ATS Hoax Involvement?

[Springer]

@Torbjon...

Wow, i never asked or much less expected you to "sympathise" nor did I ever ask you to change anything about your "core self" man. I only asked that if you want me to read what you have to say then give me a condensed version as I have very limited time for this, fair enough... if you refuse don't get mad at me for missing most of it.

the rest is well, the rest I reckon...

S...

[torbjon]

Springer:

huh? Not mad at all comrade, exact opposite actually, Very Glad you are here.

If you don't have time to read, you don't have to read, no skin off my nose and I am Not offended or ticked in any way, shape or form.

But you Are getting the 'condensed version', each and every post, that's as tight as I can edit it. Sorry.

You've asked that I change my writing style (who I am) to better facilitate your needs, desires and time constraints. I explained why I Couldn't... not wouldn't. Couldn't. Sorry.

And you asked things like "look at it from our perspective" and "Imagine you were [in my shoes]" etc... some folks might interpret that as a cry for sympathy... (oh woe is me, life is so hard, please take pity, I'm so tired, stretched so thin, trying so hard blah blah yadda yadda)

Well, okay, I empathize completely, I Fully understand, I'm in the same boat, actually, no, I feel my boat may be a little leakier than yours *laughs*

But I find those types of comments to be rather whiney pleas for some type of forgiveness and rather poor excuses for whatever.

YES, it's hard. Very very hard. I don't have to Imagine how hard it is for you as I am There man, I'm There Too... and I AM looking at it from your perspective. I believe that I have given you the benefit of the doubt at every turn, and have been playing quite fairly since the get go.... with the exception that now this post is getting long winded so I will stop now. How fair is That *grins*

Again thank you for being here, your presence is Greatly Appreciated.

take care (and get some rest if you can... at least a little sunshine)
twj

[Springer]

Torbjon..

It;s all good, there was a communication breakdown online, can you IMAGINE THAT?!

My "whiney" requests weren't for sympathy, quite the OPPOSITE... they were for empathy, and/or they were for nothing at all for those who read them and have a cushy job with bennies and no pressure and never ventured out on their own wits with everything to lose in the offing.

Yes I bet your boat is leaky, to the extreme, ALL boats built by men who are just getting started ARE leaky my man, grab a bucket and BAIL WATER! We did and I am confident that if what you are creating has a market, you will get where you need to be just like we(The Above Network, LLC - ATS) did.

If it doesn't have a market you won't, I've been there too but I had THREE kids, two in diapers then so I can empathize with you too. Fewkin' AMAZING how much we are all the same when we sit down and TALK like civilized folk... isn't it?

Anyway, yeah... I would never ask you or anyone else to change who you/they are I only asked for the transfer rate of data to be as efficient as possible due to my own, selfish desire for sleep and food.

I hope you succeed in the grandest of ways with your theatre venture, I spend lots of time in NYC and know a few people in that business and it IS hell to get ahead in so, while I totally feel for you, I also suspect you'll break through just when you are positive you are DONE FOR.

It's funny how that works.

PEACE...

mark...

[torbjon]

Springer:

Ya baby, SALT!

Don't tear down the wall, just, you know, Limit a few missiles via Talks, it's good for everybody...

Now then, about getting your site to endorse and link to this site... seriously. I tossed that at SO a few pages back but I think he missed it in the long windedness of my style.

I have NOT discussed this concept with Anyone here, ever. I don't know if they like it, hate it, or hate ME for even Thinking it. It was a late night brain fart I had the other day but I think it's good one.

There's Always going to be these types of issues going on with your place...

Third party 'watch dog' type organizations really are Good for everyone (even those being watched)

There's enough 'disgruntled ex ats' members over here to (hopefully) instill a high level of trust and respect with Future 'disgruntled ats' members...

What better place to, um, air their wares so speak?

And yes, your Staff is too busy for long winded round abouts, but c'mon, you got what? A million members? And some of them are trusted and respected by You, 'ell, they may even have 'faces' *grins*

So? Give Them brownie points to do the leg work, edit the long windedness down to byte sized chunks for you... You guys personally stop in from time to time to address issues, stir things up, etc.

Good for ats, Good for ru, Good for the World.

I'm pretty sure this concept will really tick off some ru folks, but Honestly? I'd be a worthless two faced sack o' crap if I didn't actually Practice what I Preach, ya know? (see my few posts in Politics forum and continued references to Strategic Arms Limitation Treaties)

SALT baby, SALT

getting long winded, I go now.

twj

[ryguy]

I'm pretty sure this concept will really tick off some ru folks, but Honestly? I'd be a worthless two faced sack o' crap if I didn't actually Practice what I Preach, ya know? (see my few posts in Politics forum and continued references to Strategic Arms Limitation Treaties)

I can't see why on earth anything you've written would tick anyone here off. Makes a good deal of sense to me...

-Ry

[torbjon]

Hi Ry,

Not saying that this applies to anyone Here, but sometimes folks get a little too personally involved in things... phrases like vendetta, ax to grind, blind with rage, etc. come to mind *shrugs* Sometimes those feelings can cloud judgement, tha's all. Again, NOT that that applies to anyone here, just never can tell, ya know?

I fully Feel that ats has some problems and that there are some questionable practices going on over there...

And that, whereas Nuking them off the face of the earth is indeed One solution to those problems, I also Feel that there May be a more productive / constructive less destructive solution to those problems.

I'm not privvy to all of the details but I am under the impression that ats has some deep pocket investors who are determined to fullfill the business goal of becoming a large multi media outlet.

To fight a bush war would require some equally deep pockets, and nobody every seems to really 'win' in a bush war. Total global warfare is incredibly expensive too, and despite the groovy spin off technologies nobody really 'wins' there, either....

Glasnost and perestroika seem more prudent to me... but not everybody was for those policies *shrugs*

Anyway, I think it would be awesome for BOTH ats and ru if RU could become the place for airing 'dirty laundry'.

I firmly believe that ats IS going to become 'something' no matter what we or anyone else does... maybe even 'something big'... I feel we have an opportunity here to have a finger in what that something is...

That could be misconstrued as 'help' by some folks... folks who may not wish to 'help' them...

On the one hand it IS help, but on the other it's NOT.

I see it more as part of the artistic collaborative process... you bust your buns to create what (to you) is a beautiful work of art, then some other (equally talented) artist comes in waves the brush around, cuts some text and rewrites some lines, messes with Your Baby...

And that Hurts. It's Hard. Nobody wants to have their baby messed with.

I feel that they all are a little to close to the process to be as objective as they need to be. And I feel that the very real Need to generate profit sometimes blinds them.

Honest collaboration is one the most mature, and hardest, things to do on this planet...

Sooo much easier to destroy than create, ya know?

A lot of folks are ticked at what ats is Becoming...

Well, currently, it's only Becoming... why not 'help' it become something we can Like again?

I don't think we (or at least I) can do that over there... we (or I) would be too close to the process, with too much of ourselves invested in it to be as objective as we (I) need to be...

I'm getting long winded again, huh? *laughs*

Basically Shawnna was the one I was most concerned about. She's spent a great deal of personal time, energy, effort (all of which equates to Money) in developing a variety of exposés and I don't want to derail or belittle those... they Need to be aired.

Ats needs to be aware that that IS the type of work that is going to be going on here...

They can spend time energy Money trying to Fight it...

OR....

They can spend Less time energy Money and Embrace it *shrugs*

Ultimately the choice is theirs.

Duty is about to mix milk and ketchup together...
I gotta go
twj

[Shawnna]

For whatever reason, I've never been very good at sitting back and watching those with obviously less-than-honorable intentions take advantage of others. This not-so-attractive quality first manifested itself in kindergarten when I socked a bigger kid because he was making fun of someone.



In the case of ATS, I'm sure it could be interpreted as an "ax to grind" kind of effort but I honestly don't have any 'ax' at all. I simply can't stand anyone who thinks their s^~t doesn't stink because of the money in their wallet or the 'fame' they believe they may have achieved - especially when it has been done on the backs of the naive and those who are easily exploited.

[Access Denied]

Couldn't agree more... it's a curse.

[ryguy]

**BUMP**

[Shawnna]

Thanks for bumping Ry.





This thread is the most useful thread for understanding what's involved in this "ATS Watch" effort.

[torbjon]

Why would ATS feel the need to watermark an image to begin with? Why does ATS believe it needs to have exclusive rights to the posts by it's members?

First, we don't have the exclusive rights... our terms and conditions state:

3) Content Copyright: By posting on this message board, you relinquish all exclusive copyright privileges to the material you post and you grant The Owners non-exclusive rights to publish your posts in perpetuity in all forms protected under our ATS Creative Commons License. The Above Network, LLC has the authority to decide to display your postings or not, and modify your posts to remove offensive material, modify your post title to accurately reflect content, remove vulgar comments, remove insults or delete any other content deemed inappropriate, at our discretion.

Next, we seek to preserve the context of all posts, which is why our creative commons deed requests that any use of a post points back to the entire thread, along with giving the author full credit. As I'm sure you know, one post out of context from a big thread can be misleading as the topic almost always evolves and the post may no longer be an accurate reflection of the opinions of those involved.

In the case of the image, with so many other O'Hare images cropping up, we want to ensure that some mechanism was in place that signified the origin of the image... a member of ATS. The image, in context with the thread and the detailed analysis and resulting split decision on fraud-or-not is an important piece of the puzzle. I'm sure you've seen "UFO photos" that have circulated far and wide with such frequency that the origins are now fuzzy, or completely unknown.

I'm sure you're not going to be satisfied with these two points, as you've likely made up your own mind and believe monetary considerations drive our every decision.

Sorry, I know this was a while ago, the bold emphasis above is mine:

TheSkepticOverlord:

At the time that ATS Product Branded the image, there were NO OTHER O'HARE IMAGES associated with that story on ATS or elsewhere. A few other images did "crop up" AFTER the Product Banded Image was in circulation but not During or Before its arrival.

The 00000000 image was posted on 23-1-2007 at 01:29 PM (post id: 2898150):
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... pid2898150

the SECOND O'Hare image was posted two days later on 25-1-2007:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread264473/pg1

Care to rethink your reasoning for Product Branding that image when you did (within four hours of it being posted, I do believe) and also explain why No Other Images were Product Branded that day? (to, um, preserve the "origin" of those images as well)

Thanks
twj