ATS = Altruism + Trust + Sincerity?

Any discussion related to ATS goes here

Postby I.P.Freely » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:34 am

come on toon if I said you were showing a serious lack of intelligence that you would see it as a compliment.....well then again...lol just kidding But to be realistic I had my fair share of rude comments But I stand by the rest if Miss says it she truely believes it.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:43 am

I never said I thought Simon's comment was a compliment. But i concur with his judgement. You and i have a difference of opinion on this. So be it.

cs
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Postby Springer » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:43 am

Sadly, I am going to have to cite my signature and bow out of this lunacy about a fan site being somehow related to reality, it's just WAY TOO "OUT THERE" for me. :lol:

Woot!

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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:49 am

Springer wrote:Sadly, I am going to have to cite my signature and bow out of this lunacy about a fan site being somehow related to reality, it's just WAY TOO "OUT THERE" for me. :lol:

Woot!

Springer...


hahahah excellent decision!
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Postby Simon » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:50 am

Seriously, what are the motives of two of three Amigos then?

Which two are you referring to come to think of it? All three of us have the same goals. We may express ourselves differently being three completely different people but that doesn't change the fact our ultimate aim we'd like is for ATS to become ever more widely known to anyone who wishes to discuss political scandal, conspiracy theory, ETs, etc., etc..

We get angry and defensive over at ATS when we are accused of being dis/misinformation harbingers for a reason.... it's a downright personal insult to the work we put into that website and completely untrue!

Quote from Shawnna - "My purpose in bringing this up here is because it is impossible to discuss ATS motives at ATS without getting trounced upon."

You can discuss ATS motives, but EXPECT me to close threads where the continuation becomes fruitless, or the wild theories being thrown around become slander or unjustified nonsense.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but if it's untrue and becoming a personal attack on my good intentions I will do as I see fit on the website I founded and moderate.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:02 am

Seriously, what are the motives of two of three Amigos then?


...Running naked through the fields of Davos with the Rothschilds and sacrificing fattened babies to the giant Frog maybe??? (...or was that an owl?)

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Postby Max » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:19 am

No toon, not a frog. An owl. Take a look:

http://www.tedgunderson.com/Investigati ... tures3.htm
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Postby Shawnna » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:08 am

Springer wrote:Sadly, I am going to have to cite my signature and bow out of this lunacy about a fan site being somehow related to reality, it's just WAY TOO "OUT THERE" for me. :lol:

Woot!

Springer...



Bye Springer....

:sigh:

Feel free to jump back in if I ask a question or two that you feel qualified to respond to.

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Postby Shawnna » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:58 am

Simon wrote:You obviously can not comprehend the way the gameplay was designed to occur and think it's some form of world-wide attempt at deceit and disinformation.

I didn't create the Majestic-Alliance.com website as a "gag", I don't know how you came to use that descriptor either, I created it as I wanted to play the game and this was an attempt at creating a fan site.



Actually Simon - if you took the time to read the posts - your partner Springer used to word "gag" and my comment was in response to his post which I'll quote here for your convenience.


Springer wrote:This is about as inane as me discovering Zep Tepi had made some gag site and coming here demanding an explanation and declaring RU a farce because of it. That doesn't make sense unless I had ulterior motives, was extremely PARANOID or was utterly ignorant of the internet.

S...



Simon wrote:You do realise video games nowadays are not confined to a 3"x6" controller in front of a small colour TV don't you!? Gameplay to achieve a goal and winning scenario has evolved beyond that. This is the 21st century. Learn to understand that.

There are practically millions of fan sites about video games. Give it a break, you are just making yourself look stupid at the sheer lack of research but obvious amount of chatter you want to throw out into the wild.



I understand that quite well, Simon.

What I also understand is that when someone goes to a fan site for a video game, they know they are going to a fan site for a video game.

When someone chooses to play an online interactive game, they know they are playing an online interactive game.


Simon wrote:You DO have a desire to find conspiracy in nothing, you've made that very obvious.

If its not self-evident that ATS is a discussion website of enormous proportions that is self-sustaining through free user interaction on alternative topics, then I think you should stay off the web!



No, Simon, I'm afraid you are wrong about me.

What I had hoped to do was get straight forward answers from you.

As yet, I have not.

:shakeshead:



Simon wrote:Seriously, what are the motives of two of three Amigos then?

Which two are you referring to come to think of it? All three of us have the same goals. We may express ourselves differently being three completely different people but that doesn't change the fact our ultimate aim we'd like is for ATS to become ever more widely known to anyone who wishes to discuss political scandal, conspiracy theory, ETs, etc., etc..



How do you measure your success, Simon? And to what extent would you and your partners go to make sure ATS became "ever more widely known?"


Would you:

1. Create a virtual reality game that encouraged and promoted setting up websites that included anything required to get the game going and attracting the visits and/or membership desired, including the creation of fake news reports if needed?


If your answer is yes to the above:


2. Would the average web surfer NOT playing your game know that the game-playing websites he accessed through regular search engines (i.e. Google, Yahoo, etc) were just that - involved in a game?


3. Do you have now, or have you ever had, any professional or personal relationship with any of the individuals at Electronic Arts and/or Anim-X?


4. As reported here, and as a self-confessed "fan" of the game, did you set up ATS as a front for the game?



Among the many ethical ambiguities implied by the very premise of the game is its use of real and fake web sites to promote real and hoax news stories. The game designers have gone so far as to create front companies for several of these web sites. They are actively urging fans of the game to create web sites to act as fronts for the game.




Simon wrote:We get angry and defensive over at ATS when we are accused of being dis/misinformation harbingers for a reason.... it's a downright personal insult to the work we put into that website and completely untrue!



Yes - I can certainly see how that would not feel very good.



Shawnna wrote: "My purpose in bringing this up here is because it is impossible to discuss ATS motives at ATS without getting trounced upon."


Simon wrote:You can discuss ATS motives, but EXPECT me to close threads where the continuation becomes fruitless, or the wild theories being thrown around become slander or unjustified nonsense.



Closing threads is one thing, Simon. I have closed a few here when it was clear that tempers had risen and continuing the dialog at that time was not going to be productive.


However, quite a few ATS members have noticed arbitrary banning of members who challenge 'star' guests that appear to function under a separate set of evidence rules, as well as the deletion of threads and posts without explanation and if done 'accidentally' - no effort is made to restore the contributions of those members.


Simon wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but if it's untrue and becoming a personal attack on my good intentions I will do as I see fit on the website I founded and moderate.



Absolutely!!! It is YOUR website and YOUR forum. You can manage it any way you see fit!

But when you start promoting it as ATS = Altruism + Trust + Sincerity, you can expect to be challenged by those who see a blatant disconnect between actions and words.

Always,
Shawnna
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Postby Springer » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:30 am

Shawnna PLEASE the whole bloody world is laughing now, STOP this while you're BEHIND! :o

Uggghhhh if you only had CLUE what, exactly you were commenting on YOU would laugh too! :lol:

Springer...

edit to remove childish "koo-koo"
Last edited by Springer on Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shawnna » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:44 am

And yet another NONE ANSWER.

I'm sure you're not avoiding the questions intentionally, right?

To make it easy for you, here they are again.



How do you measure your success, Simon? And to what extent would you and your partners go to make sure ATS became "ever more widely known?"


Would you:

1. Create a virtual reality game that encouraged and promoted setting up websites that included anything required to get the game going and attracting the visits and/or membership desired, including the creation of fake news reports if needed?


If your answer is yes to the above:


2. Would the average web surfer NOT playing your game know that the game-playing websites he accessed through regular search engines (i.e. Google, Yahoo, etc) were just that - involved in a game?


3. Do you have now, or have you ever had, any professional or personal relationship with any of the individuals at Electronic Arts and/or Anim-X?


4. As reported here, and as a self-confessed "fan" of the game, did you set up ATS as a front for the game?



Among the many ethical ambiguities implied by the very premise of the game is its use of real and fake web sites to promote real and hoax news stories. The game designers have gone so far as to create front companies for several of these web sites. They are actively urging fans of the game to create web sites to act as fronts for the game.



Simple, straight forward questions that anyone promoting their brand as ATS = Altruism + Trust + Sincerity should be more than willing to answer.
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Postby I.P.Freely » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:25 am

Springer wrote:Koo Koo! Koo KOO!

Shawnna PLEASE the whole bloody world is laughing now, STOP this while you're BEHIND! :o

Uggghhhh if you only had CLUE what, exactly you were commenting on YOU would laugh too! :lol:

Springer...


Make that the world -1 I really find it very two faced that Miss is praised in the past
for being a intelligent researcher not afraid for asking tough questons to now being called a fool. What is it is she indeed stupid and her former supporters also stupid and only now able to she is a fool? Where I come from you don,t go and throw your friends under the bus for any reason especialy for asking questons.
And who is this simon dude if he is so all honest web master why is he so bent . If he isn,t up to something he sure is acting like it. I don,t know maybe I,m just to much a surfer. I don,t see anything thats so big a deal does simon think he is somekind of big shot or something he is above being questoned? Anyways whatever ...you may as well just Answer Miss you should know by now she won,t give up no one says she has to like the answers.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:16 pm

IP said:

I really find it very two faced that Miss is praised in the past
for being a intelligent researcher not afraid for asking tough questons to now being called a fool. What is it is she indeed stupid and her former supporters also stupid and only now able to she is a fool? Where I come from you don,t go and throw your friends under the bus for any reason especialy for asking questons.


Check out your own bus-tracks, man. Don't you recall the arbitrary bannings, insults and ill-will aimed at you by 'miss?' Well they're all conveniently gone now but the memory lingers. Can you say- Stockholm Syndrome?

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Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:44 pm

Simon had already responded that he does not support the creation of fake news, yet he is being asked the question again. I don't think that is fair.

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Postby ryguy » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:52 pm

Ok...I was too busy last night to dive in here - and almost chose not to dive in now - but the comments made about Shawnna here, especially by Springer, are unfair.

One thing that has always gotten me into trouble with friends, is a strong desire to peek over to the unpopular side of an argument or discussion and try to see it from a different perspective.

First off I want to make it clear that I don't believe any of the rediculous "government-sponsored" conspiracies that have cropped up every few months or so about ATS. Those are stupid. I also don't believe in any kind of conspiracy whatsoever in regards to Springer, S.O. and Simon (other than a conspiracy to build one of the largest discussion forums on the internet).

However - I believe all three of you, Springer, Simon, and S.O. - have completely misunderstood the point Shawnna is making here. And Springer - your childish "koo koo" comments are offensive and rude. I don't disagree with you on this issue - but seriously, grow up mate.

The point I believe Shawnna is making is that ATS promotes itself as an Altruistic, Sincere, and Honest website - searching for the truth. Valuable researchers congregate there and do important research toward that end - and often times post amazing articles...making available to everyone valuable insight and information.

However, there is another side to ATS, and I believe this is the side that Shawnna takes issue with. It is the "gaming" angle. I've seen "games" pop up on ATS out of a single hoaxed (for lack of a better word) post. At first members are confused...then over time long-term members realize it for what it is - the start of another game. The post is fake but contains clues - and "part of the game, is finding the game.." then the members realize it's a game and then the game is afoot!!.

What of new members, or non-members reading that fake post? I believe the only point Shawnna is making here is that from the first days of Simon creating this clever fan site for EA all the way to today - ATS has had fun with these kinds of clever games. But ATS is ALSO a website that promotes honest and sincere research.

The alternative perspective here is a question about the ethics of spoofing posts, creating artificial stories, or blurring the line between real and fictional stories (for the purposes of a game) - in combination with efforts to search for the "truth" regarding real matters in ufology, paranormal, etc....

My personal opinion? I don't know. I haven't thought about it a whole lot. I think Shawnna brings it up as a question and has made her opinion on it very clear. I believe Zep has made it quite clear he sees the games and how they are started and played as very clever. I see a little of both I guess - I do think it's clever, but I'm not sure if those tactics belong on a site that might be trying to put forth an element of "newsworthiness" and honesty? What if CNN began doing such "games" on CNN.com. Leaving it to readers to find the fake story and then the "game is afoot". Wouldn't all stories come into question? Then again - maybe ATS isn't really a "news" site...it's a discussion forum, where such fun activities are expected to be found.

Again...it's a question of opinion. But Shawnna's opinion on this matter isn't irrelevant. She believes strongly in respecting truth in all matters - and she sees this as an affront to that.

I may not completely agree, but I can respect that.

-Ry
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