ryguy wrote:Regardless, those other programs may need to be accepted in light of the other programs that are part of the stimulus package that will bring relief
That is
exactly what politicians want We The People to swallow, and this is also the
precise symptom of "politics as usual" that gets us into such debts. Moreover, this is the
exact reason why EVERY President asks for the line item veto to tame the pork that flows from Congress. I am disappointed that you accept this, Ryan. I truly expected more from you, as a person who claims to have conservative views. Accepting it emboldens and empowers "politicians as usual" to continue to spend us (and YOUR CHILDREN, Ryan!) into debt we will never get out of.
If he wants to spend a few million on the idiotic topic of global warming - so be it.
And I am disappointed, but not surprised, that you are minimizing this agenda of the Goreites, which is now extremely hard to deny. Do you forget that I predicted this (and much worse which is yet to come) well before the election? I read the tea leaves, and I was right. I do not like being right, and I will not like it when this agenda marches on to further institutionalize what you admit to be "idiotic". This thing you minimize, Ryan, is Phase 1. He is listening to Gore, has appointed one of Gore's minions to a non-confirmable position of power, and that person (Browner) has been proven to be active in at least one MAJOR socialist organization. What more red flags do you need to face this dangerous fact, Ryan? I am one who regularly brushes away conspiracy theories that have no extant evidence of conspiratorial actions. But this AGW thing is not anything like that... it has ALL the earmarks of a defacto conspiracy of people who wish to push socialist agendas with BAD SCIENCE. I cannot express my rage and my caution for how dangerous this path is!!! Many see it...but those who are so enamored of Obama's rockstarness, and so hopeful that he will deliver change that is needed, that they purposefully minimizing a clear and present danger.
At least the bulk of investments will be going toward clean and renewable energy technology instead of keeping us addicted to oil (how's that oil stock doing Ray?)
You make this as a joke, I realize. But it is based upon a fallacy. One of the biggest "big oil" stocks that I own in my energy portfolio is BP. They also happen to be the undisputed leader in solar energy manufacturing. No one can beat them for how many solar PV systems are being sold! The solar PV system on my roof (bought & installed in 2003) is from BP Solar. So yes, this stock is doing quite well.
"The largest weatherization program in history, making 2.5 million homes and three-fourths of federal buildings more energy efficient." (Hence REDUCING OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL) ...you probably should sell those stocks Ray.

Not a chance, pal. See above. Now, I want the DETAILS of how we are going to make those 2.5 million homes more energy efficient via weatherization. Because the details matter! Example: I received both a CA state and Federal one-time rebate for my solar PV. That is not a socialist money-redistribution scam, because it requires me to make the decision to do it myself before I get the benefit. What I will be willing to bet you beers on is that this is NOT how these 2.5 million homes will be weatherized!!! Dems don't do rebates and/or tax incentives for people to take smart actions. They prefer "giving out money" which is the form of wealth-redistribution that smacks of socialism. You watch... it will happen...and I will point it out when it does.
"In the Republicans' weekly address, House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio said his party wants to work with Obama and congressional Democrats but that Republicans prefer 'fast-acting tax relief, not slow-moving government spending programs.'
The Republicans' competing plans have included cutting income tax rates and providing a tax credit for home purchases. Boehner said for now, the Democrats' plan "is chock-full of government programs and projects, most of which won't provide immediate relief to our ailing economy."
I'll tell you what - most of the items listed above will provide immediate relief
Complete and utter b.s., Ryan. When have you EVER seen government programs act quickly? You were just as wrong about coalescing all school funding under the Feds. You completely ignore just how ineffective the federal government is at getting big projects done on time, much less rapidly!!! Just look how inefficient NASA is compared to the commercial SpaceEx in building rockets. And that is just one example. If you want more examples, take a look at the fat and expensive and slow bureaucracies in Europe.
Those thousands who are finding themselves unemployed NEED immediate help with health care costs, high home heating/energy costs, and providing financial relief through the Child Credit puts money in the pockets of those who need it most - families who are devoting their energy and resources to raising the next generation of Americans.
Idealism. Just wait until you see how "immediate" it is. In virtually every aspect where you could compare government response times with a commercial business, the commercial business will respond faster and with less waste. I can cite numerous studies with data that have pretty much made that conclusive.
Republicans are going to have to stop moaning and complaining because right now, gridlock and doing nothing is not an option.
And you continue to make it Republican vs. Democrat. My gawd, we have been over this so many times it makes my head hurts. Ryan! THEY ARE THE SAME! And gridlock is NOT isolated to one party against another... and let me prove that by showing you what is shaping up within the DEM party when it comes to the "Great Global Warming Push" that is currently being put together:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/scien ... ml?_r=3&hpGeography Is Dividing Democrats Over Energy
John M. BroderAlready, the Congressional Democrats Mr. Obama will need to carry out his mandate are feuding with one another.
By coincidence or design, most of the policy makers on Capitol Hill and in the administration charged with shaping legislation to address global warming come from California or the East Coast, regions that lead the country in environmental regulation and the push for renewable energy sources.
That is a problem, says a group of Democratic lawmakers from the Midwest and Plains States, which are heavily dependent on coal and manufacturing. The lawmakers have banded together to fight legislation they think might further damage their economies.
And well they should. Ryan, I would really really
REALLY like you to open your eyes that we are well beyond the whole "Dem-Repub" thing. The problem is "politics as usual". You think you are seeing change, and I am telling you it is the same-old same old, but now the DEMs will have their turn to f*ck things up even worse and have their little infighting and bickering within their party....and the result will be bigger debts and further devaluation of the dollar.
While there were several issues that torbjon and I did not agree upon, I think we both saw eye-to-eye that the Dem-Repub thang is a show...a distraction to keep the status quo. It "works" for both parties because each has the other to blame. Meanwhile, Rome burns. Please... if the tone of this, my post, angers you, at LEAST look at what Torb was saying. We were saying the same thing. I am sick and effing tired of BOTH of these parties. They BOTH have failed and I am afraid I am reading the tea leaves of failure again.... NOT just because of Obama and his admin... but because the Parties are bigger than even the person in the Oval Office. I think you know that, but I do not think you are willding to admit it.
I really wish I was wrong...but the evidence is embedded in our history of the last 30 years (if not more).
Ray