The Greatest Fraud.

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The Greatest Fraud.

Postby mojo » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:23 pm

The Judeo - Christian Religion IS a conspiracy of the highest order imho.
Its aim, power over and control of the masses which it has achieved for the past 2000 years.

Consider this scenario, many thousands of years ago, lets pluck a number out of thin air, say between 14000bp and 10000bp, the last ice age was finishing.
Man has started moving from a nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle and begun farming and domestication of animals, settling into small groups and building permanent structures, homes, granaries and monoliths.They had come down from the mountains these people after the last glacial melt because their normal food sources had moved to the now verdant plains and marshes.
These people may have been the ancestors of the Ubaidian's or perhaps tribes from the Caucasus region, maybe even from near Mt Ararat.
They discovered that they no longer needed to follow the herds for food, the land was now lush and green and the herds didnt need to migrate as far. They also discovered that the animals ate certain plants, plants that they were able to grow by collecting the pollen and seeds. They captured some animals and fed them from the grains they grew. They were also able to eat the grains and fruits and berry's that now grew in abundance around their settlements.

A few generations passed and one of the elders of these people remembered the tales of the hard times in the mountains that had been passed down by word of mouth, the lack of food, the cold, on a clear day you could still see the mountains that were their former home in the distance, majestically rising above the plains, the sun rising above them in the morning caused them to shimmer and glow.

Surely the mountain was where the gods lived now and they had shown their children a way to a better life than before. To a paradise were everything they needed was supplied.
The elder told his people that they must give thanks to the Gods in the mountains for all that they had been given and so they began building monuments to the Gods. Is it any wonder that many of these early monuments resembled the mountains from whence they'd come.

And in a few thousand years to come these monuments would be as great an achievement as any we have ever made, the Pyramids.

And so the greatest of their Gods were the Gods that lived in the mountains because that was where the sun was born each day rising between the mountains peaks, but now they noticed that other Gods helped them or hurt them in their daily existence. They saw the plants grow at certain times of the year when the sun was at a certain point in the sky. They saw that animals gave birth at certain times. Surely the God that gave birth to the animals and plants that kept them alive was a Mother Goddess.

Soon they had gods and demons for all that happened around them, a fire raged across the plains and destroyed everything in its path, this must have been caused by a very angry God, why is this God angry they thought, what is it that causes us to anger it they thought, maybe the God is hungry, so they started sacrificing an animal to the fire god to appease his hunger. Perhaps, they thought, we need to make sacrifices for all the gods to keep them happy, and so they did. They noticed when something died it dissolved back into the Earth and so they thought there must be a world beneath their feet where the dead went. The Underworld.

Many thousands of years passed and the people prospered, their population grew and their technology advanced, each new thing they discovered was because the Gods were pleased with them.
Soon they had built cities and temples to the gods, the people were very busy, tending the land, fishing and building that they didn't have time anymore to devote to their Gods so they placed the power of keeping the Gods appeased in the hands of their elders.
For many years life was good and the people believed it was because the elders had kept the Gods appeased, the elders now called themselves priests and priestesses.

Now the priests had become accustomed to being venerated by the people, they didnt need to work the fields or tend the animals or carry water from the wells, this was all done for them so that they could commune with the gods.

Suddenly anytime that their role was questioned they became fearful that their life of ease and luxury would be taken from them.
So now they instilled fear in the people anytime something bad happened, the Gods have told us they are angry because you have not given enough gold or food to the temple or shown us enough respect.

Fast forward another thousand years or so and now the elite, the priests control everything but to appease the people, Kings and Queens are given reign but those that dare to question the priests don't last long.
Now writing has been discovered and the priests have scribes write down all the knowledge of the Gods, the story of creation and the birth of man. These story's are already thousands of years old and have always been passed down by word of mouth, changing slightly over time but the basic premise is still the same.

The Gods came from the mountains before but now they came from "above" in the sky where the sun is born. There are not as many Gods either anymore, many of the older gods have been forgotten and the other gods have taken on those responsibilities.
Now when a king or queen or high priest dies they are buried in mountains (ziggurats and pyramids) so that they can ascend to live with the gods instead of having to descend into the Underworld.

These story's and myth's are passed on from one culture to the next as trade expands across the land and peoples of different cultures begin to mix with each other. Some assimilate these gods because those other people are much stronger and more powerful therefore their gods must also be stronger and more powerful.
Sumer, Akkad, Babylonia and Egypt rise and fall. Their Gods are all related to the first gods from that first tribe that came down from the mountains. But now the priests are battling for power as wars ravage the lands, the power base's continually shift and change and the priests realise that the people are growing wary of their faith in the gods. There are too many Gods for the people to worship and it weakens their power.

They decide that their must only be one God for the people to worship, an all powerful god who is battling the powers of darkness, the people are taken with this new god because they can see his fight of good over evil each day and their lives are hard and the promise of an afterlife fills them with hope.
These priests hide in the shadows and pull the strings, a prophet is needed to incite the people to rise up against the invaders so that their power is not taken away.
A son of God is needed to perform miracles to entrench the peoples faith in the new god, there is a story they remember from long ago from the Egyptians of just such a man and so they relate this story once again and of his virgin mother, also the story of a great flood which is also from long ago, from Sumer and Babylonia, and many other story's as well.

And so the birth of the greatest fraud in mankinds history is born.



Then again this might all just be a story of a vivid imagination? Is it any more harder to believe this story than the story that is preached from pulpits around the world each day?


Related links.

Epic of Atrahasis

Tablet III of the Atrahasis Epic contains the flood story. This is the part that was adapted in the Epic of Gilgamesh, tablet XI. Tablet III of Atrahasis tells how the god Enki warns the hero Atrahasis ("Extremely Wise") of Shuruppak, speaking through a reed wall (suggestive of an oracle) to dismantle his house (perhaps to provide a construction site) and build a boat to escape the flood planned by the god Enlil to destroy mankind. The boat is to have a roof "like Apsu" (a fresh water marsh next to the temple of Enki), upper and lower decks, and to be sealed with bitumen. Atrahasis boards the boat with his family and animals and seals the door. The storm and flood begin.


The 18th century BCE Akkadian Atra-Hasis epic, named after its human hero, contains both a creation myth and a flood account, and is one of three surviving Babylonian flood stories. The oldest known copy of the epic of Atrahasis can be dated by colophon (scribal identification) to the reign of Hammurabi's great-grandson, Ammi-Saduqa (1646–1626 BCE), but various Old Babylonian fragments exist; it continued to be copied into the first millennium. The Atrahasis story also exists in a later fragmentary Assyrian version, the first one having been rediscovered in the library of Ashurbanipal, but because of the fragmentary condition of the tablets and ambiguous words, translations had been uncertain.


Ziusudra

Flood myths with many similarities to the Sumerian story appear widely in subsequent Ancient Near Eastern mythologies: including the Atrahasis myth, the Utnapishtim episode in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the biblical Noah story.
Deities (or a deity) create the animals and human beings, but people anger the god(s), so they decide to wipe out the world with a flood. A divine being warns one pious person of the impending flood and tells him to build a very large boat, and with it he preserves the animals and mankind from extinction. In the end the god(s) reward him for his actions.


Noahs Ark

The majority of modern Biblical scholars accept the thesis that the Biblical flood story is linked to a cycle of Assyro-Babylonian mythology with which it shares many features. The Mesopotamian flood-myth had a very long currency—the last known retelling dates from the 3rd century BC. A substantial number of the original Sumerian, Akkadian and Assyrian texts, written in cuneiform, have been recovered by archaeologists, but the task of recovering more tablets continues, as does the translation of extant tablets


Garden of Eden

The origin of the term "Eden", which in Hebrew means "delight", may lie with the Akkadian word edinu, which itself derives from the Sumerian term E.DIN. The Sumerian term means steppe, plain, desert or wilderness, so the connection between the words may be coincidental. This word is known to have been used by the Sumerians to refer to the arid lands west of the Euphrates.



Tree of Knowledge

Similar trees appear in other religions. In the closest, most relevant comparison, the iconic image of the tree guarded by the Serpent appears on Sumerian seals;



Sumerian Mythology

Many stories in Sumerian religion appear similar to stories in other Middle-Eastern religions. For example, the Biblical account of the creation of man as well as Noah's flood resemble the Sumerian tales very closely, though the Sumerian myths were written many centuries earlier than the Tanakh. Gods and Goddesses from Sumer have distinctly similar representations in the religions of the Akkadians, Caananites, and others. A number of stories and deities have Greek parallels as well; for example, it has been argued by some that Inanna's descent into the underworld strikingly recalls (and predates) the story of Persephone.


Deluge Mythology

Was Tutankhamen really Jesus?

Sumerian and biblical similarity’s

www.usbible.com/Creation

The word "Adam," as the proper name for the first man can be misleading. It comes from ha-adam in Hebrew, which translates to "the man"—Hebrew has no capital letters. The word adam is extracted from adamah, meaning country, earth, ground, husband, earth, or land. This suggests the context in Genesis 3:19, when God says "you are dust, and to dust you shall return." The name represents the material from which he was made. He wasn't an actual person.
Likewise, "Eve" is translated from the Hebrew chavvaòh, for lifegiver, as in "the mother of all living." Its root, Chaya, means "serpent" in Aramaic. Eve and serpent are taken to be synonymous.
The word, Eden, has been traced to the Sumerian language, meaning fertile land. To the Hebrews who later settled in the region, the word eden came to mean "delight" or "enjoyment." In a sense, it is a garden of delight.
In sum, the words Adam and Eve describe nobody in particular, and Eden describes no place in particular. It belongs with all the pagan mythologies of its type.


www.domainofman.com

www.sron.nl

Angels

The religion of the ancient Sumerians has left its mark on the entire middle east. Not only are its temples and ziggurats scattered about the region, but the literature, cosmogony and rituals influenced their neighbors to such an extent that we can see echoes of Sumer in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition today.


I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, i have posted it on other sites, i believe it is a truth that needs to be shared.

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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby Chorlton » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:22 pm

Bravo =D>
Pretty much along the same line of thought as mine.

I live near one of those worship points, Stonehenge, and you realy wanna hear the twaddle that is spouted about that place. They found a pile of stone chipping this week and cameto the conclusion, because of those chippings that Stonehenge must have been a place of healing!!!! Fer keerists sake its stone chippings, dont they think the big stones were dressed?.
Personally I think it was a bunch of Monty Pythonesqe stoneage men.
"Oi...lets build some enormous pile of stones so morons in the future wont know what it is and start making up stories."
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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby ryguy » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:50 pm

That's cool, but could you explain something to me?

Take this for example:

Flood myths with many similarities to the Sumerian story appear widely in subsequent Ancient Near Eastern mythologies: including the Atrahasis myth, the Utnapishtim episode in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the biblical Noah story.
Deities (or a deity) create the animals and human beings, but people anger the god(s), so they decide to wipe out the world with a flood. A divine being warns one pious person of the impending flood and tells him to build a very large boat, and with it he preserves the animals and mankind from extinction. In the end the god(s) reward him for his actions.


Now, if there weren't additional stories which supported the biblical tale, then the atheists would remark, "aha! See...there is not a single story throughout all of history, and even ancient history, that mentions a single itty bitty thing about a flood...therefore the story was clearly made up."

But now, as you point out, there are other cultures who had ancient stories/myths that tell the same tale - and now atheists are saying, "ahh...see...there are ancient stories identical to the biblical story, so clearly the biblical story is made up."

Okaaaaay. You know, in some academic circles, they tend to call multiple similar/identical accounts a form of corroboration. Just something to consider.

Also - this thread probably belongs in the "religion" forum. But I'll leave that up to AD to make the call.

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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby mojo » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:13 pm

ryguy wrote:Now, if there weren't additional stories which supported the biblical tale, then the atheists would remark, "aha! See...there is not a single story throughout all of history, and even ancient history, that mentions a single itty bitty thing about a flood...therefore the story was clearly made up."

But now, as you point out, there are other cultures who had ancient stories/myths that tell the same tale - and now atheists are saying, "ahh...see...there are ancient stories identical to the biblical story, so clearly the biblical story is made up."

Okaaaaay. You know, in some academic circles, they tend to call multiple similar/identical accounts a form of corroboration. Just something to consider.

Also - this thread probably belongs in the "religion" forum. But I'll leave that up to AD to make the call.

-Ry


I've never subscribed to the theory that the bible stories were made up, they are merely explanations for mostly natural occurances.
They just didn't appear to be normal or natural to our ancestors.

If this were to happen today, http://www.nationalgeographic.com/black ... frame.html we would know why and how it happened. When it happened to our ancestors they were unable to understand why and how, and so to make sense of what occured they gave it supernatural status.

Imho the deluge stories from all around the world do have a common connection, they are all the result of the last great glacial melt.
At that time the majority of the world's populations lived close to either coastal regions or large waterways ie rivers and lakes.
Sea and water levels rising only a few inches a year is enough to cause major devastation to such small communities.

Btw, it's not just atheists that see these connections, many biblical and religious scholars accept them also. And i don't regard myself as a militant atheist either, this post is merely my take on an age old mystery that imo has never been explained rationally but rather has been used by an elite branch of religious entities to further their own selfish agenda's.

so in answer to your question, yes you are correct, the deluge stories do corroborate a great flood, an entirely natural occurance. ;)
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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby Zep Tepi » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:19 pm

ryguy wrote:That's cool, but could you explain something to me?

...

But now, as you point out, there are other cultures who had ancient stories/myths that tell the same tale - and now atheists are saying, "ahh...see...there are ancient stories identical to the biblical story, so clearly the biblical story is made up."
...


I think the point is that those other cultures pre-date the judeo-christian flood stories by quite some margin. The fact that there are other christian traditions that clearly have their roots in other cultures/religions -the Christmas celebration being one of them- is highly indicitive of a copying of these traditions in order to appeal-to/appease those people who were uncertain of following this latest, "new" religion nearly a couple of thousand years ago.

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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:39 am

Zep Tepi wrote:I think the point is that those other cultures pre-date the judeo-christian flood stories by quite some margin. The fact that there are other christian traditions that clearly have their roots in other cultures/religions -the Christmas celebration being one of them- is highly indicitive of a copying of these traditions in order to appeal-to/appease those people who were uncertain of following this latest, "new" religion nearly a couple of thousand years ago.



Steve, you have just made the exact same point I had made to Ry in our discussion of the Christian belief system with respect to the virgin birth. Except you have stated it much more clearly than I did in my normally roundabout and/or wordy way. Well done! We are told Christ was born of a virgin. Good story. But we should be suspicious about whether he really was born of a virgin (i.e. suspicious of such a wild claim) especially because there were mystical traditions from cultures prior to Christianity that had the same story. The standard of evidence necessary to support the claim of Christ's virgin birth is necessarily higher than if this myth did not exist prior to Christ.

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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby Access Denied » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:31 am

mojo wrote:The Judeo - Christian Religion IS a conspiracy of the highest order imho.
Its aim, power over and control of the masses which it has achieved for the past 2000 years.

Well, I’m not sure it started out (was intended to be used) that way (?) but I definitely believe that’s what it became… the good news though is I believe it’s lost it’s “strangle hold” over society as more and more (perhaps even the majority) have come to realize the “nuts and bolts” of the belief is incompatible with reality. :)

[similar to the realization many long-time UFOlogists have come to lol]

That said, as I’ve said here many times, I believe religion “done right” does play an important role in society. Many folks need “something” to believe in… unfortunately that’s what makes them vulnerable.

You have to admit the scientific explanation for the “meaning” of life being natural selection (survival of the fittest) and “sh*t happens” can be a little depressing. :)

mojo wrote:I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, i have posted it on other sites, i believe it is a truth that needs to be shared.

You heretic you. :) Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed the read… very creative writing.

ryguy wrote:You know, in some academic circles, they tend to call multiple similar/identical accounts a form of corroboration. Just something to consider.

Well, for starters there seems to a slight problem with the timeline… something to do with 6,000 years? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism

ryguy wrote:Also - this thread probably belongs in the "religion" forum. But I'll leave that up to AD to make the call.

Well, I could argue it belongs in the “reality” forum because I believe the evidence would seem to favor the “myth” hypothesis but that would be somewhat of a subjective call on my part. :) Looking at it objectively the topic is about religion… albeit from a more scientific (sociological, historical) perspective wrt possible origins.

Thread moved…

[assuming the OP doesn’t mind]
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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby mojo » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:18 pm

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:
Zep Tepi wrote:I think the point is that those other cultures pre-date the judeo-christian flood stories by quite some margin. The fact that there are other christian traditions that clearly have their roots in other cultures/religions -the Christmas celebration being one of them- is highly indicitive of a copying of these traditions in order to appeal-to/appease those people who were uncertain of following this latest, "new" religion nearly a couple of thousand years ago.



Steve, you have just made the exact same point I had made to Ry in our discussion of the Christian belief system with respect to the virgin birth. Except you have stated it much more clearly than I did in my normally roundabout and/or wordy way. Well done! We are told Christ was born of a virgin. Good story. But we should be suspicious about whether he really was born of a virgin (i.e. suspicious of such a wild claim) especially because there were mystical traditions from cultures prior to Christianity that had the same story. The standard of evidence necessary to support the claim of Christ's virgin birth is necessarily higher than if this myth did not exist prior to Christ.

Ray


I have to agree, zep tepi nailed it with about 1000 less words than i took, lol.



Access Denied wrote:
mojo wrote:The Judeo - Christian Religion IS a conspiracy of the highest order imho.
Its aim, power over and control of the masses which it has achieved for the past 2000 years.

Well, I’m not sure it started out (was intended to be used) that way (?) but I definitely believe that’s what it became… the good news though is I believe it’s lost it’s “strangle hold” over society as more and more (perhaps even the majority) have come to realize the “nuts and bolts” of the belief is incompatible with reality. :)

[similar to the realization many long-time UFOlogists have come to lol]

That said, as I’ve said here many times, I believe religion “done right” does play an important role in society. Many folks need “something” to believe in… unfortunately that’s what makes them vulnerable.


thats true mate, its why i don't class myself as a militant atheist, religion does give my grandmother comfort since my grandfather passed away, and for that i'm thankful.



Access Denied wrote:
mojo wrote:I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, i have posted it on other sites, i believe it is a truth that needs to be shared.

You heretic you. :) Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed the read… very creative writing.


cheers AD. :)

Access Denied wrote:Thread moved…

[assuming the OP doesn’t mind]


haha, no worries, i'm still getting my head around your forum, you can put my waffle where ever you like. :D

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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby ryguy » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:10 am

I have to admit, as a fairly firm believer in biblical writings, I find all of your comments fascinating. I get a little nauseous when I read stuff from radically biased atheists - but I find all of the comments here to be open-ended enough so that conclusions aren't drawn in black/white. There are a lot of open minds here, that's cool to see.

AD - my comment about corroboration wasn't that the earlier writings corroborated later biblical texts, it's that the later biblical texts could simply have been another version of the earlier stories - but they are all stories that are talking about the same exact event(s) from different perspectives. Hence - they all corroborate that the events in the stories really did take place.

It's sort of like - let's say someone who witnessed 9/11 wrote a book about it in 2002. Then twenty years later, another witness writes a book about it in 2022. You can bet that their perspectives would generate very different stories, but the theme and the general events (just like the stories about a major flood) would match.

Of course - the next step for the non-believer is to simply claim that the later stories were "copied" from the earlier stories...so no one can really win the argument since there's not enough evidence to make such a conclusion either way.

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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby Chorlton » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:32 am

ryguy wrote:
It's sort of like - let's say someone who witnessed 9/11 wrote a book about it in 2002. Then twenty years later, another witness writes a book about it in 2022. You can bet that their perspectives would generate very different stories, but the theme and the general events (just like the stories about a major flood) would match.
-Ry


But what if the first was written from the perspective of one of the 11/9 conspiracy theorists? Wouldnt the end result be totally different?. It then gets rewritten from a slightly different perspective, then another then another untill we have somethng unrelated to what actually did happen?
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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby AussieMike » Fri May 28, 2010 8:42 am

i can recommend the christ conspiray, i have a copy on my library shelf

http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm

The Egyptian sun god Horus, who predated the Christ character by thousands of years, shares the following in common with Jesus:

Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph"). Seb is also known as "Geb": "As Horus the Elder he...was believed to be the son of Geb and Nut." Lewis Spence, Ancient Egyptian Myths and Legends, 84.
He was of royal descent.
At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
Horus walked on water.
His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was killed, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.
He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
He came to fulfill the Law.
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."
Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."
Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of the pharaoh Amenhetep (Horus), with Thoth announcing to the queen that she will conceive; with the god Amun impregnating the queen; and with the infant being attended by three "kings" bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis--the original "Madonna and Child."


Just as the tale of Noah is just a copy of the epic of gilgamesh

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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby jbondo » Fri May 28, 2010 2:44 pm

I'm not going to get into an argument over this. I knew I'd have to address this sooner or later here so I'll do it right here and now. After this I'm going to steer clear of these debates. That's not to say that I wouldn't be glad to share my Faith with anyone but as far as arguing my position, it's not productive.

This only addresses Christianity because that's what I am and that's what I know.

You can decide to follow Jesus Christ or not. It's your choice. Why Atheists feel they need to constantly attack Christianity is beyond me. I have a couple of theories but it doesn't really matter. I do not feel that this country is better off without God and in fact I am of the opinion that the further we push Christianity away the more open we are for extreme religions (not going to name one) to creep in.

I am really amazed at those who are not even reading the Bible on a regular basis seem to be Bible Scholars. I have been a Christian for 30 years and I'm no Bible expert. I am still learning every day what the text is conveying because about 30% of scripture is not literal. Also knowing the language translations help a great deal.

I have met many Christians and just like anything else there are good and bad. Unfortunately there are those that do wrong in the name of Christianity which seems to be what the media reports on and where most non-Christians gain their perspective of what it's all about. Real; down to earth Christians are the most caring, supportive and friendly people I've ever met. They spend a great deal of time helping to feed and educate third world countries as well as right here in the US. Christians are typically one of the first groups on site at major disasters to clean up, help those in need and just plain be a shoulder to cry on. No, I am not meaning this to say Christians are better than anyone as God loves everyone, not just Christians. A true Christian always gives the glory to God anyway. If Christians were perfect then they wouldn't need Jesus to stand in the gap for them. Personally, there are plenty of things I'm working on to improve myself and I suspect it will be a life long process.

Finally, I am not a part of "Religion" per say. My focus is on Faith:

Religion is something you do
Faith is something you feel
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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby AussieMike » Sat May 29, 2010 4:45 am

Its your soul, but you may want to consider this

Judaism's view of Jesus is a very peripheral one. Jews have traditionally seen Jesus as one of a number of false messiahs who have appeared throughout history. Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging of all false messiahs.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_opinions_on_Jesus

God made it very clear you shall worship none but him, Christianity is therefore idolatry, the worship of a graven image.

Recent dead sea scroll finding also indicate that the sermon on the mount "story" actually predates christ as a historical figure.

In short the evidence suggests that like many of the bibles tales, its a cut and paste job from an earlier myth.

At no stage does god rescind his original edict that he is the single sole focus for worship.

According to judaism the source of the bible itself worshiping jesus is a sin...........

Jews and christians dont both eat at the pearly buffet, according to christians jews go to hell because they dont accept jesus as saviour, according to jews christians go to hell for the sin of idolatry.....

They cant both be right, they can of course both be wrong
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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby gunter » Sun May 30, 2010 4:42 am

I think you need look no further than the Talmud to find the source of Jesus' preachings. The guy was simply a Pharisaical Jew with a low tolerance for b.s.. No-one paid any attention to him then nor do they now. But I must say that the Beatitudes contain a pretty fair blueprint for an ethical life- were anyone willing to read them with a clear eye, of course.
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Re: The Greatest Fraud.

Postby mojo » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:09 am

jbondo wrote:You can decide to follow Jesus Christ or not. It's your choice. Why Atheists feel they need to constantly attack Christianity is beyond me.


I certainly don't feel like i am attacking christians. Am i attempting to expose the flaws in some of the claims that 'christianity' makes, yes.
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