Now That’s Weird (Hauntings)

A spiritual perspective on phenomenon

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Now That’s Weird (Hauntings)

Postby nomadrush » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:48 pm

[Mod Edit: The following discussion was moved here from this thread]


That's the whole point about my show it gives all guests the chance to tell their stories and let the audience decide what they think.

As for Ann Andrews, something really IS going on up there. Investigator Paola Harris ran out of their house in the middle of the night and checked into a nearby hotel (Paola told me that herself!!) She said that some very strange stuff happens around Jason and his family. I am going up there to stay for a couple of nights next month, so will report back thereafter!

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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby ryguy » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:40 pm

Yeah, keep us updated on that Ross, I'm very interested to hear what kind of phenomenon you experience personally! Are you planning on bringing any equipment?

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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby Chorlton » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:21 am

nomadrush wrote:That's the whole point about my show it gives all guests the chance to tell their stories and let the audience decide what they think.


And let them continue propogating their lies, scams and hoaxes? No thats not the way to do things. By doing that you are giving these scamsters and hoaxers the fuel they need, publicity to garner more interest in their scam books and CD's. They need to be totally blanked, ridiculed and exposed for the hoaxers they are.

As for Ann Andrews, something really IS going on up there. Investigator Paola Harris ran out of their house in the middle of the night and checked into a nearby hotel (Paola told me that herself!!) She said that some very strange stuff happens around Jason and his family. I am going up there to stay for a couple of nights next month, so will report back thereafter!
Ross


Yeah sure. Paola Harris, another person with a BIG financial interest. A person who's own website promotes little, other than her books KACHIIING, and her public appearances KACHIIIING, She is already biased, promoting the ridiculous (exopolitics). What utter and absolute rot. How on earth can someone like that, someone who is already a 'believer' be objective about anything?

In the 70's I owned a 15th century Farmhouse, half timbered, Low Oak beams. A woman had murdered her husband there in the 1800's. The noise that house made of a night time was quite astounding. I got it quite cheap because locals all said it was haunted and even some neighbours wouldnt go into the house when I had a party and stayed in the garden. But it was just the house, expansion and contraction. First thing I did (after I put a studio in the outbuildings) was put in a solid concrete floor all through the house and that stopped 80% of the noise as it helped stabilise the whole place. But you would still get weird sounds during the night, one in particular was like someone dropping a huge cannonball on the floor, a loud muffled THUD. So I mic'ed the place up and left tapes running. The noise turned out to be the wall behind the Raeburn, expansion and contraction of a huge section of wall behind it.
All quite simple when you look hard with an objective mind. However, if you are already a 'believer' you will see and hear what you want to hear.

And Ann Andrews? Come on. Someone who had a 'difficult' or 'different' child and then shes sees a little pot of gold there KACHIIIING. Lets write a book about something no one can disprove, KACHIIING.
WOW " He has an Earthly body, but he has a walk-in Cosmic soul. He is a healer, a sage, a psychic, and a clairvoyant." Maybe he needs to talk to James Randi eh?
Him, James Casbolt, so called 'star seed children' ?? what utter bollocks.

OF COURSE 'strange things' happen around Jason, its in his financial interest for there being things happening.
So Paola Harris goes 'Running from a house' WOW im impressed (NOT) why didnt she investigate it? couldnt be because there was probably a rational explanation for it which, if written down wouldnt bring in much money could it?
Here's a statement of some of the things that happened to him:
"It's always the light that comes first,' he confessed to his mother; Ann. 'Then I see the tall one rise up at the foot of the bed. 'Suddenly there's lots of little ones everywhere. They're fuzzy and indistinct, and they move very fast. I can't move or speak, but I'm awake and I can see and hear and feel. I want to scream and run, but the sound doesn't come out and my body doesn't move."
Absolutley classic Sleep paralysis, see here : http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html
A little boy with a big imagination, who, finding he gets attention when he tells his stories, continues telling them and embellishing them.

And lets not forget you eh Ross? you have a financial interest in all of this dont you? so how could you be classed as an unbiased observer of any kind?. You help and aid an abett the ridiculous. How many sceptics have you interviewed, compared to believers? whats the comparitive percentage?, and whilst were on the subject, Interviewing itself is an art, what training did you have?.
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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby ryguy » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:13 pm

Chorlton wrote:And let them continue propogating their lies, scams and hoaxes? No thats not the way to do things. By doing that you are giving these scamsters and hoaxers the fuel they need, publicity to garner more interest in their scam books and CD's. They need to be totally blanked, ridiculed and exposed for the hoaxers they are.


This assumes the hard questions aren't being asked. I admit I'm not a listener of Ross' show yet, although his appearance here has piqued my interest. If his technique isn't much better than the Project Camelot style of accepting pre-existing biases of the witnesses I'd probably lose interest quickly. But there's a lot to be said for interviewing - it's a critical first step for any investigation, for one thing. Most ghost-hunters out there start out by investigating the witnesses at the location or home - but you're right Chorleton, an unbiased and careful collection / examination of evidence is far more important.

Yeah sure. Paola Harris, another person with a BIG financial interest. A person who's own website promotes little, other than her books KACHIIING, and her public appearances KACHIIIING, She is already biased, promoting the ridiculous (exopolitics). What utter and absolute rot. How on earth can someone like that, someone who is already a 'believer' be objective about anything?


If she is acting as a reporter of those phenomenon, that's not necessarily true. I don't know what she does for full-time work, but if writing is her full-time job, I suppose she need to do something for a living. But you are right in that if she promotes a one-sided conclusion regarding the phenomenon, then Houston...we have a problem.

....So I mic'ed the place up and left tapes running. The noise turned out to be the wall behind the Raeburn, expansion and contraction of a huge section of wall behind it.

All quite simple when you look hard with an objective mind. However, if you are already a 'believer' you will see and hear what you want to hear.


Excellent story...nice work Chorleton. I love hearing accounts like that. I can't tell you how many believer-accounts I read every month, ultimately concluding that phenomenon is spiritual in nature without thoroughly exploring all possibilities as you did here. Kudos.

On the other hand - there are also a great deal of recorded phenomenon out there that isn't so easily explainable. In fact, I'm hoping one day Steve tells his own story. He's in the process of writing something up regarding a recent event that happened to him (yes, our very own highly-skeptical Steve). That's something to really look forward to because you can believe Steve will not accept something as "unexplainable," regardless. But I am convinced that people do experience some things that can't be explained very easily...of course I'm having deja vu...I think you and I had this discussion before..lol

Here's a statement of some of the things that happened to him:
"It's always the light that comes first,' he confessed to his mother; Ann. 'Then I see the tall one rise up at the foot of the bed. 'Suddenly there's lots of little ones everywhere. They're fuzzy and indistinct, and they move very fast. I can't move or speak, but I'm awake and I can see and hear and feel. I want to scream and run, but the sound doesn't come out and my body doesn't move."
Absolutley classic Sleep paralysis, see here : http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html
A little boy with a big imagination, who, finding he gets attention when he tells his stories, continues telling them and embellishing them.


I haven't read his accounts, but based on your snippet I'd have to agree with you 100% on mental/biological sleep issues...

And lets not forget you eh Ross? you have a financial interest in all of this dont you? so how could you be classed as an unbiased observer of any kind?. You help and aid an abett the ridiculous. How many sceptics have you interviewed, compared to believers? whats the comparitive percentage?, and whilst were on the subject, Interviewing itself is an art, what training did you have?.


Again - I don't know Ross, but I assume he's another interested observer like the rest of us. I've interviewed folks who believe in demons, believe in cat spirits, and next month will be a "real life psychic." If you ask the right questions - you get good answers that draw out the person's particular biases (if there are any) - and that helps the public draw their own conclusions. However, if you don't ask the right questions, and instead ask leading questions, then obviously the whole interview will be biased. I really need to check out Ross' work, because right now any opinion I state regarding his work would be premature and unfair.

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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby torbjon » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:39 pm

Chorlton:

Some weird stuff is attention / money seeking hoaxers, to be sure... And no doubts the bulk of "weirdness" that goes on out there can be "explained" away "rationally"...

But not all things can be easily "explained", AND, even if there is a "simple" and "rational" explanation for certain bits of "weirdness" how do we reach the "logical" conclusion that the "simple" answer is the "correct" answer?

Your example of the "haunted" house is an excellent example and begs a few questions... you state that a murder happened in the 1800's inside the house, strange noises then "haunted" the house, some repairs eliminated most of the noises and further investigation tracked the remaining sounds to the furnace...

okay, sounds "logical", yes? Questions (which you may not have the answers to) When was the furnace installed in the house? Were there any "unexplained" noises Prior to the murder or Prior to the furnace being installed in the house? And, (this is the kicker you are going to Hate) Just because a "logical" and "rational" explanation has been proposed and various steps / procedures were taken that seem to confirm that theory, the question still remains: "was some as yet undiscovered / unmeasured non mundane force acting upon the discovered, measured, and very mundane items / objects in a 'paranormal' way?"

You mentioned a couple of times that the sounds happened at Night... query: Weren't there some cold Days from time to time when the furnace was in operation and if so, did the sounds happen then as well or was it only at night?

All I'm getting at here is that it's pretty easy to come up with a "rational" explanation that fits the "facts" for just about any situation, but do we have all of the facts and even if we do can we still conclude that the "rational" explanation is the "correct" one?

I've had a few "haunting" type experiences which Can't be "rationally" explained away, even though we Tried...

One of the more dramatic ones was a completely refurbished building that used to be an "old folks home" and was converted into four apartment units. So, the building wasn't 'new', but it had been gutted and rebuilt, so it was 'almost new'.

The flat had wall to wall carpet that was a little too plush for the doors, meaning the carpet rubbed up against the bottom of the doors and the doors didn't Swing, you HAD to push or pull them open. The flat had a large walk in closet / larder in the dining room. This closet had the hot water heater, the fuse box, and outstanding storage space, and, like all the rest of the flat, wall to wall carpet, meaning That door didn't swing either, you Had to pull it open and push it closed. On top of that the closet only had the one door and No windows or any type of "air flow" whatsoever: It was a DEAD room. I tried Many Many Times to SLAM that door, just swing that sucker closed with ALL of my strength, but the Physics of the equation simply would Not allow that to happen, the drag of the carpet plus the air compressing into the closet as the door neared closing would Stop the door from ever actually Closing no matter how hard I tried to slam it shut...

And yet, on more than one occasion, in front of witnesses, that closet door would go from a closed and latched state to an unlatched and Open state (over half way open on one occasion) and on many occasions (three right before my eyes) that closet door would SLAM shut with a loud BANG!

The flat was Not "settling", there was No Wind (not that anything other than a hurricane could slam that door shut) there was No underground or elevated (or even normal) trains within Miles, No heavy traffic nearby, no major air traffic overhead... and all attempts to recreate the event via mundane "rational" means Failed Miserably...

Something as yet undiscovered / unexplained was creating those events...

It used to be that a "box that talks by itself" was "magic"... now it's a "radio"... Perhaps someday there will be "radio" type explanations for some of these events... currently some of these still seem to fall into the "magic" catagory...

Sorry, nothing to do with ATS, I know, but the conversation is here so there's my garbage *shrugs*

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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby ryguy » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:06 am

Hey Torb - I just wanted to say, thanks for sharing those experiences. I enjoyed reading those a lot. I know it's not always easy for people to come forward with those - so I have a lot of respect for you for sharing them.

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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby Chorlton » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:54 am

OK Torb
You ask
"was some as yet undiscovered / unmeasured non mundane force acting upon the discovered, measured, and very mundane items / objects in a 'paranormal' way?"

I look at things another way.

"was some as yet undiscovered / unmeasured totally mundane force acting upon the discovered, measured, and very mundane items / objects in a quite normal way?"
When something happens, I dont immediately reach for my garlic and cross and suspect some evil force or alien presence. I look for the totally obvious. There are still many many things in this world we dont understand, and to begin calling these things 'supernatural' is to me total folly. Deep Earth movements, electricity, movements of electricity through damp air, wood air pressure etc. I just simply DO NOT believe in any supernatural powers, benign or evil, there is simply no proof to substantiate any claim of such. YES there are unexplainable things that happen, but as you stated maybe in the future we will come to realise the simplicity of what has been happening and find those action were totally natural.

Your flat, you say there was wal to wall carpet, a heater, electricity point. Did you consider mass static electricity charges moving the pile on the carpet. You say it happened when you were there. When I was a kid we had a carpet that when you rubbed your feet on the floor then touched another person you would get a spark jump between fingers, static electricity.

As for my house? It wasnt a 'furnace' it was a Raeburn, a combined, solid fuel cooker/heater. I never met any previous inhabitants but the murder was documented in the local library. All information I got was from neighbours and was hearsay and the Raeburn was an early model, which we replaced with a more modern one. But the plaster work directly behind the Raeburn was ancient Lath and plaster whereas the plaster surrounding it was more modern.
The sound usually started at night due to the cooling effect of the Raeburn when it wasnt stoked up fullyand it was this that obviousy had an effect on the surrounding Platerwork and associated pipework.
But you buy an old house. I mean an OLD house 400 years+ old (dont forget the base and some walls of my house were already 200 years old when America was discovered) that benn empty for some time then suddenly slap a heating system in it and warm it up. The sounds you get for many many years are and can be weird.
Even relatively modern houses built from say 1900 onwards can create some weird and wonderfull sounds etc when newer more modern heating and insuation systems are installed. Brickwork/concrete/ metal thats been saturated damp for many many years suddenly being warmed up. Damp proof injections into footings/foundations, all of these things then being related to electricity wiring being installed in a house along with its associated electrical field. In my opinion its THOSE things that creat most of what we see as modern phenomena and has not the slightest thing to do with any 'supernatural, dolly day dream twaddle'. And i have to restate there is simply no evidence for any supernatural phenomena anywhere in this world. Merely phenomena we dont understand as yet.

And as a last point. I dont believe in life after death either. I DO believe knowledge is passed to children through sperm/ova though.

HMM maybe these threeads should be moved elsewhere as its distracting from the original topic. My fault. Slappy on wrist
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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby You Can Call Me Ray » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:35 pm

At the risk of sounding like a snooty, know-it-all engineer, let me add my support to Chorlton's approach, for it is well founded in the less-considered aspects of science. I say less-considered and I mean less-considered by the vast majority of the population.

Thermally-induced expansion and contraction of materials is one of those things that the average person really doesn't think much about, and I would even go so far as to say that the same average person doesn't even know much about. But it is well-known that the most common material used for major home construction (wood) is also the one that has the largest reactions to thermal effects, in many ways. Many understand that as temperatures change from day to night, and thermal radiation on a home changes, that the wood will contract in direct proportion to the surrounding change in temperatures. The larger the temperature swing, the greater the expansion or contraction. But what most either do not know, or do not consider, is the effect that continual thermal cycling has on wood construction domiciles. Thermal cycling weakens the organic bonds in the wood , which are now dead and thus do not have the ability to repair such damage. The cumulative effects of thermal cycling is most commonly referred to as a house "settling". It begins once the wood members of a structure are fixed into place, and continues, essentially, forever. The older the wood structure, the greater the amount of internal damage it has suffered due to thermal cycling, not to mention other deleterious effects.

Hence, here we have a 100% scientific, well-founded, and highly verified (by data) explanation for the "old haunted house syndrome." While a house may have existed over many generations of humans living in it, and there may even have been a murder of a human in such an old house, to jump to the conclusion that perceived "spooky" effects are in any way related to the humans who have lived and/or died in the house is a bit silly, presumptive, and just plain bad scientific form. By far the effects of age and cumulative thermal cycling have had a FAR larger impact than the spirits of any humans who may have lived, died, or been murdered in that house.

And the proof is in the ABSENCE of such reports in non-wooden structures. How often do you hear of "hauntings" or strange sounds/occurrences within metal structures? I am just finishing a full steel building which lives just above 7000 feet above mean sea level in southwest Colorado...an area with LARGE temperatures swings throughout the year. This structure should stand for several hundreds of years. I will wager my mortal soul that you will NEVER hear of "hauntings" or other such strange occurrences in this steel building. Because the steel does not respond to the thermal cycling effects anywhere near the way wood does.

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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby ryguy » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:03 am

You Can Call Me Ray wrote:And the proof is in the ABSENCE of such reports in non-wooden structures. How often do you hear of "hauntings" or strange sounds/occurrences within metal structures?


I don't mean to throw a wrench into the Chorlton hypothesis...but I've read of "hauntings" in stone mansions, steel framed warehouses, graveyards and cemeteries, secluded dirt roads, train tracks, forests, etc.... I'm not sure the "banging/creaking wood" hypothesis would hold water under most circumstances where pounding and/or banging is heard...

How pathetic is this...I'm an admin and I add to the "off-topic" problem. Sorry guys...the topic caught my interest. I'm more of a researcher/writer than an administrator... lol

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Re: Now this is interesting

Postby Chorlton » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:26 am

ryguy wrote:
You Can Call Me Ray wrote:And the proof is in the ABSENCE of such reports in non-wooden structures. How often do you hear of "hauntings" or strange sounds/occurrences within metal structures?

I don't mean to throw a wrench into the Chorlton hypothesis...but I've read of "hauntings" in stone mansions, steel framed warehouses, graveyards and cemeteries, secluded dirt roads, train tracks, forests, etc.... I'm not sure the "banging/creaking wood" hypothesis would hold water under most circumstances where pounding and/or banging is heard...
How pathetic is this...I'm an admin and I add to the "off-topic" problem. Sorry guys...the topic caught my interest. I'm more of a researcher/writer than an administrator... lol
-Ry

OK Moomin said he was happy with a bit of off topic rambling (though it will get lost and probably other people not interested in the original subjet might miss it)
Long Post here :shock: Probable high boredom factor! Im getting into MY element here and I have an hour or two before the Forumla 1 starts ................COME ON HAMILTON !!!! YEAHHHH Ferrari ? Rubbish.

RY, my (totally unproven) hypothesis is that many things/phenomena are actually created by the earth, localised magnetism caused by underlying rocks. You have heard of Granite being radioactive, emitting Radon Gas?
INFO SNIPPET:
Radon (more properly known as radon-222) comes from uranium which occurs naturally in many rocks and soils. Since granite contains relatively high levels of uranium many people think that it is only granite areas of the UK, such as the South West of England, that have high radon levels. This is untrue and, as shown on the map above, many parts of the country have high radon levels.

Most radon gas breathed in is immediately exhaled and presents little radiological hazard. However, the decay products of radon (radon daughters) behave more like solid materials than a gas and are themselves radioactive.

These solid decay products attach to atmospheric dust and water droplets which can then be breathed in and become lodged in the lungs and airways. Some decay products emit particularly hazardous radiation called alpha particles which cause significant damage to the sensitive cells in the lung
.


One of the ideas I had years ago was that this Radon gas has a more active cause in some mysterious noises, and even ghost sightings in houses.

You mention Hauntings in stone mansions Ry. Some of these mansions contained large amounts of granite, some were completely constructed of granite. Some were constructed from stone containg large amounts of quartz, quartzite and minute quartz crystals.What happens when Quartz is compressed over a long period of time? Quartz has some rather remarkeable properties and I suspect that could be responsible for noises, even electrical discharges.
Many old houses in parts of the world were constructed of Limestone:
From sources:
Limestone often contains variable amounts of silica in the form of chert or flint, as well as varying amounts of clay, silt and sand as disseminations, nodules, or layers within the rock. The primary source of the calcite in limestone is most commonly marine organisms.
See the relationships we have here too? Silica's, sand, decayed organic organisms. You start playing around with Limestone and you begin to get many side products. OK most of those by products are from man made forced reactions, but given time and with Limestone in close proximity to the by products of attached fittings, (steel, lead, wood silver, gold) by products like Phenol (amongst others) can be produced.
The Calcite itself exhibits curious behaviour:
Calcite can be either dissolved by groundwater or precipitated by groundwater, depending on several factors including the water temperature, pH, and dissolved ion concentrations. Calcite exhibits an unusual characteristic called retrograde solubility in which it becomes less soluble in water as the temperature increases.

Move to Graveyards? what do we have, GRANITE or other Stone gravestones and surrounds, sometimes filled with glass chippings or other stone chippings. We have a coffin with a decaying body in it. That body itself giving off gas as it decays. Then the wood coffin decays and collapses, then the gravestone will sink, sometimes suddenly, into the earth.

Railway lines? what do we have?? Steel on wood on stone chippings. Steel wheels on steel rails? Electricity generation (however small)Wood sleepers? (see my bit on wood and wood decay below). Heavy trains oving over wood sleeper which in turn push down onto the bedding material. Compression of various materials? see where Im going?

Now some other interesting and I consider relevant things. In a lot of those old buildings they used a lot of cast iron tie bars and when, over the years those tiebars slowly rusted, they created massive forces which pushed the stones, bricks etc. I have actually seen a house where it was cracked very badly all the way round the entire building. On investigation it was found that cast iron tie bars had been used horizontally on exactly the same layer of bricks, those tiebars had slowly oxidised and eventually exerted sufficient force to crack the entire house in two, horizontally . Now take that scenario, and reduce it down. It doesnt actually crack the bricks, but from time to time there would be movement and noise (bangs) as associated brickwork moved.
One other factor of old buildings, many if not most of them had incredibly shallow footings. The footings of my old house were simply a layer of stones, with large sections of Oak laid horizontally on top of those stones. Wood, even oak will decay over the years causing noises bangs etc as it settles. I once spoke to one of the maintenace staff at Longleat House who told me that in places the footings are little more than 1-2 ft below ground. In that case there will be movement over the years, resulting in some effects.

Many old and even new houses were constructed using substantial amounts of wood. Before anti-fungicidal agents were used, trees were simply cut down dressed and used in houses. Now much wood had bacteriological and fungal contamination which was later alleviated by dipping and compression infusions but older wood wasnt. Phenol was found in some old woods produced as a by product of fungal and bacteriological decay, HMMM Phenol? ever heard of strange smells being associated with apparitions/ghosts?
Those fungal and bacteriological infections could be massively involved in noises and indeed Ghost sightings when fungal spores would be released into the air, add those releases with a little phenol gas...................
I could go on and on. Old houses having gas pipes to supply lighting........, gas piping being lead.........gas moving along lead piping.......... generating static charges.
Its all too easy for someone to state "Eh its supernatural laddie" thats the easy way out. Investigators should be looking at how building are constructed before making unbelieveable leaps of logic.

Ry you stated:
"but I've read of "hauntings" in stone mansions, steel framed warehouses, graveyards and cemeteries, secluded dirt roads, train tracks, forests, etc.... I'm not sure the "banging/creaking wood" hypothesis would hold water under most circumstances where pounding and/or banging is heard..."

Ry, examining what was written by me and what is known scientifucally it will be easy to see there are reactions between many materials.
Steel framed warehouses. Large empty and semi empty spaces. Steel embedded in Lime based concrete? Chemical reactions over long periods of time, decay by-products? not to mention the steel sunk into the concrete and substrate below the building rusting decaying and the resultant noises as that expands and blows the concrete.
Ive always been fascinated by the possible actions on the air and surrounding attachments of large areas of concrete in confined spaces. Especially concrete laid in sections, horizontally or vertically, at differing times, of differing temperatures and of differing mixes along with the reactions of the substrate/earth and underlying footings, support.

Supernatural Investigators? I doubt if any of them have any qualifications in Metalurgy,Minerology, microbiology etc etc. To make quantum leaps from something that is seen, like an apparition or ghost (if indeed it was even seen in the first place which I do indeed doubt) and state it is supernatural, without first doing the maths, without doing the metalurgy and minerology and gaseous examination of the co relationships between the material construction of the house, is, in my opinion total folly.
Despite all that Ive said, there are still things that are unexplained, but that doesnt mean you have to pigeonhole them as supernatural, merely unexplained phenomena that is waiting to be explained.

At a tangent, it is to me also total folly to start spouting totally unfounded b.s. about someone being a "star child", and being of 'Extraterrestrial origin' (Ann Andrews words, not mine) Jason Andrews says he "came to our planet with two purposes", one of which was to "experience what it was like to be human". So his mother doesnt remember being pregnant with him for 9 months then giving birth to him?. (OOOOOH I'll bet they have an answer for that too? Was there a large star in the East perchance ?? :P Then again, having visited parts of Kent and London I would like to suggest there are an awfull lot of kids there like Jason who would benefit from 'experiencing what it was like to be human' as they demonstrate none of those graces or language similarities.

When even some of the most brilliant brain surgeons and researchers admit they know only a small part of what the brain actually does. I mean, could some Autistic savants claim the same things as Andrews does?. Its oh so easy to make claims when so many people dont ask for evidence and oh so easy to pump out books for the morons who will believe anything. I call it fraud and those who help promote that rubbish are guilty of aiding and abetting that fraud.

.
Last edited by Chorlton on Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Now That’s Weird (Hauntings)

Postby ryguy » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:20 pm

Chorlton - as I was reading your post above, I started to get heart palpitations from the sheer excitement of reading someone else putting a hypothesis out there that so closely mirrors my own suspicions about haunted locations! That was one of the best posts I've read regarding haunted locations in a very, very long time.

I agree with you completely regarding both earth/geomagnetic properties at these locations, as well as the geological mineral qualities that could also be affecting the materials on those sites. Another thing to consider too, not against your second clarification above, but actually in support of it, is this - those actions created by minerals and/or electro-magnetic fields that may be generated could also have an effect on the chemical/biological processes and senses of people at those locations. It is a scientific fact that you can make people see and hear odd things if you bombard the brain with a particular EM frequency. Imagine it as a "resonant" frequency that causes auditory, visual, and sometimes even olfactory hallucinations. Combine that with the possibility that those natural forces could be also having an effect on the "real world" objects at the locations - and you've the the makings of a very, very freaky experience.

Your hypothesis above could be tested scientifically through taking appropriate measurements at these locations, of course. Soil samples as well as environmental readings. But you're right, most "investigators" don't have that level of expertise. And most qualified scientists won't touch these investigations with a 10 foot pole.

As far as the testimony from various witnesses - we can't really blame people for misinterpreting what their senses are telling them. I mean, a lot of people out there see a ball rolling across the floor and immediately assume paranormal activity. Another person will pull out a level and check the floor. You know what I mean? Just because they've drawn their own conclusions about what they've experienced doesn't mean that the experience didn't take place. Allowing people to tell the story is important - but the person reporting on their story (the interviewer) should provide alternate explanations for the experience, not embracing any misinterpretations or delusions that the interviewee may have about those experiences.

Again - excellent post.

-Ry
---
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Re: Now That’s Weird (Hauntings)

Postby Chorlton » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:52 am

Ryguy said:
"Another thing to consider too, not against your second clarification above, but actually in support of it, is this - those actions created by minerals and/or electro-magnetic fields that may be generated could also have an effect on the chemical/biological processes and senses of people at those locations."

Curious? thats something I never even considered? I couldnt see the wood for the trees, so to speak
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Re: Now That’s Weird (Hauntings)

Postby torbjon » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:59 am

Chorlton:

I agree that much falls into the "unexplained" catagory... but to me, "unexplained" leaves some things too far open... where as paraNORMAL and superNATURAL makes the thing a Normal, Natural event, which will (someday) have a Normal and Natural (and logical) "answer"... Does that make sense? So if I should use the paranormal / supernatural words I don't mean spooks and ghosts, (well maybe, time will tell) but rather just mundane phenomena we don't fully understand the mechanisms of yet.

Non of the reasons listed above as solutions for generic spooky stuff can solve my riddle of the slamming door.

Repeating Event
Multiple Witnesses
Event Could Not Be Reproduced by any means currently availible.
The house had been recently gutted and rebuilt.

Thing is, try as we might, we could NOT make the door "slam" like the "spooky events" slam and the "laws of physics" tells us why:

The closet was a "dead room", the only opening in the room was the doorway. As the door swings closed it pushes air in front of it into the closet... the air has no place to go so it compresses, and the air pressure in the closet goes up a bit... as the door nears the closing point the air pressure in the closet is Greater than the air pressure outside the closet so you start to get Blow Back, which pushes against the door and causes it to de-accelerate even faster, until finally the door would get right up to the point of just touching the door jam (but not actually closed) and not have the energy to continue... Air pressure plus rubbing carpet made Slamming Impossible. No matter how hard you tried, you just Couldn't SLAM the thing, the best you could get was an almost closed Whhooop (airy sound)

The "spooky door events" acted as if there were an open window in the closet to the outside world and no rubbing carpet... like a door that swung freely with no obstructions, not even air... a nice, crisp SLAM!

Again, it wasn't just a Sound, there were Eye Witnesses to the door either opening from a closed state or slamming shut from an open state (never both at the same time ie. it never opened then slammed in front of witnesses)

====

Something else that needs to be equally considered:

Whereas some of the items above (minerals, crystals, etc.) do indeed create electromagnetic fields which could impact human observers, humans themselves generate electromagnetic fields which could impact / interact with the fields listed above.

In times of Great Distress the electromagnetic fields generated by humans can be quite powerful and focused.

A suitable material (such as quartz, limestone, granite, etc.) or even a not so "suitable" material (like wood or fabric) MIGHT be able to record that powerful and focused electromagnetic field generated by the greatly distressed human in much the same way that magnetic tape can be used to record data (eight track, anyone?)

Crazy Event happens and is recorded by surrounding elements.

Time passes.

The elements are stressed in such a way as to 'play back' or 'release' the recorded energy.

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