Some critical reading for those new to the Serpo story

[dankk]

I am putting down a series of posts made on another forum. The Above Top Secret forum actually. I will put between 1 and 3 posts from Byrd for each post of mine to make it easier to read. One super-long thread is not well digested usually. If it becomes too long for some, I will put just 1 per post to make it that much easier if requested.

From what I understand, there is a supermoderator that goes by the name Byrd that has done quite a FANTASTIC job on laying out in detail the information that I personally consider CRITICAL reading for anyone that 1) is new to the Serpo story or 2) Has not yet read this series regardless of the position one would take on the belief or disbelief of this narrative.

HERE is the link to the thread at the ATS site that I have compiled this information:

The above link was provided by Zep Tepi from his own link giving small snipits from each piece of the series HERE.

The full Thread at ATS has even more information and words of wisdom by Byrd should you want to have a look at it. Credits to the information posted here will be given to Byrd and the ATS forum at the top of every single post I make that comes from that forum. Below is a quote written by Springer from the ATS forum giving expressed permission for these posts as well. Now these posts are "right as rain."

I give Reality Uncovered.com and the Member "Dankk" written permission as one of the owners of AboveTopSecret.com, LLP to present the "Byrd Serpo Thesis" content as posted on RealityUncovered.com. This permission is limited to the content specified above on RealityUncovered.com only and is continuous unless/until RealityUncovered.com is notified in writing of its termination.

Springer,
Partner, AboveTopSecret.com, LLP

Edit: The link to the general ATS website forum is below:

ATS Website

And here we go:

Edited to add the main ATS forum address and Springer's consent for the postings by Byrd to be here in this thread as well.

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

*********************************************************************************

Preface: May I suggest the following to start: by sdrumrunner from ATS

posted on 2-2-2006 at 08:04 PM (post id: 1987495) - single

May I suggest the following to start:

1. Contradictory information regarding the numbers of team members. Team member 102 cannot be the Team Leader if the Team Leader states, with regards to 102, "he is sitting right next to me."

2. Logisitcal Issue: "As for food, the team brought C-rations, military style. They carefully planned for 10 years." I have mathematically demonstrated here how this is impossible.


Note: There are many instances of anomalous data which while theoretically possible are highly improbabale.

EDIT: To change "almost certainly false" to "highly improbabale."

[edit on 2-2-2006 by sdrumrunner]

________________________________________________________________________

Byrd now steps in out of disgust and finally reveals her thoughts on the Serpo “story.” This is quite an eye opening read for those of you that aren’t afraid of facts. Would this ever be posted at the OM forum? That was of course rhetorical as it obviously answered itself when I mentioned the forum letters. For the new readers or info seekers here is your answer if you are unsure: Nope. Not then, not now, not ever.

1. Ebens, teams, and planetary science by Byrd a SuperModerator from ATS*

*the name Byrd before all of these entries implies that Byrd is the same person from the same forum writing on the same subject. The subject matter that is written about here is the story of Serpo and its many many flaws. Get your fill at Serpo.org run by Bill ryan.

posted on 9-2-2006 at 06:03 PM (post id: 2004455) - single

Ebens, teams, and planetary science

Now that I've found this thread, I'm going to add various pieces to it. I'd held off responding in the thread after a few snarks about skeptics like myself. However, since this appears to be an appropriate place, allow me to start in on the lunacy.

One of my favorite bits was the attempt at planetary geology:
quote: Our Team contained two geologists (they were also cross-trained as biologists). The first thing our geologists did was map the entire planet. The first step was to divide the planet in half, thus creating an Equator. Then they established a Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere. Within each hemisphere, they created four quadrants.


Anonymous, as is typical with UFO hoaxers, can't make up his mind if he's dealing with a galactic civilization or not. Ebens apparently don't have a way of telling "this is the middle of the planet" and "this is the equator" and can't manage to divide the resulting spheroid into two or four pieces...

...although they do have spherical fruit (as one of the hoaxers posts in a description about what they ate.) Apparently Ebens aren't sophisitcated enough to go from "we can divide this fruit into sections" to "we can divide the planet into sections" although they somehow manage to walk downstairs without tripping and manage to get from Eben to Earth repeatedly without running into Mars or the asteroid belt.

They even have dealings with other aliens (who visit them, as the Incident In The Mess Hall showed) -- and somehow, even those aliens never took them aside and said, "Look, Eebie -- I got this great invention I wanna sell you. It's called a map, y'see? And you and me, we can make money from it by selling it to your starship pilots. Lemme show you how it works...."

No, according to Anony-Hoaxer's account, the entire galaxy has been languishing in the dark, unable to turn those nifty photos of their home planets into usable maps or even understand what they mean, waiting for the time when we humans would show up and say to the galaxy, "Hey dudes! I got this concept for you! It's called an atlas and we can use it to show your pilots and people how to get from Point A to Point B. We can make money from it! Here -- let me show you how it works...."

So you heard it here, first, folks. As soon as the government announces we've found aliens, start buying stock in Mapsco Maps. The dough's gonna roll in as soon as the aliens find out there's a device that shows them how to go from Dallas to Chicago without having to travel through Lubbock during the West Texas sandstorm season.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]




2. "Lost in Space" Military Culture Byrd


posted on 9-2-2006 at 06:09 PM (post id: 2004465) - single

"Lost in Space" Military Culture

If you watch scifi films of the 50's and 60's, you'll notice that it's full of teams who go off to other worlds. New planet? Sure! We'll all run away on a 10 year mission!

AnonymousHoaxer knows he'll get called on it if he says these are military personnel on a secret mission, so he proposes that they took people (orphans) who have no ties to anyone and who can be conveniently erased... no parents, no family, etc. Judging from the number of "secret missions" reported in the UFO community with team members composed of exactly this kind of person, there must be some sort of factory that turns out "scientists who are orphans and military members with no ties to anyone."

In the military, you're part of an organization. You have a place and a name in a structure. He's asking us to believe that military officers who are ALSO scientists and working on projects with other scientists can suddenly be plucked out of a division or company and nobody ever notices. A top-class scientist can't just "disappear" and be "sheep dipped" and expunged from every single record there is.

Because they weren't tagged from birth to be "top secret undercover people," there will be high school yearbook photos, college yearbook photos (these are scientists; they went to universities), papers, publications -- if they're good scientists of any caliber then they will have presented papers at symposia (as I did.) You can't go back, track down EVERY single yearbook and publication and club membership list and newspaper announcement and erase it. There is no way to identify every single human (and library and archive) that obtained documents like that and to go in and erase them.

People would notice if you sneaked into their houses some dark night and cut out photos from the yearbook and scrubbed signatures of "To Ronnie, best love from future genius Mimi."

On a professional level, you can't erase them because too many people will have written papers with them. In order to be a scientist of that caliber, you have to have done a lot of research. Research leaves a lot of tracks and you cross paths and interact with a lot of others. The bulk of published research has not one, but normally at least three authors and oftentimes more than that. If that document gets published (in an annals or archive), they contact you.

Now... another important point deals with human psychology. Isloating a very small group of people (in a spaceship to Eben for 9+ months) for a long period of time has very negative impact on mental health. The Navy's done a lot of studies on this, and every submariner (like my son) knows how bad it is to be isolated on a small boat (with a lot more people than were on the "Trip to Eben") for 6 months with no ports of call.

It's not quite as bad if you're on a large ship with other people to talk to. But we are presented with a small group (10 or 12), and the possibility of at least five of them being aggressive people is very strong (pilots have strong personalities, security guards don't stand down for much of anyone, and into that we throw a leader-type.)

Once they get to Eben, they will be there with no sexual partners except each other for a period of 10 years. While it's vaguely possible that they might be naturally asexual or they might be homosexual, I don't see 'top gun" pilots suddenly vowing to go without sex for 10 years (the characteristics that make an ace pilot really are associated with a LOT of testosterone.)

In any "Lost in Space" episode -- as with the Serpo Hoax -- people of any stripe can just hop on a ship and speed off for 10 months or 10 years (neatly covered by a commercial break or a scene shift) and there are no social and emotional effects and no one gets into any verbal brawls and no violence occurs between the people interacting with each other, even if there's only one or two available mates for the males of the group.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]





3. Stupid Astronomy 101 Byrd


posted on 9-2-2006 at 06:12 PM (post id: 2004469) - single

Stupid Astronomy 101

I know that the first thing that people leaped on was the incredibly lame astronomy that sounded as though it came from an episode of the early "Lost In Space." For those of you who missed the critique, here's a basic review:

Let's quote directly, here:
quote:
THE PLANET:
Statistics on the Eben planet was collected by our team. Here is the pertinent data for your UFO thread list:

Diameter: 7,218 miles
Mass: 5.06 x 1024
Distance from Sun #1: 96.5 million miles
Sun #2: 91.4 million miles
Moons: 2
Surface gravity: 9.60m/s2
Rotation Periods: 43 hours
Orbit: 865 days
Tilt: 43 degrees
Temperature: Min: 43° / Max: 126°
Distance from Earth: 38.43 light years
Planet named by Team: SERPO
Nearest planet to SERPO: Named: OTTO
Distance:
88 million miles (colonized by Ebens with research base, but no natural inhabitants on planet)
Number of planets in Eben Solar System: Six
Nearest inhabited planet to SERPO: Named: SILUS (SILUS is made up of creatures of various types, but no intelligent life forms. Ebens use the planet to mine minerals.) Distance: 434 million miles



Let's go through it by the numbers. According to Anonymous, the planet Eben is about midway between two suns that are nearly the same mass as our sun:

sun * <-- 96 million miles -- > Eben <-- 93 million miles --> * sun 2


Let's put this in terms of our own solar system... he's saying that we've got the sun and then oribiting the sun is a second sun that's about the same size as the sun and is parked just a little outside where the orbit of our Mars is.

With the same mass.

Exerting the same size gravitational pull on the planet.

And yet the planet continues to orbit one sun (not the other, and isn't pulled apart by gravitational forces.)

To try this one for yourself, get a ball (any sort) and attach two pieces of elastic thread to it that represent the pull of each sun's gravitational force. Now... by pushing or pulling on the ball, get the planet to orbit ONE sun (but not the other.)

And no, the second sun can't pretend to be Jupiter and orbit the first sun. Because they're about the same size, they would rotate about a central point... which coincidentally happens to be about the location of "Eben."

Now, what "Serpo Hoaxer" doesn't know is that binaries that close will have accretion interaction in the form of a wind from one star to another (think: intense solar flares): http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect ... eting.html

So we've got two stars and a planet between, and hot solar gases are flowing from one star to the other.

And he's telling us that the planet is "Earthlike" and "slightly higher radiation". I don't know that a constant stream of solar flares hitting the planet would constitute "slightly higher radiation." "Cooked to a crisp" is a bit more accurate.

Not to mention the huge tidal forces from both stars, pulling in opposite directions on the planet. There's also two moons with their tidal forces... and the planet is miraculously radiation free and earthquake free.

Well, that's likely for an episode of "Lost In Space."

There's some discussion of the mathematics in the "comments" section on the original Serpo website. In the end, the only way that Anony-Hoaxer can answer these points is to try and claim that physics suddenly works differently in just that one tiny corner of the universe.

It's a lame excuse, used by other UFO hoaxers to try and cover up their blunders. It didn't work in the past, but this doesn't prevent Anony-Hoaxer from hauling it out of its grave and waving it in front of us in the desperate hope that we will suddenly believe him.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]

edit : edited to reflect proper gender for Byrd from the ATS website

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

******************************************************************************

4. Crackpot Cosmology Byrd

posted on 9-2-2006 at 06:20 PM (post id: 2004483) - single

Crackpot Cosmology

A brief glimpse at the rest of their cosmology is found in that same section of Anonymous' writings. According to that same message text, the little point that "nearest planet, Otto" is 88 million miles away.

Let's do the math (it's okay... it's easy.)
sun * <-- 96 million miles -- > Eben <-- 93 million miles --> * sun 2
* OTTO <88 million mi - > Eben


This means that the planet "OTTO" is orbiting about 8 million miles from its sun. "Serpo" is 93 million miles or so from its sun, so if you subtract 88 million miles away from it, "Otto" is orbiting around one or the other suns, at a distance of 4-8 million miles from that sun.

Those of you who are saying "Whoa! Planet of Cosmic Vaporization" win the prize. Yes, that's too close to a sun to exist.

Most of us don't have the numbers for our own solar system, so a bit of goodling shows that our innermost planet to the sun, Mercury, is 68 million miles from the sun.

"Otto" is apparently orbiting near the solar corona, where temperatures are hot enough to vaporize rock.

Crispy planet, anyone? And what are they mining on a vaporized planet, anyway? Hot air? if so, Anonymous must have bought up all the mines.

We quickly finish this exercise with another bit from that same post: the "nearest inhabited planet, SILUS" is 434 million miles away."

Let's put this in terms of our own solar system: Silus is as far away from "SERPO" as the Earth is from Jupiter.

BUT WAIT-- There's a huge star (Serpo Sun 2) orbiting at just outside the orbit of Mars! So... where IS this other sun that SILUS orbits? It can't be Star2, or Silus would crash into Sepro!
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0769141.html

Crowded little section of the galaxy, isn't it? In "Lost In Space" realities, you can ignore physics and place them wherever you like. Back here in Reality, it's nothing but Stupid Science.

Yes, he tries to do the "physics don't work the same in this section of space. I'll get to that one in a later post, where I start talking about the "scientists", who apparently were chosen for their boyish good looks and the way they filled out uniforms rather than for any knowledge of science.

[edit on 9-2-2006 by Byrd]



5. Dumb and Dumb-er-er-er-er Byrd

posted on 9-2-2006 at 08:32 PM (post id: 2004727) - single

Dumb and Dumb-er-er-er-er

To continue on my screed ...

I'll take up on the appropiriation of Sagan later -- the kidnapping of this scientist who is conveniently dead and can't speak up for himself is offensive. But let's address the issue of their scientists.
quote: CONCLUSION: One of the things our Earth-based scientists learned was not to apply Earth's laws of physics in a universal way.


This was Anonymous' very lame backpedaling when someone posted a very nice "gotcha" about the stupid planetary physics.

So let's talk about scientists and physics and mathemeticians for a bit:

A change in the expected physics of the universe is something exciting -- and the documentation and formulation of theories about this are the stuff that they hand out Nobel prizes for. IF it was true (and it isn't, but let's just assume that it was in the first place), there would be a lot of mathematical data and a lot of measurements that would corroborate the evidence that Something Odd Is Happening In Space.

FAR from covering it up, any real physicist/astronomer/astrophysicist/geologist/mathemetician would be zapping messages to and from colleagues, asking for equipment, making measurements, running mathematical formulas and working on the maths and algebras of this particular area of space. It would open up a huge field of research.

Any scientist would have brought back the data, discussed with colleagues (mathemeticians) and come up with a model for when and where and how the laws are adapted... and then published a lot of papers about this (or their colleagues would have.) Mathematical models would have been hammered out with physicists and multidimensional algebras would have developed to define how this space worked and how things worked there. String theory wouldn't have come along in the late 1990's... it would have been developed in the 1960's.

It's the stuff that Nobel Prizes are made of.

This was the era of the Cold War, folks, with the Evil Russkies and Crafty Castro. We were in an industrial-military arms and technology race. In addition to the theoretical and publication angle (which every scientist wants), there's also a huge set of industrial and military applications.


However, THESE scientists just sat on their thumbs and said "well, it's not like the rest of space." Just like Token Scientists in a Godzilla movie.

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

******************************************************************************

6. Lost In Space Geology.... Byrd

posted on 9-2-2006 at 08:54 PM (post id: 2004763) - single

Lost In Space Geology....

geological data in the first few messages was amusing, too:
quote: The geological make up of the planet was so much different than ours. Few mountains, no oceans, some trees or something similar to trees and no other civilization except the Ebens.


So let's review some basic geology here (I know not everyone is familiar with this. I'm married to someone who majored in geology, I have an interest in geology, and I volunteer at a paleontology lab so I know a bit about the subject.)
quote: Few mountains


In other words, no tectonic activity. The planet is inert. This implies a rocky core or a cold metal core (important point, there) -- OR that it has an erosional process that flattens mountains within a few thousand years. Since there's no water there, the erosional process either has to be Unbelievably Bad Smog, Godzilla Activity, or World-Wide Stone-blaster Sandstorms.

Oh yes, and that (we guess) not a single meteor ever hit it, either. Good karma shields, perhaps?

There's no water, either -- no oceans, some "underground rivers" that come up into a valley. Oh yes... it occasionally rains.

That would be a miracle of cosmic proportions.


Now, I know we all suffered through the hyrdologic cycle in elementary school... you remember this: the sun draws up water from the oceans, the moisture in the atmosphere collides with a cooler area and rain falls. Remember? With the bright yellow sun and the blue sea?

Well, if you don't have an ocean, how are you going to get water into the air for rain? And no, don't try the "it only rains around the rivers" explaination here on the board OR at home. You see, the moisture absorbs into the air and you need more than just a few rivers' worth of water in the air of a planet to get any rain at all. You need the ocean.

Anonymous also forgot to mention the physical effects of living in an area that's dryer than the Sahara Desert (it ages you, it dries your tissues out, etc, etc.)


You didn't forget my mentioning the rocky core/solid core of the planet, did you?

No tectonic activity means either a rocky core OR the metal core has cooled to a solid. If a planetary body has a rocky core, it has no magnetic field. If it has a cold core, it has a weak magnetic field.

Anony-Hoaxer (in his guise as Semi-Literate Leader) writes:
quote: We got out a compass. It doesn’t work.


Compasses are minature magnets. They work if and only if a planet has a magnetic core. "Serpo -- Planet of the Hoaxers" has no magentic field and therefore either has a metal core that's cold and disoriented or has a rocky core. By the mass of the planet (given by Anony-Hoaxer), we can easily conclude that it must therefore have a cold, non-oriented metal core because it has no magnetic field.

No magnetic field means that the incoming particles and solar rays blast the atmosphere off the face of the planet rather than directing them into the poles where they just make nice auroras.

As you'll recall from our previous episode of "Stupid Science From Hoaxers", the planet is actually sitting in the "crispy critter" middle of a strong solar wind that's flowing from one star to another. A solar wind that's not blocked by a magnetic field. A solar wind that strips the atmosphere away and sucks it into the other star.

(...and the Ebens, we are told, left their homeworld for Serpo because the homeworld was being overrun by volcanos? Were they victimized in their desperate plight by corrupt Galactic Agent Planet-Sellers who told the Simple-minded Ebens... "oh, it's a LOVELY little planet. Bit of a fixer-upper with the atmosphere and the lifeforms, but I can let you have it for nine thousand Gigalops. Just came on the market and I KNOW you don't want to pass up this opportunity!!!" Can the Ebens get their money back on this dangerous piece of galactic real estate? If they sue the Galactic Agent, can we tune in to the trial on Court TV?)

As science fiction, it's so lame that it wouldn't make it past a book editor and wouldn't make it onto the SciFi Channel, although you could probably have gotten Ed Wood (writer and director of "Plan Nine From outer Space") to make a movie of it, though, if he was still alive.
[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]



7. When Scientists Are Chosen For Their Good Looks... Byrd

posted on 9-2-2006 at 09:35 PM (post id: 2004844) - single

When Scientists Are Chosen For Their Good Looks...

A bit more about those daffy scientists, who apparently run around on the planet doing science for 12 years. Woohoo!
quote: Our Team brought back hundreds of samples of Serpo soil, vegetation, water and other items for testing on Earth. During our Team's exploration, they discovered numerous types of animals. The strangest was the "Beast" which looked like a large Ox. The animal was timid and never seen to be hostile.

Once they hit the planet, the Ebens become affected with the Incredible Stupidity Field as so many others have pointed out. Our Intrepid Scientists don't ask them "okay, tell us about the plaent and show us what you know using your advanced technology."

No, they're hardly interested in what the advanced civilization knows.

Instead, they run around playing Great White Hunter Bwana, investigating the planet with whatever equipment they managed to bring along with them. They "discover" bacteria (and apparently without laboratory equipment such as agar and petri dishes.) Either the Eben didn't tell them there was bacteria around or they forgot about the bacteria... and the Eben didn't look at the bacteria and say, "Oh yes. That's hypoglopper manaceritus, genetically related to the hoppinglbopper torsionotorous. Try some of it on this pestilential substrate."

And they let the Earthlings (those clever Earthlings!) name the animals because they apparently didn't have the mental energy to do so after forgetting all the bacteria on the planet and forgetting how to draw maps of the surface of their own planet.

Isn't this beginning to sound like a plot script that the directors of any self-respecting "Godzilla" movie would reject?



In the real world, when REAL scientists go into an area, they start by making contact and learning the language. They ask the locals to tell them about their understanding of the area where they live and they ask about plants and animals of economic value (or harm). Botanists will go in and ask the name of everything that's green, looks green, or might have been green at one time or another. You can see this pattern in the books published by anthropologists and scientists who lived in the early 1900's, including Margaret Mead, Franz Boas, Evans Pritchert-Brown, etc, etc.

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

*************************************************************

8. The Reason Why Scientists Don't Calculate - Byrd


posted on 9-2-2006 at 10:16 PM (post id: 2004901) - single

The Reason Why Scientists Don't Calculate

I loved this little gem from the question and answer section
quote: : What kind of scientific calculator did they take?
A: Unless the military was ahead of the commercial world (quite possible), the best portable calculator available in 1965 was the Sharp CS-10A, which weighed 25 lbs. The first handheld pocket calculators went on sale in 1970. These were just glorified adding machines – the term “scientific calculator” didn’t come into use till a far greater degree of sophistication had been achieved

And here we catch our hoaxer in a HUGE lie. You see, we scientists WERE using calculators and had been using them since the 1600's (yes, really). They're called slide rules, and if you know how to use one (I do, in fact, and I taught competitive (UIL) slide rule in the mid 1970's) you can perform complex calculations almost as quickly as you can with a modern calculator.
http://www.hpmuseum.org/sliderul.htm

BTW, that's not MY slide rule but I own one that looks like it.

Watch a rerun of "The Right Stuff" and look closely... you'll see NASA engineers at consoles with slide rules in their hands (and yes, that's accurate. There's newsreel footage of that somewhere, too.)

Slide rules were common until the mid-to-late 1970's. The Sharp calculator mentioned by him was incapable of doing any scientific calculations although it could handle financial transactions (it had about the same kind of functionality as a grocery store cash register.)

It coldn't handle mathematical functions necessary for scientific calculations (sine, cosine, secant, cosecant, tangent, inverse, square root -- all of which we could do on our slide rules) and couldn't handle any number bigger than 8 digits.

Eight digits is not enough numbers for scientific work.

The largest number it could present to you is 999999.99 and the smallest number would be .99999999. I believe that the calculators of that time were accurate to only 2-4 digits after the period because I do remember instructions on how to round up or down to make slide rule answers fit calculator answers (the slide rules had greater precision than earliest handheld calculators.)

Here's a picture of it:
http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/ ... cs10a.html

So the hoaxer "Anonymous" (who, in one of his statements presents himself as the commander of the Serpo mission) is actually much younger than his pretended age ... and was never in the military. I caught a couple of other cultural/historic slips; enough to convince me that "Anony-Hoaxer" was probably born in the 1970-1980 decade, with 1980 being more likely than the 70's.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]






9. When Scientists Get Their Degrees From A Degree Mill - Byrd

posted on 9-2-2006 at 10:49 PM (post id: 2004956) - single

When Scientists Get Their Degrees From A Degree Mill

Apparently we have galactic civilizations waiting for humans to come and figure things out for them. Here's a selection of "Ebens Are Too Stupid To Live" quotes from the Q&A section
quote: Q: If the planet's tilt was 43°, how is it that the changing seasons (especially at the poles) weren't more marked? Anonymous says the North Pole was at a constant temperature of 33° (presumably F), with 20 feet of snow, while the South Pole was a barren desert, and says above that Serpo didn't have seasons as we know them.
A: Not clarified. It might be expected that the climatology of an alien planet might require some in-depth study before weather patterns were fully understood.

So they had 20 years. They were in contact with a galactic civilization far more advanced than ours... and the Eben mathemeticians hadn't even begun to figure out chaos theory and fractals and weather patterns. It must be the Incredible Stupidity Field around the planet.
quote: Q: There seems to be a marked lack of biodiversity on Serpo. Why is this?
A: Not clarified. Anonymous may have only described the more dramatic animals encountered. We should also consider that because the Ebens did not evolve on Serpo and travelled there from their own home planet which had been rendered uninhabitable, Serpo itself may have been terraformed and animal and plant life introduced.

Hoaxing at its best (or worst). If you terraformed a planet, you would by gosh know what animals you put down there and would have named them and followed them to ensure the health of a planet. If, however, you were a hoaxer who slept through his science classes, you wouldn't have figured this point out.
quote: Q: They had access to an energy device which automatically provided the proper current and wattage. But their clock stopped because they had no batteries. Why did they not rig this device up to the clock at 4.5 volts and 3 amps?
A: Not clarified

Remember that I said the hoaxer, Anonymous, was born at least in the 1970's and possibly in the 1980's? Here's another of his lies that shows him up.

We didn't have battery operated clocks then. We had windup clocks and watches.

The first watches were coming out that used your body movements to wind them, but I believe Seiko was the only one to make them for awhile. My dad brought one back from Vietnam during the war.

...and anyway, do tell me:
* how someone calculates how many batteries one will need to power a clock for 10 years (let's see if this is more believable than the "Sagan equations" bit).
* how much a 10 year supply of batteries (with backups) weighs (we're talking battery life and weight back then, folks; not today's batteries.)
* why they'd devote that weight and space to batteries instead of food.
* if they didn't take spare batteries, why bring a battery-powered clock?

The correct answer is: They're lying. This is a hoax.

[edit on 13-2-2006 by Byrd]

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

*************************************************************

10. When Scientists Lose Their Textbooks... - Byrd


posted on 10-2-2006 at 08:18 AM (post id: 2005467) - single

When Scientists Lose Their Textbooks...

Today I'll get into some of the other science errors on a fairly basic level. Although I will express things in simple terms and not bring up all the background, this could be beaten to death in eve greater detail.

So... onward!
quote: We had a serious problem. How do we explain our science to an alien entity, who doesn't know Einstein, Kepler or any of the other scientists of our time. Simple mathematics, seems so foreign to them.


Ah, inconsistancies... how do I count the ways...?

We have a civilization
- that has navigation and therefore measures distances
- through space, yet
- that builds machines with parts that fit together so well that they don't leak air into space
- that builds huge water processing plants
- that build car-type devices
- that build flying devices "somewhat similar to helicopters"
- that has industry
- that has agriculture

...and it has no concept of 2+2?
...and can't figure out the speed of light even though they travel faster than it?
...and can't figure out how to calculate how fast their ships descend?
...that has no way of determining how much to turn the heat down if they're baking a cake and the oven is too hot?
...that has no way of figuring out how fast a car-vehicle is going? (look, ma! No speeding tickets!)
...that has no formulas to determine how much energy is derived from a certain mass of fuel of a certain composition?
...etc?


This is where you catch hoaxers such as Anony-Hoaxer in their stupidiest science. The reason they give for all that is "well, they have a different math that we don't understand!" But what we have is a lame hoaxer like Anony-Hoaxer who doesn't know anything at all about math and who's trying to pull the wool over your eyes.


I'm going to try and write this for the person with a high school understanding of math, so those of you with more advanced math please forgive the dumbing down of things.

Math is a universal. If I hold up one object, every sentient being in the galaxy understands that I have one object. If I hold up ten objects, every sentient being in the universe can count them (if they use a base 2 system, they would say that I had "1010 objects." If they use a base 8 system, they would say I had "12 objects").

If I hold up 3 objects, they can count that and if I take away 1 object, they can count those and tell me how many are left (even crows, chimpanzees, dolphins and many other animals can do this.)

If I hold up 5 objects and then another 5, they can count those and tell me in their language and number system how many objects I'm holding.

Those two things, addition and subtraction, are the foundation of math and even our most primitive societies and even mentally damaged people can understand and count. Any galactic civilization can count how many miles or kilometers or whackamoleinches one star is from another.

When you have addition and subtraction, you also have multiplication and division (multiplication is adding the same number a lot of times (12 x 84 means "add 84 to itself 12 times") and division is repeated subtraction of the same number.) It doesn't matter whether you're using a base 64 or base 72 system or a base 3.5 system... adding and multiplication and division and subtraction are still the same.

The measurement of a right angle is still the same and the way to derive it (remember agonizing over geometry?) is still the same whether you measure in degrees or decans or purplecows. Call it what you like, the process is still the same (find a flat line, draw a line perpendicular to it.) Even the ancient Egyptians had this one.


11. When Hoaxers Swipe Plot Elements from Stargate - Byrd

posted on 11-2-2006 at 11:17 AM (post id: 2007515) - single

When Hoaxers Swipe Plot Elements from Stargate

I'll come back and address some of the issues in a bit, but for now I want to move on to the field that I know most about and the field where -- although Anony-Hoaxer doesn't say much, he makes huge and obvious mistakes:

Anthropology... and linguistics... and by the way, the culture of the 1960's when I was growing up.

Let's go back to the team, which is said to consist of a varying number of individuals and they are either all male or one is a female who is also a linguist. And they are all scientists, except for the guards (whether or not the pilots are also scientists is not mentioned ... ditto the leader.)

Scientists capable of being sent off on teams by the military all have degrees (otherwise they're technicians, according to the government. Under current hiring standards the government actually won't hire you as a scientist unless you have at least a Master's -- but usually a PhD.

That's at least 6 years of college after a Bachelors, so it's a reasonable assumption that they're all between the ages of 24 and 34. They'd be military officers (Anony-Hoaxer says they come from different branches of the military.)

Two points stand out: This was the era of June Cleaver... of the stay-at-home mom where (as the older women on the board can tell you from PERSONAL experience) women were supposed to marry, hold only certain domestic/teaching jobs, and were NEVER assigned to an all-male unit and shipped abroad.

As scientists, their work was minimized in the main. Opportunities were few. Men didn't take orders from them. I heard Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper talk about life as a scientist in the Navy during the 1960's and how much trouble she had getting men to work with her as a colleague (several quit or threatened to quit rather than work for a woman.) Pilots in general (any former Vietnam nurses around?) were extremely (and often offensively) sexist. The military itself, while not as racist as the rest of the United States, was very conservative and very sexist.

It has, thank heavens, changed thanks to the work and efforts of men and women who came of age in the 1960's and 1970's-- though some of that had to be brought about by lawsuits over practices such as "Tailhook."

A single woman of that era being sent off with a team of men for ten years would have been treated as a prostitute -- unless she was the wife of one of the team. In the latter case, she would have been expected to stay at base, keep everyone's quarters clean, and bake cookies -- a perfect officer's wife, just like my mom and sister-in-law. Morale would, of course, sink to a new low as only one member of the team had access to sex (women who had affairs were treated as prostitutes, and the presence of a prostitute on the team would have led to violence and jealously.)

It doesn't take a Freud to see how dangerous the situation could get and how the interpersonal friction could destroy or compromise a mission or team.

In the "I swiped this bit from Stargate" world of Anony-Hoaxer, this never creeps in. As with "Star Trek" or any movies of the 1950's and early 1960's, the woman goes bounding off with the team, stands around looking pretty (when she's not "opening hailing frequencies"), falls in love with the manly lead, and screams her head off at bugs, aliens, and odd noises in between wandering around with a tricorder and looking thoughtful while the men do all the discovering.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

*************************************************************

12. When Hoaxers Get Their Stories Confused - Byrd


posted on 11-2-2006 at 12:55 PM (post id: 2007698) - single

When Hoaxers Get Their Stories Confused

So, let's talk about the linguists and the languages -- or, rather, "language specialists." Remember that the "team" is of officers and that they are cross-trained in sciences and that we have not one but TWO "language specialists."

"Language specialist" is, indeed, a government designated job. It is not a scientist (that's a linguist) but is rather someone who is such an expert in a language that they can translate "in real time" as the other person is speaking (like translators at the U.N.) : http://www.opm.gov/fedclass/gs1040.pdf

I haven't touched on the fact that there is more than one person being "Anonymous"... I'll get to that later. However, the Anonymous Party First Posting stated they sent along "language specialists"... therefore they have two people who speak fluent Eben, having learned it from goodole Ebe-1.

And "Anony-Hoaxer" should know what they were, right? After all, he says he's the team leader. He's in the military. He's used language services. Therefore he SHOULD know the difference between a "language specialist" and a liguist.

He doesn't.

Niether does Anonymous Hoaxer #2.

"Anonymous Hoaxer2" (referrred to henceforth as "Clown2"), who is a little more sophisticated and somewhat better educated (or watches a better class of movies) than Anony-Hoaxer one chimes in with this... I'll just quote it:
quote: There were two females, one being a doctor and the other being a linguist.

Clown2, unlike Anony-Hoaxer, figured out that 10 years without sex was implausible so he'd send along a team lifted from "Incredible Planet" and include a blonde and pliant physician along with a tastefully bosomed brunette who was a Real Linguist and not some goofball who happened to speak fluent Eben. Now the ratio's down to 8 guys and 2 women or even 10 guys and two women.

(I'm waiting for Anonymous Clown#3 to show up and announce that it was actually six married couples.)

So let's review what Anony-Hoaxer and Clown2 said:
quote:
quote: Although the Ebens couldn't speak English, they did make noises that our team members were able to translate into English. After five years, we had their language completely translated into English

quote: This was a gigantic problem, to say the least. It took our linguist specialists several years to adequately establish a form of communication with the Ebens. A group of Ebens learned to understand English and a few other Earth languages.


And then they wave the "YOU guys are special because we've chosen to reveal this to YOU and not to the whole world" flag to make sure you will find them credible.

They then sit back and smile, presenting this galactic civilization -- which has scientists of all stripes (and linguists -- remember they translated messages) and has computer equipment far beyond what we have today and devices we can't even imagine -- and this incredible advanced civilization can't understand English adequately.

Ordinary Chinese people can understand English with training and immersion. Ordinary Watusis are capable of understanding and speaking English with training. So can the K!ung. So can billions of other people who didn't grow up in English-speaking families.

The ordinary dog who lives in the household has been demonstrated to understand at least 150 different words, and trained dogs have been taught to understand over 300 words: http://abc.net.au/animals/program3/factsheet1.htm

And we're expected to believe wholeheartedly that the Ebens with their advanced technology and civilization can't do better than a couple of Labrador Retrievers and a parrot or two?
quote:
Eventually we crudely translated some of the languge.

...but they'd already translated enough to understand complex concepts like meeting, social structure,
quote: We started with simple items, for example, the flying object that they used to travel around their planet on. Then things like houses, roads, food, clothing, their suns, their planet, etc. Although we did establish some form of communication, it was crude and not always helpful for our Team when something complicated happened.


So, in spite of knowing enough of the language to enter into a formal agreement with this civilization, the team is not taught any language and is given "language specialists" who actually can't speak the language and/or linguists who take 5 years to figure out a language...

...when...

quote: BACKGROUND : Ebe #1 provided a communication device that allowed us to contact Serpo.
(etc)
With Ebe#1's assistance and language input, several signals were sent during the summer of 1952. In early fall of 1952, we received several signals on the device.
Ebe #1 translated the messages and provided us with that information. (etc)
— The fifth message suggested an exchange program

quote: Fearing that Ebe #1, who was sick at this point, did not translate the message correctly, our scientists began to translate the message, based on the Eben language that was taught to us by Ebe #1.


And... most importantly:
quote: Notably, "Project Aquarius," Volume IX, which pertains to tracing the alien's first visitation of Earth back some 5,000 years. EBE reported that 2,000 years ago, his ancestors planted a human creature on earth to assist the inhabitants of Earth in developing a civilization.



So, on the one hand we have a civilization that monitored ours for at least 5,000 years and who sent a representative to "help" us "develop a civilization" 2000 years ago. This would be at the time of the fall of Egypt, the waning of the Greek civilization, the height of the power of Rome, the powerful Han dynasty in China, the Olmecs in the Americas (along with the rise of the Anasazi, Iroquois tribes), etc, etc.

Furthermore, the representative spoke one or more of those languages (some tonal, some gutteral, with a variety of phonemes)... and spoke it fluently so he could communicate complex messages (you just KNOW they're setting it up to be Eben Representative=Jesus).

2,00 years later (during which they've been visiting us) they find that English is impossible to understand and they can't really translate it well... and in fact, the best they can do is translate around 500 words.

And yet....
quote: We did have visitors from nine other star systems.

The Grays, which some people characterize as being like the Ebens, were not. They came from a planet near Alpha Centauri A.

They can communicate and interact with nine other kinds of alien civilizations (and a 10th one that they destroyed)...

...but they can't figure out English.


It's that darn Planetary Stupidity Field at work again!

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

*************************************************************

13. More on those Darn Linguists and their interactions with the language. - Byrd

posted on 11-2-2006 at 01:11 PM (post id: 2007726) - single


More on those Darn Linguists and their interactions with the language.

As Clown2 and Anony-Hoaxer do NOT know, linguistics was in its heyday at the time period they're writing about. Edward T. Hall is doing some of his most brilliant work on cultures and how they deal with time and how cultures deal with the concept of personal space. Benjamin Whorf has died a decade before this, but Edward Sapir continues his work and Noam Chomsky is just getting started on his Universal Grammars. There are notable linguistics departments at the Ivy League schools, and the University of Chicago puts out so much research and theoretical work that it becomes associated with a whole branch of anthropological thinking: "The Chicago School."

Artificial languages such as Esperanto and Laadan are being created, and within 15 years. PhD linguist Marc Okrand would show up on the scene and develop artificial languages (REAL languages, folks) for the entertainment business: Klingon and Vulcan. These are not "english sentences spoken with funny combinations of words." They are real languages -- I won't go into the complexities, but you can google them up for yourself.

Linguists have translated writings in extinct languages, too.

But the Serpo linguists have apparently gotten their degrees by sending in cereal boxtops to Harry's All Night Degree Mill. When presented with a real-live specemin they manage to communicate enough to get the alien to agree to send along messages to his own civilization including contact information. They then lose all the data (or let the goats eat it) because the "training" for the Eben mission doesn't include any linguisitc immersion.

The "team" is back to square one.

Meanwhile, the galactic civilization that regularly deals with nine or more other intergalactic civilizations and that had figured out Roman/Greek/Egyptian/Chinese/Aramaic/etc some 2,000 years ago struggles like the dickens (ever since the first contact from EBE1 to say he's alive) and finally comes up with a dictionary of sorts containing a mere 500 words.

Some of which they get wrong.

And they can't figure out the sentence structure. However, weird sentence structures of other alien civilizations are No Problemo. The weird and funky grammars of our ancient languages are also No Problemo.

It's just English. English apparently creates its own Cosmic Stupidity Field.


14. When Big Bwana Meets Little Brown Brother - Byrd


posted on 12-2-2006 at 12:33 PM (post id: 2009485) - single

When Big Bwana Meets Little Brown Brother

Speaking as an anthropologist, one of the big implausabilities was the behavior of the Team Of Mail-Order Scientists and the aliens. Very specifically, the Team Of Mail-Order Scientists behave in a fashion we refer to as "colonial."

(If you like, look up "colonialism" under Google -- colonialism and India or Africa are good ones, but colonialism and any indigenous people such as the Maori or the AmerInd tribes is also good. Quite a deep field, as you can see. I'm only going to touch on a tiny bit of this, rather than go into the full details.)


Remember, we're dealing with members of an advanced alien civilization (think "Vulcans" or "Romulans" or even "Klingons" or "Ferengi" -- I use "Star Trek" simply because it's probably familiar to most people around the world.) They have a culture, laws, social rules, social structures of kinship, and they have technology and knowledge.

In the presence of Our Team Of Clowns, they behave as though they are the equivalent of our primitive tribal societies who are functionally illiterate and technologically in the "throwing rocks at each other" stage.

For example:
quote: Ebe2 is the smart one. She seems to understand our language more than 1 and 2. She even seems to understand our basic math. We started with the basic math. 2 plus 2. Then progressed on. She understood and even caught on so quick that she continued on without our help. We realize she has a great IQ when she repeated 1000 times 1000 and came up with an answer.


The humans treat her like a pet that has learned a new trick. This being is a sophisitcated member of an advanced society and a scientist -- depending on which message you are reading. Instead she's a marginally intelligent version of a Labrador Retriever. If she had a tail, she'd wag it.
quote: The leader of the Ebens is a larger creature than the others. He seems to be more aggressive than the other Ebens. When I write aggressive, I don't me in a hostile way. He seems to be the boss, similar to me, as the team commander.


Notice that Anony-Hoaxer announces that HE is the Commander of the Team Of Clowns. They get into a difference about the fate of the body of crewmember 308, and Anony-Hoaxer exerts his Colonial Determination and forces Eben-Leader to back down.

The Team is allowed free access as though they are lords of the planet.

There's no adjusting to their culture, adjusting to their ways... in fact, they take along weapons (travel within the society, armed) and bang away at the local fauna, which upsets the Ebens but Our Team gets around this somehow.

Big Bwana meets Little Brown Brother. The Ebens do all the conceding or most of it and Our Team sets all the rules of interchange.

[dankk]

The following information comes from the ATS website. The thread was started by sdrumrunner and is followed by Byrd's series of writings: Go HERE for the complete thread.

*************************************************************

15. Vile, Contemptable, Despicable, Dishonorable... - Byrd

posted on 13-2-2006 at 12:47 AM (post id: 2010680) - single

Vile, Contemptable, Despicable, Dishonorable...

And now we come to the nastiest, most despicable, dishonorable, vile and loathesome part of the whole hoax -- using scientist Carl Sagan as an "appeal to authority."

Their actions are beyond contempt at this point. In this repugnant attempt to cover all the holes in their stupid story (which started coming apart at the seams as many posters noted with the very first post), they offer up to us as sacrifice a man who is loved by many and who is very conveniently dead.

Who can't stand up for himself and say "You wretched little men are beyond contempt and the idea that I would associate myself with such a blatant hoax is beyond belief."

I'll stand up for Sagan, though.

Let me note what these scum said about Sagan:
quote: 2) One of the principal home-based scientists (astronomer) contracted to assist us was Dr. Carl Edward Sagan. Initially, he was the biggest skeptic of the group. But as information was slowly analyzed, Dr. Sagan came back to the middle. I can't say he fully accepted every single piece of data, but he did agree on the final report.


They play on Sagan's well-known stance as a skeptic (he authored Demon Haunted World )and then expect us to believe that this PhD polymath was SOMEHOW changed from a skeptic into someone who "agreed on the final report" -- in spite of the holes that even people without advanced degrees are pointing out.

I've hit only the highlights of the most inane points of the whole hoax; others who have a better background in physics and math than I have shredded it even further and no doubt geologists could hammer at it still further. Yet these odious, cowardly hoaxers want you to believe that somehow Sagan managed to forget all those problems and "signed off" on the final product....

...Sagan, who was friends with many eminent scientists of far better caliber than I am or the skeptics posting on the list and who could (unlike me) wade through Differential Equations and complex maths and physics.

...Sagan, who analyzed folklore and mythology and hoaxers.

...Sagan, who knew and was friends with some notable science fiction authors (including, I believe, Issac Asimov who held a PhD in biochemistry.)

Victor Martinez buys into this wholeheartedly:
quote: CONNECTING THE DOTS: "Project SERPO's" final report was written in 1980 with Dr Sagan having been brought in half way through the project. It is believed that he wrote his 1985 bestseller, CONTACT, based on his insider knowledge of the most secret project in human history: a human-alien exchange program of which he signed off on its final report!


Martinez has apparently never reead CONTACT, though he may have watched the movie version of it.

Sagan, as I said, knew scifi writers and knew editors. He had friends that he talked to about his book. To connect the dots, simply talk to these people and to his widow, Ann Druyan (who produced Contact and cowrote several of his books as well as producing ), and you'll find out very quickly that the idea that Sagan "borrowed/fictionalized" Serpo to write CONTACT is beyond stupid.

Anony-Hoaxer continues his shabby and repugnant lies:
quote: After reading Dr. Sagan's remarks on the Serpo project, which is about 60 jam-packed pages of calculations, I found one paragraph which states that in order to use Kepler's law – in the case of Planet Serpo – one had to vary the exact gravitational pull placed on Serpo by the two suns. Serpo did not have large planets, like Jupiter and Saturn to affect the gravitational pull as the Earth does. Serpo's gravitational pull was different than anything Dr. Sagan had ever seen before.


This was Anony-Hoaxer's lame attempt to answer a point raised by someone who actually knew some astronomy and dumped the math at Anony-Hoaxer. This despicable liar then tries to cover save his hoax by appealing to Sagan as Authority -- Sagan who is dead and can't defend himself by using one of the lamest attempts to weasel out of any "gotcha" :
quote: in order to use Kepler's law – in the case of Planet Serpo – one had to vary the exact gravitational pull placed on Serpo by the two suns


Fortunately, this disgusting little liar has no real idea what he's talking about. Sagan would not have used Newtonian/Keplarian physics in studying a three-body or m-body system with a possible erratic orbit... he would have hotfooted to CalTech with the data and discussed with Thorne and others whether it was preferable to do a variable time-step Runge Kutta and how to map the data onto a Poincaré section.

Actually, he would have had the Ebens contacted and asked their scientists and mathemeticians about the formulas and would have presented this new study in mathematics (remember, he had a strong ego and loved the spotlight) to the world. We would have had a whole new subbranch in cosmology and mathematics, and it would have had Sagan's name on it.

This is the kind of homework that hoaxers can't do. Anony-Hoaxer, who apparently is pathological liar, can't produce any semblance of what Sagan really would have said because there are no formulas.

And, of course, evidence that this is a huge lie exists in other forms, because Sagan (as does any scientist) left behind boxes of letters and journals of notes along with other manuscripts and his exchanges with Kip Thorne and his students at Caltech (who worked out the formulas for the wormhole used in CONTACT) -- they're all still around. This is demonstrated by the 2005 book by Tom Head which reproduces some of the Sagan material.

But Anony-Hoaxer and Clown#2, who have no real integrity are completely unaware that this huge body of work exists. As far as they know, scientists die and nobody keeps their letters and the mysterious Archive Fairy shows up and shreds all their notebooks and research files at the instant of their deaths.

The Sagan section of this scam ends that with the truly pathetic effort to make a Believer out of everyone:
quote: There are numerous figures and calculations to support this. I will forward them at a later date. Have your list stay tuned.


And, of course, he fails to do that because (as I said) someone on the list turned out to have a decent background in astronomy/physics and math and started poking holes in his precious little hoax.

It was at that point that he started running with his tail between his legs. That's why he only wants to talk with true believers -- they won't ask to see the 30 pages of math that he says Dr. Sagan produced.


In conclusion...

Anony-Hoaxer is a despicable, pathological liar who puts out hoaxes for his own egotistic satisfaction, to see how many people will fall for it. The Cadre of Clowns who hop out of the woodwork to add their own fantasies to the whole filthy swamp of lies should be drummed out of the human race. It has been suggested that one or more of them has a financial angle here, hoping to sell a book of lies that will be a "best seller" because of the hype here on the Internet.

With this, I'll bring my analysis to a close... though there's still more that can be addressed. But I'm tired now, and I'm going to rest.


I hope that my analysis will enable some of the readers to spot the pathological liars like Anony-Hoaxer and the Pack Of Clowns and that the next time one of them comes out of the woodowrk to fabricate another fable at the world, that my readers will stop, check, and analyze, and then stand up and point fingers at the Liar and the Clowns and shout, "SHAME!!! Shame on you all!!!"

[edit on 13-2-2006 by Byrd]

[dankk]

Whew! What a ride huh? What a great amount of information there as well! It is a fun read IMHO and I hope that you all have enjoyed those writings as much as I and several others I know of have.

I may put more thoughts from Byrd here later (of course, with proper credits given as well). He has more points that I didnt put here because I wanted this series all to do with one thing only. The Serpo story. Some writings may be part of it, but this ladies and gentlemen is the meat and potatoes of the series. A very well written series indeed Byrd! Thank you for taking the time to make these posts. I really appreciated your thoughts and ideas.

Regards,

Dankk

[I.P.Freely]

Dankk I don,t mean to insult you but come on now you really hold all that babbling in high esteem. I know you must be thinking wth is he talking about (meaning me) and To tell you the truth I only read very little of it .I really just have better things to do with my time.

This byrd guy began losing me as soon as he made the stupid assumtion that just because the geologist in the story are mapping serpo for themselves that the eben were unable to do it themselfs. Well where did he come up with that pulled it out of the air I guess seeing it was never said or implied in the story the ebens did not or could not do this themselfs. And It would seem logical that the humans would find it easier to map the planet themselfs considering the problem with communication would it not..

If you want I can show you more if I find some time to waste bottom line is IMO thisguy is talking alot while saying nothing. I hope you don,t take this as anything agaist you dankk cause I don,t mean it that way IPF

[dankk]

IPF, I somehow knew that you would be replying here sooner or later. lol Welcome is all i can say!

Please show us all what you think about all of it.

Before that, I hope that you will read all of it to gain everything from this you can before replying. It is truly an enlightening group of writings IMHO.

Write all you care to friend. I look forward to what you thoughts are on this.

Regards,

Dankk

ps. Dont get lost on just one part of one thing by one person. Read it all (take notes) and then make your assesment my friend. I will welcome it.

[Springer]

Dankk:

While I appreciate you quoting our forum and one of our staffers, it certainly seems redundant to reproduce whole posts, not to mention it's in violation of the CreativeCommons Deed we copyright our content with.

That being said, if Zep doesn't mind the use of his bandwidth for redundant posts I don't really have a problem with our content being reproduced completely (rather than the first few paragraphs and a link per the CC Deed license) here on RU.

Springer...

[dankk]

Springer,

I really like this information and thought it would be nice for it to be here as well in its entirety. There are some who may never go to the ATS forum to see it.

I will delete the posts if you want me to. No offense to ATS or the members there for this posting. It is really just that good to be here and there imho.

Whatever you want me to do I will do.

Respectfully,

Dankk

[ryguy]

I agree Dankk, it's some great reading and a good example of critical thinking.

Don't worry - you haven't done anything wrong here, it took me a while to completely understand how to properly comply with the CC deed license myself. While Springer is being kind with his permission to post in its entirety, I believe SkepticOverlord is a little more of a stickler for the CC license - so we should probably follow the same rules every other forum has to follow in quoting other posts on ATS.

When you get a chance, just go back and edit each post to ensure it is a link and then an excerpt of several paragraphs (as Springer described in his post). That way people can read the excerpt to get a feel for the post, and then click on the link if they are interested in reading the entire post.

It's good to set an example for other forums out there who have failed to follow the legal guidelines of the CC license. Plus, it helps in a cooperative effort to generate traffic for each forum. ATS has allowed the same kind of linking to our forum from ATS, so it's good to recipricate when we can. We expect the same from other forums, so it's best to lead by example. Thanks!

-Ry