignorance, and, the mods aren't doing much to stop this new wave of anti-semitism.


I usually found the opposite to be true over there. One member I know of went to a lot of work to put a piece together and they come down on him pretty hard for it. It was a sort of "Holocaust denial" topic he had started, but was well-researched and presented as a legitimate topic of discussion. There were a lot of other things too, that made me really think that legitimate discussions were being censored in a biased manner.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Jack'sDead » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:50 pm

ryguy wrote:That works - but if you provide any actual quote you gotta provide a link back to ATS or Bill has a panic attack and starts threatening us with fictitious lawsuits.


Do the links work? Everytime I ever tried, I get blocked with some childish message about this forum.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Jack'sDead » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:59 pm

Phalenx5 wrote:Alright... here is a quotation from ATS on Iran possibly intervening that I think contains some hint of anti-semantic comments in it...


Picking a side or having empathy for the Palestinians does not make one anti-Semitic. Even calling for the end if Israel really. So long as it's a political debate and not a religious one. Easy to get them intertwined I know, but I think that perhaps you are being too sensitive.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:40 am

Jack'sDead wrote:
ryguy wrote:That works - but if you provide any actual quote you gotta provide a link back to ATS or Bill has a panic attack and starts threatening us with fictitious lawsuits.


Do the links work? Everytime I ever tried, I get blocked with some childish message about this forum.


lol...yeah that's on ATS' end. When they couldn't succeed in debating their detractors here, they decided to put a filter in for all links to ATS coming from here. Come to think of it, they are circumventing their own copyright rules aren't they? lol...whatever, that particular fight is pointless and fruitless. You can't force a troubled child to stop acting stupid - sometimes they just have to eventually grow up on their own.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:42 am

Jack'sDead wrote:
Phalenx5 wrote:Alright... here is a quotation from ATS on Iran possibly intervening that I think contains some hint of anti-semantic comments in it...


Picking a side or having empathy for the Palestinians does not make one anti-Semitic. Even calling for the end if Israel really. So long as it's a political debate and not a religious one. Easy to get them intertwined I know, but I think that perhaps you are being too sensitive.


Yeah...IMHO, I agree. If people were overwhelmingly attacking Jews as a group and in a hateful manner, and the mods weren't doing anything about it, I'd agree, but all I see in the thread are people who hold a particular strong anti-Israeli political position regarding a horrible crisis. I'm sure one could find just as many anti-Iran comments on ATS if you conduct a search?
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby MrPenny » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:47 pm

Unless you've spent some time there recently, one or two examples don't tell the entire story. There's a thread over there now with "Jewish Parasite Bankers" in the title. How much more focused with bigotry can one get? The general tone of anti-semitism and bigotry is in the level of hyperbole and rhetoric used to describe the Israeli's actions.

Heck, I started a thread titled "Invitation To Jew Haters....", just to engage some of their ignorant rhetoric. Nope, nuttin' doing...it got closed real quick. However, "America, The Latest Victim of the Jewish Parasite Bankers"....that one stays.

I can't do it over there anymore. The level of unreasoned stupidity is becoming suffocating. I don't know what happened to change discussion into simply shouting from an Internet soapbox.....maybe it's just this f'ed up culture.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby ryguy » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:53 am

MrPenny wrote:I can't do it over there anymore. The level of unreasoned stupidity is becoming suffocating. I don't know what happened to change discussion into simply shouting from an Internet soapbox.....maybe it's just this f'ed up culture.


Partially I think you've hit the nail on the head - but another aspect of it is that the Internet is now a conglomerate of much more of the mainstream public than ever before. In years past, you had "Internet" discussions, which mostly took part on Usenet, and among a small niche of fairly Intelligent folks. Conversations were focused and detailed - you can find some amazing documents in the archive of discussions going back to the 1980's.

On the flip side, today you've got high-schoolers, soccer moms, guys sitting in some IT call center in India, etc.....you've got exponentially more people visiting these discussion forums and commenting. As traffic increases, more of the populace gets involved...and I've got to tell you, from my experiences moderating comments at other high-traffic websites, my opinion of the overall intelligence level of the general human population now making use of the Internet is taking a serious nosedive. Humanity's gene pool is screwed.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Access Denied » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:08 pm

MrPenny wrote:I can't do it over there anymore. The level of unreasoned stupidity is becoming suffocating.

Welcome to the club sir. My only question is what took so long? :D

ryguy wrote:Humanity's gene pool is screwed.

Well, when somebody says we’re all created equally my response is the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale would seem to indicate God has not perfected the process. :)

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

[indeed it seems one could use the bell curve as an argument against Intelligent Design]

The good news I suppose is the most prolific idiots are more or less confined to one place. :lol:

Question for the OP… how is tolerating Anti-Semitism on ATS any different from tolerating Anti-Americanism?

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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby MrPenny » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:59 pm

Access Denied wrote:
Welcome to the club sir. My only question is what took so long?


Because for a while there (a short while), it was possible to engage some posters in a semblance of back-n-forth, and tear the arguments up. Now it seems, most of the contributors haven't bothered to develop a reasoned opinion of their own...they simply see a few YouTube videos, read some dork's output on an Internet site, and decide "that's my opinion!" And it's so blatant; many of them are incapable of expanding on the opinion, or supporting it, with nothing more than the very same rhetoric, nonsense, and ad-hominem attacks.

I suppose people in Western Cultures are so conditioned to accept what they are told, that the ability to filter information critically, search for opposing viewpoints, or simply other viewpoints, has fallen along the wayside.

I have very few axes to grind.....but the sharpest one I like to hone is the ability to expand a viewpoint or ponder circumstances from different perspectives. So when someone expresses what looks like wildly one-sided rants, it aggravates me, and influences me to attempt to inject any other viewpoint; just to see if the person is capable of addressing that type of conflict. Sadly, most cannot. I suppose that's why in one thread at that fluffy-free-for-all, I've been labeled an Israeli propagandist...simply because others couldn't wrap their minds around the concept of actually considering all of the influences that affect the Mid East today.

Incidentally, I don't get the "I'm not anti-Jewish, or anti-Israeli...I'm anti-Zionist...." Huh....I realize Zionism comes in several brands (there has even been a form of black Zionism), but when it's expressed within the context of the Israeli state....what is it then? How can it be separated from the others? And furthermore.....why aren't they worked into a lather about "Manifest Destiny?" I really don't know why that particular nationalistic movement has been the target of so much venom.
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Re: Anti-semitism on ATS.

Postby Access Denied » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:53 pm

Agreed, those are some excellent observations…

“You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"

More later, we’re off to the bar to watch the Super Bowl… although I don’t even know who’s playing. #-o
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