NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

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NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby JayKew » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:09 am

Cant see this posted anywhere or even if I have put this in the right forum but NASA are holding a press conference tomorrow to highlight findings they have discovered with regards to "life" from elsewhere.

Could be an interesting afternoon .

Ooops left the link out .... silly me .... here it is

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/no ... ology.html
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby m0r1arty » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:34 am

Thanks JawKew,

Word on the net is that it's to do with an arsenic lake in California which shows a 'different type' of life than that normally found on Earth.

Here's one of many news articles guessing the content prior to its release.

I read somewhere, fairly recently too, that there is an underground/underwater lake of sulphuric acid near Italy which also holds life.

I think the concept of the talk is to say that if life conforms to theMrs Gren concept then it may be more hardy and work in ways that defy accepted CHON theory.

But still interesting and I can't wait to hear what they say about it - no small thing announcing this.

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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby JayKew » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:49 am

Thanks for the info m0r.

Ive long held the belief that expecting life elsewhere to have an identical or near identical DNA type fingerprint as ourselves is delusional.

That of course screws up an easy route to understanding.

I recall two sci fi short stories from my youth.

The first was about an astronaut landing on a planet and discovering a silicone based life form..... it was a marvelous tale ...... sadly the writer died at an early age. Asimov reckoned he would have outstripped himself and Clarke as the top sci fi writer of all time..... Just wished I could recall his name so I could buy his collection of short stories.

The other tale concerned a mighty cosmic warship with a "Borg" type attitude and with hundreds of thousands of "warriors" heading to earth to colonise us. Sadly for them, as soon as it landed it was accidently crushed underfoot by a farmer in a field.

You know thats probably happened hundreds of times lol.

Jay
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby m0r1arty » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:16 am

I remember an episode of Star Trek which had a silicone based lifeform in it too - Spock eventually mind-melded with it.

Cool beans.

On to the talk though - it could be that Dwayne Schyder of the famous ice meteorite fragments found on his sidewalk could have broached new thoughts within the realm of science.

:)

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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby Access Denied » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:52 am

JayKew wrote:Cant see this posted anywhere or even if I have put this in the right forum

Exopolitics... seriously? :)

m0r1arty wrote:Word on the net is that it's to do with an arsenic lake in California which shows a 'different type' of life than that normally found on Earth.

Psst... :wink:

Searching for Alien Life, on Earth
http://www.astrobio.net/index.php?optio ... il&id=3259

If you spend an afternoon walking along the muddy shore of Mono Lake, with the eastern flank of the Sierra Nevada mountains looming majestically in the background, you’ll no doubt discover, as others have before, that it is a place of bizarre natural beauty.

But if you spend your afternoon walking the lakeshore with geomicrobiologist Felisa Wolfe-Simon, you’ll also discover that the mud you’re walking on may hold an important secret. It may be home to life whose biological makeup is fundamentally different than that of any known life on Earth, life so different from standard terrestrial biology it can literally be considered alien.

Indeed, if the more speculative aspect of Wolfe-Simon’s research bears fruit, rather than honors going to Mars or Europa, Mono Lake may go down in history as the first place in our solar system where alien life was discovered. And even if that part of her work doesn’t pan out, Wolfe-Simon may still make a significant contribution to our understanding of life’s origins.

[...]

Just to be clear: finding an organism that didn’t need phosphorus, that used arsenic instead, would be one of the most significant scientific discoveries of all time. It would mean that Mono Lake was home to a form of life biologically distinct from all other known life on Earth. It would strongly suggest that life got started on our planet not once, but at least twice, that the origin of life on Earth was not a freak accident requiring highly specialized circumstances, but a relatively commonplace event. And that in turn would strengthen the argument that life is likely to be present on other worlds as well. Not too shabby a result for an afternoon stroll by a mountain lake.

The question is did two forms of life based on different chemistries independently evolve on (or arrive on) Earth or does this represent a previously undiscovered evolutionary branch?

The implications are enormous…

Tom
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby Access Denied » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:17 am

m0r1arty wrote:I remember an episode of Star Trek which had a silicone based lifeform in it too - Spock eventually mind-melded with it.

Life as we don't know it ... on Earth?
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... t-on-earth

The biggest OMG moment came when Mary Voytek, head of NASA's Astrobiology Program, referred to a classic "Star Trek" episode in which the Enterprise crew confronted a seemingly menacing creature called a Horta. "This is, in our mind, the equivalent of finding that Horta, which was silicon-based life, substituting carbon -- which is what we think all life forms are made of -- with silicon. Now we're talking about an organism that we think ... is replacing phosphorus with arsenic," she said. "This is a huge deal."

:shock:

Anyway, seems this raises more questions than it answers... good news for scientists, bad news for those who want all the answers handed to them on a silver platter.

[or disk as the case may be]
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby m0r1arty » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:02 am

And they used to laugh at me for reading and watching Science Fiction!!

How's laughing now?!

Anyways - it is a pretty cool discovery, now whether that pool came to form life all of it's own accord or there was some mixing at some point through tectonic movement or diverted rivers remains to be stated. It may have evolved from a common ancestor into what it is now due to it's environment - the same way marsupials evolved into their own macrocosm.

I'd love to have been a fly-on-the-wall in the believers camp. Flags and fanfare all shined up, balloons ready to drop, texts to loved ones already typed out on mobile phones...and then, the usual.

When will they ever thank us for telling them how it is??

Happy Friday!

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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby chrLz » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:08 am

" It would strongly suggest that life got started on our planet not once, but at least twice, that the origin of life on Earth was not a freak accident requiring highly specialized circumstances"

:shock:

That's the bit that needs highlighting imo.. If this shows that we have two data points rather than one, it really is big news. But I have a doubt..
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby m0r1arty » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:44 am

If you can spare 10 mins here is a decent breakdown from a scientific peer of why the press conference was a little too quick and lacked some substantial data to back the idea of arsenic 'back-boned' DNA up.

It also shows you how they 'found' these 'alien' lifeforms.



So it does seem as if these lifeforms where not just naturally occurring in this lake and could very well have evolved from the same origin of all Earth life (once they've figured out what they are trying tosay that is).

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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby Access Denied » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:24 am

Brutal. See also…

"This Paper Should Not Have Been Published"
http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/

Iron Lisa is none too happy...

Any discourse will have to be peer-reviewed in the same manner as our paper was, and go through a vetting process so that all discussion is properly moderated," wrote Felisa Wolfe-Simon of the NASA Astrobiology Institute. "The items you are presenting do not represent the proper way to engage in a scientific discourse and we will not respond in this manner.

In her defense, I think the press may be largely to blame for most of the hype. Her paper and the press release would not haven’t gotten so much attention if hadn’t been about Astrobiology and the implications for discovering ET life. She seems fairly young and excited about her work so I’m not entirely shocked some mistakes may have been made. For better or worse, clearly expectations were high all around.

She posted this on her website today…

Wolfe-Simon et al Comment: 08 December 2010
http://www.ironlisa.com/gfaj/

My research team and I are aware that our peer-reviewed Science article has generated some technical questions and challenges from within the scientific community. Questions raised so far have been consistent with the range of issues outlined by journalist Elizabeth Pennisi in her Science news article, which was published along with our research. For instance, other scientists have asked whether the bacteria had truly incorporated arsenic into their DNA, and whether the microbes had completely stopped consuming phosphorus. Our manuscript was thoroughly reviewed and accepted for publication by Science; we presented our data and results and drew our conclusions based on what we showed. But we welcome lively debate since we recognize that scholarly discourse moves science forward. We've been concerned that some conclusions have been drawn based on claims not made in our paper. In response, it's our understanding that Science is in the process of making our article freely available to the public for the next two weeks to ensure that all researchers have full access to the findings. We invite others to read the paper and submit any responses to Science for review so that we can officially respond. Meanwhile, we are preparing a list of "frequently asked questions" to help promote general understanding of our work.

On a somewhat lighter note, don’t miss the mouseover text…

Arsenic-Based Life
http://xkcd.com/829/
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby m0r1arty » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:36 am

Looks to me Science is taking the route of traffic hits over quality of posting.

There are sheer gaping holes in basic scientific credulity in that paper, as well as her personal presentation as pointed out by Thunderf00t in the above YouTube video, and there shouldn't ever need to be a FAQs to go along with a scientific paper.

I think, if anything, that this has damaged Science and NASA to a large degree and blaming the media who were invited via press release is just a slap in the chops from self garnered attention whoring.

Who needs crazies claiming NASA knows the truth discrediting ET life when the guys at the top table are doing a fine enough job of it themselves*.

-m0r

*Shaddup to those who post misdirection, clever hoax by NASA, NWO just playing with us garbage.
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby Access Denied » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:29 am

"We've been concerned that some conclusions have been drawn based on claims not made in our paper."

What are Thunderf00t's qualifications? The reason I ask is because is because you said he was a “scientific peer” and I believe his criticism of the conclusion he highlighted in the paper is unwarranted and premature. This paper is the what, the how or why comes next...
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby m0r1arty » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:23 am

Paper's have conclusions. That's the point of them.

In your aims, the beginning, you state what you are searching for and why. In your conclusions, the end, you state whether you were successful or not, what could have been done to have made this search better and any unexpected side effects the occurred.

The middle is the scientific method of lab work and results.

Thunderf00t has never made his name and/or qualifications public - which I like, because he details his videos in such a way as to show the workings of theories to others rather than claim authority by academic rank. I claim his qualifications are just that. And from that this makes him a peer not only to those of the scientific community - but also to those who are not members of that community.

I do however, from personal observations, think he is a researcher for a Washington state university.

I'm sure time will have him unmasked, until then I think some of his specific comments on individual topics are interesting, worthy of sharing and open to scrutiny.

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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby Access Denied » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:09 am

I see...
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Re: NASA Press Conference Thursday 2nd December 2010

Postby m0r1arty » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:32 am

Access Denied wrote:I see...


I, however, don't.

Could you elaborate upon what it is you see please?

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