Finding an oasis!

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Finding an oasis!

Postby mosfet » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:50 pm

I just want to add my voice to the chorus. What a refreshing board. And in the form of an introduction and background I’ve added, a perhaps too long submittal but nonetheless, here it is.

While I’ve had an interest in UFOs from an early age, I never actively pursued the subject until the past few years. As the Internet matured it seemed like a golden opportunity for the tinfoil crowd to proliferate along with it. So with this knowledge at hand I was hesitant and cautious about joining Mufon. I attended several meetings and finally asked the state director what their attitude was about the tinfoil types. He assured me that they were concerned as well and that ultimately a tinfoil type would be excluded. With those assurances, and a comforting knowledge that we were on the same page. I joined Mufon. (I know it is a highly decentralized org, but for an all volunteer group, discrepancies notwithstanding)

Then in 2006 (I believe) maybe 2007, Mufon started its own bulletin board. I also joined several other bulletin boards. Eventually you learn which boards are predominately tinfoils types, and especially how the membership tends to reflect the predominate board philosophy. The Drones were an eye opener for me on OMF and also that stupid side bar with the electrical wire connector and lunar eclipse. I watched as OMF spawned the DRT. While I tended to stay out of the tinfoil discussions it became obvious to me that OMF was predominately a tinfoil group.

To make a long story short, I watched the mufon board slowly degrade into a mirror image of OMF with many on the mufon board from OMF. I could never understand how mufon allowed this parasitic infestation to dominate there own board. It became obvious that two (of 3) of the moderators were tinfoil types so it was not too surprising to see the membership as a reflection. But what always confused me was why mufon allowed a seemingly obvious contradiction, a tinfoil bulletin board yet mission objectives dedicated to seeking the truth in as scientific an approach as circumstance would allow.

The answer was not so simple as several factors were involved in the mystery. Recent events eventually brought this to light. Mufon did not actually own the board. It belonged to former ID Carrion, and even though Carrion, not only stepped down from his position as ID, he quit Mufon entirely. Yet he was still in control of the board.

After a long drawn out attempt to convince his membership that Roswell was a disinformation campaign by the government, and failing that, he eventually turned the board over to Mufon at which point they promptly (and rightly) closed their rogue board.

And out of the ashes of that board, like the Phoenix, the diehard tinfoils have resurrected their own version of the Mufon board to continue their, mastications, without fear of ridicule from someone in the real world.

I thought it funny how, on OMF, a poster lamented, that with the closing of the mufon board 10,000 members were left with out solace, and the commensuration they all shared. So far they have resurrected 40 plus but I hope their numbers grow as this would be a good place to keep the tinfoils happy and occupied.

And so it is with this background I find RU a welcome oasis in a desert of flourishing deception.
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby ryguy » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:05 pm

mosfet wrote:And so it is with this background I find RU a welcome oasis in a desert of flourishing deception.


Thanks! What an excellent introduction. I, for one, am very pleased that you've dug your way out of the deception and found your way here. We've got some pretty strong fortress walls, cannons, and weaponry to keep the nutters away - although I have to say that it can be a full time job at times...lol.

So far, asking for evidence and giving folks a chance to provide that evidence has proven the best deterrent. They know wild claims will not be published at RU without solid supporting evidence, and those who do decide to offer evidence typically fail and run away (case in point - a recent woman who claimed EVP contact with spirit entities who could help her remote view....it was an epic fail...)

So, rest assured you will definitely find a balance of open minds, but careful and measured - a sane approach. The RU3 actually run the whole range, from the very skeptical to the mildly skeptical between the three of us. I think it's turned out to be the perfect recipe for a balanced forum.

Again - welcome to RU and thanks for joining us. :)

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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby mosfet » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:27 pm

Thanks,

You guys have a tough job. Brings to mind another metaphor, the boy with his thumb in the dike holding back the water.

Sounds like a good way to maintain the board. I know that on the Mufon board if you challenged anyone it brought immediate attention. It was a collective groupthink, that if you could oust a wacko or at least provide a logical convincing argument (that he was indeed a wacko), this would be perceived by the majority as a threat to their own wackoness and they formed a collective defensive mechanism. About four or five of the more entrenched would chime in and gradually insult you to a point that you would respond in kind. At that point the moderator would claim that you (not them) were in violation of the TOS and ban you. I think they learned this tactic from OMF. But never would a moderator (except for one, who eventually quit) support anyone running contrary to the groupthink. An assault on one was dangerous to the rest and their warped sense of reality. They had the system working so well that when the board closed their warped reality closed with it. This is why they were so upset.

Keep up the good work.
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby Zep Tepi » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:50 pm

Welcome to the site Mosfet, you won't find many whackos over here... Those that do fall through the cracks don't usually last very long lol.
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby ryguy » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:55 pm

Thanks,

There's always the danger (and we've been accused of this) of the opposite sort of group-think - where anyone with any claim is immediately called a nutter and dismissed without fair examination of the evidence. I think this is the difficulty with the various paranormal fields - not only holding back the water, but also allowing a trickle through just enough so that you can carefully examine the water for flecks of gold. Most of that work really comes from level-headed, intelligent folks like you who arrive, looking for something that can be held up as solid, valid evidence, and who have the ability to conduct thorough and quality investigative/analytical work on those claims. That's why I'm excited to see more people joining in, because the more eyes we have, more water we can filter for those flecks of gold!

BTW - do you have an EE or electronics background? Your nick gave me flashbacks of my circuit analysis days back in college...lol.

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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby mosfet » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:15 pm

I know it's getting harder all the time to separate truth from fiction. Someone may have an outlandish claim and it could be real. In real life (person-to-person contact) you can get nonverbal clues and other factors to help formulate an opinion but lacking that on the bulletin board makes it all the more difficult. But I remember a discussion with Mufon's Reichmuth and he expressed the same sentiments but did add that the more believable (abduction i.e.) were the ones less willing to talk about it. The attention getters however talk about it all the time.

I've designed a few circuits, and used to build Heathkits. Too bad they went out of business it was a great hobby and you learned something. Most of my stereo is Heathkit and has been running continuously for 20-30 years now.

Could have been an EE but no, other pursuits.
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby AussieMike » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:29 am

Welcome Mosfet,
I left the Mufon boards a long time ago, but for the very reasons you highlight.
The lunatic fringe has always, most likely will always be a part of this genre, its an occupational hazard i guess.
Thankfully the the occupational health and safety standards here at RU are the best in the bizz.
I hope you enjoy the site as much as i do

Mike
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby Access Denied » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:19 am

Thank you for that intro and welcome to RU…

mosfet wrote:Mufon did not actually own the board. It belonged to former ID Carrion, and even though Carrion, not only stepped down from his position as ID, he quit Mufon entirely. Yet he was still in control of the board.

After a long drawn out attempt to convince his membership that Roswell was a disinformation campaign by the government, and failing that, he eventually turned the board over to Mufon at which point they promptly (and rightly) closed their rogue board.

Very interesting. I must confess I wasn’t previously aware of the MUFON board (it wasn’t on my radar) and I’m surprised to learn Carrion ran it but from what you describe above, I’m not surprised he ran away from it…

[although I may not agree with some of his views, I do admire his rejection of “retail” UFOlogy]

Speaking of Roswell, here’s an old thread of mine you might find interesting…

Roswell explained? Potential NEW evidence!

mosfet wrote:And so it is with this background I find RU a welcome oasis in a desert of flourishing deception.

And that is music to my ears… :)

By the way, your "homeless" friends are welcome here as well.

Tom
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby mosfet » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:08 pm

Thanks all for the welcome I'm still in catch-up mode reading all of the various discussions and so nice to see a logical presentation.

While I am familiar with most of the arguments concerning Roswell i.e. disinformation/ET one aspect remains for me unanswered. As the story goes all bits of debris were gathered by men crawling on their knees picking up every bit of evidence on the ground. Seems to me that this could apply to either an ET craft or a weather balloon or even black ops craft.

So given either version and if this scenario is true, nowhere have I heard of any one involved in the pickup coming forward. You would think that there would be many who were detailed to this operation. But in all the articles, TV shows, I don't recall one person confessing that he was on his hands and knees crawling through the field picking up bits and pieces.
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby murnut » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:17 pm

Welcome Mosfet...great intro

I was surprise to hear that Carrion owned that board, since it was so much like omf...and there was no love lost between Carrion and omf.

I'm curious to see what direction mufon goes
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby mosfet » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:52 pm

My guess is that when Carrion was ID and created the board it was probably perceived as a good thing since Mufon does seek an out reach to the public, and at the time this probably seemed like a good mechanism. In fact it was. It wasn't until the tinfoil types became moderators that you could see the downhill slide of the board. Carrion for the most part was probably too busy with his own agenda to pay much attention to the board. Unfortunately, in my humble opinion, this board was an advertisement to the tinfoil crowd to come join Mufon. I know that some of these types are now field investigators and they started on the Mufon board.

Mufon now finds itself in quite a dilemma. I think they have to regenerate credibility to compensate for the fact that they were held hostage by Carrion and his rogue board. Given the volunteer nature of Mufon and the ill-fated circumstance of their last ID and the fact that it was essentially a rogue board commandeered by tinfoil types, which probably generated not only many new field investigators but new members as well they find themselves in a precarious position.

How do you establish credibility in a volunteer organization which for the past couple of years has openly advertised and catered to the tinfoil crowd? And these people wonder why the board was shut down with such abruptness?

These are people who converse with aliens daily, talk about an alien base in San Francisco, believe their DNA has been specifically altered, talk about their meetings with third and fourth density aliens, whatever that is, one adult woman who would go to bed with her 16-year-old son waking up with sore genitals and then claiming she was abducted, etc. it just goes on and on. No wonder MUFON dropped it like a hot potato when they could.

Whether Mufon will ever recover from that debacle remains to be seen. I hope they do.
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby ryguy » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:31 pm

Well - isn't it true that they are now being funded by Bigelow? I suppose with appropriate funding they should be able to recover pretty quickly now. :)

Although, if they have been catering to the tinfoil crowd for two years, the next question is - was it two years ago Bigelow started funding them? I wonder if that might explain it?

Mufon Wisconsin

3. The SIP/Bigelow Aerospace agreement and the usage of those funds, have not been reported to the MUFON membership. Presently, we have several State Directors handling several states at the same time. Funds should be allocated to State Directors and not to the International Directors agenda. For example, is the International Director traveling out of country more than he needs to when funds should be used to support State Directors?
Example: Mexico, Europe.


Last site update appears to be 2007....Interesting!

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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby mosfet » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:35 pm

Bigelow bowed out (or agreement ended 2010) and if this was directly or indirectly because of the bulletin board I wouldn't know. I don't think Mufon would have made a conscious effort to entice tinfoil types to join. However I'm sure this attitude varies from state to state and the individual personality of the state director and assistant state director.

It would be my guess that Carrion was responsible for the Bigelow pullout for reasons unrelated to the bulletin board and through his inattentiveness on the bulletin board eventually allowed that to become a tinfoil haven.

Some argue that the Bigelow connection was a sellout but then those were mostly tinfoil types complaining. To work for Bigelow you've got to be able to obtain a security clearance and I don't think too many on the old or new rendition Mufon board could work for Bigelow. It's too bad there was probably a lot of potential there for Mufon to expand and generate credibility.

So it would be my guess that Carrion is not the most popular Mufon memory.
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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby ryguy » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:45 pm

mosfet wrote:Bigelow bowed out (or agreement ended 2010) and if this was directly or indirectly because of the bulletin board I wouldn't know.


Interesting! He pulled out at the same time the board was pulled - that's fascinating.

I don't think Mufon would have made a conscious effort to entice tinfoil types to join. However I'm sure this attitude varies from state to state and the individual personality of the state director and assistant state director.


Yes, it depends upon Bigelow's intent and stated objectives, and how much control he had over what was done with the funds. It also depends to what extent Bigelow is a tinfoil type himself. Not saying he is - but you can just imagine what would happen to such an organization if a tinfoil type with deep pockets would come along and offer to provide massive funds - under certain "conditions."

Some argue that the Bigelow connection was a sellout but then those were mostly tinfoil types complaining. To work for Bigelow you've got to be able to obtain a security clearance and I don't think too many on the old or new rendition Mufon board could work for Bigelow. It's too bad there was probably a lot of potential there for Mufon to expand and generate credibility.


I'm not sure that I believe every single person funded by Bigelow requires a security clearance. For example, I work in a facility that does classified work, but not every person who works here needs security clearance (that would be a bureaucratic nightmare, I'd imagine). Also, I'm pretty certain there were scientists who worked on the Bigelow-funded NIDS team that had no security clearances...after all, why would they? It was a privately funded organization, not a government operation....

So it would be my guess that Carrion is not the most popular Mufon memory.


Well, if that "field researcher" of theirs (was her name Lilly?) over at OM is any indication, Carrion is the least of their problems...lol.

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Re: Finding an oasis!

Postby mosfet » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:35 pm

The board shut down in July but only because Carrion turned ownership over to Mufon. Had he not done that I suppose Mufon could have found some way to walk away from it? But it's clear from the abrupt closure that was their intent.

The last time I checked they said “able to obtain a security clearance”. Now it seems that has changed to “background check”

http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/baass-careers.php


I wouldn’t know if there is some kind of equivalency between a private firms security classification and the governments. I would imagine that there is, even though I've held a clearance in both the government and as a contractor. I believe that the government conducts the review for a contractor in the situation where the contractor works for the government (contract bid). In any case for situations in which there would be a lot of contact between private and government as I would imagine between NASA and BASS I would not be surprised that the government could review security information on individuals.

ryguy wrote:
Well, if that "field researcher" of theirs (was her name Lilly?) over at OM is any indication, Carrion is the least of their problems...lol.

-Ryan


That is a good example of the challenges facing Mufon. Some people probably say they are FIs (even if they passed the test) as an advertizing ploy to feign credibility. In those cases the State Director needs to review those FIs who participate in name only.
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