Behind Serpo

Project Serpo related discussion

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby ScaRZ » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:39 pm

I guess you had rather I just wait for the next few releases before you spill the beans. :P

I have a ton of questions........"Well I guess we all do."

I see Mr.Smith is ready to take you on Ryan. :D

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby Zep Tepi » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:00 pm

Hmm. I know I shouldn't get annoyed by people like Dan, but I can't help it.
Firstly, it really irks me that he chooses to "pick on" Ryan. ALL of the work that has been published here at RU has been a collaborative effort between the two of us (Ryan and I) and other people who have been connected with the research effort since the day we started. Ryan has written many of the newer updates, but using information that we have both been involved in the collation and analysis of.

Secondly, is Dan really so stupid as to completely miss the point of these releases? At the link above he names Rick Doty and Scientology as being the prime drivers behind the hoaxed information. I'm pretty sure I've said in a number of articles and posts that Doty isn't the number 1 behind Scammers Inc. Maybe Dan should read a little more of what we have presented and stop relying on second hand versions of it that he has heard via a number of different people.

Thirdly, Ron Pandolfi (CK) has got absolutely nothing to do with the discoveries we have made regarding the people and the motives behind the hoaxed information. I first came to a tentative conclusion wrt the motive quite some time ago. Ryan wasn't as convinced as I at first, but after seeing some very good examples of what I was getting at, he came around to the idea very quickly. It's hard not to once everything has been put in context. It would do Dan well to realise his "best buddy" Ron had no invovlement in any of that. Afterwards, we did put it to Ron and we were very heartened by his response. He provided us with some more leads to check out, leads which confirmed that which we already knew. It is worth mentioning that Ron has always known what the real motives were. That much is obvious now. It would have helped had he given us more of a clue earlier on, but I think it has helped us more by having to find it out for ourselves.

Dan needs the stories to be grounded in fact in order to support his, quite frankly, ridiculous hypothesis. His ability at putting a personal spin on information that has absolutey nothing to do with him is astonishing. However, it is refreshing to see that even at Open Minds there are people there who don't let him get away with it anymore. He should get out more.

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:21 pm

Dan is a clown, no two ways about it.

Zep Tepi wrote:Dan needs the stories to be grounded in fact in order to support his, quite frankly, ridiculous hypothesis. His ability at putting a personal spin on information that has absolutey nothing to do with him is astonishing.


As always, Dan needs to be at the center of the focus... otherwise his messiah schtick just don't.... well, schtick! :)

I just wish I had his funding source... I am sure I could put it to much better application than pumping up an ego that few people care about.

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby ryguy » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:47 pm

ScaRZ wrote:I see Mr.Smith is ready to take you on Ryan. :D


Haven't read his comments, and I don't plan to. If he's taking me on in there, he'll be the only boxer in the ring, swinging at empty air. I've no interest in entering the ring (especially there) with someone who can barely stand up straight on his own two feet as it is.

I've told Dan that I'd be more than happy to have a dialog with him via email, phone, or even here. But to be honest, entering a dialog with Dan is like attempting to go jogging in quicksand. It doesn't matter how much effort you put into laying things out for him in a logical way - he views his reality through the fogged glasses of his current mental state. As I stated privately via email, I no longer have any interest in arguing with believers, or trying to determine their motives. The same goes for Gary...you'll notice that regardless of what they are writing, the intent behind what they're both writing is the same. Damage control and serving as a defensive shield - whether or not they are actually aware of that themselves is irrelevant. That's what they're being used for. The real culprits are the silent ones in the background - and that is where my/our interest lies. Not in what believers have to say about the facts as presented.

I take it from the comments here that he's trying to imply I'm in Ron's back pocket. If that were the case, I wouldn't have added Ron to this list of suspects now, would I? Nor would I have publicly revealed his name in a number of those other articles as well.

"A few cryptic emails filled with metaphors hit my mailbox recently. Maybe a warning that we're getting too close. Maybe a hint that the heat is getting too much. Who knows...these guys have toyed with Ufology researchers for many years, they're not about to stop playing their games now. One thing is obvious, the first two men on the list above are "tight.""

Dan has no clue....no clue at all.

To be honest, I suspect Dan is just jealous because he needs to face the fact that he really isn't Ron's "spokesman," and nowhere near as important to Ron as he would hope he is....he's just another UFO dude on Ron's very long list of contacts within the field. Just another guy to Ron...no one special. None of us are.

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby ScaRZ » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:08 pm

ryguy wrote:I no longer have any interest in arguing with believers


I enjoy discussing but get nothing from arguing. Arguing in my opinion seals all minds. I see this all the time when two or more begin arguing over scripture. If you can all lay out and discuss your differences,then chances are something can be gained. I may never see it your way and you might never see it my way,but one thing can be gained and that's respect.
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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby Access Denied » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:31 am

ScaRZ wrote:I may never see it your way and you might never see it my way,but one thing can be gained and that's respect.

Wow, thank you for that ScaRZ… Ryan deserves it and it’s good to know others can see him for who he really is. He truly is just “searching for the answers”… unfortunately in this case he’s really not liking what he’s found out and because he’s also truly “passionate about the truth” he can’t help but report back what he sees as accurately as possible… that’s just the kind of stand up guy he is.

Believe me, it’s not for a lack on his part of being able to give folks the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, he’s privately said some nice things to me about you and I feel bad that you and I have never really been able to connect on anything.

Anyway, thank you again for your support.

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby ScaRZ » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:54 pm

I think you guys have done some great work. Great work makes many enemies because the words sting.
Just always remember it's never about the broad road that all the masses flood.It's all about finding the narrow path where only a small remnant travel.

AD.....Don't give up,you and I will find something to connect on.
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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby Zep Tepi » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:55 pm

Hmmm. Could it be that Dan Smith's entire collection of Source A posts and comments on his board at OM are based on nothing more than his fevered imagination? I noticed he is basing nearly everything he writes on the subject on what Ron Pandolfi has allegedly said to him in face to face conversations or on the telephone. Having only taken a passing interest in the subject so far, I decided to contact Ron and ask for his thoughts on the subject.

Imagine my suprise when he replied and stated that he was unaware of the Source A stuff. Knowing that not to be entirely accurate, I pressed him on the issue and explained that Dan would have us believe otherwise. He responded by telling me that Dan is not to be believed and in a further email, explained that he was only aware that a set of documents referring to Source A exists, but that he had no further knowledge other than that.

I decided to copy and paste the following information posted by Dan just yesterday, and again asked him what was going on.

Source
There is only one fact that has been established here…..

CK is willing for me to publicize, here, his continuing concern with the entire Source ‘A’ affair.

That is the ONLY thing that we know for sure. But that fact does allow us to make some reasonable inferences.

And here is an additional fact……

CK is in a position to easily ascertain the identity of ‘A’, and it would be unreasonable for us to suppose that he has not already done so.

It would further be unreasonable to suppose that he has not already communicated with A’s superiors about this matter.

The only real question before us is what may have transpired in that communication between CK and the relevant Navy officers.


Pretty decisive comments posted by Dan, no? Well, Ron again replied but this time he included some more people on distribution, including Kit Green and Bruce Maccabee. Apart from admonishing me for essentially asking the same question three times, he again reiterated that Dan was not to be believed. He further stated that he has no interest or concern with the Source A affair, nor would he have any way to ascertain the identity of the person, assuming he is a naval officer or even a real person - both of which he doubts. He went on to say that Dan "for some reason" attributes to Ron his own ideas and interests. He also mentioned that Bruce did tell him of a visit by a naval officer, but to state that this officer was Source A was inconsistent with rational thinking. The officer had his name and rank clearly displayed and spoke clearly and authoratively, with no intent of hiding his identity or personal interests. He closed by saying if he did have something to say, it would not be under the guise of the Source A affair.

So, what does this tell us? Is Dan freely making stuff up as he goes along, or is he simply twisting and turning real events and statements in order to make them fit with his own distorted view of reality? Either way, one thing Dan is definitely not doing, is telling his readership over at OM the whole story.

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby ryguy » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:07 am

I don't think he can tell the whole story...he doesn't know it. Instead he prefers to make it up as he goes along.

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby ryguy » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:54 am

The discussion below was in reference to Bruce Maccabee's comments regarding the Navy source visit...the snippet of his quote was part of an email exchange between a bunch of individuals, not the least of which included a bunch of email addresses from Scammer's Inc that we're familiar with. Bruce's quote was as follows:

"I met A last spring. He visited me in my office at NSWC. He got in on his own clearance (I didn't have to request a visitor pass). He showed me a lot of stuff concerning his history. Legitimate, so far as I know. He said the Navy is interested because naval systems have been affected by "you know who." However, technical details are classified and may not get into the open literature. However, for one story consider a combination
of Hawk's Tale about what happened over Japan in 1958(?) and the Iranian Jet Case of 1976."


My question sent to Ron:

-----Original Message-----
From: ryguy@xxxxxxxxxx(removed to prevent spam)
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 2:13 PM
To: Ronald Pandolfi
Subject: Re: <removed>

Do you have an opinion on Bruce's alleged "visit"? He doesn't strike me as the sort of guy to make up such a thing.

Best,
-Ryan

****
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:40:31 -0400
From: Ronald Pandolfi
To: ryguy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: <removed>
Headers: Show All Headers

Ryan,

There is not enough information for me to offer an opinion. Bruce did not work in a secure facility, so anyone with a CAC card (something every current or retired military or DoD civilian has, could get access. Therefore Bruce's statement that "he got in on his own clearance" is misleading. Bruce's statement that "I didn't have to request a visitor pass" refers to what he would have needed to grant access to someone without a CAC card. By the way no clearances are required to get a CAC card. Bruce's statement the "he showed me a lot of stuff concerning his history" is too vague to comment. He statement that source "A" stated "Navy is interested because naval systems have been affected by you know who" also is too vague. What do you know about source "A"? Kit has been hinting at the existing of source "A" but I have not reviewed any of his favorite blogs to see whether source "A" is identified as former military or defense civilian. If so, he could have walked into Bruce's office and just starting
discussing UFOs. Collins and Doty both have CAC cards. Sorry I am so uninformed regarding the source "A" issue. All I had noticed with the significant inclusion of Doty hoaxed e-mail addresses on the "to" list.

Ron

****

We'd earlier suspected that this was yet another Scammer's Inc operation, and this only confirmed that further. Shortly afterward, we lost interest in the content of the claim itself (regarding source A), and remained (and still remain) focused on Scammer's Inc itself.

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:24 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:So, what does this tell us? Is Dan freely making stuff up as he goes along, or is he simply twisting and turning real events and statements in order to make them fit with his own distorted view of reality?


Well, Dan pisses me off enough with his "pronouncements of fact" that it is worth my time to apply some simple logic to Dan's "facts":


Danny-Boy Smith wrote:There is only one fact that has been established here…..

CK is willing for me to publicize, here, his continuing concern with the entire Source ‘A’ affair.

That is the ONLY thing that we know for sure. But that fact does allow us to make some reasonable inferences.


And what evidence would Danny-Boy offer up that would allow anyone and everyone to verify that this is, indeed, a "fact" as he claims? Is it "fact" merely because CK does not call the Posse Federales and incarcerate Danny-Boy? Is this "lack of action" the premise for Dan to claim this is "fact"??? :roll:

And here is an additional fact……

CK is in a position to easily ascertain the identity of ‘A’, and it would be unreasonable for us to suppose that he has not already done so.


Again, what evidence could someone (anyone!) point to that would corroborate this as "fact"? I am afraid Dan has been allowed to get away with claiming things as "facts" without a shred of evidence to support them, that he done think he is the FACTory of all things FACTual! What a jerk!

It would further be unreasonable to suppose that he has not already communicated with A’s superiors about this matter.

The only real question before us is what may have transpired in that communication between CK and the relevant Navy officers.


What is unreasonable, Dan, is you claiming that something you "suppose" is an undisputable "fact". And stop trying to steer the conversation to only what you wish to talk about with phrases like "the only real question before us"... That is not only disingenuous, it is annoying as hell!

Please bring Dan Smith back to RU so I can continue to rip him new a--holes! :twisted:
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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby Access Denied » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:55 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:Please bring Dan Smith back to RU so I can continue to rip him new a--holes! :twisted:

Oooo... I would pay good money to see that! :lol:

Since he hasn’t been back I assume he’s still licking his wounds from the last time he crossed swords with you…

viewtopic.php?p=12351#p12351

He even said he owes you...

viewtopic.php?p=12386#p12386

[sigh, memories]

P.S. For those just tuning in, discussion of the latest goings on at OM where Dan, with his tail set firmly between his legs, sought refuge after his RU experience, continues here…

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1574
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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby suspicioso » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:19 pm

Some interesting notes from Dan over at OM:

I received an email yesterday morning, sent from Gordon Novel, confirming a dinner meeting for that evening in Roslyn. Also on the list were Paul Murad, Steve Greer and CK, and some other names I didn‘t know. I called Gordon to make sure I was actually invited, and whether the others were coming. I left a message with CK.

1.) CK and I sat at one end of the table, Gordon at the other. Steve was in the middle and did most of the talking. There were six others present. Steve has been a member of the RAM team since that last meeting, a few months ago, that CK told me about in January. This was CK's fourth dinner meeting with Gordon & Co. in the last two years.

2.) It is Steve’s idea to produce two films, POTUS Briefing I & II. The first, shorter one, would be for the President to view. The second would be for subsequent commercial release. It was difficult for me to tell how far advanced this project was.

3.) When Gordon spoke, it was mainly about submitting an energy related proposal to the government for grant money. CK, when asked for his opinion, averred that the time was opportune. That was about the only time he spoke to the group.

4.) Steve is good with personal anecdotes from Astronauts and former Clinton officials. He and Gordon spent some time swapping stories about MJ-12 interference in their affairs.

5.) CK and I spoke mainly about bio-fuels, Bigelow & Co. and Source ‘A’.

The advent of Greer caused a split in RAM, especially around Sarfatti’s concerns with Steve’s anti-gov’t stance. Jack has since left. Also the New Orleans-Houston contingent of RAM has mostly left. Shaheen remains in the background.

Hal Puthoff also left and is now the Chief Scientist for Bigelow’s continuing effort. I don’t know if Hal ever actually left Bigelow. Their scientific effort stymied some time ago, with the closing of NIDS. Their latest initiative involves querying abductees on alien technology. CR has contracted an acquaintance of Bob Collins to help with the espionage. CK has communicated with her. CK told the group that Bigelow would be competing with them. They had not known this, and I filled in Gordon on these few details after CK left.

There was some further back and forth between CK and me about Source ‘A’. It is still not clear when the meeting with Bruce took place, but ‘A’ did introduce himself as the ‘Source’, so it was probably after 2/12/08, and after Bruce had retired. He was dressed in Navy Whites, except for his non-regulation, dark shoes. CK has not asked Bruce for his name, and does not want to know it. He did note that it would be a serious offense to impersonate an officer, especially at a Naval Facility

As I was driving away from the Hotel, CK called to rehash the meeting. He said the whole thing seemed to him like a ‘Shakespeare play.’ He volunteered that we would discuss ‘A’ again, later.

There you have it.

.


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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby murnut » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:54 am

I spoke with Dan on the phone tonight...one of the topics was the "dinner party"

Can someone explain why CK is even there?

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Re: Behind Serpo

Postby ryguy » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:43 pm

murnut wrote:Can someone explain why CK is even there?


To answer that - consider the input that he provided at the Dinner. Gordon Novel/Greer et. al would be in direct competition with Hal/Bigelow.

In competition for what - and to what end. If you think about that, then Ron's interest becomes clear - and publicly detailing the reasons for his interest would be detrimental to something that we're all very interested in...exposing the motivations and the reality behind both competing groups. We don't have Ron's patience...if we did, we'd probably already be shoulder-to-shoulder and observing these groups as well - our approach (Steve, myself and Tom) is the journalistic approach. Ron's technique is slightly.....different. lol.

We were going to work on a story that would expose some of Greer's history that the public doesn't know about...but considering the competition of these two groups, we might hold on that and let them have at eachother instead. Conflict often reveals the most impressive truths...

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