Bob Collins and Exempt from Disclosure

Project Serpo related discussion

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Postby caryn » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:01 pm

I’m sure they’ll be delighted with your salutations, David...not sure of the relevance here though?

Don’t you love conflict and ego puffing? All the fun of the fair ;-)

I’m off to Praha at the weekend, so I’ll take this opportunity to wish you all a very Merry Yule and a productive New Year.

C…
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Postby David Griffin » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:39 pm

It's those promo links that hit my inbox Caryn - I just can't help clicking and reading... I was thinking of seeking help.

Have a hedonistic XmEss break all. Give the conspiracies a rest for a bit and watch the Poseidon Adventure like the rest of the plebs.
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Postby ryguy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:41 pm

Gary wrote:I thought that the above embarrassing incident involved John Gannon. Isn't that correct, Kit? That was the gist of the message from Ron.


You beat me to it - this morning I'd logged in to correct my last post...the conversation was about the Gannon embarassing example of identity theft by the group of scammers - stealing his identity and using it as one of the DIA6/Anonymous.

Or were there two (or more) embarrassing incidents?


Yes exactly. And the poem was also an example of another embarrassing incident.

On another note - we were informed that the LANL sources which we were questioning Bob Collins about recently (related to the computerized voices over the phone) were not fabricated from stolen identities. Just yesterday afternoon we were told that those LANL sources (Rick's) were real people. However we were provided with background evidence showing that these were people who were conducting private-time hobby-related ufo interest research with Rick and Collins, unrelated to any official LANL activies.

Another example provided, similar to this was when one LANL source (his name was provided) and Rick (and I believe he said some others) went around recording subterranean EVP-type "alien" sounds and conducted analysis on these noises. This was also in fact a "LANL employee/scientist" but his activities were not LANL related. Guys like Rick call them a "LANL Source" in order to generate speculation of official LANL involvement.

Please take the above example for what it's worth - a 1-source statement that has yet to be corroborated (which is why I've withheld the LANL source's name for now). But once the story can be verified we might do a short article on the somewhat amusing story.

-Ry
Last edited by ryguy on Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby ryguy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:46 pm

caryn wrote:Don’t you love conflict and ego puffing? All the fun of the fair ;-)


rofl...

pot..kettle....

Oh what's the use...

-Ry
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Postby murnut » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:52 pm

Doty cannot be acting alone, otherwise he would be in jail.

Is he and whoever he works for just trying to kick the door down, or is his mission to cast the bait while others go trolling , fishing for ideas to problems they can't solve, as alluded to by Kit....Uncle is quite clueless.
It would not surprise me if the lap figures into that. Serpo upgraded?
Of course as soon as I say it would not surprise me, something always does.

Just thinking out loud

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Postby ryguy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:56 pm

murnut wrote:Doty cannot be acting alone, otherwise he would be in jail.


Exactly yes....the reason he would be in jail is if the documents he distributes (or sells to people like Firmage through Collins) actually had anything that was classified in them - he would most certainly be in jail. Steve wrote a great blog entry a while back on that topic.

Is he and whoever he works for just trying to kick the door down, or is his mission to cast the bait while others go trolling , fishing for ideas to problems they can't solve, as alluded to by Kit....Uncle is quite clueless.


Great hypothesis... I really like where you're headed with that. Only I would change it to "Is he and whoever he works with". The only org that there's proof/evidence he works for is the New Mexico State Police...and they certainly aren't driving his activities...

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Postby caryn » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:09 pm

ryguy wrote:
rofl...

pot..kettle....

Oh what's the use...

-Ry


I was including myself, Ryan.

And must add, thanks for your hard work - re: the questioning of Bob Collins, the LANL sources and related EVP data. Lord knows where we'd all be without your incredible insight.
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Postby ryguy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:22 pm

caryn wrote:And must add, thanks for your hard work - re: the questioning of Bob Collins, the LANL sources and related EVP data. Lord knows where we'd all be without your incredible insight.


wow....thanks Caryn for such an example of profound humility and kindness. Sorry I've been so "snappy". Not having a very good time with some family (and personal) illnesses, and it's got me very edgy lately (as I'm sure you've noticed).

Thanks for being so understanding and kind.

-Ry
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Postby murnut » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:24 pm

With instead of for...I agree

The only org that there's proof/evidence he works for is the New Mexico State Police...and they certainly aren't driving his activities...


One would not think that the NMSP could be involved.

But now my mind wanders.

I wonder how many retired USAF work for NMSP.

No...too crazy...I have been exposed to many hours of internet forums.

I need another vaccination.
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Postby ryguy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:43 pm

murnut wrote:No...too crazy...I have been exposed to many hours of internet forums.

I need another vaccination.


:)

Hey - brainstorming is where some of the greatest discoveries of mankind have been born.

If this helps (without saying too much yet...or Steve will give me the 3rd degree for flapping my gums too much... right Steve... lol)....here's a line of thought:

There are public stories of who Rick has been hanging around with and working with for decades (some of those names, and context, is provided in detail in Collins book). There are also plenty of other very good public sources and material that are credible which define those relationships - all publicly available. If you make even a very simple nodal diagram of relationships, you'll start to notice that in various stories that are released, whether it's MJ12, Burisch, etc... where you find Rick, you find certain other personalities...every time - either directly or indirectly. Not only the small circle of folks we've been discussing in regards to Serpo either...there are others.

So from those nodal analysis clusters....you then focus on those individuals who are working so closely with Rick - and in the timeframe of each story release, examine what those folks were doing and discussing not only related to the ufo/alien story, but also seemingly unrelated to the ufo/alien story - such as in their professional careers or research.

Taking it one step further... the moment you discern a pattern within the personal relationships, career/research, ufo/alien story plots... then you look for those patterns throughout the history of Rick & Co's efforts over the decades. And if the pattern repeats itself - you, my friend, are on to something.

Rabbit holes don't have to be dark - if a person can methodically stick to credible sources...then the path you follow in your research in exploring those seemingly dark holes will be more easily followed by those who come after you on the tour you provide.

What we do want to try to do is encourage people to avoid evidence-less speculation, and to work toward identifying patterns, developing hypothesis based on those patterns, and then testing the hypothesis through research and interviews... either disproving it - or gathering additional evidence to support it.

In spite of my disparaging comments about Gary's email-leaking articles and speculation - I do see Gary and Caryn (and Mark and John) as some of the very few researchers out there who follow those evidence-based methods.

And I'm really very, very happy to see more people (like you) agree with them and start to adopt them in your own research.

-Ry
Last edited by ryguy on Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gary » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:48 pm

ryguy wrote:
Gary wrote:I thought that the above embarrassing incident involved John Gannon. Isn't that correct, Kit? That was the gist of the message from Ron.


You beat me to it - this morning I'd logged in to correct my last post...the conversation was about the Gannon embarassing example of identity theft by the group of scammers - stealing his identity and using it as one of the DIA6/Anonymous. Weaver was another example of their method of misusing people's names.

Or were there two (or more) embarrassing incidents?


Yes exactly. And the poem was also an example of another embarrassing incident.

On another note - we were informed that the LANL sources which we were questioning Bob Collins about recently (related to the computerized voices over the phone) were not fabricated from stolen identities. Just yesterday afternoon we were told that those LANL sources (Rick's) were real people. However we were provided with background evidence showing that these were people who were conducting private-time hobby-related ufo interest research with Rick and Collins, unrelated to any official LANL activies.

Another example provided, similar to this was when one LANL source (his name was provided) and Rick (and I believe he said some others) went around recording subterranean EVP-type "alien" sounds and conducted analysis on these noises. This was also in fact a "LANL employee/scientist" but his activities were not LANL related. Guys like Rick call them a "LANL Source" in order to generate speculation of official LANL involvement.

Please take the above example for what it's worth - a 1-source statement that has yet to be corroborated (which is why I've withheld the LANL source's name for now). But once the story can be verified we might do a short article on the somewhat amusing story.

-Ry


Hi Ryan,

I am wondering if you (and all) have overlooked one important clue re: the contact that propelled this smoke and mirrors world right into the face of Mr. Gannon:

"Rich with details, the information contained in the numerous messages includes a first-hand account of an AVIAN confrontation at CIA with officers from the USAF."

Which is directly related to this line:

"I need you to know that Colonel Weaver has contacted me and said he is Gene Loscowski."

The implication is that the party behind the alleged WEAVER/LOSCOWSKI knew intimate details about the meeting at CIA, and used that knowledge to 'prove' he was one of those in attendance.
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Postby ryguy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:01 pm

Gary wrote:Hi Ryan,

I am wondering if you (and all) have overlooked one important clue re: the contact that propelled this smoke and mirrors world right into the face of Mr. Gannon:


Hi Gary - excellent, let's have a look.

"Rich with details, the information contained in the numerous messages includes a first-hand account of an AVIAN confrontation at CIA with officers from the USAF."


Just to help our readers - please clarify the following:

(1) What exactly you are quoting from.
(2) The context - in other words, before this paragraph, what is the writer referencing is rich in details, and "the numerous messages" which contain what the source claims it contains.

While we may know the context, obviously our readers don't - so in fairness who/what your quoting from should be made clear, yes?

Which is directly related to this line:

"I need you to know that Colonel Weaver has contacted me and said he is Gene Loscowski."


Again - let's clarify (1) and (2) above for our readers.

The implication is that the party behind the alleged WEAVER/LOSCOWSKI knew intimate details about the meeting at CIA, and used that knowledge to 'prove' he was one of those in attendance.


The thing that, personally, I feel has been overlooked - is that only one source has claimed to have received comments from this identity (and identities) quoting allegedly classified meetings, and in other cases this source has also claimed that material that has been released contains "classified code words."

As a very highly placed intelligence person pointed out to us last night (a source you know - so I encourage you to ask him about this) - is that code words are not classified. Their association with a particular classified project is. Obviously you can't classify words - words are right out of a dictionary. However their association with a particular project is what is classified as well as details about the project itself.

Meaning what? Meaning that a person who doesn't have very high security clearances can obtain code words that may or may not be associated with very highly classified projects.

Interesting, isn't it?

-Ry
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Postby Gary » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:31 pm

(1) What exactly you are quoting from?


Messages exchanged between a source with documented USG clearances/current contracts to Q-level (nuke) and a Senior Intelligence Official.

(2) The context - in other words, before this paragraph, what is the writer referencing is rich in details, and "the numerous messages" which contain what the source claims it contains?


Leaked emails from the above sources containing a discussion of two alleged DIA sources with names that failed to turn up in any electronic records search. Discussion of a meeting at CIA office with officers of the USAF re: polygraph report of a USAF intelligence officer. Contacts with the sources including requests not to reveal methods.
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Postby ryguy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:41 pm

Cool - thanks Gary.

Gary wrote:"Rich with details, the information contained in the numerous messages includes a first-hand account of an AVIAN confrontation at CIA with officers from the USAF."


One thing that has always bothered me about the claim above is that evidence of that contact that was "rich with details with a first-hand account" of the alleged confrontation has never been proven. The confrontation itself has never been confirmed either, remember? Did you ever receive a copy of the email from Gene? We asked for it - and were told it was lost or deleted..or maybe that it contained private or classified information...one of the top 5 excuses for not providing evidence of a claim anyway. Let's see: (1) No corroboration of any confrontation. (2) No corroboration of the fact that Gene reproduced data from the closed-door meeting.

Even the second source wouldn't corroborate the claim of confrontation - and he was at the actual meeting! "I must have left before that" - is his explanation...because he won't accuse source #1 of dissembling, source #1 is a friend. And as far as I know - no one has ever been able to provide evidence that the subsequent alleged knowledge of things said in a closed-door meeting was even real. No evidence - then it's not a fact.

And before speculation runs rampant about such a meeting taking place in the first place - the meeting itself was part of an investigation into the scammers activities....implying the only time there's been past government interest into the drama surrounding the scammers is usually related to erroneous/false claims of DIA or other Intel Agency "insider" contact providing classified data. They are forced to investigate those claims even though they suspect that the claims are bogus. Their investigation of such claims does not represent official interest in aliens/ufos. The same investigation would take place if the alleged classified leak was about nuclear weapons....or anything else.

It is also noteable that in every case where insider DIA/Intel status of a particular contact related to these MJ-12-esque story/scams have been investigated, they've always been found untrue. Oh, and those electronic voices? Analysts determined it was a "cheap hoax".

-Ry
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Postby Gary » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:21 pm

ryguy wrote:Cool - thanks Gary.

Gary wrote:"Rich with details, the information contained in the numerous messages includes a first-hand account of an AVIAN confrontation at CIA with officers from the USAF."


One thing that has always bothered me about the claim above is that evidence of that contact that was "rich with details with a first-hand account" of the alleged confrontation has never been proven. The confrontation itself has never been confirmed either, remember? Did you ever receive a copy of the email from Gene? We asked for it - and were told it was lost or deleted..or maybe that it contained private or classified information...one of the top 5 excuses for not providing evidence of a claim anyway. Let's see: (1) No corroboration of any confrontation. (2) No corroboration of the fact that Gene reproduced data from the closed-door meeting.

Even the second source wouldn't corroborate the claim of confrontation - and he was at the actual meeting! "I must have left before that" - is his explanation...because he won't accuse source #1 of dissembling, source #1 is a friend. And as far as I know - no one has ever been able to provide evidence that the subsequent alleged knowledge of things said in a closed-door meeting was even real. No evidence - then it's not a fact.

And before speculation runs rampant about such a meeting taking place in the first place - the meeting itself was part of an investigation into the scammers activities....implying the only time there's been past government interest into the drama surrounding the scammers is usually related to erroneous/false claims of DIA or other Intel Agency "insider" contact providing classified data. They are forced to investigate those claims even though they suspect that the claims are bogus. Their investigation of such claims does not represent official interest in aliens/ufos. The same investigation would take place if the alleged classified leak was about nuclear weapons....or anything else.

It is also noteable that in every case where insider DIA/Intel status of a particular contact related to these MJ-12-esque story/scams have been investigated, they've always been found untrue. Oh, and those electronic voices? Analysts determined it was a "cheap hoax".

-Ry


Ryan, I think you are confusing our source #1 and #2 and your source #1 and #2.

Our #1 source is a current official in the intelligence community; has appeared in the New York Times as part of an investigation before the Senate Intelligence Committee; continues to tap dance around issues of methods and sources.

I hope that clarifies this issue.

The second source would risk high-value government contracts and clearances if he was to provide false information to the first source; unless authorized to do so on an official level.
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