Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Science and Technology News, Advanced Military Projects and Space Exploration

Moderators: ryguy, chrLz, Zep Tepi

Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby Buckwild » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:24 pm

Hi folks,

NASA Scientist Claims Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite
By Garrett Tenney : http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/ ... meteorite/


Image
Riccardo Guerrero / Richard B. Hoover / Journal of Cosmology
A photograph taken through a scanning electron microscope of a CI1 meteorite (right) is similar in size and overall structure to the giant bacterium Titanospirillum velox (left), an organism found here on planet Earth, a NASA scientist said.



Journal of Cosmology, 2011, Vol 13,
JournalofCosmology.com March, 2011
Fossils of Cyanobacteria in CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorites
Richard B. Hoover, Ph.D. NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center

Synopsis
Dr. Hoover has discovered evidence of microfossils similar to Cyanobacteria, in freshly fractured slices of the interior surfaces of the Alais, Ivuna, and Orgueil CI1 carbonaceous meteorites. Based on Field Emission Scanning Electron Microscopy (FESEM) and other measures, Dr. Hoover has concluded they are indigenous to these meteors and are similar to trichomic cyanobacteria and other trichomic prokaryotes such as filamentous sulfur bacteria. He concludes these fossilized bacteria are not Earthly contaminants but are the fossilized remains of living organisms which lived in the parent bodies of these meteors, e.g. comets, moons, and other astral bodies. The implications are that life is everywhere, and that life on Earth may have come from other planets.

Members of the Scientific community were invited to analyze the results and to write critical commentaries or to speculate about the implications. These commentaries will be published on March 7 through March 10, 2011.

Source : http://journalofcosmology.com/Life100.html




Cheers,
Buck
User avatar
Buckwild
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 am


Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby Buckwild » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:24 pm

Just to see their take on BA's Blog : http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badas ... meteorite/


Cheers,
Buck
User avatar
Buckwild
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby Buckwild » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:58 pm

User avatar
Buckwild
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby chrLz » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:43 am

Why was this published by the "Journal of Cosmology" I wonder..?
(actually, I don't wonder why at all..)..

As your links show, that's the same JoC that said in a press release, explaining why they are shutting down soon (emphasis mine):
Naturally, JOC's success posed a direct threat to traditional subscription based science periodicals, such as "science" magazine; just as online news killed many newspapers. Not surprisingly, JOC was targeted by science magazine and others who engaged in illegal, criminal, anti-competitive acts to prevent JOC from distributing news about its online editions and books.

followed by:

As we all know, the leadership at NASA is a disaster. Just last month NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel concluded that NASA is "adrift" and dysfunctional. Its leadership is under attack by Congress and is good only at leading a retreat and killing programs. They are running scared with their heads down, fearful of upcoming Congressional hearings, fearful of more criticism, fearful of losing their jobs. Fear. Fear. Fear.

..and..

Life on Earth, Came From Other Planets ---and this is something the Bible-thumpers, the "leadership" at NASA, and the status quo, do not want the public to know.

Umm, this is a unbiased, respected scientific journal?

No. No. No. Sorry, but those are the rantings of unprofessional wankers. Yup, the Men In Black got to them - they were onto the truth, and it couldn't continue... :roll:

Anyway, in regard to the claim, my response is shallow and flippant.. Just because it looks rather like some earthly life-created structure, that's good enough? Save me.

OK, he also gives some extraordinarily complex and extraordinarily lengthy and rambling discussions (often without clear justification) about chemical clues he supposedly found, and I'll leave it to the *real* 'astrobiologists' to debate all that. But his analysis reminds me very much of Bruce Maccabee (that's an injoke)... He uses the word 'astonishing' a lot. Very easily astonished, is Mr/Dr Hoover, imo. :D

It's also most interesting to note NASA'a complete silence. I suspect they are thinking hard about the relationship..

BTW, I too would like to know where, when and in what he got his doctorate. In various articles and here:
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/people.shtml
NASA pointedly refers to him as Mr Hoover when listing him against others with doctorates...
"To wear the mantle of Galileo, it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right." - Robert L. Park (..almost)
User avatar
chrLz
Moderator
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:47 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby Buckwild » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:20 am

Hi ChrLz,

Life on Earth, Came From Other Planets ---and this is something the Bible-thumpers, the "leadership" at NASA, and the status quo, do not want the public to know.

Umm, this is a unbiased, respected scientific journal?


That's bull', you are right, NASA would be more than happy if they found AL (and even declared Panspermia to be confirmed) here on Earth or anywhere else for that matter !

Take a look at their budget, it is not big at all but hey, we cannot say that they do not care about astrobiology ;
http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/articles/t ... dquarters/

Use an automatic translator and read what Tawahi-Kiwi (Geologist) said about this publication :
http://forums.futura-sciences.com/plane ... stres.html

Pareidolia, uncertain when not biased analysis... :|

Cheers,
Buck
User avatar
Buckwild
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby chrLz » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:38 am

That's a page worth translating - some interesting pics..

And yes, as I alluded above, I too was struck by the irrelevant directions he went in that 'paper', inc the hair of the mammoth.. :? Like i said - it's the maccabee disease.. :D

I'm sure I have seen an electron micrograh or similar that showed some earthly NON-life-driven structures at a very similar scale that were extremely comparable - much closer than the examples given. I do realise that unless I can come up with it, that it is an unsupported claim... I may be back later, but I'm sorta hoping someone else can remember the image/s...
"To wear the mantle of Galileo, it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right." - Robert L. Park (..almost)
User avatar
chrLz
Moderator
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:47 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby chrLz » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:11 am

BTW, there's a nice, concise, easy to read appraisal/rebuttal here:
http://rrresearch.blogspot.com/2011/03/is-this-claim-of-bacteria-in-meteorite.html
"To wear the mantle of Galileo, it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right." - Robert L. Park (..almost)
User avatar
chrLz
Moderator
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:47 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby Buckwild » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:27 pm

The funny thing is :

The hoax

In 1965, a fragment of the Orgueil meteorite, kept in a sealed glass jar in Montauban since its discovery, was found to have a seed capsule embedded in it, whilst the original glassy layer on the outside remained apparently undisturbed. Despite great initial excitement, the seed capsule was shown to be that of a European rush, glued into the fragment and camouflaged using coal dust. The outer "fusion layer" was in fact glue. Whilst the perpetrator is unknown, it is thought that the hoax was aimed at influencing 19th century debate on spontaneous generation by demonstrating the transformation of inorganic to biological matter.


Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgueil_(meteorite)

More details here :

ABSTRACT

One stone of the Orgueil meteorite shower contains an assortment of biogenic materials: coal fragments, seed capsules of the reed Juncus conglomeratus, other plant fragments, and an optically active, water-soluble protein material resembling collagen-derived glues. This sample seems to have been accidentally or deliberately contaminated shortly after the fall of the meteorite in 1864.

Source : http://www.sciencemag.org/content/146/3 ... 7.abstract



Thx Bob Rekin for the info.

Cheers,
Buck
User avatar
Buckwild
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby Buckwild » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:18 pm

Check this out :

In 2004, the possibility of fossilized biological remains in Orgueil was raised again by Richard Hoover of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC). At the "Instruments, Methods, and Missions for Astrobiology VIII" (Conference 5555) at SPIE's International Symposium on Optical Science and Technology held in Denver, Colorado, August 2-3, 2004, Hoover showed images from a freshly fractured specimen of Orgueil taken in July 2004 using the Environmental- and Field Emission Scanning Electron Microscopy at MSFC in Huntsville, Alabama. These pictures appeared to show forms in the meteorite that closely resemble mats of known terrestrial fossilized cyanobacteria such as Phormidium tenuissimum. Interestingly, on Earth, such cyanobacteria form their mats only underwater on surfaces exposed to sunlight. However, the specimen of Orgueil studied by Hoover has not been submerged since its arrival on Earth (it would have dissolved), nor was its interior open and exposed to sunlight on Earth before now. Furthermore, the putative fossils would not represent isolated single cells, but whole ecologies. The implication is that they must have grown on the meteorite's parent body before it fell. However, as in the case of other claims regarding extraterrestrial fossils aboard meteorites, this new piece of evidence is unlikely to be readily accepted by the scientific establishment until it can be rigorously shown that (a) the remains admit no non-biological interpretation, and (b) the possibility of terrestrial contamination can be absolutely ruled out.


Source : http://www.daviddarling.info/encycloped ... gueil.html

Might be the third time then ? :lol:

Cheers,
Buck
User avatar
Buckwild
On A Quest for Reality
On A Quest for Reality
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 am

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby ryguy » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:14 pm

Kudos to Dr. Marais for being cautious - from: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/ ... meteorite/

But Dr. David Marais, an astrobiologist with NASA’s AMES Research Center, says he’s very cautious about jumping onto the bandwagon.

These kinds of claims have been made before, he noted -- and found to be false.

“It’s an extraordinary claim, and thus I’ll need extraordinary evidence,” Marais said.


However, I do have respect for anyone willing to open up their findings to the scientific community for peer review:

Knowing that the study will be controversial, the journal invited members of the scientific community to analyze the results and to write critical commentaries ahead of time. Though none are online yet, those comments will be posted alongside the article, said Dr. Rudy Schild, a scientist with the Harvard-Smithsonian's Center for Astrophysics and the editor-in-chief of the Journal of Cosmology.

"Given the controversial nature of his discovery, we have invited 100 experts and have issued a general invitation to over 5,000 scientists from the scientific community to review the paper and to offer their critical analysis," Schild wrote in an editor's note along with the article. "No other paper in the history of science has undergone such a thorough vetting, and never before in the history of science has the scientific community been given the opportunity to critically analyze an important research paper before it is published, he wrote."


To be honest, it is how I personally suspect "alien life" will be discovered if it ever is - under an electron microscope, not over the skies of Washington. :-)

-Ryan
---
"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place." - Paul Kurtz

The RU Blog
Top Secret Writers
User avatar
ryguy
1 of the RU3
 
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:49 am
Location: Another Dimension

Re: Evidence of Alien Life on Meteorite ?

Postby chrLz » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:58 pm

ryguy wrote:However, I do have respect for anyone willing to open up their findings to the scientific community for peer review

Yes, but is that what they are really doing? That 'Journal' does not have a good reputation in this regard - their idea of 'peer review' is rather different from more respected science journals. And there is a reason those other journals are more respected..

Given the controversial nature of his discovery

It is somewhat misleading to call this a 'discovery'. There are some unusual structures in a sample, and he is making a huge leap to some pretty explicit claims.

we have invited 100 experts and have issued a general invitation to over 5,000 scientists from the scientific community to review the paper and to offer their critical analysis,

Who was specifically invited, and how? What was the nature of the additional 'general invitation'? Why was this process necessary? Has this paper/claim been subjected to peer review before?

I understand that the answer to this last question is.. Yes. That previous attempt to gain peer review was unsuccessful - it would be worthwhile to look at why (haven't had time to do so, yet)..

No other paper in the history of science has undergone such a thorough vetting, and never before in the history of science has the scientific community been given the opportunity to critically analyze an important research paper before it is published


I'm rather stunned by this claim - on what basis does he make those extraordinary statements?? No other paper has received such 'thorough vetting'? Give me a break. I get the strong impression that this paper has been largely shunned and ignored by the scientific community for very good reason - it is flaky science, tries to tie in unrelated subjects, contains unsupportable conclusions.. all while ignoring important issues, potential errors and provisos.

To be honest, it is how I personally suspect "alien life" will be discovered if it ever is - under an electron microscope, not over the skies of Washington. :-)


That, I agree with. But I'm not seeing good enough evidence in that paper.
"To wear the mantle of Galileo, it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right." - Robert L. Park (..almost)
User avatar
chrLz
Moderator
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:47 am


Google

Return to Science & Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests