Saving the world?

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Re: Saving the world?

Postby murnut » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:04 pm

dan wrote:
murnut wrote:Actually you never said pretending I don't believe...you said something along the lines of that hey had "an officer" leaking "National Security" type items

Okay, so I didn't tape record the conversation.

That could have landed me in jail, yes?

So, Andy, you tell us.........

What do you think I said to the little lady in the Naval PR office??

.



Jedd is right in that we did think the guy was a LT CMDR in the Navy because Russo when interviewing the Pickering's...(at your request Dan) passed that on to us.
We had no reason to believe at that point the guy was not Navy...especially with a fresh endorsement from BMac about the base access issue. It seemed really strong at the time that the guy was Navy.

No one was suggesting he was a fake.

Actually...no one suggested he was a impostor until Salla's fairly recent after the name outing article where as the trial balloon of his records being expunged was floated.

Many lights went on after that. Thanks to Salla are in order...although I'm sure Salla was not looking for it to go the way it did.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby Chorlton » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:07 pm

dan wrote:Chorlton,

So, I gather that you profession is to carry and distribute night soil.
Well, I looks like you came to the right place, my dear.
.


Well as it seems you soil yourself at every click of your keyboard, looks like I arrived on time.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby ryguy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:10 pm

dan wrote:Ry,

I was attempting to reason with someone who believed in ET's. I don't, but I'm not sure if you do or not, so then I get caught in the cross-fire.


Fair enough.

I am attempting to point out that belief in ET's does not make much sense, from a larger perspective.

Would you like to discuss that issue with me, or do you prefer to keep your own beliefs hidden, while attacking mine?


I've never kept my beliefs hidden - in fact I blog about it all throughout the Internet. If you weren't so self-centered upon your own belief system as being the "Answer to life, the Universe and Everything" then maybe you'd know that.

Do you wish to pursue a constructive dialog, or not? I don't understand what you want or expect from me. Or what exactly you don't want.


I want a constructive dialog void of all confuscation and lies. As I read your writing, I enjoy your thoughts on spirituality, religion and life in general, until I see the occasional lie (which I know you know is a lie) thrown in. As our tagline says, we are passionate about the truth. I realize that you may use lies to trigger emotional feedback from others, but I believe just as passionately about that tagline as I do about any other religious beliefs. Lies have no place in a discussion where people are looking for answers. Lies are self-serving and by their nature they sabotage the pursuit of understanding and enlightenment.

You've stated Caryn was "framed," you've stated before that I no longer feel I can support the "hoax theory," etc...etc...etc... And when someone points out something that you've fabricated, you flippantly joke about it and try to change the topic. Don't understand what I want? I want truth, Dan. Pontificate with philosophical platitudes all you like - I don't care - but don't make up b.s. I am a gentle sort of guy, and I don't like conflict, but when I spot a lie I will call you on it and I will use those lies you've stated to pound you into the ground. That behavior may fly on OM - a place where lies are born - but it won't fly here.

Otherwise, my friend, have at it.

I am suggesting that there may be a larger Truth, and that we may not be able understand it in a piecemeal fashion. I subscribe to the Coherence Theory of Truth. Most folks subscribe to the Correspondence Theory of Truth.


As my diatribe above alludes to, I subscribe to the correspondence theory, I think that's pretty obvious. The Coherence Theory has never made sense to me, to be honest. Just because you hold a set of erroneous beliefs and think they are true doesn't make them true, it just makes you delusional.

In short, I am claiming to be a Visionary, with a New Vision. You claim that I have nothing new to present. Well, I would like to see the book wherein, the Best Possible World Hypothesis has already been presented. I have done my share of googling, but maybe I missed it.


This may help: The Aquarium Conspiracy

THE AQUARIUM CONSPIRACY
by
Dan Smith and Rosemary Ellen Guiley
Directors, Center for North American Crop Circle Studies


Which of course is a play on "The Aquarian Conspiracy" by Marilyn Ferguson

The Aquarian Conspiracy: Personal and Social Transformation in Our Time [Paperback]

"Personal denial, mutual denial, collective denial. Denial of facts and feelings. Denial of experience, a deliberate forgetting what we see and hear. Denial of our capacities. Politicians deny problems, parents deny their vulnerability, teachers deny their biases, children deny their intentions. Most of all, we deny what we know in our bones."

"We are caught between two different evolutionary mechanisms: denial and transformation." And this is the essence of this fine book: to point out the current states of denial and to offer realistic, immediate alternatives for a positive transformation to an existence that we would rather have and can obtain with a little effort."


You are a preacher for the "New Age" movement Dan. I'm okay with that, but the least you can do is admit that the concepts have been around since at least the early to mid 1980s.

I say that every fact is subject to interpretation, and that this process of interpretation depends on the fundamental assumptions that one is making about the nature of Reality....... a Reality that you claim has yet to be Uncovered! One of us seems to be putting the cart before the horse.


I believe there's something going on that we don't understand, but you're claiming to understand more than you know.

All I am saying is that ufo phenomena may force us to rethink what is the nature of reality.


This is the one small statement that I can at least agree with - although I feel that it's only 1% to 5% of the phenomenon.

Understanding these phenomena may require a paradigm shift or even a paradigm inversion, of a radical sort.


I disagree - this is your New Age belief-set talking. Understanding the phenomena will lead to a paradigm shift in science, and I suspect will greatly enhance our understanding regarding the physical nature of the Universe.

Yes, and then you raise the subject of Ron's job. But, at the same time, you disparage my truthfulness, because I don't agree with you that Ron is merely a scientist. You might be correct, Ry, but there is a possibility that the truth of the matter is not in plain sight. If you are dealing with a Tricksterish phenomenon, you might not want to put a mere scientist in charge of investigating it.


A mere scientist isn't in charge of investigating it. Maybe this isn't a lie on your part, maybe he truly has you believing this.

Did Ron forget to tell you that this Phenomenon is not amenable to scientific analysis? Maybe that is why he keeps tabs on visionaries, such as myself.


Everything on earth is amenable to scientific analysis. Every "black box" has feedback and responses that can be understood through scientific analysis. Even if you can't see it, you can understand it in time.

Should I ask Ron to call you to urge you to allow one of his little visionaries to pursue an alternative vision?


Should I inform Ron that you've started drinking again?

Are you going to allow me to pursue a Truth or Vision that may not entirely correspond with your present understanding of how the world works, or how it should work?


Yes, just don't use statements that you know are lies to do so.

Yes, Ry, I am attempting to be a visionary, and even a prophet, if you will. I hope that you have not decided that there is no room for such an entity in your corner of the world?
.


There is always room for a prophet and visionary - and I've been brought up to expect him and look for him by the fruits that he bears. You, my friend, bear rotten fruit.

-Ry
---
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby ryguy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:13 pm

dan wrote:Or are you just blowing this out your *ss, into Andy's Latrine.

Make my day, p*ssy.

BTW, what exactly are the ToS, deep down in Andy's Latrine?

Just wondering.........

.


...basically, you are allowed to make a complete and utter *ss of yourself by treating a fair, balanced and considerate guy like John in such a manner. John has more insight re: truth in his little finger than you have in your entire body.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby dan » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:30 pm

Ry,

Hmmm......

Not too shabby.

Hey, it might even be good enough for gummint work!

.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby dan » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:45 pm

John,

Wow! You come with a high recommendation from an FoR.

As Ron's very best bbq buddy (VBBBQB), I have to admit that I am duly impressed.......

Ry.......
...basically, you are allowed to make a complete and utter *ss of yourself by treating a fair, balanced and considerate guy like John in such a manner. John has more insight re: truth in his little finger than you have in your entire body.

But, have you ever heard the expression.......

It's not always what you know, sometimes its who you know??

I'm willing to grant that you probably know your mother, most of us fortunate humans do know our mothers.

But after that, what is your connection....... oh.... well, to me, just for instance.

What is our degree of separation?

And, do you know anyone kinda famous, who might connect you with other members of the RU forum?

Is this an idle question?

Can you gather that it may not be the dumbest question that anyone ever asked you?

Or not.......?
-----------------------

BTW, this question has a great deal to do with the difference between the Correspondence and Coherence theories of Truth.

Now, Ry has just publicly admitted that he has never understood the Coherence Theory of Truth.

And, since Ry says that you know so much, may we assume that you do understand the CohTT?

Given that you do, then you would probably agree with me that this would be an important thing for Ry to learn.

Yes?

.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby dan » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:09 pm

Ry,
You are a preacher for the "New Age" movement Dan. I'm okay with that, but the least you can do is admit that the concepts have been around since at least the early to mid 1980s.

Marylin Ferguson.......

Well, but was she an FoR, nay, was she the VBBBQBoR?

You will understand, once John and I can explain to you the CohTT.

Am I right, John?

NB. Ry: She spelled it: Aquari(an). Rosy & I spelled it: Aquari(um).

Do you think you are able to imagine how much of human history could hang in the balance of those two letters?

Please, pardon my megalomania. Apparently Ron is able to pardon it. But, hey, here's another question, Ry.....

Has the Chief Scientist at the CIA ever abetted my megalomania?

Just Wondering..........

.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby ryguy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:28 pm

dan wrote:You will understand, once John and I can explain to you the CohTT.


You don't understand Dan - I understand the definition of the CohTT, what I don't understand is how any reasonable person would adopt it. You or anyone else may "explain" to me why you subscribe to it, it won't change the fact that I find it to be the incorrect theory regarding truth.

NB. Ry: She spelled it: Aquari(an). Rosy & I spelled it: Aquari(um).


This is why I wrote that it was a "play" on the original writings. And, by the way, obviously you and Rosemary have been pushing the "Aquarium" for two decades and you're making very little (or no) progress. You sure do have staying power. What ever happened to Rosemary?

Please, pardon my megalomania. Apparently Ron is able to pardon it. But, hey, here's another question, Ry.....

Has the Chief Scientist at the CIA ever abetted my megalomania?
.


I don't know about the Chief Scientist - but I know that a member of the Science Staff at CIA, who has had significant family problems due to his private obsession with crazy people, has you on his roster of "interesting crazy people" that he follows. Gordon Novel is another. I suppose Caryn, I, Chris Ivo, and many others may be as well - all different forms of "crazy" obviously.

If a CIA Scientist orders a Big Mac on his lunch break, does that mean the CIA is a sponsor of McDonalds?

Just Wondering...
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby dan » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:45 pm

Okay, Ry,

As an FoR, I guess you are cleared for the following piece of (dis-?) information.......

Last fall, Ron, Paul Murad, John R, and I had lunch at the China King grill in McLean, VA.

Ron introduced John R. as Monk Fish.

I then turned to Ron and asked, please, remind me, what is my Aquarium name?

How do you suppose that Ron responded to my question?

Would you believe me, if I were to tell you my recollection of how Ron responded to my question?

Would you believe Paul Murad?

Would you believe Ron?

Still just wondering, Ry............

P.S. Would you believe Aliyah, who was present when Ron made the same statement, earlier this year, just before the wedding?

Aliyah was also present when Ron relayed to her Imam the question that Ron had asked from me, one of three, to ask her Imam.

Would you care to know what this question was, or what was the Imam's response as witnessed by Aliyah?

Ry, I have a question for you...................

Have you ever heard the expression........ carrying a Joke too far?

Still, just wondering........

P.P.S. Do you suppose that the present POTUS, like many of his predecessors, has any curiosity about UFOs?

Oh, yes, and how many degrees of separation are there, between you and Barry?

Still, just wondering..........

.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby ryguy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:13 pm

dan wrote:Last fall, Ron, Paul Murad, John R, and I had lunch at the China King grill in McLean, VA.

Ron introduced John R. as Monk Fish.


And I bet John R. understood it as a joke, unlike you...

I then turned to Ron and asked, please, remind me, what is my Aquarium name?

How do you suppose that Ron responded to my question?

Would you believe me, if I were to tell you my recollection of how Ron responded to my question?


Of course I would - Ron has a surreal sense of humor that few people can really understand, including you apparently.

Would you believe Paul Murad?

Would you believe Ron?


Is name dropping the only thing you know when the chips are down and the hard questions get asked? lol

Of course I'd believe that he'd give you and John R silly nicknames. We're talking about a grown man who had you dress up as Robin Hood and read from a scroll as part of a Muslim wedding reception. Why wouldn't anyone believe the dinner-story? Just because certain people were present doesn't make the actions or the comments part of his "official" work. You seem to have a difficult time differentiating between reality and the delusional dream-world you've created where you're part of a government disclosure effort.

Are Ron's actions ethical or moral? No. Does that prove that you are part of said government disclosure effort? No.

P.S. Would you believe Aliyah, who was present when Ron made the same statement, earlier this year, just before the wedding?


Would I believe a woman who showed up at our dinner wearing a tiara to play along with Ron's nickname and inside joke of her as the "princess"? Yes - she shares his sense of humor and interest in crazy people.

Aliyah was also present when Ron relayed to her Imam the question that Ron had asked from me, one of three, to ask her Imam.


See above comment.

Would you care to know what this question was, or what was the Imam's response as witnessed by Aliyah?


Nope.

Ry, I have a question for you...................

Have you ever heard the expression........ carrying a Joke too far?
.


Ahh...now we're getting somewhere.

P.P.S. Do you suppose that the present POTUS, like many of his predecessors, has any curiosity about UFOs?


It's very likely - I mean most people tend to have *some* curiosity about various phenomenon. Their work or official position is irrelevant.

Oh, yes, and how many degrees of separation are there, between you and Barry?


Between 1 and 6 I would assume.

I ask you again.

If a CIA Scientist orders a Big Mac on his lunch break, does that mean the CIA is a sponsor of McDonalds?

Just Wondering...
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby ryguy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:16 pm

And Dan,

Please stop editing the same post after you've already posted it. If you have anything new to add, just create a new post.

Thanks,
-Ryan
---
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby dan » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:26 pm

ryguy wrote:And Dan,

Please stop editing the same post after you've already posted it. If you have anything new to add, just create a new post.

Thanks,
-Ryan

What if I refuse to follow your instructions?

Will you banish me, as they have, four times, at OM?

Just wondering........

.
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby murnut » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:29 pm

Relax Dan...It's just annoying to realize you've added to a post....sometimes, most times whatever you've added get missed
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby Chorlton » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:36 pm

murnut wrote:Relax Dan...It's just annoying to realize you've added to a post....sometimes, most times whatever you've added get missed

Wait !
We need an ignore button.....................

OK I'm going :D
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Re: Saving the world?

Postby dan » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:37 pm

Ry,
If a CIA Scientist orders a Big Mac on his lunch break, does that mean the CIA is a sponsor of McDonalds?

Well, how much have you heard about my three meetings with Chris Straub, in 1995, when he was the ranking staff member of the SSCI? What did we have for lunch, and where did we have lunch, when Ron joined Chris and me for our third meeting? And why did Ron refuse to meet in Chris's office, back then?

I'm still, still just wondering.......
-------------

Watch me ignore Ry's very explicit instructions........

Why was there a meeting with Chris, in the first place, and what did it have to do with an alleged act of molestation?

Who made the allegation? Do we have a need to know? And who alluded to this act, in 400 newspapers?

SJW........

.
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