New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

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New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

Postby Illudium Q-36 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:46 pm

This is my first thread here so I thought I would stick to recent developments over at ATS.

For those who are unaware ther have been 3 new forums added to ATS this week, 2 in the news section '2012 US Elections' and 'World War 3', and one in the conspiracy section 'Geo-Engineering and Chemtrails'.
Now I suppose we can give them the US Election one for free that is understandable and even possibly reasonable, there are no real issues about that although I don't see the same effort being made for UK elections, which is another huge part of the user base. But it's the other two that seem to not do much for the 'deny ignorance' mantra of the site.

Let's look at the 'Geo-Engineering and Chemtrails' forum as a start, now I guess it is fair content for a conspiracy site but it clearly shows a new direction in the way chemtrail threads are to be dealt with. Until recently all related threads were ending up in skunkworks, which seemed fair enough given the brilliant work done by OzWeatherman and others in outlining the bare facts and science behind the myth. It seemed at one point the rightful home for chemtrailers to dwell in. But now by adding the words Geo-engineering to it in one foul swoop hands credibilty back to them, without any real advances in their argument. Geo-engineering itself has some merit to it, but why add chemtrails to it. I just don't see any reason why all of the sudden they feel the need to give credibilty to the flailing argument that is chemtrails. Surely there has been times in the past when they could of, why now?
To me at least, this seems like their first step backwards.

That brings me to the next forum, the 'World War 3' section. I mean really? What? WW3? :lol:
Quite possibly one the most ridiculous fear mongering piece's of crap they can claim ownership of. Last time I checked we were not part of any great global conflict. Not only is it a disgrace to the site it is a disgrace to the honour of those who served during the first two WW's.
I just don't get this one, are trying to say that we are in WW3 now? That's the impression I get. It's ludicrous, any person with a half functioning brain can clearly see that it is not the case. Sure there are many different conflicts
happening but the word different is an important one here. Maybe they are trying to pre-empt a conflict? That's just dumb if so and would be nothing more than heresay and speculation at the end of the day. The business model is becoming more and more one based on exploiting peoples fears and anxiety. It's bordering on cruelty.
I don't know, it's the addition this forum I feel is incredibly damaging to the site and it's potential visitors. Maybe it could of been called something else and it would be less laughable. It is clearly the biggest step backwards in my mind.

So what do you guys think? Am I reading to much into it maybe?
To be honest I don't really expect anything less from ATS.
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Re: New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

Postby Archer17 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:56 pm

I don't go over there too much - the last time was when someone citied a poster debunking the recent Jerusalem "UFO" video(s) - so I don't know the overall "flavor" of that board. I was always under the impression that ATS was primarily a woo woo forum, am I wrong? I haven't really went through the ATS threads here but am surprised I see so many of them. Are many here ATS refugees?

Anyway, I agree that talk (or threads) of WW3 is kinda silly, especially if one knows the geopolitical sitrep, but fear-mongering and sensationalism is the nature of the woo beast. When you consider that most of those sensationalist propagators use met-mining as their primary tool then it's obvious that they skip over a lot of stuff that blows holes in their premise, so THE TRUTH is obviously not their primary motivation. Best thing to do if one has the time is to bludgeon them with facts and introduce critical thinking. It probably won't work with everyone but the ones that are not pushing an agenda or hiding from reality might have an "aha!" moment. The biggest and best cut-to-the-chase response to someone pushing a WW3 scenario is to cite the lack of unity on the world stage. There's no blocs like we had during the Cold War and prior and, as we are seeing with the NATO intervention in Libya, even anachronistic organizations like NATO are not exactly speaking/acting with one voice. WW3 fear-mongers like to invoke Israel and Iran but neither country is liked enough to drag the whole world down if things get hot between 'em. You might see a regional war but, outside of Syria and Hezbollah in Lebanon I don't see anyone going to bat for Iran and, outside of a reluctant US, I don't see anyone going to bat for Israel. If folks over there want to worry about something tell them the odds are higher that we might get clobbered by a space rock we didn't see coming than WW3... :-k On second thought, don't tell 'em that. :wink:
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Re: New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

Postby Illudium Q-36 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:30 pm

Archer17 wrote: If folks over there want to worry about something tell them the odds are higher that we might get clobbered by a space rock we didn't see coming than WW3... :-k On second thought, don't tell 'em that. :wink:



Lol, No. :D :P

To be honest it's hard to pigeonhole ATS as a woo woo site, although it's also quite easy to as well. There certainly are a fair share of nutters and imbeciles to bring it to the surface. But there is/was a good amount of reliable content and intelligent users that try to.. for want of a better word.. combat the lunacy, you just have to dig a bit deeper, and it depends on what you're looking for too.

There seem to be a few refugees here, certainly some familiar user names. I like the fact that there is a place here that you can keep up with happenings over at ATS given that some of what you may want to discuss here would most likely get you banned there.

so THE TRUTH is obviously not their primary motivation.


Clearly this.
The fact that it is a move started by the site owners is what makes it particularly annoying. As I mentioned this is the first I had heard of WW3 taking place I'm sure I would of heard about it by now and I'd probably be dodging a draft somewhere. But it's not the posters promoting it it's the admin pushing it to the unwashed, and like the good sheep they are they will follow. It's clearly easy to debunk but how do you go about debunking a title on a forum. :?
As for chemtrails, well I figured that ship had sailed a long time ago.

Now of course I like many here know better and this is typical ATS crap, I just feel that as long as that site is using the 'Deny Ignorance' motto with statements like...
'Ignorance is the social disease of history. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance. We deny it. it's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.'
... then it should be brought to attention as often as possible when they are doing the complete opposite and embracing ignorance.
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Re: New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

Postby the|exx » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:17 am

The fundamental issue I have always taken with ATS (this is no secret) is the danger such topics pose to people suffering from paranoid delusions and schizophrenia etc. If your looking for a forum that reinforces such pathologies, ATS (among many), is clearly guilty and could be conducting 'business' with a higher degree of care to the community at large.

The user generated content argument doesn't work for me. To me that is similar to a school providing a playground and then claiming it's not their issue when bullying and exploitation occurs in said playground.

It is no mystery or secret that certain topics will always attract certain personality types. If you plant flowers, don't be surprised when you attract bees. When you don't clean the yard of crap, don't be surprised when you are inundated with flies. There is an issue of responsibility here that is clearly being ignored.

While moderation is generally of a good standard, more could be done in regard to duty of care beyond the everyday T&C infractions. Because we cannot disprove the member that claims to be the Pleiadian Reincarnation of Jesus, it is no grounds for allowing the delusion to continue and be reinforced by other gullible members with issues of their own. A high degree of probability suggests they are either lying or mentally ill. End of story! Benefit of doubt should not weigh into this equation.

As far as Chemtrails and Geo-Engineering is concerned, I am also very surprised. Mark (Springer) who I do have much respect for has clearly gone down on record as believing it all to be crap (2010 C2C episode with George Knapp). With this in mind, I can only surmise that this is another business decision to increase hits and advertisement revenue. This is a shame.

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Re: New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

Postby Illudium Q-36 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:01 pm

the|exx wrote:The fundamental issue I have always taken with ATS (this is no secret) is the danger such topics pose to people suffering from paranoid delusions and schizophrenia etc. If your looking for a forum that reinforces such pathologies, ATS (among many), is clearly guilty and could be conducting 'business' with a higher degree of care to the community at large.



This is an issue that really bothers me at times, ATS certainly feeds the delusions many members have.
I was browsing RU and there is a thread here that discusses the link between conspiracy's and mental issues which is an interesting topic itself.
But I think you're right though, the clear model of operation for ATS is always going to attract certain types, even occasionally high profile nutters. And the least they can do is try not to aggravate the situation.
Same goes for individual posters too, whether they are just trolling or maybe guininely believe in what they are saying there is a certain responsibility you must take as there are clearly many impressionable kids around.
The internet surely is a strange beast.

The mods do their job well, but I guess part of it also is to allow the more popular BS to go untouched, one former poster springs to mind.

The change in attitude to chemtrails must be down to the bottom line at the end of the day. As you say Springers feelings on the topic is on record, but you gotta pay the bills. Hypocrisy at it's best.
As for the WW3 section, that is just plain and simple tapping into peoples fear. Not what I'd call the best of moves.
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Re: New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

Postby Slippery Jim » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:01 pm

I'm not sure how Springer can sleep at night. He always came across as a genuine guy.

SO, on the other hand, is a manipulative piece of work and responsible for the dumbing-down of ATS.

Just my opinion.
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Re: New forums on ATS... Another step backwards?

Postby chrLz » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:04 am

A clear step forwards, imo. But wait... :) What I mean is - very clearly ATS has dropped the actuality of 'denying ignorance', and their motto is now 'chasing hits at any costs' or perhaps more subtly.. ' the ends justify the means'. So 'forwards' means "how can we attract more idiots?", to the ATS owners.

May I be rather cynical and suggest that ATS' biggest problem *was* that the quality of their little cadre of experts was very poor, and frankly the mods/owners didn't know enough to recognise pretenders and bs artists (like Kit Green..). Don't get me wrong, there *were* many (and still are a few) members with excellent talents (people like depthoffield spring to mind..). But it's the ones ATS *endorsed* that were the problem, along with their decision to drive away 'debunkers'.

So I think the writing was on the wall, simply by observing the debunking cull and those who they put on pedestals... Moving 'forward' is now a matter of working out how best to appeal to the lowest common idiot on the web - thankfully for them, given society's new approach to education, parenting and media, the numbers of the gullibly ill-educated are growing exponentially... And of course many of those have a big chip on their shoulder about how governments have wrecked their lives (nuthin to do with their own incompetence, oh no..). So what better way to make them feel good, than to promote perfect tinfoilhat pairings like geo-engineering and 'chemtrails'. The folks who get sucked in love every minute of this - they can believe that gov'ts are the reason for their failures and ill-health, and therein bask in their own idiocy.


Go on, ask me what I really think.. :D Oh, and this is why I am not participating in the 'how to fix ATS' discussion - once you drunkenly start stumbling down the path of insanity, there awaits nothing at the end but a high cliff...
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