Is the Bible simply a book?

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Is the Bible simply a book?

Postby Chorlton » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:01 pm

Sorry but to me the Bible is simply a book, to base any assumptions or beliefs on a book is to me total lunacy. To also consider that millions if not billions of people lead their lives by that book I also find alarming.

Its simply a book with no more credibility in it than a book by, say Von Daniken

Sorry its my opinion.
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Postby ryguy » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:44 pm

Why would you accept historical accounts from thousands of other authors throughout history who have told various stories about their particular period of history - yet frown upon a reading and believing stories in a book that is essentially another historical account offered by various individuals from ages ago.

While I agree with you regarding how literally some people might read these accounts - I disagree that there's no value or that there's zero historical authenticity to the accounts. And as far as basing a belief system on those accounts - people choose to believe autobiographical accounts of history all the time. We all choose who's story we believe - so yeah...as a whole, there is a large population of people who've decided to believe these accounts.

As far as I'm concerned, the bible has just as much value in providing us historical accounts as does any other autobiography that has been offered throughout the ages.

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Postby ScaRZ » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:02 pm

Chorlton wrote:Sorry but to me the Bible is simply a book, to base any assumptions or beliefs on a book is to me total lunacy. To also consider that millions if not billions of people lead their lives by that book I also find alarming.

Its simply a book with no more credibility in it than a book by, say Von Daniken

Sorry its my opinion.


You have a right to your opinion Chorlton as I have a right to mine. If you think of me as a lunatic for valuing scripture you aren't the first and certainly will not be the last. If I'm wrong on my belief in God and the scriptures then when it's all said and done,I will have lost nothing.

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Postby Chorlton » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:06 am

No sir, please dont think I consider you a lunatic. As you stated, everyone is entitled to their beliefs and ideas. I was simply voicing mine as I think there are people who read these forums and dont post and they might get the idea that everyone thinks alike.

I made my stand quite clear when I went to senior school.
for the first 2 years I accepted the dogmatic school Religious instruction. Then at the beginning of the 3rd year we were all handed Bibles and told to read.
I simply looked at the teacher and asked "Am I expected to believe this". I was thrown out of the class and for the rest of my school days had no more religious Instruction lessons, doing science instead.

To me the Bible is like an Internet Book. Someone writes a few lines or paragraphs then passes it on to someone else. Then the Highly Religious lads pick it up and see it as a means of control of the people. It worked.

My other point is that people are quoting from the scriptures and the bible and accepting it as if it was true. It isnt, Its a Novel.

As with UFO's etc, if people claim that certain things from the Bible are true then provide proof.
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Postby Access Denied » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:49 am

Chorlton wrote:Sorry but to me the Bible is simply a book, to base any assumptions or beliefs on a book is to me total lunacy. To also consider that millions if not billions of people lead their lives by that book I also find alarming.

Well, I don’t think the majority of people who believe in the Bible are harming themselves or anyone else by doing so do you? It’s only when that belief inspires (through “institutionalized” reinterpretation?) righteousness and intolerance for other’s beliefs that it becomes an “alarming” problem in my opinion… or when it (or any other “belief system” for that matter) is used as a tool to control others by those who don’t “practice what they preach” in order to serve their own selfish interests.

Chorlton wrote:Its simply a book with no more credibility in it than a book by, say Von Daniken

That may be true but can you deny it’s what some people need… something “tangible” to believe in? Can you honestly say you’ve got a better “idea” to replace it with for those that do and are you then prepared to become their new leader? Not everyone wants to “be their own boss”… some are simply more comfortable with “following” somebody else’s “lead” and I don’t see anything wrong with following Jesus. Certainly the “core” of his teachings speak to a Universal truth many can agree on… as I believe those of many other spiritual leaders have throughout history.

Also, don't forget that the US was founded on the principle of freedom of religion... and by the same token we are free not to believe.
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Postby Chorlton » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:07 am

AD said:
"Well, I don’t think the majority of people who believe in the Bible are harming themselves or anyone else by doing so do you? It’s only when that belief inspires (through “institutionalized” reinterpretation?) righteousness and intolerance for other’s beliefs that it becomes an “alarming” problem in my opinion"
My point exactly. Institutions and some individuals used The Bible and the religion it inspired in its strictest sense to impose their wills upon others.

"That may be true but can you deny it’s what some people need… "

Failing anything else..... no. but those people would follow and believe anything, anyone.

"something “tangible” to believe in? Can you honestly say you’ve got a better “idea” to replace it with for those that do and are you then prepared to become their new leader? "

Its always puzzled me why people need a leader. 2000 years ago I can see why, they were downtrodden, dumped on at every turn, but now? Nope.
Its why I see no need for a monarchy or even a President, other than to use as a whipping boy when things go tits up.

"Not everyone wants to “be their own boss”… some are simply more comfortable with “following” somebody else’s “lead” and I don’t see anything wrong with following Jesus. "

I see it wrong that people should follow anyone, but I also see that some people have a need to do so.

"Certainly the “core” of his teachings speak to a Universal truth many can agree on… as I believe those of many other spiritual leaders have throughout history. "

Truth ? wheres the proof any of it was truth? Lots of platitudes "Love thy neighbour" "turn the other cheek" but words and 'truths' like that were responsible for people being murdered.

Religion was, and still is used as a weapon and to control people.
How can a man like a Pope tell African catholics that Contraception is a sin?

To me the whole idea of a God and of someone being crucified and being resurrected is as ephemeral as UFO's and Aliens.
And, on the same tack, if someone suggests or proposes anything related to the Bible, God or Jesus, the same controls be used as would be so with any claims. Provide proof. There is none.

I propose there is no God and will wheel out the old answers.
It is written that we are supposedly Gods children.
What parent would let his children suffer as our supposed God does?

THE LORD THY GOD IS A JEALOUS GOD ?
So he had his failings too then?? Jealousy? Hmmmmmmm I thought that was a human trait, not something from someone so powerfull and all seeing.

And then we have creationism. I would postulate that if you believe in the Big Bang theory or of Darwin, then you cant believe in God. They arent compatible.

Sorry the whole thing just dont work and doesnt add up.
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Postby ryguy » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:06 pm

Chorlton wrote:"That may be true but can you deny it’s what some people need… "

Failing anything else..... no. but those people would follow and believe anything, anyone.


Oh really? lol

Its always puzzled me why people need a leader. 2000 years ago I can see why, they were downtrodden, dumped on at every turn, but now? Nope.
Its why I see no need for a monarchy or even a President, other than to use as a whipping boy when things go tits up.


For the sake of clarity, when it comes to my own personal beliefs, I only consider Jesus as "leader" in terms of leading by example. But leader is really a poor description of what he represents to millions and millions across the world.

Better words would be friend, supporter, encouragement, and a tour guide through an otherwise disrespectful, nasty, and cruel world.

"Not everyone wants to “be their own boss”… some are simply more comfortable with “following” somebody else’s “lead” and I don’t see anything wrong with following Jesus. "

I see it wrong that people should follow anyone, but I also see that some people have a need to do so.


Following someone's example and following orders are two different things - and that's an important distinction you might try to differentiate if you're attempting to understand those who believe that Jesus was who he said he was.

Religion was, and still is used as a weapon and to control people.
How can a man like a Pope tell African catholics that Contraception is a sin?


Because he's a man running a human institution. And institutional religion has certainly been used to control (and sometimes enslave) entire societies. However there's a huge difference between human-created institutional belief, and the core writings and testimonies that were written on these scrolls over two thousand years ago.

And, on the same tack, if someone suggests or proposes anything related to the Bible, God or Jesus, the same controls be used as would be so with any claims. Provide proof. There is none.


Well...at least we have real scrolls with real writing on it. That's a heck of a lot more than the pieces of UFO that UFO/Alien believers don't have. At least it's something real to look at and debate.

I propose there is no God and will wheel out the old answers.
It is written that we are supposedly Gods children.
What parent would let his children suffer as our supposed God does?


My children suffer often - especially when they ask for things that simply aren't good for them, yet they don't realize it. When I say no - they get angry too.

And sometimes - I will let them make poor choices and learn some hard lessons on their own. Sure - they may blame me for the consequences, but I've heard somewhere that suffering builds character.

As far as natural things that hurt people, such as disease, illness, natural catastrophes....those are questions everyone asks and is one of the most difficult things to understand. I'd certainly like to understand why a 28 year old woman with two small children would be lying on her deathbed from ovarian cancer.

The only answer I can fathom in my pea-brain is this. We each are handed a lot in life that "god" believes we are capable of using to lift up ourselves as an example to what true honorable living represents. Those who suffer the most, or are inflicted the most with illness or hardship represent the elite few whom apparently god believes are strong enough to handle and stand as a testament to the inherent greatness that resides in the human soul. God is essentially "good" - and we should allow that to shine in everything that we say or do...and if we're afflicted, yet still shine? Now what does that say about the power of good over evil?

I've had a good life, and maybe as far as god is concerned, that's all I can handle. But right now I look around me at family and friends and I see people who God has entrusted a great deal more responsibility in terms of hardship and illness - and I have great respect for those who stand up and shine, not lay down and attack god himself for the burden that they've been handed. Not sure I'd have that strength either...but I'm so amazed and inspired by those who do.

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Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:42 pm

ryguy wrote:
And, on the same tack, if someone suggests or proposes anything related to the Bible, God or Jesus, the same controls be used as would be so with any claims. Provide proof. There is none.


Well...at least we have real scrolls with real writing on it. That's a heck of a lot more than the pieces of UFO that UFO/Alien believers don't have. At least it's something real to look at and debate.


Ahhh, but Ryan, we do have the SERPO "scrolls"! :lol: The point is, as I know you well know, that just because someone wrote something down does not go ONE IOTA towards proof. I have pointed out before that the myth of the "Virgin Birth" is not unique to Christianity, and it was most certainly borrowed from earlier traditions. (Where do you think Horus came from?) :) The fact that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and even John may have written that Jesus was born of a virgin does not make it so.

I agree with you on the example that the alleged Jesus provides for us. That is the best that anyone can do...set an example.

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Postby Chorlton » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:44 pm

Nice words Ry but we'll have to agree to disagree.

Now...what about politics??


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Postby Access Denied » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:47 pm

ryguy wrote:For the sake of clarity, when it comes to my own personal beliefs, I only consider Jesus as "leader" in terms of leading by example. But leader is really a poor description of what he represents to millions and millions across the world.

Better words would be friend, supporter, encouragement, and a tour guide through an otherwise disrespectful, nasty, and cruel world.

My bad, you're right that was a poor analogy. This is why I normally try to avoid theological debate like the plague… I tend to oversimplify things too much and I quickly find out I don’t know what I’m talking about. :) “Guide” seems much more appropriate.

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Postby Chorlton » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:56 pm

The exit is, as Snagglepuss said;
"Stage Left'

That REALLY ages me doesnt it? :cry:
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Postby ScaRZ » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:56 pm

The Shining One (Satan) tried to tempt Jesus into proving his faith. Never think you have to prove your faith to anyone.
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Postby Chorlton » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:57 pm

ScaRZ wrote:The Shining One (Satan) tried to tempt Jesus into proving his faith. Never think you have to prove your faith to anyone.


No one has to prove their faith to me.
Just the existance of God will do fine.
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Postby ScaRZ » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:10 pm

Chorlton wrote:No one has to prove their faith to me.
Just the existance of God will do fine.


No man can.

That would come only from God drawing you first, then opening up your heart to understanding.
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Postby ryguy » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:21 pm

ScaRZ wrote:
Chorlton wrote:No one has to prove their faith to me.
Just the existance of God will do fine.


No man can.

That would come only from God drawing you first, then opening up your heart to understanding.


Once again - Scarz says in one sentence what I couldn't say in twenty.

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