Lucianarchy Uncovered

Project Serpo related discussion

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Lucianarchy Uncovered

Postby Hidden Hand » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:33 am

{This thread should be subtitled "Glass Houses and Black Kettles".}

Arguments against RU's Serpo exposes, and the information contained therein, seem to largely be about the ethics and morality of the RU investigators' actions - that somehow because what they did was unethical or immoral (in the arguer's judgement), that this somehow invalidates the information RU presents.

I'll just point to one example because there are many on OM and RU - ivo5000 and then later JakeReason regarding Shawnna's use of a pseudonym.

Since these accusations are coming from the 'pro-Serpo' camp centered now at Open Minds, I thought I'd look at how the words and actions of the head 'Open Minder', Lucianarchy aka admin at Open Minds, reflect the same "moral high ground".

It is not my intent to get into a debate about whether these behaviors are immoral or unethical - if somebody has a well-formed opinion about that, it is surely welcome - but rather to show that if that accusation is being laid against RU, it just as surely applies to the administration at Open Minds (amongst others involved in propagating and supporting the Serpo story.)

Fortunately, Lucianarchy (admin at OM) has been posting profusely on Usenet newsgroups and internet forums since at least 1998 - which gives us a large library of his words and actions for comparison.


Lucianarchy and Perception Management
One argument used against RU is that they mislead Victor Martinez into believing they were Victor's original Anonymous (Anon1, 'Request_Anonymous').

This could easily be spun by saying that Victor mistakenly believed his new contact to be his original anonymous, and nobody corrected his mistake.

There are many discussions online as to Lucianarchy's gender identity. I have yet to find one example of Luci directly answering any of the many times he has been questioned regarding his gender.

This newsgroup thread (starting somewhere around here) is just one example of many. {Note: that thread uses "adult language". Viewer discretion is advised.} Please note Lucianarchy's response:
Lucianarchy wrote:Rather, we are what others perceive us to be.


Now apply Lucianarchy's logic there to Victor's perception of the identity of the sender of the Wizard's e-mails.

(Lest anyone think Lucianarchy is joking in the above quote, check out his elucidation of his "perception" statement - that the "self" does not really exist, and we are only really the "role" that others assign to us in a situation.. which is something he seems to like to trot out when it benefits him, but forgets when it comes to condemning the behavior of people who he disagrees with.)


Lucianarchy and sock puppets
From a 2001 newsgroup post, identifying some of Lucianarchy's sockpuppets:
So far, I count 13 of your suck puppets over the past 2 years. Have I missed any?

"EVC" <........@......net>
Easy Vegan Cooking
Dr. Wilson
Peek at you
Phil
Lucy9254
Roald Humberg <R...@humberg.fsnet.co.uk>
Belvedere <x...@zoom.co.uk>
Thomas Hunter <tomh...@virgin.net>
Lucianarchy <lucianar...@dial.pipex.com>
D. Leary <l...@madasafish.com>
Various frogged misspellings of Lou & Wally's names
"bb" <y...@dial.pipex.com>
Robbin Roberts <robbinrobe...@dial.pipex.com>


On October 29, 2004, Lucianarchy made this post, titled "The End", at skepticalcommunity, apparently renouncing the use of sock puppets and giving up on posting about the paranormal:
Lucianarchy wrote:Chapters of life. This one is over. No 'if's', no 'but's'. No looking back. No sock-puppets. Just moving on to a completely new passion.

This is going to be long. But, after that, complete silence.


However, Lucianarchy apparently renigs on both promises: he is posting again about his psychic powers (in a thread he started on April 5, 2005), and then gets banned for using a sock puppet to agree with himself (on September 5, 2005). Here is the skepticforum administrator's note on Lucianarchy's ban:
Lucianarchy, our rules specifically prohibit multiple user accounts. Both of your user accounts have been deactivated and your primary user account, "Lucianarchy", has been banned. Considering that we intervened on your behalf when someone else pretended to be you, Lucianarchy, your use of someone else's name as a sock puppet is particularly offensive. Goodbye.


So much for "complete silence".


To be continued..



Lucianarchy wrote:All I ask is for people who have followed any my internet escapades: Do you own research, don't let others think for you.



{ edit to add adult language disclaimer on link }
Last edited by Hidden Hand on Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby I.P.Freely » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:53 am

what areyou babbling about ? do you have any idea how ridiculous that is. I did get a good laugh though I,ll get you that.
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Postby Almeirhria » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:14 am

Personally I think the name gives this person away :roll:
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Postby Xena » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:07 am

This topic is such a confusing one due to the sheer volume of data, that I admire HH's ability to put this into any sort of online format. I look forward to the next installment and I'll get my popcorn ready, Hydden will like this too no doubt, LMAO.

I'm gonna hotlink an emo for encouragement:)

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Postby Zep Tepi » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:43 am

This should be good ;)

I've seen a lot of the information that HH has found with regards to Lucianarchy, if anyone had any doubt regarding LA's ethics and morality they should be laid to rest by the time this little expose is done...

LA is the biggest hypocrite I have EVER had the misfortune of interacting with on the Internet.

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Postby serponaut » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:46 pm

I.P.Freely wrote:what areyou babbling about ? do you have any idea how ridiculous that is. I did get a good laugh though I,ll get you that.


Read before you jest IPF. You appear to have taken the role of Board Morality Police in general, so please practice what you preach. Don't get me wrong, mostly your morals are sound in my opinion, but please, once in a while throw in some logical argument to your stance.

HH I applaud your investigative skills and look forward to seeing what information this thread may bring.

You see IPF, people often tell on themselves and history sometimes provides an insight to future truth. My mind is open to all the possibilites. HH would not be going down such a path if it were merely for a laugh.
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Postby I.P.Freely » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:51 pm

I understand you feeling that why and you do havea point. But you can't tell me that
HH,s statement that Mr.Martinez could have just mistakenly believed the RU four
(not sure if I am correct on who exactly was involve so pardon me if I said that wrong) that he could have just mistaken them /him/her? to be anon with no effort to mislead him. How on earth can you not find that laughable given it is a fact that
he was mislead on purpose( and please understand I have no desire to start up
if it was wrong or right to do so again)

Hey and its totaly cool and hope that anyone calls me out if it seems I am not doing what I have asked. And what I mostly mean though is the personal attacks.
By all means if you find something I say is laughable, dumb, uninformed, childeish ect., ect.. But if you were to say I was stupid piss for brains(get I.P.Freely lol) that the kind of stuff that we don,t need. Because I don,t find HH to be ridiculous or laughable as a person just that one post. Maybe off the wall would have been a better choice in hind sight. Yikes I,m late for work again good thing I,m the boss got yo go bye
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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Postby Hidden Hand » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:08 pm

LoL - I think maybe you are misreading something? *I* am not saying that - that is applying the sort of excuse that Lucianarchy used to the situation.


Slightly OT, because this isn't dealing w/ Lucianarchy, but it may make things clearer - Let's try framing the situation thusly:

a) Doty sends emails to VM as "thewizardofzin"
b) whoever in the RU4 sends emails to VM as "thewizardofzin"

Now, it is claimed over at OM that b) is immoral and unethical and the lowest scummiest behavior imaginable. But how is behavior b) really different than behavior a)? In other words, criticisms being of levelled at RU apply just as easily to others in the world of Serpo - since the OMers have been making these accusations (in IMO abusive and emotional outbursts), I think it is only fair to stick up a mirror and see how the pro-Serpo camp fares in their claims of "moral high ground".
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Postby kiwicocky » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:26 am

Hidden Hand wrote: I think it is only fair to stick up a mirror and see how the pro-Serpo camp fares in their claims of "moral high ground".


Absolutely HH!!!

Rather than letting the serpo story speak for itself, and stand/fall on it's own merits, those pedalling the fiction as fact have clearly shown themselves up as dis-informants and pawns by way of the unrelenting character assassination of the RU investigators.

If serpo were true there would be no need, plain and simple.

If those pedalling serpo were credible, there would be no need either.

Lucianarchy wrote:

All I ask is for people who have followed any my internet escapades: Do you own research, don't let others think for you.


We are :) Pity more at OM couldn't think and discern for themselves.
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Postby ochre » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:09 am

I don't want to play with OM anymore.
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Postby Springer » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:49 am

The inevitable DEATH of a forum built upon the manure men spread in the hopes it will bear gold...

Their post count has dwindled to lower levels than I thought possible. It appears as though the thinking public (what little they did have coming by) has seen them for what they seem to be, a handful of sock puppets holding up a banner of smoke.

One wonders what the possible attraction of reading the rantings of three or maybe even four charlatans would be once the game is known. Obviously there isn't much attraction, the daily traffic appears to be down to less than a few minutes of a major site and a few hours of a quality site (such as this fine site). At this moment they have a whopping 4 people viewing the site, taking into account 3 or 4 sock puppets and I think the reality is clear. . . :o

The market always wins and those who would deceive the market ALWAYS LOSE.

One day, maybe, there will be a place where all the charlatans, con men and BSers can gather and create websites full of rhetoric and fairy tales, mis representations of the truth and out right lies (like the continued assertion RU.com is an affiliate of ATS - PURE LIE) and we can all check in on them for a giggle and a snicker... Heck maybe we'll buy up a few thousand domain names and donate them to these poor lot. :) Think that would be enough?

The point is, their day is done and they simply don't have the good grace and class to go quietly into the darkness they crept out of, but that's okay because by the looks of the traffic they are alone anyway.

Springer...
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Postby Shawnna » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:14 am

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Postby Hidden Hand » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:00 am

Springer wrote:(like the continued assertion RU.com is an affiliate of ATS - PURE LIE)


well, ever since RU bought out ATS, that is :wink:
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Postby I.P.Freely » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:36 am

Hidden Hand wrote:LoL - I think maybe you are misreading something? *I* am not saying that - that is applying the sort of excuse that Lucianarchy used to the situation.


Slightly OT, because this isn't dealing w/ Lucianarchy, but it may make things clearer - Let's try framing the situation thusly:


You may be right because I still don,t seem get your point in that post. I don,t see how bringing up someones past has anything to do with issues in the present. But if you chose to view it otherwise go for I really am not concerned. Just don,t expect me to see it that way I prefer to be mostly non-judgemental and believe all people have a good heart deep down. And we all makes mistakes also and its not very hard to dig up dirt on any one. If thats how you choseto spend your time more power to you.
a) Doty sends emails to VM as "thewizardofzin"
b) whoever in the RU4 sends emails to VM as "thewizardofzin"

Now, it is claimed over at OM that b) is immoral and unethical and the lowest scummiest behavior imaginable. But how is behavior b) really different than behavior a)? In other words, criticisms being of levelled at RU apply just as easily to others in the world of Serpo - since the OMers have been making these accusations (in IMO abusive and emotional outbursts), I think it is only fair to stick up a mirror and see how the pro-Serpo camp fares in their claims of "moral high ground".


I don,t remember any one saying lowest or scummiest but who cares so some
people think that is a wrong thing to do and I happen to be one of them. But I,m not trying to demonize anyone over it. If you think 2 wrongs make a right I wouldn,t have a problem with it I just don,t happen to believe that.
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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Postby Shawnna » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:52 am

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