Access Denied (was ATS = Altruism + Trust + Sincerity?)

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Access Denied (was ATS = Altruism + Trust + Sincerity?)

Postby Access Denied » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:17 am

(I originally prepared this post in response to an off topic issue raised in another thread which is now locked)

Shawnna wrote:What I am trying to do is clearly illustrate that ATS may be many, many things, but it is my opinion - not the owner of RU - that it is NOT "Altruism + Trust + Sincerity".

I agree and I have evidence that I believe calls into question the integrity of the management of ATS based on some of the statements made [in the other thread] and on ATS that contradict what they told me “behind the scenes” in various (preserved) email exchanges.

Shawnna wrote:Accidents happen. When they result in the disappearance of a 24 page multi-ATS-member thread titled "Roswell Proof: Where is it"? being deleted, every effort should be made to restore it.

Especially when that thread contained new (unfavorable) evidence regarding the case... but that's not even the best part of my sorry saga. Of perhaps even more concern is the refusal of exclusive evidence I obtained from NASA that refutes John Lear's claim that his ATS sponsored (by Springer) moon pic was somehow special and "untouched".

Simon wrote:Of course ATS is a destination for serious discussion, evidence of that can be seen in that we have collaborated with NASA as one example on clarifying confusion surrounding images of Mars.

Well in my opinion you certainly didn’t earn your gold star in this case…

In brief I offered ATS an exclusive on my copy of JL’s moon pic primarily due to bandwidth (the image is 24 MB in compressed JPEG form, 190 MB uncompressed) and privacy concerns (surely ATS of all places would understand that?) but also in response to a post by Springer that said JL sending him those pics was more than anybody else had done for him. Yeah I know, what was I thinking? Instead the evidence was ignored and (from my perspective) I was rewarded with all 450 of my posts and threads on ATS (along with everybody else's who participated in them) deleted and then to top it all off a week or so later I was accused of being a liar after I mentioned Springer wasn’t interested and banned permanently so of course I couldn't respond.

Simon, Mark, and Bill, let me ask you this if I may: Why would Simon have gone into the admin control panel to ban me (NOT what I was told originally) and accidentally hit the “dangerously close” delete button instead as claimed in recent posts on ATS (also preserved) when earlier that very same day he fixed my account for me which I had been “mysteriously” locked out of? If Simon intended to ban me (what for?), why wasn’t I even after the “accident” was discovered? Before you respond let me remind you I have an email from Mark afterwards that admits he was the one who locked me out in back in July (also claimed to be a “mystery” at the time) due to my “harsh” criticism of Lear’s and Lazar’s 115 claims but he didn't see any reason why I should have been locked out this time and said he didn’t know who did it either.

P.S. A technical question for Bill: Is ATS based on vBulletin yes or no?
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Re: Access Denied (was ATS = Altruism + Trust + Sincerity?)

Postby ryguy » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:07 pm

Access Denied wrote:I agree and I have evidence that I believe calls into question the integrity of the management of ATS based on some of the statements made [in the other thread] and on ATS that contradict what they told me “behind the scenes” in various (preserved) email exchanges.


Thanks for joining and for posting. One of our major rules here in this forum is that arguments from other forums can not be dragged into here. However since the particular research at hand that was conducted by Shawnna (and apparently you, as well) isn't so much an argument as a study of an event....my view is that this should be allowed to proceed on a provisional basis.

Before this thread explodes into another series of insults and attacks, I'd like to ask that you please provide the evidence that calls into question the integrity of ATS management. I'm not making my personal opinion up either way here - I'd like to keep an open mind...but if evidence does exist it needs to be presented promptly - because as you know, we've seen this happen toward ATS multiple times by many members. People who are banned tend to go off on a mission against ATS and in an effort to discredit ATS management. Some non-members do the same....some examples are Bren of OM or Laura Knight-Jadczyk.

However we pride ourselves here on the value of evidence and keeping an open mind. What we're being asked to do here is keep an open mind about the integrity of people we've come to know and trust - however, that's what keeping an open mind is all about. The other side is the value of the evidence - so I ask, if you do have something solid and important, please present it here where it will be properly analyzed.

Of perhaps even more concern is the refusal of exclusive evidence I obtained from NASA that refutes John Lear's claim that his ATS sponsored (by Springer) moon pic was somehow special and "untouched".


I'd be interested in hearing more about that evidence as well.

In brief I offered ATS an exclusive on my copy of JL’s moon pic primarily due to bandwidth (the image is 24 MB in compressed JPEG form, 190 MB uncompressed) and privacy concerns (surely ATS of all places would understand that?) but also in response to a post by Springer that said JL sending him those pics was more than anybody else had done for him.


A 24 MB image? Man that's pretty big for an image... Are you saying this image somehow shed unfavorable light on Lear's claims?

....and then to top it all off a week or so later I was accused of being a liar after I mentioned Springer wasn’t interested and banned permanently so of course I couldn't respond.


Again - in my opinion you should be allowed to present your case, however all I ask is that you present evidence as soon as possible. This can't develop into a run around in circles like the other thread - and we can't allow RU to become a place to air grievances about being banned at ATS. I'm sure you understand.

Cheers,
-Ry
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Postby Shawnna » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:34 pm

AD asked me what to do as he had spent a lot of time preparing his post only to find the thread locked.

I told him it was OK to start this new thread in Chit Chat.

:?


Welcome AD - and don't let Ry scare you off...... believe it or not, he's the most congenial of the four of us!

:D

It was a pretty tough day yesterday for us all. And because we aren't ATS, we do get pretty involved with all of the members when there's high anxiety in the winds around here. And my pit bull, stubborn density made for some high anxiety indeed!

Let me know if you'd like me to post the timeline I created as part of your evidence, or if there's anything I can do to assist.

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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:09 pm

shawnaa says:

Let me know if you'd like me to post the timeline I created as part of your evidence, or if there's anything I can do to assist.


So her attack on ATS continues... Excellent.

Thankfully, locking the thread had no effect. This food-fight needs to continue until the last jello cup is unceremoniously stuffed into the last bleep.

Oh and then there's this, of course:

It was a pretty tough day yesterday for us all. And because we aren't ATS, we do get pretty involved with all of the members when there's high anxiety in the winds around here. And my pit bull, stubborn density made for some high anxiety indeed!


It wasn't your stubborness- it was your amateurism. And there was no 'high anxiety,' just disappointment.

You saw fit to trash brother springer and the other 2 amigos- whom members here hold in high regard and initiated a board war between RU and ATS. Is there the promise of a good result from this? I think not.

cs
Last edited by cartoonsyndicate on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shawnna » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:20 pm

cartoonsyndicate wrote:shawnaa says:

Let me know if you'd like me to post the timeline I created as part of your evidence, or if there's anything I can do to assist.


So her attack on ATS continues... Excellent.

Thankfully, locking the thread had no effect. This food-fight needs to continue until the last jello cup is unceremoniously stuffed into the last bleep.

Oh and then there's this, of course:

It was a pretty tough day yesterday for us all. And because we aren't ATS, we do get pretty involved with all of the members when there's high anxiety in the winds around here. And my pit bull, stubborn density made for some high anxiety indeed!


It wasn't your stubborness- it was your amateurism. And there was no 'high anxiety,' just disappointment.



There is no need to continue your personal attack, Toon. Your opinion has been expressed and you've been warned.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:27 pm

Warned about expressing my opinion?????? Par for the course for you.

cs

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Postby Shawnna » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:33 pm

I have not warned you; Zep Tepi has warned you twice yesterday, as I understand it.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:38 pm

Shawnna wrote:I have not warned you; Zep Tepi has warned you twice yesterday, as I understand it.


Zep respects the 1st amendment. He will not ban me for expressing my opinion. He never has. All of my bannings have been done by you.

cs
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Postby Shawnna » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:42 pm

My advise would be to focus on the issue Access Denied has brought up, and off your distain for me.

Doing this will assure Zep does not ban you.

Continuing to attack me personally WILL add to your two warnings issued by Zep yesterday.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:00 pm

"The only thing we found that makes the emptiness bearable is................... each other."
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Postby ryguy » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:02 pm

One liners again Toon?

That's spelled T...R....O....L....L...

You're just trying to incite an angry reaction from Shawnna. Cut it out.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:20 pm

ryan, ya know- what i'd really like to see is her actually engaged in a dialogue with brother springer- a member whom i truly admire. can you arrange that?

i think the entire membership is waiting for that.

cs
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Postby ryguy » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:25 pm

Here's the point Toon - Shawnna didn't start this thread. A new member who claims to have new evidence to present did. This isn't about Shawnna at this point. If there's some kind of strong evidence there, I'd like to see it. Why would we deny anyone the right to post it - 1st amendment right?

I know you enjoy all the drama and mud-slinging - but Springer and Shawnna had enough of an exchange yesterday. All I want to see is whether this new member has any evidence or not. If not - this thread will be locked too and this issue will be closed.

-Ry
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:39 pm

ryguy wrote:Here's the point Toon - Shawnna didn't start this thread. A new member who claims to have new evidence to present did. This isn't about Shawnna at this point. If there's some kind of strong evidence there, I'd like to see it. Why would we deny anyone the right to post it - 1st amendment right?

I know you enjoy all the drama and mud-slinging - but Springer and Shawnna had enough of an exchange yesterday. All I want to see is whether this new member has any evidence or not. If not - this thread will be locked too and this issue will be closed.

-Ry


let it continue. my only point was that this new guy is an enemy of brother springer and so the brother ought to be allowed to have his say as well. as of now, no-one has invited him to defend himself here. he is an important member of RU and as such he ought to be given the courtesy to respond. no? if i'm wrong- so be it. 1st amendment, yes.
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Postby ryguy » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:43 pm

cartoonsyndicate wrote:he is an important member of RU and as such he ought to be given the courtesy to respond. no? if i'm wrong- so be it. 1st amendment, yes.


Springer is as free to post here today as he ever was, and certainly remains a valued member. He isn't banned or locked out of this thread in any way and is always free to respond.

-Ry
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