Saving the world?

[pork]

Wow-Dan . That was actually a kinda good and coherent post.
I will try to answer without being a hypocrite...I frequent these sites as entertainment, looking for answers my inquisitive mind, and looking for answers to perceptions I have had. Experiences of a corrupted human brain organ.
First, I have seen visual proof plus us things--but absolutely zero of gods. If anything--our existence, our nature and our human doings highlight the lack of gods. The unspeakable crimes; the things parents to to children, man does to man, etc--has no redeeming value, no miraculous silver lining, no goodness what so ever. Monkeys killing monkeys over a spot of land with a club. Devious, evil animals. Descendants of simple organisms we are.

As to ghosts...I think I have seen some, believe I have heard them, and actually have a photograph of what I feel is one on/around me in a family cemetery. As ambiguous as they were...my human mind is beyond faulty and prey to emotion and memory. I see what I want to see...not what is there. However--I believe they were real. Energy of the past person, perpetual psychic energy or some bs. Either way--more anecdotal and empirical data to support a ghost than a god. If I hadn't heard them myself--it would be crazy. In fact it might JUST BE crazy, lodged deep in my subconscious that my conscious mind won't accept. But I feel I am sane--a tad 'different', but I am not diagnosed as clinically neurotic, psychotic, schitz or otherwise. I am up in the air on souls. Energy yes--we are electro-chemical creatures. Not magic...shocking.

I remember seeing a being--(but I will not discuss that here--I have only told one or two people ever--I can't remember if I told Mur or not)--but saw a craft/orb with two pals. If they were not there, I wouldn't believe me. The only reason it is validated was was they saw the exact thing. The question is whether it was a UAV or an alien craft. Being in a suburban area of Dallas Texas--I doubt the military had a bus sized orb doing recon on the neighborhood kids. Or Aliens for that matter. SO wtf? Hence my interest. I really don't care about hearsay any more--no matter the source--as we are ALL liars, corrupt, gullible sinners. That is how we survive as a species...winner takes all, no matter how.

Honestly I feel most are nutters. Fore is certainly looney--and I would not be surprised if he had a tumor consuming his brain. Ultradimensional beings are smart to not stick around. Cholton is a motard-the Drake equation and Hawking say he is wrong. There is no comparison of intellect there--hence Chodeton is moot.

I believe in relationships and dialectic. Interaction and handshakes. Nuts and bolts. Memories change, perceptions lie, organs fail. No wings, no miracles. The fallacy of our under-utilized brain organ.

[dan]

Pork,

Thank you for your honesty, and for not simply attacking me.

.

[dan]

Chorlton,

You assume wrong. We have never been visited by ET's as there are simply, none out there.
Therefore the rest of your argument falls.

So, is it UT's?

Or did you just wander into RU by mistake?

.

[dan]

Andy,

Not to be a dick, but I'm still waiting for your responses to my queries in the other thread.

I have looked over you earlier posts, and I see mainly attacks on others at OM.

I don't feel compelled to respond to those attacks.

I made a decision not to follow-up on an opportunity to blow the whistle on Source 'A', early on.

I don't regret that decision, so, by that much, I am complicit in what followed.

OM and RU have two very different philosophies. I think there is a place for both, and you don't.

I'm glad that you did finally blow the whistle. It was overdue.

Can we still be friends?

.

[AussieMike]

Andy,

Not to be a dick, but I'm still waiting for your responses to my queries in the other thread.

I have looked over you earlier posts, and I see mainly attacks on others at OM.

I don't feel compelled to respond to those attacks.

I made a decision not to follow-up on an opportunity to blow the whistle on Source 'A', early on.

I don't regret that decision, so, by that much, I am complicit in what followed.

OM and RU have two very different philosophies. I think there is a place for both, and you don't.

I'm glad that you did finally blow the whistle. It was overdue.

Can we still be friends?

.

You are indeed complicit in what followed, you have two threads at OMF that suggest Theilmann is a LCMDR.....

Thats a lie, he was not ever in the service, you are therefore Deliberately giving ppl the impression he was.
You are sponsoring a lie........

[murnut]

Can we still be friends?

.

Of course

[murnut]

You are indeed complicit in what followed, you have two threads at OMF that suggest Theilmann is a LCMDR.....

Thats a lie, he was not ever in the service, you are therefore Deliberately giving ppl the impression he was.
You are sponsoring a lie........

But he has seen the light somewhat now...I'm willing to let bygones be bygones.

Let's let Dan be somewhat free to speak his mind.

[oboe]

Ry,

My definition of 'saving the world'...........?

Ok, we're gonna be, more-or-less, Raptured, over the next couple of centuries, while the Earth is being Re-enchanted, so that we will end up with a New Earth & a New Heaven.

This will be carried out in accord with God's eternal plan of Salvation/Redemption, and will be assisted by various 'species' of Ultra-terrestrial beings, with many of which we are already familiar.

(cont.)

Something smells bad in here. Did a large bull just take a dump?

[oboe]

These ET's, evidently, have mind-boggling powers, all the result of technological progress and biological evolution.

Who says ETs have mind-boggling powers and who says those powers are a result of technology or evolution? The monks of India or Tibet who can do ultra-human things after years of meditative practice, the Lakota medicine men who facilitate Yuwipi ceremonies, or just the awesome experiences one can have during out-of-body experiences may seem "mind-boggling" to most people, but they are all very achievable and humanistic with practice. Do you equate beings who may have more advanced technology than humans with being "Gods"? Do you equate beings who may have strong telepathic communication with being "Gods"? I don't. If anything, the more technology advances, the less we humans are encouraged to develop what most people call "supernatural" abilities.

But, in order to maintain this belief, most ufologists, if not yourselves, have constructed elaborate explanations for the lack of either physical evidence and/or public Contact.

So what is your not-so-elaborate explanation?

So, I could turn this question around, why do you, by frequenting ufo forums, demonstrate, at least, an active agnosticism concerning ET's, but, at the same time, you are quite unwilling to afford God with a similar benefit of the doubt?

There is a big difference between ETs and God or The Source or The Energy That Moves Through All Things.

I wait for your responses. In the meantime, I think you will be surprised to learn of the many other logical connections between the ET problem and the God problem.

What other "logical" connections do you think there are between ET and God, Dan? Please don't use the old, tired excuse of the BPWH or the Danianity crap.

[dan]

Ry,

I was attempting to reason with someone who believed in ET's. I don't, but I'm not sure if you do or not, so then I get caught in the cross-fire.

I am attempting to point out that belief in ET's does not make much sense, from a larger perspective.

Would you like to discuss that issue with me, or do you prefer to keep your own beliefs hidden, while attacking mine?

Do you wish to pursue a constructive dialog, or not? I don't understand what you want or expect from me. Or what exactly you don't want.

I am suggesting that there may be a larger Truth, and that we may not be able understand it in a piecemeal fashion. I subscribe to the Coherence Theory of Truth. Most folks subscribe to the Correspondence Theory of Truth.

In short, I am claiming to be a Visionary, with a New Vision. You claim that I have nothing new to present. Well, I would like to see the book wherein, the Best Possible World Hypothesis has already been presented. I have done my share of googling, but maybe I missed it.

I say that every fact is subject to interpretation, and that this process of interpretation depends on the fundamental assumptions that one is making about the nature of Reality....... a Reality that you claim has yet to be Uncovered! One of us seems to be putting the cart before the horse.

How can we decide what the facts are, if we don't even know where those facts are coming from?

In normal life we can agree on normal rules of evidence.

All I am saying is that ufo phenomena may force us to rethink what is the nature of reality.

Understanding these phenomena may require a paradigm shift or even a paradigm inversion, of a radical sort.

You talk about a Reality to be Uncovered. Okay, maybe we should wonder why was that Reality covered, in the first place.

If we don't know why the Reality was covered or how it was covered, how can we expect to uncover it?
-------------------------

Yes, and then you raise the subject of Ron's job. But, at the same time, you disparage my truthfulness, because I don't agree with you that Ron is merely a scientist. You might be correct, Ry, but there is a possibility that the truth of the matter is not in plain sight. If you are dealing with a Tricksterish phenomenon, you might not want to put a mere scientist in charge of investigating it.

Did Ron forget to tell you that this Phenomenon is not amenable to scientific analysis? Maybe that is why he keeps tabs on visionaries, such as myself.

Should I ask Ron to call you to urge you to allow one of his little visionaries to pursue an alternative vision?

Are you going to allow me to pursue a Truth or Vision that may not entirely correspond with your present understanding of how the world works, or how it should work?

Yes, Ry, I am attempting to be a visionary, and even a prophet, if you will. I hope that you have not decided that there is no room for such an entity in your corner of the world?

.

[dan]

Oboe,

You, like Ry, did not catch the fact that I was temporarily taking on the beliefs of someone else, in order to demonstrate how those beliefs lead to conclusions that make very little sense.

Yes, there does seem to be a trend in ufology, away from the ETH, and toward the UTH. With the BPWH, I am merely explicating where that trend is very likely to lead us, in the not so very distant future.

What other "logical" connections do you think there are between ET and God, Dan? Please don't use the old, tired excuse of the BPWH or the Danianity crap.

If God does exist, then there must be a veil between God and us.

It stands to reason that the UT's serve as links between Creator and Creation. They are granted the ability to pierce that veil.

Many Christians believe that any entity that is not Evangelical, in their terms, must represent Satan. And so they simply prescribe holy water for abductees.

Is God allowing some of the UT's to terrorize abductees? It appears so. If there is a God, God has allowed much in the way of evil and suffering, throughout history. The extra suffering induced by UT's, does not rise very high on that scale.

Everyone agrees that the best possible world would contain some evil. The only question before us is how much is too much?

The answer to that question may depend upon what lies beyond this world, and how and when we are going to get there.

In other words, let's not rush to condemn God, before we even bother to try to understand what God is about.

I challenge anyone who disparages this Creation, to come up with a better plan, a plan which also, necessarily, includes some form of Salvation or Redemption. Good luck with that.

.

[pork]

Dan --
Creation and salvation have nothing to do with each other. By creation--I do not mean a deity created man, the anumules or this planet....we are beyond that so please don't try to take us back to the Dark Ages. The light and the way is within us; not in a temple or church, a savior or a verse. We are all stardust and arise from the chaos of adaptive synergy. The light and the way is a good moral compass, a decent conscience and truth of mouth. BPWH is all cute and good--but the fact is do what your Grandma told you and you'll be fine.

I reject your self labeling as a visionary and a prophet. Not only as a false idol, but as arrogant and stale. One doesn't have to pursue truth, but rather live it. UTH and ET are on the same level of insanity--but this is a crazy place. However I don't even see how you can claim 'they' are the gateway to god. Speak your mind....

But remember RT delivered the prayer before this meal. In a purchased uniform. With fake medals. Under false pretenses. With his wife at his side and looking you straight in the eye. The bread is made of ground SOM served by the Pickerings with an ashen crust. The wine is thickened with sangra del toro...and we are suppossed to say 'thank you'?

[AussieMike]

the BPWH is a ridiculous notion, to a Muslim the best possible world would be one where everyone converts to islam
To a christian it would be a world where everyone accepts Christ as saviour, to a jew it would be one where the temple of david is rebuilt.....
To a vegan, it would be a world where no one eats meat.....

We each of us everyday make for ourselves our own best possible world, the idea it could encompass some sort of universal application is patently absurd.

As my freind Saul Relative likes to say
One mans meat, is another mans poison........

The last man who tried to impose his BPWH on the planet, lost WW2.........

[oboe]

Dan, you're strange.

Salvation or redemption from what? From being human? If you don't like being human, you are free to leave the planet any time.

[Chorlton]

Chorlton,

You assume wrong. We have never been visited by ET's as there are simply, none out there.
Therefore the rest of your argument falls.

So, is it UT's?

Or did you just wander into RU by mistake?

.

I was invited here
Whats your excuse?