Why can't we trust what we see?

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Re: Why can't we trust what we see?

Postby lost_shaman » Sat May 29, 2010 11:15 pm

Access Denied wrote:Anyway, I think the article Steve linked to in the OP is a must read for anyone who believes in the infallibility of eyewitness testimony. It’s highly subjective and must be treated as such if one wishes to approach the UFO phenomenon in an objective, scientific manner…


To an extent, but do to the nature of Memory itself you can't juxtapose the results from the OP article with those that might be obtained from a situation like a UFO sighting and just assume the results would be the same. The former involves a complex situation involving numbers of strangers and strange faces and complex sets of events not to mention dozens of rather minor details such as clothing that an eyewitness must disregard or commit to memory on the fly. The latter in almost all cases represents a much simpler set of events and many fewer details to commit to memory, and as the object being observed already has the observers attention not to mention the observation being atypical and he is committing these details to memory with much less to distract him.
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Perception and Deception, how normal things appear strange!

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:37 pm

Hi all.

I just want to talk a little about how your eyes and other circumstances can make normal mundane objects appear strange.

now just a little background before i tell this story, i have been interested in ufos, planes, space etc for a huge chunk of my life, i would say that i can recognise quite a lot of planes by sight and engine sound including fighter jets due to being regularly overflon by tornados, typhoons and f-15s and the police helicopter over the years, and also due to attending airshows.

im also well versed in chinese lanterns, satellites etc due to all the ufo videos ive watched. so overall i can usually recognise most things in the sky by their movement, speed lighting etc.

i was at my parents house over the christmas period, and i went outside to have a smoke with my mum as my baby nephew was in the house. it was night time with a crystal clear sky and the stars were bright and highly visible.

their house is in hessle, right in the flightpath of humberside airport and we were watching planes on approach and departing, one plane on approach flew quite low over the house and we could see it well and hear the engine reasonably loud, then what looked like another planes lights started coming towards us but a lot lower and slower than the other plane which didn't look right as it seemed far too low for a departing plane.

we watched what we thought was a plane get closer on a heading towards us but what would pass us maybe ten houses or so down the street, but as it got closer it started to look less and less like any normal plane and had no engine noise which should have been pretty loud by that time, by this time me and my mum looked at each other and back at the object in a sort of stunned moment, my mum asked "whats that?". "no idea"i replied.

this thing still looked like a structured craft with lights on right until it got over the back gardens of the houses further down the street where it became fully illuminated by someones garden lights.... it turned out to be two rather large white birds, most likely geese.....

these things were flying in a perfect side by side formation and had been illuminated in such a way that their bodies looked like two lights on a structured craft.

it just goes to show that anyone can be mistaken by even the most mundane things under the correct circumstances, had those birds not eventually been fully illuminated then i would be still wondering what i had seen.

edit) just to add, when the birds were far away and looked like lights, i could actually physically see the dark outline of what looked likea structured craft/plane, but that structure obviously wasn't there, so did my brain or eyes fill in the blanks and make me see what i would have expected to see, ie a planes structure around the "lights"??? hmmmm

thanks

rich
Last edited by RICH-ENGLAND on Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perception and Deception, how normal things appear stran

Postby m0r1arty » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:09 pm

At least you didn't try to proffer a suggestion to your mum about what the object was - that's the difference between perception and deception. "I don't know" is the only honest answer. "It could be..." allows for the fact you don't know, but what follows could be used in an overarching scenario to mislead someone.

Let's look at the image below.

Image

What do you see?

Some might see a sunset. Some might see a smiley face. Some might see three people on a balcony on the right. Some might see a photoshopped image. Others proof of God's work. It's a mishmash of ideas out there.

Personally I see a reminder of the happy face cloud that got Maybe, Maybe Not banned from a website.

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Re: Perception and Deception, how normal things appear stran

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:12 pm

Personally I see a reminder of the happy face cloud that got Maybe, Maybe Not banned from a website.


ooh! i must have missed something!. do tell?. lol

thanks

rich
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Re: Perception and Deception, how normal things appear stran

Postby m0r1arty » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:16 pm

MMN/WN? can give a better description than I can but, to me at least, it seemed that his banning hinged on the fact that someone reported seeing a smiley face cloud prior to a UFO.

MMN posted a picture of a smiley face by way of asking (potential for intelligent mocking isn't out of the question, but it's not stated as fact either) if it looked like that and that snowballed into him being ridiculed and shortly thereafter banned.

Again, he'll do a better job of explaining that situation. Just another case of the moderation there deciding what the undertones of one posters expression is over that of another. Seems bias is heavy when they make assumptions.

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Re: Perception and Deception, how normal things appear stran

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:23 pm

ah right, i didn't even know he had been banned, i just thought he had decided not to bother posting after his warning and the silliness from the mods in springers thread.

oh well, hopefully that means he will contribute more here as he has a lot to offer.

and thanks for the favour m0r. much appreciated.

thanks

rich
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Re: Perception and Deception, how normal things appear stran

Postby m0r1arty » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:31 pm

He does have a lot to offer and I actually appreciate his general being around. Good humour, intelligent posts and analytic mindset are abound in him...or is that just my perception. Is he deceiving us!

I have it on good authority that he and someone else whom I like but who cannot currently post here are in communication with each other. Be nice to talk to him myself one of these days :)

As for that favour, it is nothing, seriously. I understand the integrity of maintaining an internet name and understand that bypassing the systems in place to communicate with people you like whist having done nothing wrong, or at least as wrong as many others who are still members, is silly. If a reasonable piece of assistance is called for I will answer.

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Re: Why can't we trust what we see?

Postby Access Denied » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:47 am

m0r1arty wrote:I have it on good authority that he and someone else whom I like but who cannot currently post here are in communication with each other. Be nice to talk to him myself one of these days :)

You mean MM? If not, send me a PM and I’ll see what I can do. If so, he's welcome to return whenever I get word that he no longer wants his account closed. I just assumed he never got back to you…


P.S. I hope you don’t mind Rich but I merged this thread with a similar one that has some links to some scientific research that has been done into eyewitness testimony that you may find interesting.
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Re: Why can't we trust what we see?

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:58 am

Access Denied wrote:P.S. I hope you don’t mind Rich but I merged this thread with a similar one that has some links to some scientific research that has been done into eyewitness testimony that you may find interesting.


no problem Tom.

as we're on this witness testimony subject, i once watched a similar documentary where a group of people were invited to do a sort of reality tv show which involved going into a forest camping, but unbeknownst to them there was a fake ufo crash site surrounded by military personel.

the group was then asked to recount the details of their experience and all of them gave hugely wrong and differing accounts of what happened, they were then asked back for an interview a few months later to recount their experience again and all gave different accounts to the first time.

ive not been able to find the documentary since but i think Dr Richard Wiseman was the narrator and tester.

thanks

rich
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Re: Why can't we trust what we see?

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:12 pm

hi guys, just reviving this as i saw this video that our friend Arbitrageur had posted elsewhere and thought it was relevant, and also might help people to see how our eyes, ears and brain can easily be decieved.

first up we have the mcgurk effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0

then a wiki page on infrasound which can also be responsible for fooling our eyes, brains and feelings and is said to be responsible for many ghost sightings and induced fear leading to its use in some horror films.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound

thanks

rich
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