Ringside, And In The Ring, At Nevada Caucus.

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Ringside, And In The Ring, At Nevada Caucus.

Postby MikeJamieson » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:52 pm

Just got back from an exhausting caretaking stint only to face countless meetings and acitivities surrounding the Nevada caucus scheduled for just under a year from now. Having been generally too busy to go online in recent weeks, that means I had a lot of catching up to do. I'm going to use this
thread to share stories of what I see and hear (and also do). I've decided not to work on any specific campaign. I prefer being lazy and not have the pressure of being some missionary for someone. (I'll probably get invited
to more picnics, potlucks, crab feeds, barbques, etc. that way.)
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Re: Ringside, And In The Ring, At Nevada Caucus.

Postby ryguy » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:40 pm

MikeJamieson wrote:Just got back from an exhausting caretaking stint only to face countless meetings and acitivities surrounding the Nevada caucus scheduled for just under a year from now. Having been generally too busy to go online in recent weeks, that means I had a lot of catching up to do. I'm going to use this
thread to share stories of what I see and hear (and also do). I've decided not to work on any specific campaign. I prefer being lazy and not have the pressure of being some missionary for someone. (I'll probably get invited
to more picnics, potlucks, crab feeds, barbques, etc. that way.)


Cool - welcome back Mike! Looks like the list of next presidential contenders is starting to take shape. It'll be fun to read your stories in this thread...good to see you back!

-Ry
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Re: Ringside, And In The Ring, At Nevada Caucus.

Postby cartoonsyndicate » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:45 pm

MikeJamieson wrote:Just got back from an exhausting caretaking stint only to face countless meetings and acitivities surrounding the Nevada caucus scheduled for just under a year from now. Having been generally too busy to go online in recent weeks, that means I had a lot of catching up to do. I'm going to use this
thread to share stories of what I see and hear (and also do). I've decided not to work on any specific campaign. I prefer being lazy and not have the pressure of being some missionary for someone. (I'll probably get invited
to more picnics, potlucks, crab feeds, barbques, etc. that way.)


Hi Mike,

If Russ Feingold isn't running then it all falls to the Al Gore and Jim Webb. What we don't need are more poseurs and ego-trippers like Hillary, Obama, and that putz from Delaware.

And while I've never voted for a Repuglican (except for John Lindsey, 1972)- I'd love to see Chuck Hagel run as a new Democrat. How about this- Webb- Hagel in '08?

And another thing- the Democratic party has been challenged to give us a slogan. How about 'expansion of rights?'

cs
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:24 pm

Oh, bye the bye- if you love provolone this is the site for you: http://www.dibruno.com/

cs
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Postby I.P.Freely » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:53 am

cartoonsyndicate wrote:Oh, bye the bye- if you love provolone this is the site for you: http://www.dibruno.com/

cs


Why do I get the feeling your not the real toon?
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:13 pm

I.P.Freely wrote:
cartoonsyndicate wrote:Oh, bye the bye- if you love provolone this is the site for you: http://www.dibruno.com/

cs


Why do I get the feeling your not the real toon?


i dunno. tell me why you think that before i descend into a paranoid identity crisis.
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Postby I.P.Freely » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:15 pm

cartoonsyndicate wrote:
I.P.Freely wrote:
cartoonsyndicate wrote:Oh, bye the bye- if you love provolone this is the site for you: http://www.dibruno.com/

cs


Why do I get the feeling your not the real toon?


i dunno. tell me why you think that before i descend into a paranoid identity crisis.


I don,t know you seem very different maybe its just me.
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:50 pm

I.P.Freely wrote:
cartoonsyndicate wrote:
I.P.Freely wrote:
cartoonsyndicate wrote:Oh, bye the bye- if you love provolone this is the site for you: http://www.dibruno.com/

cs


Why do I get the feeling your not the real toon?


i dunno. tell me why you think that before i descend into a paranoid identity crisis.


I don,t know you seem very different maybe its just me.


Well- maybe I am a little changed, somewhat introspective of late; or better put- braced. Looking at my children and my grandchildren and wondering what will be left here in a few short years. Watching the earth tear itself apart in little fits of hatred and petty greed. I’ve thought lately about that thin blue patina painted on the planet as viewed from Hubble. We call it air. Watching the belching, farting global corporations mindlessly despoiling it gives me pause. Stuns me. Braces me. Perhaps it is the case that apathetic and ravenous humans will be somehow reined in and educated by the flying saucer people. Talk about long odds! And so, here on this forum, my only quest is clarity of thought and of the written word and ethics. But in the end I'm just another fatuous plaint in the void. Of course I also love to cause laughter- but nothing seems very funny to me right now.

So yeah- it’s still me. Remember when some members here were convinced that you and I were the same guy? Both peeing freely, I guess. The truth is that we’re all ultimately the same guy, some peeing freely and some bladder retentive and some thoroughly incontinent. Only your urologist knows for sure.

cs
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Postby MikeJamieson » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:09 pm

Hi CS. Chuck Hagel has been mentioned a lot (along with Mayor Bloomberg)
as possible third party or independent candidates. I love Chuck Hagel, and
a lot of Democrats I know feel the same way.

As someone who is going to be part of this caucus, I'm going to have to
make a choice in just a little over 11 months. I will not be voting for Hillary
Clinton for sure. I will not be voting for Barak Obama for sure. Same for
"Gabby" Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Tom Vilsack (first one I've met, btw), Mike
Gravel, Dennis Kucinich. I CAN vote for Bill Richardson, Al Gore, and
John Edwards.

Tuesday we will have our first regular monthly (and main) meeting. We're
going to hear from an Iowa caucus organizer. There are also twice a month
meetings to train "leaders" or "coordinators", but I don't need that added fluff
in my life by some firm of trainers that conned the the local Democratic Party
into an unnecessary contract to train a bunch of us to be "leaders" in the
process. There are other useful training classes, for functional things like
working the voter activation network database.

The reason why the Party is doing all this is because we have to set up
about 200 voting sites in this county (1000 statewide). When I went to
the 2004 caucus in Reno, there was only one site for voting that time.
So, they need a lot of volunteers and a good way to organize them (which
they did for 2006 by placing us in teams organized by Assembly Districts
and headed by District Coordinators, Section Coordinators and Precinct
Team Leader---hence this leadership training stuff they've now started up).
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:33 pm

Damn, yeah- I completely overlooked Bill Richardson and John Edwards. I really like Bill- what a great pres. he’d make. Edwards, I’m afraid, would be pushed around and ultimately owned by the nanny wing of the Party. Plus- I read that he and Elisabeth are building a 22 room house for themselves. That kind of excess galls me no end. In any case, you’re doing the people’s work out there. Nevada has become a major player.- as has Denver.

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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:49 pm

Justin Raimondo on Hagel: www.antiwar.com


February 2, 2007
The Maverick
It’s Hagel
by Justin Raimondo

The Hagel boom continues. Of course, regular observers of this space know that it started here, and here, but it is really beginning to take off now that Peggy Noonan has weighed in:

"Mr. Hagel has shown courage for a long time. He voted for the war resolution in 2002 but soon after began to question how it was being waged. This was before everyone did. He also stood against the war when that was a lonely place to be. Senate Democrats sat back and watched: If the war worked, they'd change the subject; and if it didn't, they'd hang it on President Bush. Republicans did their version of inaction; they supported the president until he was unpopular, and then peeled off. This is almost not to be criticized. It's what politicians do. But it's not what Mr. Hagel did. He had guts."

Mickey Kaus snarked that Hagel was merely jumping on a bandwagon that had already been rolling, but Noonan's timeline is correct: Hagel was criticizing the war long before any on the other side of the aisle, aside from Russ Feingold, found their voices.

Hagel has seized the moment to dramatize, with his straight talk, what most Americans are now thinking and saying about this rotten, seemingly endless war. A most unpleasant term of approbation has been attached to his rising political fortunes: they're calling him "the new McCain." Now, the old McCain was bad enough, and still is, but one can't help noticing that the old one's stock is falling, along with his poll numbers, even as Hagel's rise. There's only room for one "maverick Republican" in the media's collective consciousness, and in the public mind: aside from that, however, it's all about the war.

McCain is falling in the polls, and his former supporters among independent voters are falling away, entirely due to his ultra-hawkish stance on the war. If McCain had his way, we'd have 100,000 more troops in Iraq – and we'd already be halfway to Tehran. He's always been a more-interventionist-than-thou kinda guy, but his media fan club pretended not to notice this back in his glory days because he was such good copy. However, go back through the history of U.S. interventions in the recent past, and check his stance: from Kosovo to Iraq, his solution to each and every foreign policy crisis has been "more boots on the ground." When it comes to Iran, and even Russia, McCain's default position is invariably belligerent. A more determined enemy of peace does not exist in the U.S. Senate, or in American politics.

McCain and Hagel, apart from their diametrically opposed stances on the war, have much in common. Both are Vietnam war veterans, much decorated, and are gruffly direct and unvarnished in their speech and mannerisms. The two are good friends, and Hagel supported McCain over Bush in the 2000 presidential primaries.Yet they seem to have taken away from their military experiences very different conceptions of America's role in the world.

McCain exudes the barking belligerence of a bully who goes ballistic with ease. There is about him the aura of a man who is continually engaged in a balancing act between the overwhelming demands of his enormous ego and a deep well of anger that suddenly turns his face crimson with rage. One wonders: is that steam coming out his ears?

The Senator from Nebraska, on the other hand, while emanating a gruff assurance, lacks the fanatic certainty of his Senate colleague, and, instead, seems genuinely baffled by American policy in Iraq. Rather than projecting his ego, he puts it aside, and, in place of pushing some preordained agenda, bluntly asks the questions that are on everyone's mind. In doing so, avers Noonan, Hagel has injected a fresh note into the congressional debate over the war:

"Mr. Hagel said the most serious thing that has been said in Congress in a long time. This is what we're here for. This is why we're here, to decide, to think it through and take a stand, and if we can't do that, why don't we just leave and give someone else a chance?"

In Imperial America, the Senate is increasingly irrelevant, at least when it comes to foreign policy, and yet this effort to bring to the Senate floor and pass a resolution criticizing our Iraq policy could be the beginning of a new and very welcome trend. The out of control Presidency of George W. Bush has arrogated to itself more power than any Roman emperor – including Nero and Caligula – ever dreamed of. This is a dangerous "weapon of mass destruction" that needs to be defused for the peace of the world, as well as Americans' well-being and safety. What Hagel is saying is that we're still a republic, in spite of everything, and it's not too late to change a course set for empire.

On the question of Hagel's presidential prospects, the Senator has been saying that he'll make a statement soon. There is also some intriguing news that he might be considering a third party run. An Iowa poll already has him one point below Mitt Romney, the establishment conservative candidate.

With his military background, red-state persona, and rock-ribbed conservatism, Hagel's antiwar stance is all the more credible and palatable. Good old David Boaz, over at the Cato Institute's blog, says all too many conservatives are still in thrall to big-government Bushism:

"But I'll predict that over, say, the next 12 months leading up to the Iowa caucuses, Hagel is going to look increasingly wise and prescient to Republican voters. And as they come to discover that he's a commonsense Midwestern conservative who opposed many of the Bush administration's worst ideas, he's going to look more attractive."

The Republican revolt in the House and Senate is gathering strength, and the war is being increasingly questioned in conservative circles. Back in the day, when neocon enforcer David Frum smeared right-wing opponents of the war as "Unpatriotic Conservatives," the idea was to end all discussion of the issue on the right. "We turn our backs on you," announced Frum, but he and his fellow neocons can't turn their backs on their responsibility for the disaster that has befallen the U.S. in Iraq. (Not to mention the catastrophe that has been visited on the GOP.) Their day of reckoning is coming, perhaps, in the form of an antiwar Republican presidential candidate with a credible shot at the nomination and an excellent chance of winning the general election.

The problem for Hagel's presidential prospects is that he has very little cash on hand: rumors of his retirement from the Senate were due, in part, to the paucity of money raised for his reelection campaign. It will take a real grassroots movement to give him the momentum he needs to mount a serious effort. Whether or not he announces, what this episode reveals, so far, is that there is a tremendous vacuum where American leadership ought to be. The question is whether the American people will fill it with a man of substance, like Hagel, or a pretty face, like Obama or Edwards. Can authenticity win out over hype?
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Postby I.P.Freely » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:04 am

Toon you shouldn,t look down on people who build big houses. It takes a lot of people to build those houses, puts food on a lot of tables. Its a much better use of their money then just leaving it in the bank.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:46 am

I.P.Freely wrote:Toon you shouldn,t look down on people who build big houses. It takes a lot of people to build those houses, puts food on a lot of tables. Its a much better use of their money then just leaving it in the bank.


Well, that’s one way of looking at it. The Social-Democratic way. Trickle down. Toiling on the lord’s estate for bread. But what’s the true cost? How many trees will it require? How many dumpster loads of spoilage will be buried? And how much energy will it take to sustain such an excessive house? How many barrels of oil every year for heat and electricity? And where will it come from? Sucked from the tripes of Gaia. How long can she endure this assault on her gut? And what great purpose does all the attendant waste serve? So a small family can live like royalty? There was a civilization here before the European invasion that understood the symbiotic relationship of man and nature. We killed them off just for the hell of it. And for this?

I understand the need for work, but work that despoils nature is necessarily meaningless work. And I say this as a builder for 40 years. I’ve built hundreds of houses and hundreds of buildings but only a few gave me any sense of meaning. And those were built for free for Habitat for Humanity.
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Postby I.P.Freely » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:01 am

Your still jumping to concluesion with Edwards I would assume any new home he would build would be as green as they come. But whatever if you want to use that as a means of judging if someone is capable to lead the country it certainly is your right to do so.
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Postby cartoonsyndicate » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:34 pm

Your still jumping to concluesion with Edwards I would assume any new home he would build would be as green as they come. But whatever if you want to use that as a means of judging if someone is capable to lead the country it certainly is your right to do so.


thank you for affirming my rights.

greed and conceit are dis-qualifiers for me. and as much as i like the guy i won't back him for the nomination- although i'd certainly support him against a repuglican if he were the nominee. he's far superior to any possible spawn of that humorless-mendacious-neo-fascist-nepotistic-knownothing-racist-evil-criminal organization. i can live with a little hypocrisy when the alternative is organized crime.


th'th'th'th'that's all folks.

cs

Molly Ivins rest in peace. You will be sorely missed.
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