My Experience

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My Experience

Postby MisterVesuvius » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:42 pm

I want to start out by saying that I am thrilled to have found an alternative forum to the seemingly mainstream ATS. ATS Watch is actually what allowed me to uncover RU, and I'm very pleased to be here to add to your ongoing discussions.

First, I wanted to start off by explaining a little bit about myself. I'm a grad-student, studied undergrad in Advertising and particularly online advertising. I've also been an amateur astronomer for about a decade, and have an insatiable appetite for UFOlogy, paranormal studies, etc. Anyways, I was an ATS "lurker" before it was commercialized. I enjoyed some of the whackos that posted there, and gained some great insight to some intelligent topics there; such as the military-industrial complex, metaphysical history, and paranormal research methods. I enjoyed their UFO topics from time-to-time, but I think ATS falls victim to it's own popularity now. There are tons and tons of hoaxes that don't even get marked as such. But that's not my main gripe with ATS.

ATS is operated as a business. It's not operated as a forum. Bill, Mark and whoever else like to think that they have created a "media empire" of sorts. And while I certainly give them credit for their work with video, and their discussion board, I can't drink their kool-aid. Why? Because they're a--holes. Plain and simple.

Starting with Bill; this guy thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. He thinks he knows everything, and acts like he has a Ph.D in Internetsology. The guy has delusions of grandeur in EVERY post he makes. It's obvious, reading his posts here, and comparing them with the linguistics on his ATS posts that either
    A.) Somebody writes his posts for him
    B.) He uses some Synonymns or something similar to make himself sound smarter

Here, when he posts, he sounds like your average guy who doesn't really know anything about anything, and is just an argumentative person. On ATS, he tries to make himself sound like a master of the English language. It's quite funny. Other than his egotistical personality, he's overall just mean to begin with. His posts are condescending, and he comes off as a real jerk.

Mark, or..."Springer." Along with Bill, he likes to think that ATS is a huge success. I won't argue that it's obviously successful, but it's not what they make it out to be. If it was THAT good, they wouldn't have to rely on ATS's horrible placed, intrusive advertisments as their only revenue. They'd have side projects going on, or they'd be handed offer sheets from Fortune 500 companies. ATS is a business, and a small one at that. Springers comments to members are often rude, and inconsiderate. That is the FIRST sign of unprofessionalism. If I could write a dictionary, next to unprofessional would be Mark's picture. No wonder all of his previous start-ups have failed.

The business world is full of guys like these though, so I guess it's nothing new. I'm not even sure if ATS Watch is still active, it looks like the bulk of debate happened over 2 years ago. I guess I'm a little late to the party. Never-the-less, thanks for letting me vent here, I look forward to exploring and learning from the rest of the forums.
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Re: My Experience

Postby the|exx » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:55 pm

That was a very funny post in parts. Internetsology? Golden!

I don't think Mark is as bad as you say. I actually like him a lot. He's done some good turns by me over the years. I can't warm to SO though.

What has annoyed me of late is that one particular moderator has made some anti skeptic threads, which sends a bad message to all the whackjobs that skeptics are open slather. Perhaps they want to push us all out of there. After all, its the tabloid-esque threads & incendiary threads that generate the most pages and consequently page hits too. This is great for their business model!

Deny Ignorance? WTF does that mean? If anything at all, it's subjective and ambiguous. There is no clear message there. What is 'ignorance' after all? It's up to the user to define what ignorance means to them. To the believer, Denying Ignorance means 'opening their mind' and believing that anything floating in the sky is a UFO. It means that when a prosaic answer is found or conclusion reached, it's all part of a nefarious government cover up.

To the skeptic, Denying Ignorance means drawing no conclusions until more evidence has surfaced. It means not jumping on bandwagons or being emotionally swayed by any material. It means research and hard work to uncover the truth. It means exposing hoaxes, scams and charlatans.

We have two different perceptions of what 'Deny Ignorance' means at ATS and never the twain shall meet. All it's really achieved is that both skeptics and believers feel they have some moral high ground over the other. That somehow, one group of people is more entitled on the forum than the other.

It makes for great s^~t fights, more pages of circular arguments that go nowhere, and yet again, more page hits. Business is good!

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Re: My Experience

Postby ryguy » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:15 pm

Is business still good?
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Re: My Experience

Postby the|exx » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:00 pm

ryguy wrote:Is business still good?


I wouldn't know how business is mate. That was sarcasm ryguy. It blows over there ATM...

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Re: My Experience

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:26 pm

Hey the|exx,
Good to see you popping in.

Btw, if there was an award for best avatar and best sig, you'd be a double winner ;)
.
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Re: My Experience

Postby ryguy » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:28 pm

the|exx wrote:
I wouldn't know how business is mate. That was sarcasm ryguy. It blows over there ATM...

the|exx


I was hoping you had some insight because I'm still trying to understand why all the trend graphs across the net point to a flattening out/decline starting in late 2009, but Bill insisted here that business couldn't be better!

And with that statement, now Bill will never forgive me. :-)

-Ryan
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Re: My Experience

Postby Why Not? » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:50 am

The|exx…..

I don't think Mark is as bad as you say.


I tend to agree with that.

I have interacted with Mark on a number of occasions & I have found him to be quite a decent guy.

I can't warm to SO though.


Based on his effort last week, I must say he appears quite capable of treating members very flippantly & disrespectfully. The kindest thing I can say is that he might be overworked from the epic ATS 2010 “rebuild” he has thrown himself into during the past months.

What has annoyed me of late is that one particular moderator has made some anti skeptic threads, which sends a bad message to all the whackjobs that skeptics are open slather.


That’s what I can’t understand.

That moderator wields a lot of influence, by way of ATS Live, his high profile moderation, etc…

On the one hand…..

During my many interactions & discussions with that moderator on ATS Live during my UFO oriented discussions, we appear to see “eye to eye”. His commentary appears sensible & rational.

On the other hand.....

That moderator has established his own threads & posted within other threads with a degree of arrogance & a “believer bias” that has done a lot of damage.

The end result of that which I have mentioned above is…..

I have presently lost all motivation to participate in the UFO forum over there…..which you know is saying something. I feel the serious efforts at being analytical & informative are simply being "drowned in the swamp" that forum has become.

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Re: My Experience

Postby the|exx » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:25 am

Why Not? wrote:
I have presently lost all motivation to participate in the UFO forum over there…..which you know is saying something. I feel the serious efforts at being analytical & informative are simply being "drowned in the swamp" that forum has become.

Kind regards
Why Not?


I haven't been able to bring myself to participating in that forum for months now... I've lost my mojo! People simply fabricate more during quiet periods of 'UFO activity'. It's about as original as a Chinese iPod.

It's great to see you here though WN. I should be able to sway a few more people over to these shores. MBL has joined & m0r is looking for a new nesting ground too. RU is a little quieter than what you may be used to but it's mostly killer and no filler. Check out some of the fine work the guys have done here under the 'links' link and in the archives.

|exx
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Re: My Experience

Postby ryguy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:46 pm

"mostly killer and no filler"

Damn....may I use that as a tagline? lol...that's awesome!
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Re: My Experience

Postby Why Not? » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:35 pm

The|exx…..

the|exx wrote:I haven't been able to bring myself to participating in that forum for months now... I've lost my mojo!


Perhaps MzSmokalot can get your mojo back for you with her new UFO video.

I think she'll make another one if you send her a donut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr6GEi6a ... er&list=UL

the|exx wrote:It's great to see you here though WN. I should be able to sway a few more people over to these shores. MBL has joined & m0r is looking for a new nesting ground too.


I have now received many enquiries about where else people can go to find “more killer & less filler”.

I have told them to look over here if they cannot find good material on ATS, whilst noting to them that buried in the “ATS UFO forum swamp” (if I may use that expression again) there are some very interesting discussions that I have enjoyed very much.

I am advised we will see some more “friends” over her quite soon.

It seems they are taking the same approach as me.....viewing ATS as entertaining in a lighter-hearted way with a very occasional interesting UFO discussion, whilst RU relentlessly approaches things in a much more focused & analytical manner.

the|exx wrote:RU is a little quieter than what you may be used to but it's mostly killer and no filler.


Well…..

That’s fine.

One can only cope with so much silly material, particularly when ill informed & rude discussion supporting that silly material appears to be supported by biased modding.

the|exx wrote:Check out some of the fine work the guys have done here under the 'links' link and in the archives.


Yes…..there is some very good work here.

I am working my way through a lot of the material.

Kind regards
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Re: My Experience

Postby the|exx » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:44 pm

ryguy wrote:"mostly killer and no filler"

Damn....may I use that as a tagline? lol...that's awesome!


LOL! It's all yours ryguy! :D

|exx
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Re: My Experience

Postby the|exx » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:50 pm

Why Not? wrote:I have now received many enquiries about where else people can go to find “more killer & less filler”.
I am advised we will see some more “friends” over her quite soon.

Kind regards
Why Not?


If you've had a look at the 'Turkey Pyramid' thread but the debunking in the first 5 pages was almost non existent so I stopped reading. It's already descending into a whack-job free-for-all with no one to pull on the reigns.

|exx =D>
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Re: My Experience

Postby Why Not? » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:49 pm

the|exx wrote:If you've had a look at the 'Turkey Pyramid' thread but the debunking in the first 5 pages was almost non existent so I stopped reading.


Yes.....

I looked at that too.....I agree with you.

Amongst many, many others, I think another pertinent example of that to which you allude is the current discussion about the "diamond shaped" UFO. On page 2 of that discussion, a video was posted showing the person who created the GGI for the video verifying he had done so via a screen recording. However despite that being posted, 9 pages later people keep stating the video is "real". Some people seem to think the explanatory video is "disinfo". Others appear not to have bothered to view the explanatory video. Either way, the discussion becomes very frustrating.

That thread now has 66 flags, the opening post has 39 stars & as I mentioned above, 9 pages later people are still arguing its real. The thread also remains in the Aliens & UFOs Forum, despite the fact I think it should almost certainly be assigned to the Hoax Forum, contingent on your strict definition & usage of the term "hoax".....i.e. perhaps it could be argued it wasn't a hoax because the person who made the video did not intend to hoax / trick people with the video.

the|exx wrote:It's already descending into a whack-job free-for-all


You have always expressed yourself more directly in such instances & you continue to do so.

But.....you are right! That's really is what's going on.

the|exx wrote:with no one to pull on the reigns.


And there it is.....the problem I believe is at the heart of this.

I think the site may be struggling with strategy & struggling with implementation.

I think they find themselves a little conflicted in their strategic direction & objectives. Because of the type of member that has inadvertently empowered, I think they are finding themselves overwhelmed by what is going on, both in sheer volume & also the strong emotions involved.

It seems like a feedback loop that could be difficult from which to exit.

Kind regards
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Re: My Experience

Postby m0r1arty » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:35 am

I'd swear by your writing styles gentleman that I'd have met you before at some point.

What a jolly nice site you have here - I must tell my fellow like-minded friends about it.

I'm off for a browse - toodlepips!

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Re: My Experience

Postby the|exx » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:16 am

Why Not? wrote:
the|exx wrote:with no one to pull on the reigns.


And there it is.....the problem I believe is at the heart of this.

I think the site may be struggling with strategy & struggling with implementation.

I think they find themselves a little conflicted in their strategic direction & objectives. Because of the type of member that has inadvertently empowered, I think they are finding themselves overwhelmed by what is going on, both in sheer volume & also the strong emotions involved.

It seems like a feedback loop that could be difficult from which to exit.

Kind regards
Why Not?


And you are every bit as eloquent, as I am brash! You make some great points there as always WN.

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