Burisch Forum: Bill Ryan Q & A on Project Camelot

Project Serpo related discussion

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Postby Shawnna » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:32 pm

I need to go on the record and say I was wrong. :cry:

Yesterday when I woke up and saw how Bill Ryan was trying to use a number of forums for free PR (that is my interpretation of this), I was pissed. And I made sure my partners and most RU forum members knew it. I made a statement in "Site Business" and after a little slapping around by Ry, ScaRZ, BTS and HH (I think that's all?) I deleted it. I certainly didn't, and don't, want to be an obstacle to the flow of information or RU's perceived reputation.

Today, thanks to the tremendous effort of Ry, I am able to read through very intelligent questions and comments, and can clearly see what BR's new venture is about. For that, I am truly grateful.

And I was wrong when I said RU should not be involved in this yesterday. :cry:

I feel a great sense of hope - for the first time in a long time - given the enormous number of obviously caring, sensitive, intelligent and honest people who took the risk and posted questions and comments in this dialog.

I am also saddened because it is clear that every one of these caring, sensitive, intelligent and honest people has to be willing to invest their time, resources and emotional energy to prevent the likes of Dan Burisch and Company - and those who willingly and without forethought promote their BS from growing like a unchecked virus.

For without the due diligence, those who are most vulnerable would be at even greater risk.

I am very proud to be part of the RU staff - but more than that - I am proud to be part of this group of caring, sensitive, intelligent and honest people who refuse to sit idly by and allow others to be manipulated without a challenge.

I do hope Bill and Kerry take to heart what some have so thoughtfully shared. For they shall be held accountable too.
:yda:

Always,
Shawnna
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Postby ryguy » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:11 pm

Great heartfelt post Shawnna....thanks for writing that...

One thing that struck me was Toni's post at Eaglesdisobey.org. It was very eerie to me to read that breakdown of the history of the Burisch saga - given our own history with the Serpo saga. The parallels between the two are odd, and seem to have an underlying meaning... Some of the points in her post that really struck me were these:


Marci's background is in part in re-enactments, (Improv), stage performance and theatre.


Are you aware that a number of so called different "personalities," with different names, representing themselves to be totally different characters, have manipulated (and terrorized) many people by posting false and contrary information on what has been come to be called "the Golden Thread " and that all these posts originated from the exact same IP as Marcia McDowell?


What is you opinion of the forum antics on Eagles Disobey.net?


Are you also aware that there have been many attempts to "re-write" history by simply changing the facts after once presented?


That most of the scenario presented in the non-fiction book "Eagles Disobey" by Marci McDowell is in fact -- NOT fact but FICTION? And that although it may seem like one can all lay all the cuplability at Marci's feet that Dan is completely complicit in this as he is a co-author?


Also what do you make of the fact that Dan was instrumental in getting Marci a farcical Doctorate in Cello <snip>
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Postby ryguy » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:38 pm

**Mod Fix to keep questions in the same thread**

Posted by MikeJamieson:

My questions are:

How secure do you think any legitimate leakers of inside information
would feel in contacting you at the Camelot Project?

Given that this is probably a highly sensitive matter, to our national
security folks with access to classified information re: UFOs, wouldn't
it be logical to presume that all possible forms of communication by
you and others associated with Camelot would be monitored?
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Postby I.P.Freely » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:16 pm

Shawnna wrote:

I do hope Bill and Kerry take to heart what some have so thoughtfully shared. For they shall be held accountable too.
:yda:

Always,
Shawnna


With all due respect Miss accountable how?

So far all I,ve seen you guys do is try to discredit for what at least to me for trivial and ridiculous well I don,t know what you would call it. But I know what its not , its not for any crimes. Because no crimes have been commited. And if some had and if your had proof you would have charges filed against Mr.Doty and all the rest in a heart beat.
But of course with no crime you are only left vindictive personaly attacks that would make any normal feel sorry for your victims and makes plain to see the meaness and hatred that fills this board.


Accountable to who?

No one here has the legal nor moral authority to hold anyone accountable for anything no matter what you think , feel or say. Maybe you have forgotten there is a judical system for that . Not only is it wrong to place place yourself in charge of such matters and only serves to degrade the sociaty you wish to uphold. I know you can not see it or will allow yourself to even consider it but regardless you are begining to have the appearance of zealots. I believe you are good people with good hearts and intentions But your getting way to carried away with all this and I,m affraid the person you end up hurting the most will be yourselves.

Miss please understand most of this statement is directed at the mods and members but this is for you. I have seen you say you have never did anything wrong. But you must know that is a lie in itself. You would do yourself such a favor if you could see that you are no better then anyone that we are all equal even Mr. Martinez is your equal. If you begin to see things that you would be much happier. To the best of my knowldge only jesus can claim to doing no wrong and even that is a matter of opinion.

Accountable for what?

Really What or who has been harmed what law was broken.? Even If anything like that were to happen it would be your duty let me repeat it would be your duty to report any wrong doing to the proper authorities. And it is wrong and in some cases illegal to take matters into your own hands.And when you do Its not very hard to find yourself being the one who is held accountable.

It is my sincere hope that you all regard this for what it is constuctive critisium though I somehow doubt it. Either way I,ve had my say. And as I can see nothing possitive happening here at this time Miss would you be so kind and remove my account. Its been a pleasure meeting everyone. Good Bye I.P.F.
"You can either trust people or not. I choose to trust what people say and sometimes I get lied to. If I were to trust no one I would never hear the truth." - James (IPF) Martell
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Postby ryguy » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:29 pm

So, IP - what's your view on Victor calling Shawnna a crazy whore? I haven't seen you make a single comment about any of the hateful things he's said about her.

Or maybe you just consider it "trivial and ridiculous".

-Ry
Last edited by ryguy on Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Shawnna » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:29 pm

My heartfelt thank you, IPF for your feedback. It truly is very much appreciated!

I will not attempt to respond in detail here, right now, as I want to give your considered post, my considered response. I will take the time to do this when I get home tonight.

I am very sad to see you leave - and I do hope you will return at some point. I would prefer not to delete your account as it would be a huge pain in my own heart to do that. So I will leave it as is in the hope you return.

If you are set on deleting you account - I believe you are able to do that yourself. However, please consider that doing that may very well delete your contributions to our discussions which I would hate to see happen. We would be grateful if you would just leave your account as is so we can have the dialog intack.

Thank you again IPF. I do hope you reconsider.

[smilie=mylove.gif]

Shawnna
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Postby BlueTileSpook » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:36 pm

Sorry to see you leave, IP.

In response to what you posted above:

If a person lies, that doesn't make them a criminal where criminal charges can/will be filed, but it does make them a liar.

If a person knowingly misrepresents themself or others, that makes them a liar too.

I think Shawnna was referencing the idea that Bill Ryan will be intellectually accountable for whom he ends up representing on his site and the information there. If it is true, verifiable info - good on him, the credit is his. If it is false info - it is his reputation that will be trashed.

Once again, sorry to see you leave IP.

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Postby ryguy » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:38 pm

BlueTileSpook wrote:I think Shawnna was referencing the idea that Bill Ryan will be intellectually accountable for whom he ends up representing on his site and the information there. If it is true, verifiable info - good on him, the credit is his. If it is false info - it is his reputation that will be trashed.

Once again, sorry to see you leave IP.

JDub


That's exactly how I read it as well. That Bill and Kerry, and all of us for that matter, are always held accountable for the validity and accuracy of our research.

-Ry
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Postby Hidden Hand » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:03 pm

IPF - I don't think we should delete your account.

I will hold onto a hope that at some point you decide to return and continue posting.

We may not see eye-to-eye, but frankly, dialog is boring if everybody just agrees on everything - but you've always been courteous. I'll miss you if you go :(
Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?
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Postby billryan » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:08 am

Xena wrote:I'd also like to know if snowleopard is behind the DVD that is to go on sale any time now at the Burisch camp ?


No - no connection.
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Postby billryan » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:16 am

Shawnna wrote:My my my............. now we have Serpo hoaxer Bill Ryan requesting donations for his latest endeavor - which he boldly claims was inspired by another anonymous individual - "Mr. X".


That's correct.

Shawnna wrote::I'm not nearly as nice as Ryan is


Correct also.

Shawnna wrote:I believe Bill Ryan and his latest squeeze are simply in this for the $


Wrong.

Shawnna wrote:Of course they will not investigate the individuals that use their project to perpetuate their own little hoaxes and scams.


Wrong also.

Shawnna wrote:To do so would eliminate darn near all of the "stories" which means there goes the revenue!!!!


Wrong, and insulting.


Note to mods: people's posts have edited, members warned, or even banned, for less than the above. I note that there was no Mod comment, no edit of offensive remarks, and no apology.

Best, Bill
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Postby billryan » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:27 am

kiwicocky wrote:
snowleopard wrote:It has actually cost me a ton of personal finances to do these interviews out of my own pocket. Get your facts straight before you go around telling tales.


Well that begs the question then 'snowleopard' - why on earth are you doing said interviews if you are not looking for any return on investnment? This is not a business venture? It must be a hobby then?.


It's not a business venture. Calling it a hobby makes it sound trivial. We're doing it because we want to and are in a position to, and we think it needs to be done.

And as to getting facts straight before telling tales - I presume you practice this yourself in regard to said interviews?


As best we can.

In the Burisch case, are you suggesting that we should not have met him, interviewed him, and posted the result? We've had a LOT of people who have contacted us to say that, believe the story or not, this is the best interview that has ever been done with him.

Best, Bill
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Postby ryguy » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:30 am

billryan wrote:
Note to mods: people's posts have edited, members warned, or even banned, for less than the above. I note that there was no Mod comment, no edit of offensive remarks, and no apology.

Best, Bill


Hi Bill - No one has been banned for less than that message. The few bannings we have had have been for vulgar language, trolling (baiting w/ one liners), or spamming multiple forums. I can't find any such behavior in Shawnna's post. But in stating such, you did just give a month or two worth of ammunition to those who would make such false claims against us, thanks.

If you can reference the vulgar comment I will issue a warning (yes even to Shawnna) but I re-read her post a couple of times after your complaint and can't find a line that would warrant a mod warning. I couldn't find any place where she used vulgar or abusive language, or exhibited internet "trolling" behavior...

Please feel free to respond to Shawnna in kind and however you wish (which you have - and with some wit I might add). Assuming no vulgar language is used, you won't receive any kind of warning or edit either.

However I could have missed something, so if there is a vulgar or offensive comment that does warrant an edit, please let me know.

-Ry
Last edited by ryguy on Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby billryan » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:40 am

ryguy wrote:Bill - in response to the following:

serponaut wrote:

8/ Do you background check your present and future interviewees for past or present credibility issues?

As best we can, given that we’re not insiders with access to confidential databases, etc.


I believe what serponaut was referring to was doing background checks on interviewees for past or present credibility issues based on public databases - not confidential databases.

Criminal history, claimed educational credentials, contact information, etc... are all available in the public domain (if you know where to look and who to ask), and there is no access required to confidential databases. I believe Serponaut's question is - do you intend to verify your interviewees credibility with such "checks"?

If your response was that you and Kerry don't know how to do such searches or investigations - as I've stated before, the investigative team at RU would be more than happy to assist you with any such research - for the sake of maintaining credibility and integrity of Project Camelot. We do share the common goal of wanting to encourage true disclosure - the last thing we want to see is the credibility of Project Camelot harmed by a failure to perform due diligence.

-Ry


Yes, we'd be happy to accept a hand from anyone regarding establishing claimants' bona fides. It's quite probable that that there'll be an attempt to infiltrate us by a claimant with a fascinating story who is actually an agent trying to spread disinfo, or to discredit us by subsequently admitting the hoax.

We see that possibility as a genuine threat, just as there are probably agents who post on this and other boards (...you really think that this isn't likely?!). There were 21 agents in attendance at Laughlin alone. The whole UFO field is heavily infiltrated... it's naive to believe otherwise.

We're grateful for your offer of asistance. We've received other offers too - the more the merrier. It would be very illogical for us to turn those down, given our intentions to establish Camelot at the highest level of credibility.

Best, Bill
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Postby ryguy » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:41 am


Yes, we'd be happy to accept a hand from anyone regarding establishing claimants' bona fides. It's quite probable that that there'll be an attempt to infiltrate us by a claimant with a fascinating story who is actually an agent trying to spread disinfo, or to discredit us by subsequently admitting the hoax.


That's very good to hear.

I should publically post what I wrote to you privately, Bill - because I meant it and it's true. Making a public stand on any issue is difficult - you can't please everyone.

Here was what I wrote in a recent email to Bill:

---------start paste-------------

One thing Zep & I have realized running the forum,
conducting our research, and putting out our updates -
is that no matter what you release, no matter how much
you might try to please everyone - you won't. I'm
sure we could discuss for hours the different methods
of investigation and the merits of each...but in all
honesty if you and Kerry are doing what you feel is
the *right* thing to do, and doing it in the way that
you feel does justice - that's what matters.

I asked my questions in the forum before I had a
chance to read your last email where you answered some
of them, but I asked them in the forum so that people
can know the answer to how you do go about
researching. I wouldn't worry about anyone attacking
Project Camelot - any cause that is truly the pursuit
of truth will stand on its own two feet, no matter how
much anyone attacks it.

Best of luck (good luck with all of the questions,
hope there weren't too many) - and looking forward to
your reply.

-Ryan
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