Aviary Threats In Response to our Update?

[Access Denied]

If the government uncovered a cult that actually had the ability to create a repeatable unexplainable phenomenon:

1. Wouldn't they consider this a serious threat?

If it actually worked.

2. Wouldn't they prefer to understand the phenomenon and use it for their own purposes?

If it actually worked.

RV'ing is a good example, of course...

…of a scam that turned out to be a huge waste of taxpayer’s money.

http://www.skepdic.com/remotevw.html

[caryn]

…of a scam that turned out to be a huge waste of taxpayer’s money.

http://www.skepdic.com/remotevw.html

R.P will love you for that one

I wouldn't be so certain that it was scam though.

[Zep Tepi]

RV'ing is a good example, of course...with techniques culled from one of the most dangerous cults of the 70's and 80's. Go to the beginnings and "source" of the cult, and one starts to appreciate the problem the PtB might have gotten themselves into.

Actually Ry - RVing techniques were around long before Scientology and SRI - but by another name.

Exactly Caryn. This is one of the things Ryan and I were discussing recently. These techniques, and - to a lesser extent - the "jist" of some of the [core] stories have been around for donkey's years. With the passing of time and the addition of new personalities, new bits are added and other bits taken away. The core however remains essentially the same.

Cheers,
Zep

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Yes, Ray, and you are one of these.

This assessment brought to you by the man who wants others to accept him as the new "minimal" messiah. Dan, if you knew what condition I was recently diagnosed with you would understand that having bunches of people "following" or otherwise pestering me would be the last thing I would want.

You may not intend to, but you always keep me amused, Dan.

Ray

[dan]

I can't be faulted for not trying.....but probably not hard enough. I do have a lazy streak.

Condition?


...

[Access Denied]

I wouldn't be so certain that it was a scam though.

Why’s that? I trust you read the arguments against it at the link I gave?

If Stargate hadn’t been a scam you’d think the Psychic Army would have found Osama by now and told us there were no WMD in Iraq no?

[ryguy]

Actually Ry - RVing techniques were around long before Scientology and SRI - but by another name.

I didn't say our government invented RVing techniques - I referred to where they learned them from. SRI techniques (Swann's) went into the DIA's later research, Fort Meade, and on...

Say....does it work? Great question AD

According to Pandolfi - it is used operationally. One example he gave was the identification of some boats that apparently drug-runners were using to bring drugs into the country.

Me: "Oh! So you're saying RV'ing works then?"
Ron: "I didn't say that...."

lol....you figure it out.

I'm not suggesting it works, I'm asking either way, Is it ok for the government to dabble in the Occult / Shamanism in order to try to maintain advantage over foreign governments?

Wet - you're focusing on the question regarding whether the phenomenon works, or whether religion itself had or has any value. The question is how do you feel about the PtB sitting around a fire holding hands humming - trying to remote view the coordinates of North Korea's nuclear facilities...or better yet trying to stop the heart of a foreign leader?

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I won't share my view on that, because it doesn't matter whether I believe it works or not. The real question is - should our government be dabbling in the occult, period. There are a few who likely would see no problem with it (the occult). But I would wager a larger portion of the population would have significant problem with it. And the PtB know that.

-Ry

[dan]

Access,

…of a scam that turned out to be a huge waste of taxpayer’s money.

Yes, that is an over-simplification.

Indications are that the program continues under stricter controls. Can the phenomenologists afford to be caught flat-footed?

Ron never said it didn’t work. Only that it wasn’t working under those conditions. He was the one who shut it down. It may also be a matter of competition from outsiders.

…

[dan]

AD is blythefully unaware that rp evidently had prior knowledge of 9/11.

Indicating that Osama is in the loop, one way or another. With that high level loop, no need to have too many other prying 'eyes'.

[wetsystems]

The August 6th, 2001 Presidential Briefing (which Bush and his resident genius, Rice, apparently ignored) stated the same things- the results of 'normal' intelligence collections. It never required a gang of voodoo magicians to uncover that basic truth. I'm sure that AD is blithefully aware of this as is everyone who reads the news- except perhaps, you.

[wetsystems]

Wet - you're focusing on the question regarding whether the phenomenon works, or whether religion itself had or has any value. The question is how do you feel about the PtB sitting around a fire holding hands humming - trying to remote view the coordinates of North Korea's nuclear facilities...or better yet trying to stop the heart of a foreign leader?

How do I feel about it? Not good. The NAZIs had a similar esoteric program. Read about it here: http://www.cafes.net/ditch/motm1.htm

Buy the book if you can find it.

[dan]

Wet,

Have you bought into Scientific Materialism?


...

[caryn]

And do take note of this paragraph:

‘Here the reader is at the birth of a persistent modern "myth": That Nazism is the product of occult doctrine. To be fair, the authors were not saying that the Order of the Golden Dawn was a proto-Nazi group. Nor were they suggesting a positive link. "Looking for affiliations is a game, like looking for 'influences' in literature," they warn. "When the game is over, the problem is still there." This hasn't stopped writers who followed from trying to make affiliations stick. None of them have been able to come up with much evidence that would convince an exacting historian.’ ...Emphasis mine.

[wetsystems]

Good to see that I've been useful in bridging the religious divisions between you two. But I still feel that religion per se is irrelevant to this discussion. My use of the NAZIS was simply to demonstrate that esoteric paradigms are (almost) always made of whole (speculative) cloth based on predispositions and presuppositions. RV is an esoteric exercise. As such it is at best, Voodoo- and at worst, abject dissemblage- to coin a word.

As to the book "Morning of the Magicians," I could only find this review. It's unfortunately out of print and the Amazon link didn't work. What's a man to do? It's a good read if you can track it down.

NAZIS will always be NAZIS, unfortunately. It's socio-genetic. Know what I mean?

Try as he might, even George Bush Jr. could not resist his genes. See what I mean? Where were our RV saviors when we needed 'em? - Or are they 'of them?'

The Pods are everywhere.

Do I have any friends? Or am I condemned to pounding on the door of a 1955 Buick?

Let me know.\

[caryn]

But I still feel that religion per se is irrelevant to this discussion.

Well, that makes at least two of us.

As to the book "Morning of the Magicians," I could only find this review. It's unfortunately out of print and the Amazon link didn't work. What's a man to do? It's a good read if you can track it down.

I have a copy - and need I say, I have gone several steps further, or should that be deeper? in 30+ years....

Do I have any friends? Or am I condemned to pounding on the door of a 1955 Buick?

We're all friends here - aren't we?